Finance Committee

Okay, do you see Clerk, Fisher, Cassiol, and the attendees?

There we go. Hello, everyone. This is Delaney clerking tonight. Apologies for the Zoom issues on the clerk's office side.

Thank you, and good to see you, clerk. Okay. Good evening everyone! I'm Ben Wheeler. I use he, him pronouns. I'm Councilor-at-Large and Finance Committee Chair. It is 6.02 p.m. and I'd like to call to order the Tuesday, March 10, 2026 meeting of the Finance Committee of the Somerville City Council. Pursuant to Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, this meeting of a City Council Committee will be conducted via remote participation. We will post an audio recording, audio-video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. We are joined by Clerk Delaney Fisher-Cassiol. Clerk, could you please call the roll to establish quorum?

Absolutely. This is roll call. Councilor Link.

Here.

Councilor Strezo. Present. Councilor Hardt.

Present.

Here. Councilor Scott. Chair Wheeler.

Here.

All right. With that, we have all but one present, so we do have quorum.

Thank you. We will be taking up our seven-item agenda in the order posted. And as a general note to everyone, if I pronounce your name wrong or I get your title wrong or use the wrong pronouns for you, please do not hesitate to interrupt me. I want to get it right. So item one, committee minutes ID 26-0295, approval of the minutes of the finance committee meeting of February 24th, 2026. Any discussion on this? Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval. Environment-related grant requests. Item 2, Mayor's Request ID 26-0268. requesting approval to accept and expend a $31,000 grant with no new match required from the Department of Environmental Protection to the Department of Public Works for upgrades to the Hazardous Household Waste Facility.

I believe that we have Interim DPW Commissioner Eric Wiseman and Sanitation and Hazardous Material Program Manager Maya Yoshikawa here. Commissioner Wiseman and Program Manager Yoshikawa, could you please tell us about this grant?

Sure. Thank you, Chair. This grant is provided by the Department of Environmental Protection for a number of improvements that we would like to make to our household hazardous waste facility. That is a bay located at 1 Franey Road where we host our seasonal and monthly hazardous waste events. If you have specific questions about what is included in this upgrade, I'd like to invite Maya Yoshikawa to join us.

Thank you so much.

And just to be clear, Manager Yoshikawa, do you have anything in particular to add or more waiting for questions?

Thank you, Chair. I will answer just the broad details regarding what's covered under the award. It includes winterization of window and water pipes, A new garage door with a pedestrian door cut outside to allow for easier entry and exit Purchase and installation of safety data sheets Application of an oil and gas concrete sealer Educational Signage and Floor Markers, and then PPE and Spill Materials.

Thank you. Members of the committee, any questions? I did have one question and this might be more about the Franey Road facility in general. I'm not quite sure what the... The physical scope of the hazardous household waste facility itself is. I have been told by some residents that because At Franey Road, if you wish to speak to someone in the offices, I believe you need to go up some stairs. Is that right? I've only gone to drop things off and talk to somebody in the kiosk before.

Through the Chair. That is true. However, we installed a phone and signage at the water and sewer office, which is an accessible entrance. So if anybody needs somebody to speak to them, we can come downstairs and go to them.

Thanks. I appreciate that. That answers my question. Any other questions or comments from anyone on the committee? Okay, thank you both for being here. Seeing no more discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. You're welcome. Thank you. Okay, moving on to Item 3, Mayor's Request ID 26-0270, requesting approval to appropriate $56,339.46. from the Bike Share Stabilization Fund for installation and startup costs of a blue bike station at the Boynton Union Connect Transportation Management Association development site. I believe we have Director of Finance and Administration for the Office of Strategic Planning and Community Development, Alan Inacio here. Director Inacio, if you are here, am I seeing, oh yes, there you are. Director Inacio, could you please tell us about this appropriation?

Thank you, through you, Chair. This is a relatively routine Stabilization Fund appropriation request. Back in the fall, we received a Blue Bike Station donation. from the Boynton Union Connect Transportation Management Association. So we've gone through the process. We're ready to order. Before we order, we have to formally appropriate out from the stabilization fund. There is a memo attached with the station specifics. This one has a slightly unique configuration, I think because it's like an angled... It's going to be at an angled configuration, but... Pretty standard item nonetheless. It's about a six-month lead time, so definitely excited to get the vote tonight so we can get this order in queue. Any questions, please feel free to let me know.

Thank you, Director. Committee members, any questions for Director Adonacio? I saw a mic go off. Now you got to speak. Director, I have a question. I'm a little confused just about the basics of this item. It's a donation, but the city is paying for it? What am I missing here?

Yes, through the chair, good question. We do ask the various development sites, usually it's larger developments, that triggered this commercial developments typically. The reason being is that the city of Somerville is actually the entity in the regional bike share program. so you know the regional bike share program with Boston, Cambridge, Medford, Arlington, all the associated towns and we have to purchase the station equipment from the regional bike share system and their contract so it's linked to our contract it's ours and you know we kind of also um I want to be in control of the process of making sure everything's standard, we install it appropriately, we get the contract rates, kind of all those details.

I'm sorry, I still don't understand. What is being donated here?

The value of an 18 dock station. So it's the value of an 18 dock station, the slab that holds the bicycles, 10 bicycles, basically like the entire fit out of the station installation.

So is this something where we are appropriating money to initially pay for it and that money is going to be paid back? No, we collected it in advance. I see. This money has been donated and now we're going to spend this donated money.

Correct. We can accept funds into an existing stabilization fund. I see. Every single appropriation out has to come to City Council. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Thanks for catching me up. Other members of the committee, any other questions for Director Inacio? Thank you so much for being here. Seeing no more discussion this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Okay, item four, Mayor's Request ID 26-0271, requesting approval to accept and expend a $22,800.08 grant That requires a match from the Metropolitan Mayor's Coalition Community Safety Initiative to the Police Department for Youth Violence Prevention. Now, I know I saw you, Director Wisdom, Somerville Police Department Director of Finance and Administration, Emily Wisdom here. And... I believe you are representing the police department on this. So please, Director Wisdom, could you tell us about this grant and the required match?

Yes. I just want to make sure. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay. Excellent. So this is an annual... Thank you for joining us today. We have been working to kind of improve our program over the last year. Unfortunately, kind of in the middle of the year We had someone, the person who was guiding this, these grant funds being spent, retired, and we have a new person. So recently, Captain de Oliveira was retired. Thank you so much for joining us.

It's an OT grant, so it pays for overtime, but the purpose of it is used for Hotspot Patrols, Youth Police Academy, and then youth basketball games that we've hosted with our officers. We're still planning to maintain the youth academy and the basketball games but um Captain de Oliveira is looking for new ways to kind of spend this money and invest in the youth in our community. You know, there's been some conversations about Maybe taking them to the Mystic Center or the Aquarium or things like that so that they can engage and do activities like that that might be something that engages the youth and I would add on the back of that.

Good afternoon, everyone. I would add on the back of that for you, sir, is this grant here has largely been extremely supportive and helpful in helping us reach some of our most marginalized communities. particularly the Mystics. We work with them in building productive pathways and relationships with them through sports and a range of different activities as Emily had mentioned in the past. She also mentioned Captain De Oliveira who was recently promoted to the rank of captain. He commands our community relations division and he has the task of building out Our community relations and our community policing strategy for the police department. So this grant is extremely helpful. It's been a dynamic tool that has enabled us progressively and perpetually over the years.

to really be able to engage some of our youth, particularly some of our youth that have some of the more challenging backgrounds and experiences. So I just wanted to give you some additional context in terms of how we use that in the types of individuals or young persons that we're looking to engage.

Hi, sorry to jump in. Could you just verbally state your name and position for the record?

Yes, I'm sorry. I didn't see you there on Emily's call. This is Somerville Police Department Chief Shumane Benford.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Chief. Members of the committee, do you have any questions for Director Wisdom and Chief Benford? Okay, thank you. I'd be excited to continue to hear updates about this. It sounds like a great program. I've got my hand up. Oh, please. I'm sorry. I'm not looking. Okay. I apologize, looking at the wrong set of Zoom screens, and I see two hands here. Councilor Link.

Yeah, so I love everything that I'm hearing. What I love less, I'm looking at the actual, the requirements of this grant and I see that one of the provisions is contribution, of daily crime data to the mass fusion centers, particularly Coplink. So, which, would I be right in characterizing that as A system that ICE has access to and that we would be uploading everything from what I was trying to do some research on, so I don't know if I've got it all right. But it We are uploading data that would be stuff like parking tickets, accident reports, complaints, and of course arrest data. Is that true?

Thank you very much for the question, Councilor. What I would add is that everything that you just named is a matter of a public record. It's already publicly disclosed and accessible For anyone coming in, it is a condition of the grant that that information has to be shared. But again, A, it is shared because it is a public information. They're public reports available, eligible for anyone. and B, the state has the relationship in the contract with CopLink for departments across the Commonwealth to be able to access and use for investigative purposes.

Okay, I guess it sounds to me like it's a real easy way for immigration enforcement to get quick and easy access to Data, and we've already seen some people arrested for routine stuff being arrested at the courts, and I just have to wonder if this is... If this is supporting those efforts, it definitely gives me a pretty large amount of pause.

I just want to underscore, and I appreciate you sharing that, Council, I just want to underscore, again, it's already public record, nothing that we are disclosing by our own volition. It's already public record. You know, the Massachusetts law, a and I do you know I would hate to you know discard all of the enormous gains that we've made as a community by engaging this group and I believe some of your colleagues may even have persons that are close to them that have benefited from this over the years so We have guardrails in place, but again, public information, information that's accessible to anyone. We have very limited capacity to not share that information, but to be clear, that is a condition of it, but I wanna just underscore

Thank you for joining us. I understand that there's a huge value here, but I also understand that there's, but it seems to me that there's also, it's a bit of a poison pill in there, in my mind.

Sorry, I'm still muted. Councilor Strezo, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be supporting this grant. This is a grant for some of the new counselors who are in four meetings of the finance committee. This is a grant that has existed for numerous years. and it is also in line with supporting as some of our counselors have claimed as an important value finding ways to keep kids engaged and also helping out kids that are some of our most disenfranchised in the community. This is an ongoing program that has been going on for many years and a lot of parents are happy to put their kids in this program especially the basketball game which the kids in the Mystics and the parents in the Mystics continuously love to have. It is a big thing.

and in my first term of office, I remember how important it was to get the bleachers put in for the Mystics tenant area because There weren't even bleachers for the basketball games. This is absolutely a grant that helps support our most disenfranchised and also many kids in our city. that need assistance for parents that need more opportunities for their kids to connect with the community. It would be disappointing if counselors find reasons to poke holes in services that provide a lot of help to a lot of the poorest in the city. So I will absolutely be supporting this. I've seen the good work come throughout this.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Hardt.

Thank you. Through you, Chair Wheeler, to Chief Binford, thank you for that information. I just have a question because I'm guessing that this requirement might not be only in this grant. Outside of this grant, is that data shared through CopLink because of other requirements? If you could tell us more about that.

One moment, ma'am. This is the only one off the top of my head that I am aware of that explicitly asks for this. I stopped full short of saying that there may not be others, but we are not aware of them off the top. This is the only one. that expressly ask for it that we're aware of.

Thank you.

I have a follow-up question to that, Chief Benford and Director Wisdom. Is the data sharing in question data that we would not otherwise be sharing with the Fusion Center?

This particular NOFO is attached to the Commonwealth of Mass. So in Massachusetts, as you and others may be aware, there are two fusion centers. The BRIC supports the Metro Boston region. and there's the Commonwealth Fusion Center. So again, other than publicly accessible information, We don't share. You know, certain reports and information are automatically embargoed. So sensitive investigations, investigations involving persons that may be the victim of sexual assault, domestic violence, all that information is embargoed.

Thanks. Part of the background that I just want to recognize here is we're in very uncharted territory nationally, right? I think in many other years we could have a degree of confidence in the range of possible uses of data that we would be sharing. Given that we're in this environment where there's a lot of uncertainty about exactly what the implications of different types of sharing are, I want to make sure that we're taking seriously the challenge of really understanding What these kinds of requirements mean. I do want to want to really express appreciation for the expertise, Director Wisdom and Chief Benford, that you are both clearly bringing to bear here in Reassuring the committee that this data is already publicly available.

I do know that there's different levels of readiness of availability. and um i didn't you know we're in a sort of environment where even something like this i didn't catch this provision on Page 4 of this particular document. So I just want to acknowledge that we're navigating something truly difficult here. I think I can only speak for myself. The last thing I would want to do is arbitrarily stand in the way of what seems like a wonderful program. And I do want to make sure that we're fully understanding the implications of these various requirements before we move ahead. That this item that seems so innocuous... had something that there's legitimate questions I think attached to.

I think procedurally we as a council and a city staff need to To maybe do more to proactively note and highlight and address and discuss the implications of these questions so that we're not... We're not just in the moment having to make a quick judgment on it. And I will go back to another cycle through our committee members. Councilor Link. Oh, I'm sorry, Chief Benford, please go ahead.

I just want to reply. Thank you so much for sharing. I just want to quickly just share that. I appreciate your comments. I appreciate the ability to have a conversation. I just want to underscore two points. We are committed to this city and the value set as well. And we and our officers, our civilian staff work extremely hard to make sure that we adhere to The value sets of our community and engaging in and with our partners and accepting resources. We're all advocates tirelessly in that space and furtherance of our communities. I would also say that as we look at this uncharted territory, let us not Let us not lose sight of the tremendous work and gains that have been made as a result of it, and the tremendous price on the other side.

of allowing some of those errant practices to set us back as a community. I have felt it directly as a police officer and walking and working in this city as a result of the work that some of our federal colleagues have done but I'm unwilling to give up and remain committed to building on those relationships that we've borne and I would just caution that by adhering and walking down some of these paths that we could inadvertently be setting ourselves up for down the road for what the side effects or the backside of those decisions are. So I just wanted to highlight that we're all committed to it. One, two, recognize the tremendous work that has been done with the support of this grant and that we continue to do. and then thirdly, think about the relationship that this department and the offices do every day in building and working hard with those relationships.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that, Chief. Councilor Link.

Thank you, Chair. Through you, so first of all, I just want to address, I think, some of the really, the very great things that Chief Benford just said, you know, that I really... I so appreciate that we do have a police force that is Fully committed to welcoming communities and making sure that we're trying to do right. But I guess my question, I guess to put a fine point on it, is, I guess, are we 100% confident that the data uploaded to CopLink will not result in an ICE action against one of our residents?

Thank you very much for the question. I think you're asking a question that I can't answer. I think just as we've mentioned, right, 100%, this administration and some of the actions I think have challenged everything about our social systems and again I could what if it a million different ways no doubt about it and still not come up with a definitive answer. as I said we're committed to doing the right thing we've done it boots on the ground we've had conversations we've gone out above and beyond with our officers here to try and mitigate those impacts that we know we're going to have in our community A and quite frankly that we SPD are going to be left to deal with when this is all said and done. So no, I cannot 100% guarantee that. But what I will tell you is we're working every day to ensure that the values of this department and this community are what stands out front.

Thank you, Chief Benford. Councilor Strezo.

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate the conversation. It's good to be thorough. So I do want to say that it's important to to check. Check, check, everything. But I want to make clear that we've already established as a community and each of us as counselors that we're not interested in compliance with ICE and we're not interested in supporting ICE and Again, this is a value that each of us hold and we have to be very careful alongside that value that we're not accidentally disenfranchising members of our community. through programs like this one, which has existed for many years. If you've been in the community enough, you know about it. You've heard about it. You know parents and families that have used it.

we have to make sure that we're not that yes that we're being careful but at the same time that uh quick judgments you know again these programs have been here for a while and to be cautious that we're not harming our kids and our families in the process of doing this. If this information is already public record and out there, yeah I guess that's all I have to say

Thank you, Councilor Strezo. Chief Benford and Director Wisdom, I guess I'm still curious to know more about to what degree is this information already available? I'm trying to apply a practical lens here. Understanding that there are sometimes things that superficially seem alarming, but as you've sort of alluded with this, may not actually change what information is available but I've also heard in some of the questions we've discussed that we're not sure if this information being shared could lead to impacts on members of our community.

So I have questions now and to whatever degree you're prepared to answer about about this data, its availability, its sharing in more detail now, that would be helpful. I'm also wondering, is this something where taking a pause on this Having a longer discussion, coming up with a more informative background memo about this data sharing. Is that something that could be helpful perhaps between now and Thursday's council meeting?

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for the question. One is it's pretty cut and dry and it's pretty clear. The information is 100% unequivocally a public record. You could walk in off the street to our front counter to the records window and ask for any police report that you want. Save for the ones that are sensitive for which we purposely emboggle like a sensitive investigation or one that is protected by law such as a sexual assault and or domestic violence. All of our police reports are 100% public record accessible to the community and any member of the public for that matter at any time.

Thank you, Chief. I think the distinction that I'm imagining in my head is between formal availability with a slow request and response process versus fast database searchability that can be accessed more readily, say, by a federal agency casting a wide net.

So I, you know, again, we're all very committed to protecting everyone. The assumption is, is that, you know, one possible assumption is, is that, um, You know that every bit of information is going to be used against a member of our community. Again, we want to have those safeguards and that certainly is the approach. But I do think that we're at a granular level. With this, that doesn't substantially change, you know, with the delay in the conversation. I just want to highlight that it's public access and public record. And yes, right. Could it be laborious for someone to do that work? Absolutely. But again, this is about what can we do for our residents as an entity of the city of Somerville. And as much as we want to protect, I don't think the intent is to make anyone's job under city government harder. A, and as the counselor put it, certainly defer the disenfranchised person.

So again, I just, you know, argue and reiterate to answer your question. Again, you know, we could have very broad conversations and be granular in that space forever, but It is public record. We're all committed to the community and certainly not committed to purposely exposing anyone and I don't believe that this does that. As the Councilor has said, this has been a longstanding grant that has been used to support our community for many, many years, and I don't think that substantially changes.

Thank you, Chief, and I want to appreciate what you're saying about the intentions here. I think part of what's so difficult about navigating something like this for all of us is that we're in an environment where our intentions... Your intentions, police staff's intentions can be excellent, but there are other intentions out there that are not. And so there are some difficult questions, I think, that come up Heart.

Thank you. And I want to appreciate you, Chief Binford, and you as well, Chair Wheeler, for laying these issues out. It is, I feel like, really difficult. I wanted to ask about the program and This almost $23,000. If we didn't have this grant, could the program continue with an allocation in the city budget for $23,000?

Thank you so much for the question, Chair. Everything is a dollars and cents issue in question. Right now, we are not budgeted for that. And as we always say, at a layperson's level, You know, anything is available for price. If we're willing to pay for it as a community in the many different areas for which we have built robust city services and police services to benefit our community. I think that there are many areas that we receive federal funds that will have to have a difficult type conversation with this. The short answer is yes. If the city is willing to fund it, that is an opportunity. I always hate to miss an opportunity to use external funds. to help us offset the needs and the benefit of our community so that some of those difficult funds from very limited city budgets can be used for other priorities. So the short answer is yes, if the city is willing to fund it.

But we'll just caution that I imagine across many departments, certainly not to speak for them. A conversation that this body and others will have to contemplate if that's sort of the posture that we have.

Thank you, Chief. As a follow-up to Councilor Hardt's question, the $5,720 match, is that something that comes from Police Department general funding?

Yes, each year we ask for the city council match with our budget.

Thank you. So members of the committee, I'm curious if you have the inclination to take a roll call vote. Yes or no to recommend this now, or if anyone is interested in moving to possibly discharge this without a recommendation to take it up with the broader council. Councilor Strezo?

I'm sorry. Mr. Chair, again, this is a program that has existed for numerous years and it helps kids at risk and it helps Kids that are frequently disenfranchised. And I think we have to really take a sense of self-reflection here. I'm willing to vote for it tonight. And I will vote yes. Because I know what kids in our city this impacts. It is the poorest kids. It is the most disenfranchised. It is the most at risk. And I've seen the successes in it. And there are definitely

Definitely line items that we should check in with and double check and confirm, etc. But we also have to be careful in our roles of the negative impacts that each of us could have by finding reasons why we can't support things and support the poorest kids and a program that has helped kids and families for a long time each of us chose this role and claimed we did this to help our community. So I'm fine to vote for it tonight.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Link.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to note that there's no bigger disenfranchisement than being sent to a detention center where you have no rights and you may be killed through A toothache that the detention center people refuse to see. So while I would agree that there is definitely a positive impact of this program, I have to Note, there's a very, very potential large downside that will not only potentially disenfranchise people, but some of these poor kids could lose a parent or both parents or be sent away. move to discharge this without a recommendation.

Mr. Chair on that.

I'm sorry, Councilor Strezo, there's been a motion. And just as a point of order, I want to refer to the clerks here. Okay, but Mr.

Chair on that.

Thank you. Please, just point of order. I'd just like to hand the floor to Clerk Fisher-Cassiol.

That is fine, but it is against the rules. And as chair, If that sounds like some conflation, and it sounds like Councilor Link was making some accusations, and I think that is inaccurate, and I think that's against our rules.

Thank you. I appreciate the clarity. There should be no, I think we all agree there should be no accusations across the table. Everyone is addressing the chair. And I appreciate that clarity.

Correct. There should be no disrespect or conflation in trying to make assumptions that are completely

Thank you. And I just want to recognize we're dealing with intense topics here and we're all coming from a place of caring. I want to respect, I see Councilor Hardt's hand and I just want to refer to Clerk Fisher-Cassiel because there was a motion to discharge without a recommendation.

But according to the rules, if a counselor is attempting to discharge It is against the rules to insult each other, and that needs to be called out.

Point of order, I was not insulting anyone.

Yeah, thank you. I can only speak for myself here. I didn't hear an insult. I did hear fear and concern. and I want to encourage everyone on the committee to make sure that we are speaking, you know, about the pros and cons of decisions and propositions as we see it and make sure we are not addressing or referring to other counselors.

Correct. So that is not acceptable for counselors to try to do that or complain or accuse. We're all here and we're all on the same page that we want to care for our community.

Thank you, Councilor. Clerk Fisher-Cassiel, given that there's been a motion to discharge without a recommendation, Is this a situation where we can continue the discussion or do we need to address that motion now?

To be fully honest, this is a unique situation that I'm not 100% sure on, so I don't want to give a clear answer. Perhaps if I see IGA is... In this meeting perhaps they could give a set answer. I want to make sure that we're not leading anyone astray here. Liaison Radisi, not to put you on the spot, but could you maybe speak to this? And if not, I can check with the clerk's office to get an official answer.

Liaison Radisi.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. IGA does not feel comfortable weighing in on procedural matters for the city council.

No worries. All right. I will check with the clerk's office. So let's hold for now and I will get a definite answer.

Thank you. And can I just say my best guess procedurally is that a motion has been put on the table, but we can be discussing that motion. and the question of whether that's how we want to proceed or not as part of our discussions.

Procedurally, Mr. Chair, do you want to just call for a vote on that then?

Well, yeah, I didn't want to do that without hearing from Councilor Hardt, and I just wanted to make sure we were doing this. So, Clerk, if it's okay with you, I'm going to go ahead and invite Councilor Hardt to comment on the matters before us.

Sure. Chair, can I just... I think... I assume Council Hardt doesn't want to talk about the motion?

I do.

Oh, okay. In that case, I'll take it back. I was going to say I would call the motion, but that's okay.

Sorry. I appreciate everyone's patience. I'm going to go ahead and call on Councilor Hardt to speak on this motion.

Okay, thank you. Yes, on the motion, personally, I wouldn't mind discharging without a recommendation. I really see this in all of these decisions as You know, weighing the risks and the benefits. Obviously, this sounds like a wonderful program that has a lot of benefits. And I just want to be sure I understand any risks before taking them. So I wouldn't mind. More time. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. I think we are now waiting to hear back from Clerk Fisher-Cassiel.

Yes, and Chair Wheeler, so just to confirm, we want clarification on if we have to go ahead and proceed with that vote. And or if we can continue the conversation, correct?

Yeah, I think we're okay. I think we are okay to go ahead and... and do a vote on whether to discharge without a recommendation.

Okay, I will say I do believe that we have to go through with finishing discussing the motion. Yeah, and you know what else?

On that, Mr. Chair, I think... Please, Councilor Strezo. Thank you. I think it... Number one, we all signed up to be city councilors to make sometimes difficult decisions. And every line item can't be punted to The regular city council. This is a committee to make decisions. So I just want to remind colleagues of that. Second, we need to determine if there is a time crunch on accepting this grant or not. So through you, Mr. Chair, to anyone in IGA or whom is to speak on this item, do you have that information?

Mr. Chair, I was sorry, Councilor, like liaison Radassi is something IGA has just been mentioned. Is that something you have any comment to make on?

You're the chair. I would defer to the police department.

Right. They should still be here, right?

Yeah, we are.

Chief Benford and Director Wisdom, would you speak to the time constraints and timeliness?

Yes. One moment. Director Wisdom will speak to it. I just want to underscore again that delay in taking the funds as we enter the warm weather and the peak season for young persons that are home. It is going to impact services and programming for young persons. So I would just pause and Director Wisdom can give you some factual dates that are attached to the grant, but I want, again, that to be underscored by this directly impacts real-world, real-time program.

Yes, through the chair. We do have till November 30th of 2026 to spend it. But as Chief mentioned, we do do a lot of our programming in the summer and we're coming up on that.

Mr. Chair, through you, can we get some specifics on that? What are some specifics?

And Councilor Strezo, I I hate to do this. If you wouldn't mind raising your hand. But Councilor Strezo, please continue.

Nope. You're right. Thank you. Thank you very much. You're right, Mr. Chair. I will. Yeah. Okay. Through you two, Emily Wisdom and Chief, can you please give us some timelines of the schedule of programming, please? And when? Decisions have to be secured to assemble these programs, including the basketball game.

Thank you very much, Councilor and through the chair. I don't have the schedule ahead of me, but what I can tell you is that during the spring months, we start to do outreach to our respective communities around programming that is going to happen and Late spring as well as early summer. So consistent with many families that have young persons that look for programming. These conversations start in the spring in earnest. They will include the basketball game. They will include the Citizens Police Academy for which many of our young persons participate in. So a range of those different services will happen throughout late spring and through the summer. However, outreach and work in that space will start in earnest in the spring, just as the warm weather transitions.

Thank you, Chief. Councilor Strezo?

Thank you. When does the announcement with the Rec Department have to go out and location secured, I assume?

Yeah, those are all things that will be being done by community engagement now around space. As you know, much of our programming does occur over at the Mystics. and that space often has to be secured months in advance because they too have programming as well as other partners that come in. There are reservations of school space where we hold some programming. for young persons, as well as potentially some public fields that do require some type of either reservation and interaction and engagement with the Parks and Recs Department.

Thank you, Chief. To take a turn speaking and to return to the question, I want to recognize the real validity of the points that Councillor Strezo, you've made. and Chief Benford, you have made as well, about the value of a program like this. Again, in my mind, it's One of the many frustrating and in some ways frightening aspects of the policy reality that we are in recently in this country that something as wonderful and innocuous as this program is being tied to these kinds of sharing.

And I take the point about there not being a qualitative difference in the information that's shared. But perhaps a quantitative, a volume difference in the data that's shared. In my mind, and to your valid point, to the valid point that the good at large counselor, I'll try to take my own advice and not be directly addressing, the point that was raised, about our making decisions as finance committee members How I at least see my role on the Finance Committee as a voting member is that I'm trying to consider questions and that that's the real solid purview of this committee in my view as I understand it. It's not the only understanding, of course.

When we're talking about Unexpected aspects that come along that are not questions of financial efficacy, but questions of of Financial Value, Social Value with these other kinds of trade-offs. That's where, to my mind, I start to wonder about a matter moving Beyond just the domain of the Finance Committee. I'm seeing a hand from Director Wisdom and Chief Benford.

I think that there's a motion and I think at that point we're always supposed to be on the motion and debating on the motion.

Hey everyone. Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, I checked in with our clerk's team and Peter within the clerk's office has advised me that Chair Wheeler, essentially, it is up to you if you want to go ahead and take that vote or if you want to continue conversation. It's really at your discretion.

Thank you, Clerk. I appreciate that. Chief Benford and Director Wisdom, I see a hand.

Very briefly, I just want to acknowledge two things. This issue is so important that many members of our team that are not being compensated are watching online and have shared that to the Councilor Strezo's earlier point, Mr. Chair, question. around engagement with our partners. We have started those conversations even earlier than we have in the past and have met with our partners over with Parks and Recs and other departments As it relates to scheduling and planning out our Junior Police Academy for our youth. I would also look to acknowledge some of us, the colleagues that helped reorient me. Some of this discussion came up last year. and the information being shared with our federal partners. As I testified to earlier, It is EOPS and the state that maintains the contract that cities and towns are able to use that resource on behalf of.

and they testified last year that they do not share and do not allow federal partners to have access to that data in that system. Again, that's testimony that was provided by the state.

Thank you, Chief Benford. Councilor Strezo?

Okay, so just so I have it clear that the data is not shared federally, so that kind of That is, so it's not shared, so that kind of alleviates some of the concerns of our colleagues, it sounds like.

Liaison Redassi?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, just to support what Chief Benford just said, I should have looked up an email thread that I knew Councillor Scott had reached out to EOPS last year about this to ask what kind of information sharing there is with federal agencies so I did it while we were having this conversation and I want to confirm EOPS's response was the Commonwealth Fusion Center does not provide crime tracer access to any federal partners

Thank you. Thank you, liaison. I'm sorry, just as a follow up on that crime tracer. That's the first time I've heard that term in this conversation.

Apologies, Mr. Chair. Crime tracer is another name for cop link.

Okay, so thank you. So it's been confirmed in a previous year in response to a similar set of questions. that it is our belief that there is no data sharing through CopLink with this data with the federal government.

Correct. Councilor Scott reached out to EOPS, and I hope he doesn't mind that I'm sharing this, to ask about information sharing between crime tracers slash cop link and federal agencies allowed by funding grant agreements. and the response was that the fusion center does not provide crime tracer access to any federal partners. My apologies, I should have looked it up in my inbox earlier to pull this information.

Thank you. Councilor Link, thank you for your patience.

Thank you, Cher. I'd love to see that in writing. I'm happy to hear it, but I would love to actually see it.

Yes, and I just want to appreciate your finding that liaison, Radassi. And I just want to ask all of us to make sure that we are... Just keeping in mind that we are in this unusual environment and questions like this are going to come up and I think the more that we can I think the more ready we all can be to decide on these matters. Councilor Strezo?

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Why don't, why doesn't, why doesn't IGA, why don't you just send an email right now and we can review that and have that in writing per Link's request and we can just take a quick recess and take a look at those actual forms in writing it's all an email and then come back to committee

Thank you, Councillor Strezo. Councillor Link.

Thank you, Chair. I'm to the good councillor's suggestion. I also would request that it that we get it in. I would like that to be part of the public record. I would like that when our members of the public rightly look at this and have a lot of questions that they have the resource to understand what we're understanding.

Thank you, Councilor Link. Councilor Strezo?

Thank you. Okay. So it's a call to question for us as the finance committee body to vote. Start from committee. and so then uh we have confirmation of our concerns and i suggested that we email and again the emails are coming to the council is public record So we have that. And whether or not we take a vote on that, it's still public record. And so we can pause, have that information that IGA just shared with us. We can have it send an email. We can look at it. Take a recess.

10 minutes we're already a whole hour into this meeting so and then we could take a look come back We can further deliberate and maybe we can make decisions on the many agenda items that we have that we are assigned in this committee to make decisions on with a yes or no, but a decision. So that's what I'm proposing, Mr. Chair. I know that we have a call for a decision to discharge on committee first. but also we have information that we can look for ourselves for those counselors that are still kind of scratching their heads on what direction to go or consider. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilor Strezo. Councilor Link?

Yeah, so just, yeah, to our councillor Laura Large's point, we just have a motion on the table. So I think we need to take care of that before we entertain any other motions. and then I'm not suggesting that we necessarily delay the vote I'm saying that I do want it to be part of the I want to be accessible to the public without a FOIA request.

Thank you, Councilor Lenk. Clerk, can you help me with I would like us to take a recess. Is that something that we can do while the...

I would like to withdraw my motion, Chair.

Thank you, Councilor Link. I think that does simplify things a bit. Liaison Radassi.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to flag, this is like an email exchange between Councilor Scott and... I kind of want to check with Councillor Scott first to make sure that he's okay with me sharing the information out to the committee. I'm not sure what kind of like privacy situation would be involved there so I just want to make sure before I share anything. But I did read what the email exchange said. Thank you.

Why don't we take a 10 minute recess? Per Councillor Strezo's suggestion, you and I can be in touch about these procedural matters. You might be able to communicate with Councillor Scott. and why don't we reconvene in 10 minutes? How does that sound to everyone? Amenable? Okay. All right, thanks. I'm gonna, please. Was that Councilor Strezo?

I sure did. I said okie dokie. Sorry, Mr. Chair. Raising my hand. Hold on one second. Raising my hand.

Thank you. Councilor Strezo.

Okie dokie.

Ok. All right. Thank you, everybody. Let's reconvene at 713. I appreciate everyone's patience.

Hi, everyone. Calling this meeting back to order. Clerk, do we need to take a roll call to reestablish quorum, or can we just agree to resume? We may need to wait a moment for... Hello.

Yes, we'll need to do roll call to reestablish quorum.

Great. Clerk, could you please take a roll call to reestablish quorum?

Yep. All right. Councilor Link. Strezo, present, Councilor Hardt, here, Councilor Scott, Chair Wheeler, here. All right with that we have four members present so we do have quorum.

Okay, we were in the process of addressing item 4, Mayor's Request ID 26-0271. I spoke during the recess with legislative liaison Radassi. Liaison Radassi has the email in question and is in the process of Redacting it to make sure that the version that's shared is proper. So, Clerk, I move that we... I believe we table this item or lay this item on the table and pick it back up later in this meeting. Am I using the proper terminology for that?

Excellent.

Okay. With appreciation for everybody's perspectives and their patience, we will move on for now. to Item 5, Mayor's Request ID 26-0169, requesting approval to accept and expend a $43,000 grant with no new match required from the Boston Office of Emergency Management to the Police Department for software. Chief Benford and Director Wisdom, could you please tell us about this grant?

Mr. Chair, thank you very much. I know that there's been substantial conversation already on this grant. I want to Just stop and I'm going to defer to several of our colleagues and members that are joining us here this evening. I want to thank Emily as well as Sakan Schneider, who I believe may be in the gallery. As well as Yasmeen and the entire IGA team in helping us in this space. I want to just flag at a very high level, Mr. Chair, as I mentioned in the past, You know, we have the dubious task of working through some very difficult challenges, but also providing police services, particularly to those that have been victimized or those that are in need of our services. I just want to again highlight that we are all equally committed to this community and policing in a way that honors our values set.

With regards to the $43,000, we know that those funds were going to be used to support two key initiatives that are extremely helpful for us in our specific mandate. being Gray Key and the other being Blue Voice. I know that Councilor Link had submitted several questions that he had for which we were able to reach out to the vendor They worked over the weekend in addition some others to try and get responses to those questions. And I also know that Councilor Hardt submitted two questions additionally that we would be able to speak to this evening. I want to pause there for a moment and I'd like to just recognize Detective Sergeant Schneider, who should be in the gallery, who commands several of our units and detectives to speak a little more.

about the technology and provide some detailed granular information around how it's used and more importantly, how it's used to benefit this department and our community.

Detective Sergeant Devin Schneider, I see you and recognize you. Would you please address the committee?

To the chair, thank you. Good evening, everybody. My name is Devin Schneider. I'm a detective sergeant with the Somerville Police Department. I supervise a special investigation unit, and one of my duties is to oversee the digital forensics team. Just here to talk to you a little bit about GreyKey, what this tool is and how we've used it in the past two years since we've had it. GreyKey is a specialized digital forensics tool that is used by law enforcement. What it does is it allows us to... Access and extract data from mobile devices during criminal investigations. The system allows us to attempt to lawfully unlock mobile devices and conduct forensics examination, recover digital evidence. Digital evidence in mobile devices is now one of the most important sources of evidence in modern criminal investigations, and it's a standard tool in contemporary policing. have the ability to be able to access and extract data from mobile devices in these investigations.

So a couple of examples of how we would use this tool in cases where investigators believe that a mobile phone might contain evidence of a crime. Detectives first have to establish what's called probable cause, apply for a search warrant through the court. This process typically involves preparing an affidavit, which outlines the facts of the investigation, explaining why we believe evidence of the offense. Thank you for joining us. Grant a warrant which authorizes law enforcement to conduct a forensic examination of the phone or unlocking of the phone. Once that warrant is issued, the device can be examined using special forensics tools such as gray key where we'd unlock the device, extract digital evidence, which can include communications, photos, videos, location data, or anything that's specifically relevant to the case that we're investigating.

A couple important things to note is that phones are never unlocked without legal authority. Additionally, just having a phone and committing a crime doesn't mean that we're applying for a search warrant for a phone. There has to be... What we would call a nexus to the phone, meaning that that phone was somehow involved in that criminal aspect. Many investigations, especially those that involve victims of crimes such as sexual assault, domestic violence, or exploitation, investigators can examine a mobile device with voluntary consent from the victim. Victims also provide written consent allowing us to conduct a forensic examination of their phones so investigators can recover evidence such as messages, photos, social media, communications, or other digital evidence that's related to the crime. These consent searches allow investigators to quickly obtain that critical information and also supporting the victims who are actively cooperating with the investigation.

Greykey operates in two capacities in the sense that we have it is the first one is what we call brute forcing a phone. That's where we hook it up to the Greykey machine. and Great Key will attempt to do unlock of the phone if we don't have the password. We have that search warrant. That's what we're looking for. The system also provides the capability to conduct a full forensic extraction of cellular phones once access to the devices is obtained. These extractions are considered among the most advanced in digital forensics industry and in our experience it provides a very rich data set. As a result, investigators, we frequently use gray key as our primary method in Somerville to access locked phones and the primary platform that we're using to do these comprehensive forensic examinations on mobile phones. We've had GreyKey now for about two years, and in that time we've done 58 digital device examinations.

Of those 58, approximately 70% of those examinations were done using GreyKey. Most of these cases involve violent crimes, sexual assault, firearm offenses, or crimes against children. Just a breakdown of, highlight some of these crimes. Six were from robbery, armed robbery. 6 were from firearm offenses, 4 were from shootings, 16 of these cases involved a sexual assault or rape, 4 of these cases involved child abuse or a child sex offense. Two of these cases were elder abuse. Three of these devices involved a homicide. Two of these devices involved either suicide or overdose investigation. The other 15 cases are spread out between cases such as domestic violence, civil rights violations, school threats, drugs, or just simple larceny cases.

An important distinction between the consent and the search warrant is for our stats, it's split about 50%. Half of our Examinations that we've done have been through a search warrant. Half of them are done through consent. Usually when we're doing consent, it's more involving a victim in the case would provide consent because typically if we're doing an investigation what we would want to get is um we would want to get a search warrant um I prefer it more legally so it doesn't look like we're trying to coerce a suspect. It's always more legal. Legally sound to get that search warrant then even if they're presenting consent. So it's pretty rare in the instances where we would do a consent search of a phone if it involved a suspect that we were obtaining the device from.

Some of the benefits of maintaining grade key in-house is it lets us to access encrypted device lawfully. We can recover that digital evidence quickly, a lot more quickly than if we were to try and farm it out to a lab. Labs typically have a 20-day wait associated with them. So if we're investigating a crime, especially a crime that has some kind of exigent circumstance, it could be a long wait. Having the ability in-house... Strengthens our investigations and the prosecutions because our own investigators are the ones who are unlocking and examining that data. And the biggest thing is that To help serve our victims because a lot of times when a victim comes in with a phone with a consent search It lets us do it a little bit more timely than sending it out to a lab. People rely on their phones, so usually when we have these types of investigations, We're making a special appointment for them.

We're trying to make arrangements where they can come and we're giving them a timeframe. We're going to say, you know, we'll have your phone and we'll be able to download it depending on the amount of data on the phone. It could take a couple of hours. Make sure that we have a way to communicate with them. Not just our victims too, but many times our suspects. We're trying to work with them, especially if we're trying to rule out suspects who may be claiming innocence and want us to look at their phones in order to rule them out as a potential suspect. We're also trying to work with them on timelines because people rely on their phones. They're very important. And another big reason, especially with the amount of sexual assaults and child cases that we investigate, it limits Having Greykey in-house in the Somerville Police Department limits the amount of people who are reviewing this sensitive data and it protects their privacy. When somebody examines your phone, it can be a very intrusive thing.

So we want to have the least amount of people looking at that device as possible, which is another good reason to keep our capability of Grey House in the Somerville Police Department. The quicker that we work to get this data in these cases, especially with homicides, sexual assaults, a lot of times people are trying to conceal their data, they're trying to delete their data. This just expedites the process. An example of where we use gray key successfully in a case to expedite an investigation. We had an investigation last year that involved trafficking a minor. Detectives were able to seize the phone of one of the suspects and do a forensic examination. The examination revealed text messages and conversations between the suspect and an accomplice indicating that the two are engaged in a joint enterprise. to traffic the teenage victim for commercial sex.

Messages also contained discussions of using violence to control the victim. These include statements such as... you know that they intended to beat the victim if she didn't comply there's also a reference to dropping her in the quarry if they couldn't comply which we interpreted to mean possibly committing a homicide on this victim The digital evidence that we recovered from that phone allowed us to quickly investigate the accomplice in this crime. We were able to get an arrest warrant, locate the second suspect, and arrest him quickly before any more harm could be done. Access to the device, the fact that we had Gray Key and all this allowed us to rapidly recover these communications and expedited an investigation that allowed us to intervene quickly. Involving a case that was an exploitation of a minor. Another case that you may have actually seen in the news last year, we had an investigation where a victim was assaulted by an Uber driver.

Identify an arrested suspect during the initial stages of the investigation. We're also able to get that suspect's tablet and his cell phone. Using Greykey, we're able to brute force his password. Also, while using a consent search of the survivor's phone in this case, we were able to corroborate a lot of the information that we received, including location data and other key details of the investigation. That case is still ongoing. Moving forward, but that all happened in-house in the Somerville Police Department using Greykey as a tool to unlock and examine those phones. And one other minor consideration as we go forward, you know, in technology is becoming more and more prevalent, especially with AI. We're seeing a lot of these cases now and it could be the new wave of crime where AI is being used to exploit elderly, to exploit money out of different people.

Having Gray Key in these forensics tools really helps us to validate and identify media origination. Making sure, you know, so we can tell whether it's something that was created fictitiously with AI or if it's a real person on the other end of those conversations.

Thank you, Detective Sargent. I see a hand from Director Wisdom and Chief Benford.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Just in closing, on the back of the Detective Sergeant's comments, I thank you very much. I really appreciate that. I just want to again highlight some of the benefits and really the extreme value of this tool and resource from an investigative standpoint. Expedience in the investigation, particularly when we have you know violent crimes and individuals that have been impacted you know the effects of crime are very subjective for persons so experience on our part is always helpful and this tool does I would also mention again, as the detective sergeant mentioned earlier, search warrants, they are signed off by a jurist at the court, so probable cause has been established. And with any search warrant, they determine the scope and intensity. So it's never a fishing expedition.

We're able to go in and search for and where is already authorized and supported through the search warrant. and then lastly from a financial implication standpoint again this resource comes to us by way of our grant funds and minimizes the impact on limited city operating funds and allows us to maintain This critical service and resource without further exacerbating the city budget. Thank you

Thank you, Chief. Before I move and call on counselors, this is a two-part item in that there are these two different software items. There's GreyKey. and then there's also Blue Voice. Is there anything that anyone from the police department wants to say in terms of comment on Blue Voice?

Mr. Chair, thank you and through you, yes, thank you very much for that. I do want to mention just a couple of things. As I mentioned earlier, there were several written questions that were submitted by Councilor Link for which we provided A written response to through IGA. It really is subject matter or proprietary responses for which we are not the subject matter experts in this space. We are really laypersons and end users of the technology, so I just want to highlight that. I also want to mention that when we talk about exiting circumstances as it relates to Gray Key, that was a question that came from Councilor Hardt. The Detective Sergeant spoke to that. around you know with the exception of consent with the exception of a search warrant the only time that would go into that phone is would would be when there is an exigent circumstance that presents itself specifically as it relates to blue voice

I want to again reiterate, for which I know Director Wisdom testified to in the past, is that this is a tool and a resource that is an on-demand tool and resource for officers in the field. It does not openly search the internet. It only uses the tool and the technology to search data that we input into it and we intend to use that by inputting policies and procedures. City Ordinances, and State Law. We do not intend to use the technology for report writing, nor would we share any data through that platform. We don't collect any data. That is A tool and a resource that is very specific and germane for the officer in the field as it relates to Blue Voice.

Thank you, Chief Benford. I see a hand from Councilor Link.

Yes, thank you, Chair. So first of all, through the Chair, thank you, Chief Benford, for getting me all of these answers. And I think you just maybe answered one of my kind of follow-on questions. So it sounds like, but just to confirm, so there's no plan to use like the, there's, On the website, on the learning page, there's a feature for like writing reports. And the plan is not to use that. So we're not entering in any personal identifying information of any kind. from anyone who might be interacting with the police?

That is correct. We will not be using that in any way. Thank you.

And then my last question is, While I understand that it's going to be what they're calling a closed loop, so it's not going out to the internet. It's only using the source documents that we're providing it. The answer that I received did mention that there was two variations of that, and there was one that was option that when essentially being used as a like a high-powered search engine essentially right through the municipal documents and the state documents and then it would only then cite the documents themselves and not and not try to summarize them, which is where my concerns about hallucinations come in. So are we planning on using it to

To summarize, or are we planning on using it just to cite the actual, you know, laws that may be applicable from the search?

Thank you very much for the question through the chair. The expectation is that this tool will provide an on-demand resource for the officer in the field and direct him, her, they to the specific areas in the statute that are articulating and responding to the questions that the officer has. What I would say about AI, I think this is a healthy discussion. I think you raised some really valid points around Having an open and candid conversation, what we're finding in the discipline is that we're not going to outrun AI. I think several years ago, there was intimidation about it and a lack of understanding in terms of how it may impact us. and what we're quickly finding is the industry has pivoted and all of our tools and resources are being built out this way. It does not undermine that we still have to send officers to training. It does not undermine that we still expect that officers are going to have

A comprehensive understanding of the law while also recognizing that we can't be everything and remember everything at all times. So we're hoping that this is a real-time tool that will help orient the officer to that to that specific Thank you, Chief Benford.

I think that answers all of my concerns. As long as we're not using it to actually analyze the law, then I'm much more comfortable with what this is. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Link. Councillor Strezo.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm fine going behind Councillor Hardt if she's fine with that too.

Sure. Councillor Hardt.

Sure. I just wanted to say thank you through you, Chair. Thank you to Chief Binford and Detective Sergeant Schneider for very thoroughly answering the questions that I have posed as well. So thank you.

Thank you, Councilor. Councilor Strezo.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the conversation on this and my colleagues' questions on this as well. And I... Read up, researched all the things. And I also want to, through you, Mr. Chair, to Chief Benford and Detective Sergeant Schneider, I appreciate the details of this and how How it can be, these programs can be helpful in cases with sexual assault, with child rape. or Child Exploitation with Human Trafficking. And how difficult these cases are, are hard to... Well, we know with cases of rape and sexual assault that Very few cases are convictable.

So the conversation and how everything moves so fast or just how technology and etc can be implemented is is a A dialogue and an interesting conversation, so I appreciate this. And as this is the second time we're discussing this committee and there's a lot of agenda items to discuss, I am moving for a vote. Move to approve. Call for a vote. Whatever you wish, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Councillor Strezo. The read that I'm getting from the committee is that we are comfortable with approving this item. If that's not the case, okay. Thank you. Then, with appreciation, as my colleagues said... For the extra explanations and answers to questions about both of these pieces of software, this is new territory for every municipality. and you know there's a limit to how how sure we can be about how any AI related technology works uh so I I appreciate and and I am counting on the police department as you navigate the blue voice tool in particular to be keeping our city's values in mind and

and being on the lookout for mismatches between what this AI company says they're doing with data and any signs that that's not quite what they're doing. Councilor Link?

Thank you, Chair. I'd love to, and I can do this after the meeting, but I'd love to share out the answers I got for my questions, because I think that it makes it pretty clear that this particular AI is fairly limited. I do think that as a city, we need to have some guardrails around AI in general and some use policies, but this particular case...

I would welcome that, you know, with a balance of level of depth and time.

Yeah, yeah. Chair, I'm not suggesting that we pause for anything in this. I'm just saying I would love to make it accessible to everyone. So I'll find ways to share it.

Thanks. Thank you so much, Councillor. Liaison for Dossie.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would just, through you to Councilor Link, double check with the Law Department around the parameters for that.

Thank you, Liaison. Okay, on this item, seeing no further discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Okay, Item 8, Mayor's Request ID 25-0849, requesting approval to accept and expend a $127,000 grant with no new match required. From the Boston Office of Emergency Management to the Police Department for special response team equipment and training. Chief Benford and Director Wisdom, could you please tell us about this grant?

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Really appreciate the opportunity. Again, I want to acknowledge all of our colleagues for the work that had been previously done in furtherance of this discussion. This money, again, comes to us by way of The UAC program, it supports training and equipment of our special response team. This team is an extremely important asset, tool, and resource that we have available in our community. Again, For our use during our most troubling and most dangerous instances that come up in the city. We use this team to help us proactively. around preparation for the menorah lighting and the Christmas tree lighting different rallies that have occurred around the city and so we use that resource to help us have

and many more. Help to offset backfill and overtime for training costs so that individual persons that consummate our team maintains their proficiency and competence in the skill set. It also helps the city and the department offset the investment in extremely expensive equipment that's used like shields, like helmets. Like technology, communication and interoperability with our radio systems, all of which are extremely costly. As well as when we have individual persons that cycle in and out of the unit, we often have to

Equip them from head to toe with the proper equipment and regrettably because we all have different body types, 99% of that equipment is not interchangeable. So these tools are all procured with this resource. They're extremely helpful. We rely on them every day. We rely on them for how we go about ensuring safety and security for our city. And as I've said, being able to respond to those threats when they do happen. The performance period of this grant is a three-year period. These funds are being awarded with UASC year FY24. So a year has already gone by. I highlight that because these funds are not funded annually in the sense that this $127,000 is available for one calendar year. It's only over the three year performance period. So when you break that down,

The safe assumption is to think of it as thirds over the performance period of three years of the grant.

Thank you, Chief Benford. Are there any members of the committee or, you know, Detective Sergeant, any other guests who have comment on this? I just wanted to share that, you know, a bit of information that I was able to find reading the cover letter on this item. I did want to note that it makes reference to the obligation for the City of Somerville to adhere to requirements in the The state of Massachusetts project plan agreement with UASI for fiscal year 2024. I was able to make... A public records request to the Boston Office of Emergency Management and get a copy of that just to be able to look at the section that's being referenced.

By my read, all of the items there were in line with my expectations for what that's worth to others. One question that I had for you, Chief Benford, it sounds like the equipment that you're talking about is a mix of some which is fairly routine. and some which is more in the kind of armored direction of you know shields for example and I know there's been concern raised in many different cities about the tendency for this more hardened equipment to lend itself to military-like mindsets in even the most well-intentioned officers. One question I have for you is, is that a concern that you and your department Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair, for the question. I greatly appreciate that opportunity. One thing I will say about the officers here in SPD is We're not faking our value set here. It's very clear in this city and every officer takes the job with SPD understanding that we are a department that's accountable to the community and we police according to those thresholds. With that said, there are a couple of things that we won't compromise on, and that's officer safety, right? Because there's a direct link between officer safety and community safety. And we can and will balance both. And when we talk about militarized responses, We take a measured response to everything. When we think about our special operations, we do it very deliberate. So as an example, when we plan for our major events, we don't put officers out in tactical gear on the front line. Those offices are available as an asset offline on a site if in the worst case scenario we need them.

So that's one example in terms of how we mitigate them. When we start to talk about Office of Safety. When we start to talk with special operations in terms of serving search warrants or attempting to take dangerous violent felons into custody, we always try to balance the impacts that it has on the community. The time that we're executing. In fact, in the state of Massachusetts, we have specific times that are articulated by the court for when warrants cannot be executed. And if we do step outside or need to go Outside those parameters of a nighttime warrant, which are typically the exclusions, we have to get very specific permission from the court and those are tenants that are consistent with the authorization of the search warrant.

when we do those things we always do it on balance we use those teams to safely enter a home or to safely enter a location so as to minimize the impact or the possibility of danger again to the community and all the officers. Once we are done with that initial phase of the operation, those officers are often removed from the scene and other assets, tools and partners within the operation take over. There's often not a long-standing presence of those officers on scene. I do want to be fair in the discussion when we talk about community safety and officer safety. When we're entering a home and we know that we're trying to take a suspect into custody that has a violent firearms history, that has a history of consistent activity with firearms, we do take into account

The highest level of security posture that we can in going into that, but we always start with how do we maximize and how do we go about this operation while prioritizing both community safety and officer safety. We do that with a high level of deconfliction. There are multiple stages that occur as part of that process. And it also, as we go through the approval process, it includes senior executive level managers within the department to ensure that we have multiple eyes on it. Most importantly, to ensure that the dynamics of the value set of our community as well as the spirit of our rules are being taken into account from decision makers and policymakers within the department.

Thank you, Chief. One quick note I wanted to also add is that among the other equipment that is listed in your letter about this, Chief Benford, are the pole cameras, the two pole cameras. And I wanted to point out to everyone that there is a surveillance technology impact report about those cameras that's available on the ENCODE website. As well as, referring to a previous item, there is a surveillance technology impact report available for the Gray Key software. I believe the most recent year for that one is 2023. Thank you. Counselors on the committee, are there any other comments on this item? Okay, seeing no further discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting.

That brings us to the end of this series of police department related grants. Liaison Radassi, could I just check in with you about if you feel like the information regarding the email chain is in a position to share now because we could also go ahead with the next item instead of returning to this previous item.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I sent the email. As I noted in the email, I'd appreciate some extra time to have law review my redaction because I am not a lawyer, so I'm not sure I did it correctly, but the contents of the email should be in your inboxes.

Thanks. I have to say, I don't seem to be seeing it. Oh, okay. Sorry. It's in this other chain. Handouts for the Finance Committee meeting. Thank you. I do see it. Okay, why don't we return to that item, Clark, to item four. ID 26-0271. And maybe we could begin by just giving everyone three minutes to read this email and review it, if that's okay. Thank you all.

Please give us just a few...

If everyone is ready to resume discussion on this item, members of the council, are there further thoughts?

All for a vote please Mr. Chair.

If there's no other comments here, I'm inclined to call for a vote on recommendation for approval for this item, unless anyone wants to make a case otherwise. Okay, Clerk, could you please do a roll call vote on recommendation for approval for this item?

Yes, so this is recommending approval on item number 26-0271. Councilor Link?

No.

Strezo. Yes. Councilor Hardt. Yes. Councilor Scott. Chair Wheeler.

Yes.

All right. With three votes in favor, this does pass.

Thank you, Clerk. Okay, that concludes the items related to public safety. I appreciate all of the questions and answers and the helpful testimony of our detective sergeant as well. Thank you all and have a good night.

Thank you. We appreciate you all. Appreciate your understanding and the opportunity.

Thank you.

Have a good night.

And we will move on to item seven. Officers Communication ID 26-0201, the Director of Economic Development, conveying the potential use of an Urban Center Housing Tax Increment Financing Tool, ACTIF, to incentivize housing production. And we have the very patient Director of Economic Development, Rachel Ned Kearney. Director Ned Kearney, could you please speak to this communication?

Good evening, everyone.

I want to introduce as well, Katie Weiss, who is one of our economic development planners and is going to be presenting with me on this topic. Clerk, just to double check, can she share her screen?

I think we are seeing it now, so it's working. And welcome, Katie Weiss.

Okay. On my end, I'm still seeing the... My view is still showing the...

There should be tabs at the top that you can toggle.

Oh, that is new. I'm learning something new, Clark. Thank you.

Now I can see that. Okay. Very cool. So good evening, everyone.

We are here tonight to talk about the Urban Center Housing Tax Increment Financing Program. It is a very, very long name and it has been christened the Uctif, not by us, but by the folks over at Housing and Livable Communities. So the UCTF program is a state program and it is a program that is designed to assist communities with incentivizing housing. It is a tax increment financing program which we'll talk a little bit about as a general concept, but it has a very specific purpose and that is to look at adding housing in otherwise commercial areas. We are really looking at all tools to finance new housing production here in the city of Somerville. And we have been for a while.

What is interesting about Octif is that it is a tool that is... Fully within the city's control after you get approval from the state to have a zone. The city gets to decide which projects to fund using the tax increment financing program once they've established an area. so it's a it gives us a lot of flexibility um and it can make a real difference in some of these projects that are stuck um if you want to go to the next one I wanted to just share a graphic we've used before that describes what tax increment financing means, especially for anybody who might be listening at home. and for our counselors who are newer, this is the same graphic that we used in our presentations around the transmedics tax increment financing agreement. Transmedics is a traditional tax agreement financing agreement.

That is, it's a tax agreement that is linked to commercial development. Typically, in the state of Massachusetts, tax increment financing requires that there be capital investment and job creation. That's a traditional TIF. UCTF was built as a tool a dozen or so years ago to allow tax payment financing for housing. The state has a lot of specific requirements around the program. and communities actually have to have an approval from what's now housing and livable communities before they can utilize it. Katie is our in-house expert on all things OCTIF. And so she's here with me and Diane to answer any of those detailed questions. Do you want to just bring you up to speed? We've used this tool before. This will be what we're looking at is establishing a broader potential use of this option.

The first time we used DuckTiff, though, was for the Winter Hill 299 Broadway project. So, Katie, actually, if you don't mind going back to that for one second. So I think you all are familiar with the 299 Broadway project, the Old Star Market site. And what we did with the octave zone is that we aligned our octave zone with the urban renewal zone. So the urban renewal area for Winter Hill includes what is the Star Market, The Old Star Market, and Walgreens, which have been demolished for the 299 Broadway project. But it also includes a couple of other parcels. So anything within that pink boundary is actually where we can utilize Octif as a tool. So we've used it for the 299 Broadway project, but there's also a couple other smaller sites within that that could potentially utilize UCTF as well.

So the Somerville Land Trust is working with Habitat for Humanity on Sewell Street, a little parcel area. To the right hand side, they're the two little parts that stick up. Octave could be a tool that we utilize to support that project down the line if it needs it. Octave could also be utilized at the corner. There's two parcels at the corner, which are not in active redevelopment conversations right now. But again, Uctif could be a tool for anything that's in this pink boundary.

And that's really the sort of the reason I had to pause on the map is that the way it's programmed. I just want to interrupt them with apologies, Rachel.

The audio is slowing down for me.

Getting approval of a zone, an area that you want to use it. And then there's actually a second step, which is deciding which projects. And I'm trying to understand if that might be helpful.

Yes, I'm sorry, Director Nengardi. I think there is an internet hiccup happening.

I'm happy through you, Mr. Chair. I'm happy to take over while Director Nengardi...

Thank you, Planner Weiss. Absolutely. That would be wonderful.

Can you hear me?

Still a little spotty. And can you hear me better now? Yes.

The image is still frozen for what it's worth. But Katie Weiss offered to take over the presentation if you can hear us.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will continue through you. Let's see, let me pull up my notes really quickly. So as Director Nadkarni gave an overview of, we've used this tool before in Somerville at the Winterhouse site, and it was a very, It was instrumental in allowing that the financing for that project to move forward. In the case of the 299 Broadway site, it also allowed for a higher level of affordability than otherwise would have been. Both able or required. So we've been looking into this tool as a possibility for other areas in the city. As was alluded to earlier, there are a few steps that go ahead before any agreement is even negotiated. So initially we would need to define a zone and develop a plan that identifies

Our goals for this tool in the city and then any future project would need to come and negotiate specific terms on a per project basis. After it goes through a local approval process and goes to the council for a vote of approval, it would then go back to HLC Housing and Local Communities for final approval. just a reminder which I think we we noted a bit earlier but the qualifications for the zone itself it must be primarily commercial and the projects within that zone must be primarily to deliver housing. So this isn't a tool to build new commercial properties. It is primarily intended to deliver new housing. The zone also must meet some specific conditions. So one of the following, such as a high commercial vacancy rate,

Higher unemployment rates or others more specifically defined in the program requirements. We've been looking initially at The areas in assembly some areas within assembly square and portions of East Somerville primarily along the interstate highway where there are some housing projects that have been stalled that could move forward if If they had the ability to move forward A lot of the area of the zone that we've been looking at so far is underutilized there. It's characterized by almost 50% surface parking or vacant lots. And as I mentioned previously, there are projects that are underway that could move forward with the help of a tool but are currently stalled. So just to wrap up.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't even bring up any project that goes through that negotiates an UCTIF has to meet a specific affordability threshold, whether that's one of the ones listed or an existing inclusionary zoning ordinance. So again just today's presentation was to familiarize the council with this tool as an opportunity for the future and we've done some research into potential areas that could that we would bring back in the future to the council for Review, but today was to bring some information about a potential tool. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Plano Ruiz. Just before we move on to questions, I wanted to do a little check about whether we have Director Nadkarni. Fully able to hear and participate in the questions.

Yes, after it was all fine for the entire last set of presentations and then I got kicked out but back.

Okay, glad to have you back. Councilor Strezo.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay, first, I think I may have printed through you, Mr. Chair, to our Economic Development Committee. Masters, Masters of Economic Development. So I think I printed out the first version. What's the difference in slides? That is not my question, but just so I can stay consistent on what I'm doing, what was omitted or included, I think.

I think we added the map. I don't think the other slides really changed.

Got it. Okay, thank you. So with that, if we can start... I have about three questions. First, when this was... When a... When he hired a consultant last year and presented this to the council, which by the way was a different council than this council, there are new members, I said that I was not comfortable Getting deep on this topic without hearing from the Office of Housing Stability and the Housing Division. I still want to not get into any serious conversation on any amendments to AMIs without their feedback, which is crucial. So I just want to put that out there. Second, when we talk about, I'll start with page six. The project qualifications.

If that's the same pages that you have in the second one. We're talking project qualifications.

We can jump to a different number, but we'll jump to that slide.

Yeah, cool. Thank you. It says... Second bullet point unit mix must satisfy a minimum affordability threshold. So I see that 15% affordable to households at or below 80% AMI. and then 25% affordable to households at or below 110 AMI. Now, if anyone that isn't too deep on or, you know, Isn't well versed on EMI and it gets really confusing real fast. That's market rate, correct? 110%? That's pretty much, that's like 110, like the, that's close to market rate. So 110% is about 83 or 118. So I know in the past there has been consistent problems.

filling apartments and units with 100% AMI or 110% AMI. Because with the qualifications being it's essentially market rate, Why would tenants want to be in a unit that is essentially market rate and go through all the complexities of the recertification process every single year? For something they can just not have to do with market rate. So can you expand on that, please?

Sure. So these actually are not our standards. These are the states. When we did the 299 project, we... They were following the... Again, you have to meet a minimum of one of these three criteria. So the minimum criteria that we used at the time with 299 Broadway was a minimum it needed to meet our inclusionary zoning standard for the project as a whole. Now the state has built this tool to incentivize across, again, the entire state. It's been utilized in Worcester, Lowell, and a few other locations. in some municipalities that 110% is the target level that they're trying to reach. They're looking at it more from a workforce housing perspective. Um, whereas in our, in Somerville, we have tended to focus more on the affordable housing market, um, exactly for the reasons that Councilor Strezo, you mentioned, um, that the 110 is not meeting, is not, um,

I'm sorry, no need to repeat what you were saying before. So we would expect that we would be looking at the inclusionary, but again, this is just, it's the minimum criteria that the state is setting. It is, again, something that we would be looking at on a project by project basis, not as the zone itself.

Thank you. And Mr. Chair, through you on that, if they are. actually built with this state's qualifications of 110 or even 100% AMI, which is essentially market rate. And they're only designated as market rate I'm sorry only designated as housing that you have to qualify at 100 or 110 percent then What happens when these units are not able to be filled? Now, back in the day, for anybody who wasn't fighting for affordable housing in 2012 and 2014 and 15 here, Typically, yeah, that that was like the model, right? Like the earlier starts of the affordable housing conversation was 810 and 100% AMI was included in that, enveloped in that for to be designated as work house or work.

Force Development like housing and that was where we started and then fast forward five six years we have a bunch of Vacant units that we can't fill because they're lodged in this designation that isn't getting utilized because everyone can just go on market and not have to and we're still stalled on that so my concerns are that and if that is that being modeled as a affordable housing unit when it's technically like yeah sure income restricted but not technically affordable housing because it's still kind of market rate. I know that's a lot at the same time. Please forgive me. Happy to back up if necessary.

Director, Mr. Chairman.

Through the Chair, I think what's unique about ACTIV is it's an incentive program, right? We are incentivizing the production of housing through our tax dollars, right? That's... I think the question that I think we should put some thought to as we develop our next conversation with you all is what's the recourse if they aren't meeting their affordability? If they are not filling the units that they designated, what recourse do we have and do we want that to look differently because we have dollars in the game? We're committed to the product in a different way. 299 it's it's a substantially higher level of affordability than a typical project right and so it's There's a little bit less worry about meeting these minimums, but I think that's a really good question, Councilor, of what recourse are we building into our agreement?

When we go forward at the next stage with an UCTIF program, This map that we would be bringing to you all again, the city council actually has to approve all of this before it goes to the state for approval. is that we would be approving a few different things. We'd be approving a zone, what's the area in which we would apply this. We would be approving a plan which is a narrative to describe what we're trying to achieve. And then the third thing is a form of agreement which is the baseline legal agreement that we'd be looking at when we actually then negotiate with a project. in that form of agreement is where I would say we would want to look at language around that recourse question.

Mr. Chair, through you, if I may, to Director, but who would make that decision? Would that be a decision that was completely built and made by economic development and so the council has no role in that.

Through the chair, no, we changed the form of agreement under the Winter Hill Urban Renewal Plan with council feedback. And that's fully what we would expect here as well. I also would anticipate that this would be something that would be being tracked with the housing division. Again, the housing division already does annual recertifications to review that they're in compliance with the inclusionary requirements.

Thanks.

I'm sorry, Councilor Strezo. I'm going to cycle back around if that's okay.

Nope. Got you. Got you.

Yeah. There's much more to talk about. Councilor Link.

Thank you, Chair. Two questions. I think I can get them both pretty quickly. So the first one actually just kind of to pull in the same thread that Councillor Strezo was pulling on, which is just... Some clarification. So the project must satisfy a minimum of one of the following. Who decides which of those minimums it is? Yeah.

Katie, help me remember this.

I think we set that in our plan and form of agreement, or is it negotiated by project?

It's negotiated by project.

I guess I would call attention to the fact that the first two minimums are less than what we would normally be requiring. and then uh so my my second question um is oh my goodness i just lost it um oh is how are we balancing um or is there an eye towards balancing this uh You know... Incentive to build or incentive to actually, you know, if this tool, if I worry that if developers see all these tools used in this project and if I just hold out in LandBank for just a little while longer, maybe they'll cycle back to me and give me a little bit of a bonus. So how are we balancing that kind of incentive versus maybe actually de-incentivizing people to build?

I'm just writing that one down. I think that's something we can also look at in this form of agreement as well and in the plan. The plan is really to lay out our intentions, right? What kinds of projects do we want to incentivize? What are our goals here? and it gives us then the staff who are going to be doing the negotiating and then also city council who reviews the actual agreement the background right because this could be a few years between when we approve this plan and zone and when we actually negotiated that agreement so I think that we could be looking at that as well around you know is there a Exploration date, right? Does our form of agreement include a, you know, this is here if you build within the next 24 months, you know, you have to pull a building permit within X months from the date that you were approved for the TIF in order to make sure that it's live.

Sorry, just interrupt that because that's not quite what I'm asking. I'm just wondering how it works. I worry that this is telegraphing to developers that they could wait and maybe we would offer them a bone. right and so that they would maybe stall their projects maybe they see that it's like the math isn't great and if they wait maybe and ask and just where they would have developed otherwise, they might not because they see that there's this potential thing to grab. So how are we telegraphing to developers that like, you know, this is not for you.

Yeah, I think what we've been looking at is, you know, we've been trying to really target our looking at our analysis of where this tool could be applicable to a couple things. One is where is their commercial vacancy right now? That's criteria one that we have to look. We need to look at what is our definition of vacancy that we're targeting. Commercial vacancy is the one that we've been looking at with assembly. With the other thing that we've been looking at is where do we have... Products that have stalled for a long time already, right? Products that are already permitted, ready to go, and yet because of the downturn in the market, We just are not seeing any movement on them. And we know that it's just the numbers are not penciling right now. So this is really a sort of a tool that fits in that gap, but it does not expire. So that is a question that we can look at of, you know, how do we...

We might want to set ourselves our own sort of expiration timeline on it kind of thing.

Thank you very much for your answers.

Thank you. Director Nat Kearney, I have a few follow-up questions of my own on these questions. So one thing I didn't quite understand is that the zone must be commercial, but the project must be residential. I feel like I'm missing a step.

Yeah. So what the state, the reason this exists, right, is the, as a program, again, this was developed more than a dozen years ago and it's a statewide program. What the target locations are, are sort of traditionally like a downtown district that has no housing. It doesn't, it has no housing, jobs, housing balance, right? We talk a lot about that in Summer Vision. We're looking for jobs, housing, balance. And so if you think about a neighborhood that has... And I would say Winter Hill is a pretty classic example of what they were trying to accomplish, right? You have a low-slung, single-story retail district. Adding housing above retail is a goal. right that's an area that they're trying to fill in get those feet on the street have that built-in population to serve the the retailers that is the sort of the infill housing that they're trying to accomplish through Octave. Assembly actually is that same classic story at a different scale

We've been trying to figure out how to launch more housing in assembly. We have some, but a lot more potential for housing. The Assembly Square neighborhood plan calls for a lot more housing than we see today. and we do have a vacancy challenge in Assembly Square as well and so that's what they're trying to achieve is thinking about those locations where you've got concentration of retail locations Where could there be infill above? Assembly, similar story, higher density

Thanks. I still feel a little confused because it seems to me as though there are also entirely residential areas where the same exact arguments hold, but... but I'm also understanding that this is a in some ways a state program and that that's another piece that I was a little confused about is there state money that's involved with this program that so Would we, in the absence of state legislation on this, would we be able to waive? Different taxes in order to encourage development? Or is it something where we wouldn't be able to do it on this kind of case by case basis, but for this enabling legislation on the state level?

Belief Chair, your second answer is the one that is my understanding of it. So tax requirement financing in general had been... Tightly held by the state. The state used to require that every tax increment financing agreement, every single project, commercial or not, had to be approved individually by a state agency. The acronyms have changed as the Structure has changed, but it used to be that it was one... Housing and Livable Communities and Economic Development split apart. UCTIF went with the Housing and Livable Communities side and regular TIFs went with the Economic Development side. It used to be even for something like Transmedics, we would have had to have a state approval after a local approval. They've taken away the state approval requirement for the commercial projects, but the state enabling legislation

still defines what we can do in terms of a tax increment financing agreement with a commercial entity. Octave is the same basic setup on the housing side. And so the state still has all those steps. The state did not get rid of the oversight.

So in that context, that these minimums, that some of these are... A bit paltry, let's say. That's okay, because if we want Somerville to have higher standards... We can. It's just that the state is saying, hey, we're not going to allow the sort of fast track approach to this tax increment financing unless it meets at least these kind of minimal requirements. Okay, thanks. That helps me with the context. Strezo.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm happy to be in the back if Councilor Zuevans spoke I think at the moment you're the only one. Right on!

Take it away.

Great to be back in the queue. Yeah, thank you very much. And I threw you, Mr. Chair, to Councilor Link. Yeah, thank you for bringing that up about just who is this for. Yeah, this is very much for major developers. So this is what it's looking like. And with that, Mr. Chair, through you to Director Nadkarni, I'm really stuck on the numbers, and I get that this is a state tool, and I appreciate that elaboration, but we know that trying to jumpstart in most are or Jumpstart in a community that's trying to jumpstart is way different than where we are here today in 2026 in Somerville. It's definitely not apples to apples and my concern

is the numbers of the shifting of now 50, like on page, my page six on project qualifications, where meeting those three bullet points of 15% affordable to households at or below 80%. So like, A lowered, definitely lower than 20% of more of the lower income qualifications, while we have an increase of that of their market rate or or middle grade or definitely higher and I don't know that here in Somerville that that's a different kind of qualification and so essentially are we incentivizing developers major developers to just build them as luxury units

that technically can be reserved as affordable housing on the higher end of the percentage AMI. Are we saying that we can do that? And then, well, but actually it's, I don't know. I have my, this is, that page, I'm not sure how that isn't going to negatively impact for residents in our city. So I don't know if that's a statement or a question. I don't know, but those are my immediate impressions and my sticking point in that as well. So director, feel free to.

Thank you. If I can, Mr. Chair, think about this way.

These are the standards for who we can begin negotiating with. We don't have to negotiate with anybody. The octave is an option. It's not a... We don't have to say this. This is all discretionary, right? And every agreement to approve a tax increment financing agreement for any single project would have to come back to the council. These standards are really saying at a statewide level, if you want to even be in the game of using this tool, you're going to have to have a project that meets these minimum standards. Our minimum standard is you have to get approval through our zoning ordinance and our zoning ordinance has a higher level of affordability required. So our standard zoning approval, we already meet that qualification across the board.

So this is really thinking about how can we use, do we want to use this tool to incentivize the production of housing faster than the rest of the market? Do we want to use this tool to incentivize production? Do we want a greater degree of affordability? Do we want to incentivize something a little bit more unique about a project, which is what 299 was, right? Those are the questions that we can use Octave to try and answer. Part of the reason that we're here thinking about this today is that the market is not producing housing right now. Our pipeline is pretty much zero when it comes to large-scale projects. So the question on the table around Octave for us has been, We've been saying this is something we should consider really diving deep into because we do want to see more housing. We do want to see projects launched that have been stalled already for two to seven years.

Can we beat the market and continue to build on our pipeline goals faster by bringing our tax dollars to bear?

Thank you. Director Link? I've been promoted? Sorry, Councilor Link.

It's getting late.

What department am I in, Director? No, sorry. Thank you, Chair. So just so I can... I just, what I've heard, I just want to make sure I don't, I'm not looking at this with rose gold glasses. So this is, there's the potential that we could have, that we could be requiring, we could incentivize projects that are deeply affordable. with this as opposed to 110% or 80%. Yes. And it's up to us, not up to the, there's no state requirement. Okay. Thank you.

Councilor Strezo.

Thank you. To elaborate, Mr. Chair, through you to, I don't know whomever, Councilor Link or Director Narcani, affordable to whom? The developer, because 80% is not that affordable, like That's not, that's not, let's be very clear here. So you're saying you're agreeing, Director, Mr. Chair, through you too, you're agreeing to affordable project, affordable for the developer, correct?

We can set our standard for what we think affordability means as long as it's more affordable than one of those metrics.

Or the developer, right? Of

For our housing stock, it has to be at least 15% of units targeting 80% AMI or at least 25% at that 110% level.

or another combination if we have an existing inclusionary housing ordinance which we do okay but to clear pardon me through your director that it's true to the director 15%, okay, 20% is our standard of affordable housing. So the first bullet point is less than that. That is 15% of affordable housing at or below AMI. The sweet spot and the extreme need is even way below 80%. The extreme need is at like 50% AMI and lower so 80% AMI which is much higher is not Hitting deep affordability and the needs of our constituents that are struggling to stay in our community. Let's be clear here. And the second bullet point is a completely different conversation.

25% affordable to households at or below 110% again that is close to market rate and the people that would qualify for that In my experience and talking about this for many, many years on the council is that there's not a lot of incentive to rent units at 110, 100%. I'll stop there because we could go back and forth, but I need to clarify. And fact check on this, or not fact check. I'm not in any way suggesting that you're not. But I'm saying that we need to make sure that we're explaining this as that we're talking about this with that perspective that it's not just like more affordability the reality is we're shifting numbers and this is a state I know that you did not put this forward this is a state program I understand that

But that's a different qualification. We have extremists for affordable housing with units that are 50% and below. There's a devastating need for that. Thank you. Sorry, Councilor Link, I know you have your hands up.

Thanks. And sorry, Director Nadkarni, just to speak to this conversation, because I think this is a very important thing. Is it your understanding that These are low thresholds and it could well be that Haverhill or Canton or some other town besides Somerville might say, hey, we're going to do UCTIF with this building that's 25%. quote-unquote affordable to households at or below 110% AMI. But Somerville, if our city staff, our mayor, our city council... don't want to do UCTF at that lower level and we want to say first of all you've got to meet the actual existing inclusionary zoning ordinance 20% and in fact for UCTF we might even insist on higher standards with you know it may be that we say we want a certain amount at 50% of AMI A certain amount at 80% AMI.

We could set much more high standards, so to speak. Lower AMI numbers, but higher standards. And these are just the question of if we called up the statehouse and we said, hey, are you okay with us using Octave in this case? Are you clear of these pretty reasonable low thresholds? And we'd say, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they'd say, sure, go ahead. That's the only kind of role for these bullet points. Is that right?

Yeah.

Correct. Think about something. One case that we are thinking about is that we have projects that were approved at 12.5% because they were approved in an earlier version of the zoning ordinance. They cannot... utilize UCTF unless they come up to one of these standards. So that would be the only case in which we would tap one of those standards in Somerville. Otherwise, our inclusionary zoning ordinance is your bottom line threshold.

Thank you. Councilor Langley.

Thank you, Chair. Just to, I think, kind of maybe I'll reiterate just, but just to, I think, it's really clear so in theory we could the city could say this uh project is uh We're going to give you this kind of offer. And we've decided that it's got to be 50%, and this is a very hypothetical, but we've decided that 50% of the units have to be 50% affordable. And that would be... That would be the offer that we can decide that that offer is going to be there and the city council would be involved in that and deciding what that offer would be.

Yes, so if I can explain a little bit about the process. So this is a multi-step process, and this is where Octave becomes complicated, and why we want to bring it to you in this early format first, is that there's a... You have to write the zone in the plan, which is, this is the area in which we are applying this tool. It meets these criteria around Commercial Vacancy or meets the definition of blighted. So that is the analysis that Katie has been deep in trying to find areas that could work. and meet that threshold. Then there's the plan writing itself. What are our intentions here? All of those steps. The plan and the zone have to be approved by the city, along with the form of agreement, which is like the broad brushstrokes of what we're negotiating within. And after that whole package gets approved.

then you actually begin we would actually then begin negotiations with an individual project that's not always the case octave has typically been done where you already have a very specific project and they've happened together but when you read the or the way the The program was originally conceived. It was conceived of as you get this area defined as saying this is the area where we want to use our tax dollars to incentivize housing production. and after that then we'll talk about negotiating with individual projects that gives us a lot of flexibility then to negotiate with those individual projects right we have the flexibility to say uh this is where the market is in this moment in time right now Our focus is on 50% AMI units. And so unless you're producing 50% AMI units, we don't want to talk, right? It gives you that flexibility to then have those individual negotiations

and once you actually have that individual negotiated agreement it comes back to the city council for approval of the individual approval so the city council has a lot of stages in which there is a check and balance on what's going on here and nothing goes through without those folks.

Thank you, Director. Any other thoughts or comments from anyone, including Director Nadkarni and Economic Development Planner Weiss? Well, thank you so much. Thank you for staying all the way to the end of the meeting and for all of this background. It's nice to know that we have this tool. and I'm curious to see what opportunities come up for us to deploy it.

Motion to adjourn.

Yes, but first, that does bring us to the end of tonight's agenda. Do I hear a motion to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn? Motioned. Link moves to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn. Could the clerk please read the agenda item numbers of the items up for recommendation to approve and call the roll on recommending approval of these items and adjournment.

Yes. And Chair Wheeler, to clarify, what would we like to do with this item number seven that was sent for discussion? Oh, thank you.

Thank you. I believe it would make sense to mark it work complete.

Perfect.

Thank you. That item is laid on the table for approval.

And going back... Mr. Chair? Am I... Mr. Chair Sorry, Councilor Strezo Sorry, is it Is it You just, I was about to say it and see if this is still okay On that last agenda item, I wanted to ask the director what, because none of this is approved. and there are many conversations I just quickly wanted to ask if clerk thinks it's still suitable for me to ask what the What they are proposing in economic development, their next steps for this item would be or where their next approach is. Are they going to another committee, etc. ?

Thank you. Clerk, is it possible to put the motion to take a roll call and adjourn on hold and to take back up item number seven?

Can we go back in time quickly? Build a time machine? No.

We're giving the clerk a workout tonight.

That would be at your discretion then. Thank you.

Then I use that discretion accordingly. And let's pick back up item number seven for this question.

That question's done, right? Boom, done, right?

Through the chair, yes. So we are in the midst of, we want to come to you all and have this conversation. We're speaking with various stakeholders in and around assembly. particularly looking at you know does this feel like the right fit we're engaging a lot with the housing and housing stability and housing advocates to get into these very questions around what feels like the right kind of signals to include in the plan because that's what we want to double check before we bring something more Thank you, Mr.

Chair, for indulging me and Director for that. And on that, I did not still hear I still did not hear actual communications from the Director of Office of Housing Stability and the Director of Housing within our city. So I'm done with that, ready to move on, give that a... is approved for, I'm sorry.

If I may, they are part of the team working on this. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Thank you. Thank you, Director. Mr. Chair, through you.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Councilor. Thank you, Director Nadkarni. Thank you, Planner Wiese. Seeing no further discussion on this item, it is marked work completed. It's a move to approve. Link moves to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn. Could the clerk please read the agenda item numbers of the items up for recommendation to approve and call the roll on recommending approval of these items and adjournment.

On recommending approval of the following items and adjournment. Item 1, ID number 26-0295. Actually, excuse me, sorry. Number two, ID number 26-0268. Item three, ID number 26-0270. Item 5, ID number 26-0169 Item 6, ID number 25-0849 Link, Yes, Councilor Strezo, Yes, Councilor Hardt, Yes, Councilor Scott, Chair Wheeler, Yes, All right, with that, that is all those in the affirmative, and it is 8.42 p.m. All right.

Thank you, Clerk. Thank you, Liaison Radassi. Thank you, everyone who joined, and thank you, members of the committee. Have a great night. Night, everyone.