City Council - Government Operations Committee Hearing on Docket #1432

City Council - Government Operations Committee Hearing on Docket #1432

Meeting Date: October 28, 2025, at 02:00 PM Governing Body: Boston City Council - Government Operations Committee Type of Meeting: Public Hearing Attendees: Councilor Gabriela Coletta Zapata (Chair), Councilor Henry Santana, Council President Ruthzee Louijeune, Councilor Edward Flynn, Councilor Erin Murphy, Councilor Enrique Pepén, Councilor John Fitzgerald, Councilor Liz Breadon, Councilor Julia Mejia, Councilor Benjamin Weber.

Executive Summary

The Government Operations Committee convened a public hearing on Docket #1432, an ordinance concerning the safety and efficacy of commercial autonomous vehicle (AV) operations in Boston. The ordinance, sponsored by Councilors Henry Santana, Erin Murphy, and Edward Flynn, aims to study the real-world impacts of AVs on workers, emergency first responders, and residents before commercial deployment. Key discussions revolved around potential job displacement for rideshare and delivery drivers, public safety concerns, accessibility for individuals with disabilities, and the economic impact on local businesses. The hearing featured testimony from union representatives, rideshare drivers, and advocates for and against AV deployment, highlighting diverse perspectives on innovation, worker protection, and equitable access to transportation.

I. Introduction and Opening Remarks

• Call to Order: Councilor Gabriela Coletta Zapata, District 1 City Councilor and Chair of the Boston City Council Committee on Government Operations, called the hearing to order at 2:09 PM.
• Recording and Broadcast: The hearing was recorded, livestreamed at boston.gov/city-council-tv, and broadcast on Xfinity channel 8, RCN channel 82, and Fios channel 964.
• Public Comment Submission: Written comments could be sent to ccc.go@boston.gov.
• Public Testimony Guidelines: Individuals could testify in person or virtually, with a two-minute limit per speaker.
• Docket #1432 Overview: The hearing focused on Docket #1432, an ordinance regarding the safety and efficacy of commercial autonomous vehicle operations relative to workers, emergency first responders, and residents in the City of Boston.
  • Sponsors: Councilors Henry Santana, Erin Murphy, and Edward Flynn.
  • Referral Date: August 6, 2025.
• Attending Councilors: Councilor Henry Santana, Council President Ruthzee Louijeune, Councilor Edward Flynn, Councilor Erin Murphy, Councilor Enrique Pepén, Councilor John Fitzgerald, Councilor Liz Breadon, Councilor Julia Mejia, and Vice Chair Benjamin Weber.

II. Lead and Co-Sponsor Opening Remarks

• Councilor Henry Santana:

  • Expressed support for the ordinance to study AV impacts before commercial operation.
  • Emphasized that the ordinance is not against innovation but aims to ensure innovation serves the city without risking workers and families.
  • Highlighted potential job displacement for rideshare, taxi, and other transportation workers.
  • Called for a public study on AV impacts on jobs, local businesses, traffic, and public safety.
  • Proposed an advisory board comprising labor leaders, small business owners, city officials, and transportation experts.
  • Stated, "Boston refuses to be a testing ground for unproven technology still learning how to navigate our streets, Our winters and our community safely."
  • Urged the Council to support the ordinance to prioritize workers, safety, and local businesses.

• Councilor Erin Murphy:

  • Thanked attendees, especially app drivers and unions (Teamsters Local 25, 32BJ, App Drivers Union, Machinists Union, IBEW 2222).
  • Stated, "Boston workers, families and first responders deserve a seat at the table before driverless technology changes our streets and our livelihoods."
  • Framed the ordinance as a balance between innovation and ensuring jobs, safety, and accountability.
  • Cited reports from other cities of collisions, confusion for first responders, and job losses.
  • Emphasized the need to understand impacts on rideshare/delivery drivers, small businesses, and emergency responders.
  • Highlighted the ordinance's framework for accountability, transparency, and worker protection, including an independent study and an advisory board.
  • Stated, "Most importantly, it requires that no autonomous vehicle operates in Boston without a human safety operator behind the wheel. because public safety is not negotiable."

• Councilor Edward Flynn:

  • Thanked Chair Coletta Zapata, Councilor Santana, and Councilor Murphy for their work.
  • Stated the hearing's purpose: "making sure innovation doesn't negatively impact workers, steamroll workers, jeopardize public safety, undermine our local economy."
  • Acknowledged organized labor (Community Labor United, Greater Boston Labor Council), advocates for persons with disabilities, and the Chinese Progressive Association.
  • Cited concerns from rideshare drivers about AVs threatening their livelihoods.
  • Referenced National Highway Safety Transportation Administration reports: Waymo involved in 200 crashes (2021-2024), with 31 resulting in injuries.
  • Noted Waymo's recall of 1,200 vehicles in May.
  • Expressed concern about AVs in Boston's "narrow streets, one-ways, alleys, and they lack a traditional grid."

III. Administration Letter

• Letter from Claire Kelly, Director of Intergovernmental Relations:
  • Acknowledged the invitation to testify on Docket #1432.
  • Referred to previous administration testimony on Docket #1141 (July 24, 2025).
  • Chief of Streets Yasha Franklin-Hodge: Raised concerns about Waymo's ability to navigate first responders, construction zones, wintery conditions, and serve all Bostonians, especially those with disabilities.
  • Senior Labor Advisor Lou Mandarini: Flagged concerns about Waymo undercutting rideshare drivers and the collective bargaining rights won in the 2024 ballot initiative.
  • Chief Research and Data Officer Shinpei Sei: Emphasized the need to evaluate Waymo's impact in Boston based on data from other cities.

IV. Driver Testimony Panel

• Mike Ortiz (Teamster Waste Driver, Republic Services):

  • Shared experience of a successful strike for wage increases.
  • Expressed fear of driverless vehicles displacing jobs in sanitation, freight, and other sectors.
  • Stated, "This isn't about innovation. This is about who gets to have to put food on their tables and roof over their heads."
  • Highlighted the impact of job loss on healthcare, pensions, mortgages, and local economies.
  • Urged support for the ordinance to protect drivers.

• Victoria Acosta (App Drivers Union):

  • Spoke in Spanish and English, emphasizing the threat to workers' stability, families, and communities.
  • Stated, "When drivers lose income, our whole local economy suffers. Gas stations, car washes, late night restaurants, coffee shops, and corner stores."
  • Highlighted the human connection provided by drivers, noting, "A robot car does not buy coffee. It doesn't tip. It doesn't support small businesses."
  • Expressed personal worry about losing income if Waymo comes to Boston.
  • Emphasized solidarity among drivers, truckers, firefighters, and bus drivers.

• Abigail O'Brien (Paramedic, Armstrong Ambulance, Teamsters Local 25):

  • Shared experience in emergency medical services, where seconds can mean life or death.
  • Stated, "It's common sense, but autonomous vehicles don't have common sense."
  • Cited instances in other cities where AVs caused accidents and delayed first responders.
  • Expressed concern about AVs handling winter conditions, noting a Waymo product lead's "ha ha, good question" response to winter operations.
  • Warned that AVs blocking emergency vehicles could "delay our lifesaving measures and kill people."
  • Advocated for human safety operators.

• Alfred Potter (Rideshare Driver, App Drivers Union):

  • Expressed pride in Boston for standing up for immigrant communities.
  • Stated, "The tech CEOs who bankrolled the second term are the same ones who want to come to our city to test imperfect technology. make their money and run away with the bag. Not here."
  • Highlighted the human care and connection that robots cannot replicate, sharing an anecdote about helping a 90-year-old man.
  • Stated, "Robotaxis don't pay taxes. They don't raise families here. They don't make moral judgments when someone's in trouble."
  • Urged the Council to "slow this down" and question who truly benefits.

• Jack Mayer (UPS Package Car Driver, Teamsters):

  • Expressed concern about safety and livelihood if Waymo operates in Boston.
  • Stated, "No robot taxi can match the split-second decisions a human being makes."
  • Shared an anecdote about finding and assisting an unconscious man, highlighting human judgment.
  • Emphasized the sense of responsibility and community that robots lack.
  • Warned that AVs could eventually displace delivery drivers, impacting "thousands of delivery drivers in the Boston area."

• Juan Felipe (App Drivers Union):

  • Stated, "Waymo and all the driverless cars are a real hazard to our streets, to our jobs, and to our communities."
  • Cited San Francisco's experience: Waymo "grabbed nearly 30% of the drive share market in just 20 months."
  • Mentioned a Waymo being pulled over for an illegal turn with "no driver to ticket."
  • Emphasized Boston's opportunity to be proactive.
  • Stated, "driverless cars like Waymo are different. They don't create opportunities for our neighbors. They erase it."
  • Highlighted the ecosystem of small businesses dependent on drivers.

V. Union Representative Panel

• Autumn Weintraub (SEIU 32BJ, App Drivers Union):

  • Represented thousands of rideshare drivers.
  • Stated, "We're not against innovation by any means, but we need innovation and technology that doesn't create a dystopian society that leaves nothing."
  • Supported the ordinance as a "rational first step" for a public study and advisory board.
  • Raised questions about job displacement, impact on small businesses (car washes, restaurants, gas stations, repair shops), and the cost of new social services for the unemployed.
  • Emphasized "appropriate guardrails" to ensure tech advancement "works for everyone and leaves no one behind."

• Steven South (Secretary-Treasurer, Teamsters Local 25):

  • Represented over 13,000 workers in the Boston area.
  • Stated, "Our way of life is under attack by Waymo and other big tech companies."
  • Accused AV companies of "steamrolling into cities" to eliminate driving jobs for profit.
  • Challenged Waymo's safety claims, citing 1,500 vehicle recalls and federal investigation.
  • Highlighted hundreds of documented crashes in Phoenix, Houston, and San Francisco.
  • Emphasized Boston's "over 400 years old" roads and "harsher, more extreme weather conditions."
  • Stated, "Driverless cars and trucks are nowhere close to having the same capabilities as a trained human operator, and they probably never will be."
  • Called for a clear message that "Massachusetts is not a playground for Silicon Valley."

• Jack Kenslaw (UFCW 1445):

  • Expressed concerns about AVs taking money and safety.
  • Described AV companies operating at a loss to "drive all the other competition out" and then "hike the prices up."
  • Challenged AV safety statistics, arguing they compare AVs to overall traffic data, not professional drivers.
  • Cited experiences with new technology in retail leading to "assault on our members" and "precarious situations."
  • Expressed fear of being "stuck in a driverless car on the highway that all of a sudden malfunctions and they're locked inside."
  • Advocated for a slow, deliberate approach to study impacts.

• Abdiaziz Samantero (App Drivers Union):

  • Stated, "If you bring thousands of these cars here, you are not just putting drivers out of work, you are hurting the car washes, the coffee shops, the small businesses that depend on us."
  • Emphasized the need for human drivers who "knows the shortcuts, the worries. The weather."
  • Cited San Francisco's experience with Waymo grabbing 30% of the market and a Waymo being pulled over with "no driver to ticket."
  • Shared personal experience of adapting to rideshare apps but seeing how "tech companies move and how the people doing the work can get left behind."
  • Stated, "Waymo is eyeing Boston as their next market. They want to come here. to refine their technology and expand their profit with no regard for who they leave behind."

• Mike Vardabedian (Assistant Directing Business Representative, Machinists Union District 15, App Drivers Union):

  • Urged the Council to "hit the brakes on driverless cars until we fully understand what's at stake."
  • Stated, "Working people are often left to clean up the mess and deal with the consequences."
  • Framed the issue as a "question of power," asserting, "Out-of-state tech companies don't get to call shots in our city. This is a union town."
  • Highlighted the recent right to unionize for rideshare drivers and the threat AVs pose to this progress.
  • Cited Uber's CEO admitting robo-taxis "threaten to displace human drivers."
  • Supported the ordinance as a "common sense approach."

VI. Councilor Questions to Union Representatives

• Councilor Santana:

  • Asked about the impact of AVs on the bargaining power of newly unionized rideshare drivers.
  • Steven South: Confirmed AVs would "absolutely weaken bargaining power."
  • Jack Kenslaw: Explained the "classic model" of Silicon Valley companies operating at a loss to gain market share and then raising prices, impacting driver compensation.
  • Autumn Weintraub: Noted preliminary studies from other cities showing declining wages for remaining drivers.

• Councilor Murphy:

  • Asked about specific impacts of automation and reduced human oversight.
  • Steven South: Cited job losses in trash pickup and package sorting due to automation. Emphasized the "hundreds of thousands of jobs in Massachusetts" at risk and the "billions of dollars" workers contribute to the economy. Highlighted human interaction for vulnerable populations.
  • Mike Vardabedian: Stated AVs represent "elimination of an entire workforce," impacting 75,000 working families of app drivers alone. Raised safety concerns about road salt and icy conditions.
  • Autumn Weintraub: Reiterated preliminary studies showing declining wages and less work for drivers in AV-active cities.

• Councilor Flynn:

  • Asked about studies on AV impacts in other cities (safety, local economy, workers).
  • Autumn Weintraub: Confirmed preliminary studies show declining wages and less work for drivers.
  • Councilor Flynn: Emphasized the community role of drivers, citing an anecdote about a Teamster driver saving a life.

• Councilor Louijeune:

  • Asked about detriments in cities that didn't take a proactive approach to AVs.
  • Steven South: Highlighted the disproportionate wealth divide, stating AVs would make it "even further."
  • Mike Vardabedian: Cited "hundreds of examples of these vehicles getting into accidents across the country." Mentioned a Waymo demonstration canceled due to heat.
  • Councilor Louijeune: Noted Boston's old streets and private ways as obstacles.

• Councilor Weber:

  • Asked about data on professional drivers' safety compared to non-professional drivers.
  • Autumn Weintraub: Stated drivers are "incredibly careful" due to the risk of deactivation.
  • Mike Vardabedian: Questioned how AVs would handle passengers with disabilities, citing constant system breakdowns in warehouses and the lack of automated passenger airplanes.
  • Councilor Weber: Asked if an unfair labor practice complaint could be filed given the timing of AV introduction and recent unionization rights.
  • Steven South: Explained that the Massachusetts state law for rideshare unionization means the State Labor Board would be involved, not the NLRB.

VII. Public Testimony (First Round)

• Brianna January (Chamber of Progress):

  • Opposed Docket #1432, calling it an "unprecedented ban."
  • Advocated for AVs as a "lifesaving innovation" and the "safest vehicle-based mode of transportation."
  • Stated AVs offer "true independence" for the sight-impaired community.
  • Challenged claims of job loss, stating, "the number of people in San Francisco working for taxi and limousine service firms grew by 7%." Total pay rose by 14%.
  • Cited Massachusetts Department of Transportation data: 620,000 motor vehicle crashes in the last five years, 95,000 crashes this year alone.
  • Stated, "AVs don't drink, they don't text and drive, they don't doze off or lose their temper. They follow traffic rules."

• Carl Richardson (Guide Dog Users of MA, Bay State Council of the Blind, Boston Resident):

  • Opposed the ordinance as "too narrowly defined."
  • Cited CDC data: nearly 1 in 5 people have a disability (1.4 million in Massachusetts, 400,000 in Greater Boston, 135,000 in Boston).
  • Argued AVs could positively impact small businesses by increasing discretionary spending for people with disabilities.
  • Stated, "autonomous vehicles is not a dystopian future. It is my mobility, my freedom, my independence, and access to more."
  • Challenged councilors to experience blindness for an hour.

• Nora Nagel (Bay State Council of the Blind, Boston Resident):

  • Stated, "Autonomous vehicle regulation... needs to consider the needs of all of the citizens of Boston."
  • Shared personal experience as a legally blind guide dog user being "refused more often than not" by rideshare drivers due to her guide dog.
  • Cited Uber being sued by the Department of Justice over discrimination.
  • Stated AVs offer "increased independence, mobility, and flexibility."
  • Noted that 12% of Massachusetts residents are in unions and 12% are people with disabilities.
  • Advocated for an advisory board representative of the entire city.

• Rashad Sadevid (Roslindale Resident):

  • Shared experience as a legally blind individual with issues using Uber (dropped in wrong place, drivers not answering, language barriers).
  • Stated, "It's not Waymo. It's your company. Go after your company."
  • Expressed desire for independence, "I can't wait to get my own car again. or my robot to walk with me."

• Erin Buckley (Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist, Carroll Centre for the Blind):

  • Highlighted the challenges for people with vision impairment, including the inability to drive and dangers from bikes/scooters on sidewalks.
  • Cited issues with rideshare drivers illegally turning away guide dog users.
  • Stated, "Waymo riders enjoy added peace of mind knowing with certainty that they are entering the right car."
  • Advocated for AVs to improve access for people with disabilities.

• Paris Flynn (Program Manager, Best Buddies Massachusetts and Rhode Island):

  • Shared experience working with the disabled community in Boston.
  • Highlighted "innumerable challenges" with transportation as a barrier to employment, income, and social participation.
  • Stated, "Reliable transportation is a consistent, continued challenge and oftentimes full-out barrier for my participants to gain access to and retain employment."
  • Urged decision-makers to ensure the voices of the disabled community are heard.

• Dwayne Mitchell (ADU, Roslindale Resident):

  • 73-year-old Uber/Lyft driver, relies on income to stay in Boston.
  • Expressed fear of technology displacing his job.
  • Stated issues with disabled passengers are "not a driver issue. That's an Uber issue."
  • Supported the ordinance to study "social consequences of putting tens of thousands of people out of a job."

• Richard Berman (Ambassador, Best Buddies):

  • Expressed enthusiasm for Waymo, stating, "I kind of love Waymo because this place is where you're at. Wait, I think we can go where the ride can't go."
  • Cited issues with "the ride" (MBTA paratransit) being late or unreliable.
  • Highlighted the inability of current services to reach certain areas (Cape, Worcester, Rockford).
  • Stated AVs would be "a lot cheaper for people with disabilities."

• Alberto Montoya (Ambassador, Best Buddies, Boston Resident):

  • Advocated for "more accessible, affordable, and reliable transportation for People like me with disabilities."
  • Highlighted the stigma faced by people with disabilities.

• Steven Urarty (National Federation of the Blind in Massachusetts):

  • Advocated for AVs as "another component" or "another option" for transportation.
  • Cited the high unemployment rate for blind individuals (65% to 80%).
  • Stated AVs could "open up the opportunities of being able to get more employment."

VIII. Autonomous Vehicle Panel

• Matthew Walsh (Regional Head of State and Local Public Policy, Waymo):

  • Stated Waymo's mission: "to be the world's most trusted driver."
  • Operates fully autonomous ride-hailing in Phoenix, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Austin, and Atlanta.
  • Provides "hundreds of thousands of fully autonomous paid passenger trips every single week."
  • Expanding to Miami, Dallas, Denver, DC, Seattle, Nashville, London, and Tokyo.
  • Stated Waymo vehicles are involved in "five times fewer injury-causing collisions compared to humans."
  • Cited Bay Area economic impact: $40 million from tourism alone last year.
  • Highlighted benefits for individuals with epilepsy, blindness, and women's safety.
  • Expressed "significant concerns" with the proposed ordinance as an "unprecedented ban."
  • Challenged job loss claims: "In 2024, the number of people in San Francisco working for taxi and limousine service firms grew by 7%. Total pay in the industry rose by 14%."
  • Urged consideration of AV benefits before moving forward with the ordinance.

• Mary Kate DePamphilis (Program Director, MADD Massachusetts):

  • Mission: "make roadways safe for everyone" and "end impaired driving."
  • Supported Waymo's presence as "another important tool in the effort to eliminate impaired driving."
  • Cited statistics: one person killed in impaired driving crash every 37 minutes in the US; 120 people lose lives annually in Massachusetts; one in three traffic fatalities involve alcohol-impaired driving.
  • Stated, "Embracing autonomous vehicles could mean fewer families getting that heartbreaking call that a loved one was killed by an impaired driver."

• Greg Dalmy (President and CEO, Carroll Center for the Blind):

  • Mission: "empower people who are blind and visually impaired to live independent and fulfilled lives."
  • Urged support for Waymo and opposition to Ordinance 1432.
  • Framed the issue as "equal access," "dignity," and "independence."
  • Cited routine refusal of rides by human drivers for blind travelers with service animals.
  • Stated, "Autonomous vehicles don't discriminate. They don't see a guide dog, a cane, or a disability. They simply see a passenger who needs a ride."
  • Highlighted accessibility features: voice prompts, tactile controls, predictable pickup/drop-off.
  • Noted Waymo's partnerships with blind and disability organizations in Phoenix.
  • Stated, "Boston has long been a city of innovation and leadership... Embracing autonomous vehicles is an opportunity to lead again. This time in accessibility and equity."

IX. Councilor Questions to Autonomous Vehicle Panel

• Councilor Santana:

  • Challenged the notion that job losses are not occurring, citing Gridwise data showing hourly pay drops in AV-active markets.
  • Stated, "In San Francisco, Waymo grabbed nearly 30% of the ride share market in just 20 months."
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated he had not seen Gridwise figures, reiterated San Francisco's taxi/limousine industry growth (7% increase in workers, 14% increase in total pay). Argued Waymo generates economic impact through tourism.
  • Councilor Santana: Asked how drivers maintain flexibility if Waymo creates alternative employment.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated drivers in San Francisco and Phoenix "continue to drive" and get passengers.
  • Councilor Santana: Asked about Waymo's mission statement.
  • Matthew Walsh: "To be the world's most trusted driver."
  • Councilor Santana: Asked why Waymo has not engaged with local unions.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated it feels "premature" as no final determination has been made for Boston.
  • Councilor Santana: Argued testing has already begun, making conversations timely.

• Councilor Murphy:

  • Asked if Waymo commits to publicly releasing safety data and incident reports for Boston.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated data is available online and would discuss specific council interests.
  • Councilor Murphy: Asked about benchmarks for phasing out safety drivers.
  • Matthew Walsh: Described it as a "complicated process" involving miles collected and driving observations.
  • Councilor Murphy: Asked if Waymo uses data from past cities for Boston.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated performance data is specific to each market, but learnings are applied.
  • Councilor Murphy: Asked about conversations with labor unions in other cities.
  • Matthew Walsh: Cited a partnership with IBEW in San Francisco for EV charger installation.

• Councilor Flynn:

  • Asked which agency would regulate Waymo in Massachusetts.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated regulation is typically at the state level, and a bill is active in the legislature.
  • Councilor Flynn: Asked about Waymo's safety record in challenging cities and winter conditions.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated Waymo operates in "narrow streets and densely populated areas like San Francisco." Cited 96 million miles driven, reducing serious injury crashes by 91% and airbag deployment crashes by 79%.
  • Councilor Flynn: Asked if unions in other cities support Waymo despite job costs.
  • Matthew Walsh: Declined to speak for IBEW's position on job loss, reiterated the partnership was for EV charger installation.

• Councilor Pepén:

  • Asked about studies on AV impact on congestion in other cities.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated congestion is a concern, but Waymo's fleet operation allows for efficient deployment and real-time data analysis. No specific number of vehicles for Boston yet.
  • Councilor Pepén: Asked about AV readiness for Boston's winter conditions.
  • Matthew Walsh: Cited extensive R&D and testing in places like Buffalo and Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Stated Waymo is "more and more confident" in operating in winter weather.

• Councilor Breadon:

  • Asked how Waymo service functions (like Uber, depots, charging).
  • Matthew Walsh: Functions like a ride-hail service, uses depots for storage/charging/cleaning, and charging pit stops.
  • Councilor Breadon: Asked about the size of Phoenix compared to Boston and piloting process.
  • Matthew Walsh: Phoenix is larger by square mileage; started in Chandler, Arizona, then expanded to 320 square miles.
  • Councilor Breadon: Asked about cyber security strategies.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated main steering components are protected from remote access. In case of network disruption, vehicles can pull over to a "minimal risk condition."
  • Councilor Breadon: Asked about communication with first responders.
  • Matthew Walsh: Waymo has a first responder engagement team, QR codes on vehicles, and remote communication via audio system.

• Councilor Mejia:

  • Challenged the use of vulnerable populations to advocate for Waymo.
  • Councilor Mejia: Asked how Waymo's technology could improve experiences for disabled individuals without replacing the workforce.
  • Greg Dalmy: Stated Waymo offers "greater level of independence Through both technology advancements, with apps and so forth, that drivers today Don't offer in certain circumstances."
  • Councilor Mejia: Asked how many Waymo workers are unionized.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated he was "not aware of their classification."
  • Councilor Mejia: Asked if Waymo would commit to a 100% unionized workforce in Boston.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated he was "not in a position to make that commitment right now."
  • Councilor Mejia: Asked who is at fault in an accident involving a robot.
  • Matthew Walsh: Waymo carries its own insurance and is responsible for liability. Vehicles pull over immediately after a collision. Remote assistance logs in to assess.
  • Councilor Mejia: Asked about the number of vehicles deployed in other cities.
  • Matthew Walsh: "In the ballpark of hundreds of vehicles per each one of those markets."
  • Councilor Mejia: Asked about market share compared to Uber/Lyft.
  • Matthew Walsh: Did not have figures.
  • Councilor Mejia: Confirmed Waymo cars are fully electric.
  • Matthew Walsh: Stated for every 250,000 rides, 315 carbon dioxide emissions are removed.
  • Councilor Mejia: Asked about state vs. city regulations.
  • Matthew Walsh: In 25 states, regulation is exclusively at the state level to avoid a "patchwork of regulations."

X. Public Testimony (Second Round)

• Dr. Natalicia Tracy (Executive Director, Community Labor United):

  • Opposed driverless cars, citing "triple failure" for Boston:
    1. Good jobs: Displaces Uber, Lyft, taxi drivers, and threatens transportation workers.
    2. Environmental justice: Worsens traffic congestion and pollution.
    3. Equity: Diverts funds from public transit to AV infrastructure.
  • Urged adoption of the ordinance for an independent study.

• Karen Chen (Executive Director, Chinese Progressive Association):

  • Highlighted the historic Question 3 campaign for rideshare drivers' unionization rights.
  • Stated AVs threaten to "undercut all of that progress."
  • Emphasized that human drivers can assist elders or disabled individuals with groceries, unlike robots.
  • Raised concerns about environmental implications of data centers and privacy with 29 cameras in AVs.
  • Called for a "fair public process."

• Scott Page (Delegate, Boston Carmins Union, ATU Local 589):

  • Spoke on behalf of 7,000+ MBTA workers.
  • Supported the ordinance to study impacts and ensure workers have a seat at the table.
  • Stated, "Waymo doesn't solve our problems, it adds to them."
  • Advocated for investing in existing infrastructure and supporting workers.

• Arthur Gluffing (Teamster, Paratransit Driver, East Boston Neighborhood Health Center):

  • Transported elderly and disabled individuals for 30+ years.
  • Stated AVs are "dangerous" for vulnerable clients.
  • Emphasized the need for human care, CPR training, and judgment in emergencies.
  • Stated, "There is no algorithm that can replace what a trained, compassionate human being does behind the wheel."
  • Warned that AVs would eventually displace jobs like his.

• Ibrahim (Small Business Owner):

  • Stated his business relies on Uber and Lyft drivers.
  • Expressed worry that if drivers lose jobs, his business "could lose everything."
  • Supported the ordinance to understand the impact on small businesses and working families.
  • Urged against rushing technology "just because big companies from our out of state want it."

• Kristen Della Fano (Teamsters Local 25, Film Industry):

  • Shared personal story of career change from pizzeria owner to Teamster in the film industry.
  • Stated AVs would cause problems for the thriving film industry in Massachusetts.
  • Highlighted the need for human drivers for rapid timing, split-second decisions, and multitasking.
  • Warned that AI companies aim to displace "every Teamster, but every union member and show business."
  • Urged protection of public safety and film industry jobs.

• Martin Sweeney (Recording Secretary, IBEW Local 2222):

  • Represented over 1,000 high-tech and telecommunications workers.
  • Stated, "autonomous vehicles are bad for Boston and bad for workers."
  • Accused AV companies of "putting technology over people. Profits over safety and innovation over livelihoods."
  • Stated, "big tech doesn't care if workers lose their jobs."
  • Emphasized the need for human judgment in driving.
  • Stated, "That profit will be vacuum sucked right out of Massachusetts and Boston to Silicon Valley."
  • Argued corporations should be held accountable for not meeting needs of disabled riders.

• Tony Amaral (Teamster, Manfee Leasing):

  • Teamster for nearly 30 years, homeowner due to union benefits.
  • Stated AVs are "vastly inferior" to human drivers.
  • Highlighted the need for "split-second judgment" for tractor-trailer driving in the city.
  • Warned that after taxis, AVs would target "Freight, sanitation, buses, and eventually every vehicle."
  • Expressed worry for younger Teamsters.
  • Called for "a trained human operator in every vehicle, keep good union jobs in our communities, and keep our streets safe."

XI. Adjournment

• Councilor Gabriela Coletta Zapata thanked all participants and acknowledged the robust discussion.
• Stated, "I think there's opportunity for both sides to come together to figure out You know what works for each perspective although I do I do generally support the contents of this ordinance and just want to make sure that it's integrating all of the voices that we heard today appropriately."
• The hearing on Docket #1432 was adjourned.