Somerville Zoning Board of Appeals 5-20-2026

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the City of Somerville Zoning Board of Appeals meeting of Wednesday, May 20th, and it is 6.02 p.m. Pursuant to Chapter 2 of the Acts of the 2025, this meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals will be conducted via remote participation. A recording of these proceedings will be found online here at Agendas, Minutes, and More. Tonight joining us is our board, Anne Brockelman. She's our vice chair. Ann Fullerton, Olivia Mobay, Zach Zaremba, who will be our acting clerk tonight, and Sisia Daglian. I am Susan Fontano, your chair.

Tonight, Mr. Zaremba, he's going to take over and the General Business Police Act.

Okay, make a motion to approve the meeting minutes of April 1st and April 15th, 2026.

May I have a second? Second. And Brockelman second. As we go around, I vote yes or nay. Olivia, Mobayed. Yay. D.C. at Daglian. Yay. Ann Fullerton.

Yay.

Ann Brockelman.

Yes.

Zach Zaremba.

Yes.

and Susan Fontano. Yes. Let the record show that the minutes of April 1st and April 15th of 2026 were unanimously approved. Thank you. Next. The clerk please, under public hearings, would you make a motion?

Make a motion to continue from April 15, 2026 to June 17, 2026, 92R, Orchard Street. That's three cases, ZP24000078. ZP25-000041 ZP25-000042

May I have a second on the continuance, please? Second. Who was that? I can't see you. Cicia. Cicia. Thank you, Cicia. All in favor again, please say yay or nay. I have Ann Fullerton. Sisia Daglian, Anne Brockelman, Zach Zaremba, Olivia Mobayed, and Susan Fontano. Let the record show in the matter of 92R Orchard Street, it is approved 100% until June 17, 2026. Now under our current business, our active stock for tonight, would the clerk please go with 29 Windsor Street. It's a little different than the agenda, but would you open that up, please?

Okay, open up 29A, Windsor Road, case number ZP260000007. Claire, Grace, and Sasha Krushnik seek to leave from SCO 2-4 Thresh, Greed, DV, in order to install a heat pump that is less than two feet from a side property line.

Thank you very much. The parties here are the planner for this case is, where am I here? Leslie, Lexi. Hi, Lex. Hey, you're actually playing me? Oh, it's Madison? Oh, I gotta do my arrows. I knew this. I'm gonna make sure you guys are paying attention here. So, Miss Anthony, you can stay on board with us. Is Kit going to run for us tonight? Who's here and who's not and stuff like that?

Susan, this is Kit. I just promoted Sasha Krushnik to panelist. and just if the applicant could let us know if there's anyone else who should be promoted.

I'm here for Windsor Road.

Can you hear me now?

Yes, and who might you be?

I'm Sasha Krushnick.

Okay, yes, I see you, yes. Yay!

So tell us, what are you going to do? So the only place we could agree upon or realistically fit it is kind of near the other ones and it's encroaching in the side setback. It's a typical compact space and the amount of backyard is very small and so to put it right in the middle would be an offense to everyone. I talked to my neighbors about it whose fence it's now less than two feet from I think I think they're able to squeeze it back to eight inches or something like that maybe a foot it's in the document um It's kind of at the back corner of the house opposite the garage. It's not visible from the street. Both the renter and the owner who live next door are happy with it. And all my neighbors agree.

By any chance, do you have a way of showing us your plan, floor plan, yard plan?

You don't have access to that. It's all in the CitizenServe. There's probably 15 documents in there.

Okay. All right. Is there anybody from the public that would like to speak?

This is Kit. If you would like to speak regarding this application, please raise your hand and you'll be given two minutes to do so. I do not see anyone with their hand raised currently.

Okay, well it's 6.08. We'll keep it open for a little while and we'll go to the board. Anybody want to comment? Question this. What do you think, folks? Anne Brockelman.

Clarification question. Either staff or the applicant. Page three of the staff report. So you need two feet and it says that here the heat pump is proposed to be placed nine feet from the side lot line.

That must have been a typo. It must have meant to say nine inches.

Oh, I was confused on that too, Ann. Thank you.

So two feet is required, and you have nine inches. Is that correct? Yes. Thank you.

Do you find the documents there?

Yes.

When we tried to troubleshoot other options, it requires running the conduit sort of Over my neighbor's deck railings or onto their window trim and then it has further issues that it has to travel farther and it's already close to the manufacturer's line length distance limit and the efficiency of the unit declines as the distance between the indoor and outdoor unit so the neighbors aren't happy with it it would have to traverse their window trim um and the efficiency would drop and it would also impact everybody's backyard. So

uh that's that's all I'm remembering there might be some other reasons in there if you have the documents that we it's been it's been a minute

Zach Zaremba.

I have a question for the planning board. Did the neighbors submit anything like a written letter confirming that they're okay with this? Maybe I missed it.

This is Kit. Sorry, this is Kit. Public comments usually come to the zoning board email and I did not receive anything. Madison, I don't know if you have more information.

Yeah, I... Oh, sorry, I haven't received anything either. Sorry.

Okay. It seems like a pretty reasonable request. I just want to ensure that it's not going to be too noisy and disruptive to... Be a butter, because it's going to be so close to their poverty. And you also said in your narrative that the decibel, the noise decibel level is above The maximum threshold so I just don't want this to become where whoever's living there is going to suddenly have to hear and feel the wishing the heat pump vibrations from that.

As they get older they get noisier. Because I have one next door to me.

My neighbor Rita usually picks up. We could try calling her. I could also dig up the email chain in which I talk to her and her tenant. and try to provide a screenshot, although I'm not a tech whiz.

What other options did you have to heat your home?

It currently has a wood stove and baseboard electric.

And this is the third floor? Correct. That you wanted this floor. What are the, is that your, what's on the first and second floor?

Condominiums.

And how are they getting heat? With the heat pumps, right?

The first floor is all electric. The second floor has a gas furnace and a heat pump for air conditioning. They are both... We're four and seven feet from the proposed location. They're all in a row, not right on top of each other, so they don't have an efficiency drop. They're in the obvious order. Only practical place on the lot. And so this is the next most usable place. It's already moving towards the backyard. Should we try to... Can you call somebody from a Zoom? Should we try Rita? Does one of you want to try Rita?

No.

The neighbor?

No, this is not a shout out. This is a meeting that was scheduled and people are supposed to ring in like they should to help out you.

I didn't want to put them out by asking them to come.

Well, you should have. You should have. because they're the ones that have to listen to this stuff and tolerate it and look at it you know um uh Did you find the sitemap? Excuse me. Zach, Zaremba, please.

Just as an aside, if we do approve this, we need to establish exactly how the hardship variance criteria is fulfilled, which is the circumstances of the land, the financial hardship, and... the lack of detriment to the public so one it would be helpful if you just very clearly articulate that for us and two and i'm Leading towards approving it if that's the case, but I would also recommend that maybe we just continue this to the next meeting ready to approve if we get... A signed letter from the abutter confirming that they're aware of this and that they're approved this. Because that's really the main issue here, I think.

I think that's good. We have something. Even if... you know the applicant does a little shout out say gee whiz nobody called or anything so the board only could take my word for it we need you know like we need more media than that you know not doubting you But it's by the record, you know. Hatch appearances are a big deal. you know Madison did you folks excuse me Madison did you folks discuss other options for the applicant for instead of a heat pump or where to put it it's not a flat roots house right

So my understanding is the roof is not flat.

I know.

I can pull up a picture on Google Images if you want to take a look at it, but it's a pitched roof.

Yeah, no, I wouldn't even consider that. I know that some places allow it. I think that's not good. It's, you know, aesthetically it's not good. I don't think it's safe. I think in time it's going to wear out. You know, it's just not going to be good. Yes, sir.

Just my tenant who is living there now. I used to live in this apartment and we moved for my wife's job and it's rented out now and he's here in the meeting. If you'd like to hear from him, he's happy to share. you know it with electric baseboard um and and or window air boxes it gets a little pricey so that's the main hardship is that the efficiency would be increased and the cost of the install would be sorry the efficiency would be decreased I don't know if my neighbors would allow it and then it wouldn't save as much money because the efficiency would drop. It's not a huge difference but it's If you did what? I don't totally understand the physics of it, but as the line length between the indoor unit and the outdoor unit increase, the efficiency of the unit goes down, so your heating bill goes up.

and that's one of the factors yeah so that's a small but notable financial hardship and the other one is I don't think my neighbors would let me do it and push the point But they were very down on the idea of it being in the middle of the backyard or somewhere around the edge of the downstairs neighbor's deck. So there's two significant challenges there.

Who's the one that's going to be the inches, the nine inches from Rita?

I'd have to look up her last name, but it's Rita. She's very nice.

You've spoken to her.

I did. I could dig up the email chain, but I'm not sure I'll figure out how to share it with you.

Yeah, okay. I'm going to go with what Zach said. I'm going to go with Zach's recommendation. Let's, if everybody's... I want to hear anybody else's comment before we break away. But also, yeah, go ahead, Olivia.

I was just going to request if you are able to provide an image that shows where the other units already are. Because based on the image that I'm viewing, I don't see those and that seems like context, which is probably helpful in establishing hardship and understanding why it's placed exactly where it is in the proposal. I was also curious if you have any documentation from the other condo owners in the unit agreeing to this location?

Also before the applicant answers, I was going to ask Madison Anthony, does she have anything other than what was on the packet that we looked at? Right now I'm only down on one screen. I don't have my other screen tonight. Is that something that we have now or is that something we can ask the applicant to get for the next meeting?

We only have a narrative and the plot plan that I showed you. Yeah, I saw that.

That's it. Okay. Anne Brockelman?

Yes, I just I'd like to second what Member Mobayed said. Usually we have a page of photos which thoroughly describes what you've verbally described to us, or we do a site visit. which I haven't had a chance to so photo documentation of the existing conditions right now for the record so that you thoroughly describe existing and then what you're asking for and It will probably be obvious right through the photos, the hardship and the difficulty. I think the plot plan is very abstract, so it's hard to tell.

Thank you. Madison, do me a favor. The applicant, are you able to take notes on what we're asking you for?

Yes.

You should be doing that. Because we're going to break away. We're going to continue the meeting. And I know you were asked for like two or three things already. Madison, have you kept track of what we're looking for?

So you're looking for photos?

Yeah.

And a letter from the neighbor. And a letter from the condo neighbors.

right and also Olivia what was the couple of items you had That should cover that.

I was curious for the condo owners of your building, if you have any written agreement with them

And a Butters. And a Butters I'd like to add.

And a Butters. And then also, I think the photos would be the most helpful. It doesn't need to be an update of the... Actual plan that you shared just showing the context and where the existing units are.

Beautiful and I think we're on track with what you have right what you'd like. Cece did you have your hand up?

I did at one point, but I think it was covered. I mean, generally, we live on pretty tight lots in Somerville. I've had similar issues with condensers on my property. They're very hard to fit in and hard to fit in in a way that makes sense mechanically. I understand the line set distance issue. and also just not wanting to leave line sets exposed in the you know inclement weather um and get it as close to the building as possible um So I often feel that the zoning ordinance is unnecessarily strict with mechanical equipment.

Thank you so much for joining us. So I think that this extra level of detail that is being asked for is, you know, I think good for a variance to make sure we, you know, dot our I's and cross our T's. That's it.

Thank you. Zach, did we cover everything you suggested?

Yes, I think we did.

Okay. I think we've got everything here that I need. Except that I want to pick up something Cesia said, and I mentioned it earlier. Right next door to us, when they got this old house down and made three condos out of it, they ended up, they never notified us of it. They put the condenser. It's in where a window was. The element, the heating and cooling is in where this big, huge window used to be. And I guess the equipment's behind it. It's not in the yacht. and it was noisy to begin with and over the years now as they get older they they make a lot more noise and it's so close the houses two houses so close here uh that it's a

that's a bedroom in our house and you hear the vibration and the noise and there's not even a window in that room on that wall so that's why I'm I understand that maybe it's it's and all these other reasons we do as a consumer. But I don't think it's good that a consumer has to you don't want to spend extra money to get the prop you know other equipment that there are options out there they might cost more but they're out there so without further ado is it okay with everybody now we're going to Continue the meeting. Madison and Kit, when can the client expect to get on the agenda for the continuance?

Let's see. We would need any materials. Let me think here.

If it's just photos and the letter, I don't think ISD needs to review anything. So I think A week before the next hearing whenever they're going is a reasonable deadline for materials?

June 3rd is currently pretty open if the applicant thinks that they can get the materials within the next week.

Yes, sir. I can get the materials. I already have in email threads the agreement from all the nearby neighbors and building owners. And I already have all the photographs. And I'm wondering if there's someone among you or someone who you would want to entrust to review these documents and perhaps approve them without another meeting? Somebody just say, yes, there is no objection. The photos do show that this is where the other condensers are. And we've heard from all the neighbors. No. Okay.

No.

Okay. So when's the next meeting? Do we know?

We know it's June 3rd, which means you'd have to get everything in by what date? Can I have a date please Kit? May 27th. You think you can do that?

No problem. beautiful all right if everybody writes back I can definitely yeah get all you can especially the one that's really a signed letter or a notarized letter what do I need to do here

Just a letter from them, a little note. Who they are, where they live, and they have no problem.

Should they send that directly to you or to me and I forward it? How should we do this?

Well, if you can get them all and bring them right up to City Hall, we have Madison, how would you like that?

I would, we only accept material uploaded to CitizenServe. So what I would do is just save it as a PDF, however you can, and then upload it to CitizenServe.

This is Kit. The NEA Butter can also email zoningboard at Summervillema.gov to provide written public testimony as well. So either upload it to CitizenServe or have the abutter email the zoning board email directly.

Could you give me that email one more time?

Yep, it's zoningboard at somervillema.gov Got it.

Okay. Okay. And if you're having any difficulties and you forgot, call the office or whatever, or email them and let them know you need it so you'll have it for the meeting, okay?

Yes. Thank you all.

You're welcome. All right, let's wait a minute. Hold on one minute, Zach. I'm going to make a motion to continue it until June 3rd, please. Hold on. The applicant, please hold on.

All right, I make a motion to continue 24 Berkeley Street, ZP26-00, I'm sorry, 29A Windsor Road, ZP26-00007. to the next ZBA meeting on June 3rd, 2026. Second.

Seconded by Anne Brockelman. All in favor, please say aye. I have... Obey? Yes. Cecilia? Yes. Zach?

Yes.

And Brockelman?

Yes.

Susan Fontano? Yes. Let the record show that all zoning members sitting right now voted in the affirmative for the June 3rd meeting. Okay, sir. Good luck. Thank you. Cheers. Now the next item, Mr. Clerk.

We open the case for 24 Berkeley Street, ZP26-000037. Thomas Hickman seeks an administrative appeal of the building official's issuance. The building permits be B25-001643 and B25-001644. 1644, great.

Okay, and this is... This case is Lexi's. Get that right this time. This is Kate.

We've got Lexi in the attendees category. It's not letting me promote her to panelist. So she's able to unmute and talk as needed, but you probably won't be able to see her, but she's here and she can talk.

Another glitch, huh?

Okay.

Hi Lexi! Hi, I'm here, sorry. That's alright, you're just shy girl, we know the truth. Yeah, I'm being shy. So tell me, is your applicant here tonight?

If I could have the applicant and the applicant and their team. Oh, Tom is here. Okay. I'm going to be a list. All right. The applicant should be rejoining shortly.

Hello, can you see and hear me?

Yes, you are. Beautiful. Welcome.

Thank you.

So tell us what you're trying to do tonight. Sure.

I've got some slides. Can I present some slides?

Yes. Can you assist us with that, Kit?

Yep, you should be all set to share slides now.

Okay, just to give a brief intro. I live at 23 Avon Street.

Elm Street?

23 Avon Street.

Okay, slow down a little bit, all right? Thank you.

Sorry. Yep, I'll slow down. Okay. I live at 23 Avon Street. I have a 1.5-story barn in my backyard. It's located about 1.6 feet from the rear lot line. This is a very old building that has existed probably since the house was built, but at least since 1900. The building is currently used for vehicular parking, as a workshop, for storage and as a home gym. So recently, the property owner at 24 Berkeley Street, which is the house, or I should say the lot, directly behind my lot, began to construct a backyard cottage pursuant to Section 3-112 of the zoning ordinance.

The wall of that under construction backyard cottage as measured parallel to the northern edge of the barn at 23 Avon Street is about 6.5 feet away from from my barn. So those are the facts. I'll show you some pictures of the barn. So here's what it looks like from the front. You can see that it's got a story on the bottom and a hat story on the top. This is it from the side. You can see that there's a fence. That's my back fence. And you can see that the under construction backyard cottage is there.

and there's just another picture and like you can see that that's the distance between the the barn on my property on the right and then I mean you can't tell exactly where the lot line is but there's a there's a fence back there You can see if you are looking along the edge of the barn on my property, you can see that it's going straight back to where that backyard cottage is. Let's see. So that's just showing how close it is to the law line. And this is sort of standing and you can see there under construction cottage and how close that is. So I'm actually going to... Yep. Well, actually, I'll go ahead and talk about this. So the zoning ordinance requires that a backyard cottage, which is an accessory building...

must be at least 10 feet away from any other principal or accessory building. and so these are the plans you know they're saying oh yes the building separation here is 10.1 feet they measured it from the Backyard Cottage to the principal building on this lot, which is just the main house on this lot. It's 10.1 feet away. I don't dispute that. And you can sort of see here's the Backyard Cottage at the top is my lot. My barn is not pictured here, but if it were, you would see that it would kind of overlap at the upper left corner there. So here, this is... Sort of a screen capture from the Somerville GIS site.

So I measured the distance between those two points to try to show... You know, there's that distance there, 27.28 feet. And then, you know, this is sort of an approximate approximation of what that backyard cottage could look like. So the distance from the side setback of the cottage is five feet and the cottage is 24 feet wide. and so it measures 29 feet to that edge from our perspective on the right. and so you can see that there's an overlap there of 1.7 feet approximately and then you can see there if like you sort of measure the 1.6 feet you know from my barn to the rural outlying plus the five feet setback from the rear lot line on their property. That is 6.6 feet.

Here are some measurements that I did on the ground. And you can see that, you know, the tip measure is showing there about 75 and a half inches. My tip measure is about three and a quarter inches wide. So it's like 678 centimeters. So that's about six and a half feet. And it's pretty much bang on with what it looks like from the rendering. This is a measurement that I did before they poured the concrete for it. So the forms are set up and measured it from the forms. And so that's the first time that I kind of noticed that there might be an issue here is when they put up the forms. I noticed that there was some overlap there. and so this is just showing that if you find number 23 Avon Street it's kind of small which you can see my house there and then you can see the

um you know the rendering from farm so this is the Sanborn map from 1900 just to sort of illustrate that this building has been there a very long time um So my position is that the barn on my property is regulated by the Somerville Zoning Ordinance as an accessory building of the backyard cottage type. and that it's not an accessory structure as I don't want to say defined by the ordinance but as the ordinance would discuss. um for that reason uh it receives the building separation treatment in the ordinance from other principal and accessory buildings um on their own and abutting lots um

And so for this reason, you know, the under construction backyard cottage, you know, needs to respect the building separation distance, which is 10 feet, including on abutting lots. And so that 6.5 or 6.6 foot distance between the barn and the new backyard cottage at 24 Bertha Street violates that building separation distance clause because it's less than the 10 foot minimum. So I wrote an email to ISD when I noticed this issue. And this is just the response that I got from them. The important thing here is that they're referring to this as an accessory structure in that second paragraph, I guess the only sentence in the last paragraph there.

They refer to the building on my lot as an accessory structure. I don't believe that's correct. and so for that reason they're saying that it doesn't need to respect the 10 foot distance and that like you know the fire code you know would be the only thing that would sort of govern The minimum distance between the two structures. So the The planning board appears to agree with that today. The 10-foot separation in Somerville is SCO 3.1.12 is not applicable to accessory structures which include but are not limited to structures such as garages, chicken coops, pergolas, gazebos, and pools. I disagree with that assertion and I'll go into why.

um let's see oh yeah I think even more specifically um so ISD didn't say this in particular um but um PPZ said that they are classifying my barn as an outbuilding as defined in the zoning ordinance. So here is the definition for an outbuilding in the zoning ordinance. So I just want you to know that it says that an outbuilding may be up to 12 feet in height. So, you know, this is something that PPC noticed, sort of noted too, but Section 231A establishes that there are three exclusive categories. So it's got to be a principal category. or an accessory building or an accessory structure.

The rear building is not a principal building, so it's either an accessory building or an accessory structure. And so, which one of these is it? We can't just pick one. We have to make a decision based on the standards that define these two things. The barn... on my property satisfies every dimensional standard that defines a backyard cottage so the floor paint is within the maximum The number of stories is within the maximum. The story height, the roof type, it's a gable roof. The dwelling units, it has zero dwelling units. That's within the maximum of one.

And the use of it is one of the defined typical uses in the zoning ordinance, which is vehicular parking. It conforms to the front setback. It does not obviously conform to the rear setback, which is minimum three feet or the side setback. I acknowledge that. Um... So if you sort of look at it from the light of an accessory structure, the barn fails, you know, as an outbuilding accessory structure, the barn fails that category's defining dimensional standards. It's more than 12 feet high. The Accessory Structures section is discussing single-story structures.

The largest, I should say the tallest accessory structure and any of the categories of accessory structures is 12 feet. It's a 1.5 store building and it's just not within a framework that the accessory structure category addresses. If we try to categorize it as a non-conforming outbuilding, you know, the... The term outbuilding accessory structure would become meaningless. I mean, you could define anything really that's you know a 10-foot high parking or sorry a 10-story high parking garage could be defined as an outbuilding so you know something that exceeds that um exceeds the height as defined in the ordinance. I don't think we can divide it as an outbuilding or as an accessory structure.

So this is just sort of an overview of... The conformities and non-conformities for the three different types. So on the left there, you have the outbuildings. This is just sort of summarizing what I've already said. um you know the height it violates the height violates the setbacks but it conforms for all of the um dimensional and definitional sort of characteristics or standards for a backyard cottage. Of course, it doesn't have the right setbacks, but I don't think that's relevant because it's a grandfathered-in, non-conforming backyard cottage as defined in the ordinance. Okay, I'll keep going. So I have here a video that just demonstrates the height of the structure.

Would you like me to play that or? Is that appropriate?

Go ahead.

Yeah. This is just me with a tape measure. So I've got it at sort of the apex of the building there and I'll pause it here. This is not super scientific there, but you can see the tape measures at 190 inches, and it's not at the top of the building there. It's at sort of the underside. of the roof of the eaves I guess and it's not even actually really on the ground there because I've got a ladder back there so 190 inches is um 180 inches is 15 feet 109 inches 15 feet 10 inches I think there's probably another foot there so I think the building is close to 17 feet in height. If we need to... To get more exact about that, I think it's about 17 feet.

So that's the number that I've put into this presentation. But if there's some dispute there, we can talk about that. But the important thing is that it significantly exceeds the 12 feet height of an accessory structure or of an outbuilding accessory structure type. Accessory structures are not defined explicitly in the ordinance, even though accessory buildings are. So if we're going to define something as an accessory structure, we have to pick one of the types. there's no language describing other types of accessory structures that are sort of outside of the sort of enumerated list of accessory structure types and so these are things like pergolas gazebos

um composters things like that and then you know outbuilding is sort of a in some sense a catch-all um and i think for that reason because it's a catch-all it you have to fit the dimensional standards of it So if you have a pre-existing building that doesn't fit in a set, it's not an accessory structure. The definition of accessory building that is defined in the ordinance. A building or structure designed, used, or occupied in relation to the principal uses of a given lot, which is what this building is. It's much more general and it does... admit the barn of 23 Avon Street. So if we're looking at two different possible classifications, you know, it fits the defining standards of one, the Becker cottage, and exceeds the defining bounds of the other.

and they both would carry the same placement non-conformities you know they need to be at least three frequent lot lines but it doesn't satisfy that uh so the classification that fits is a backyard cottage accessory building um So the rear building fits within the sort of the written definition of a backyard cottage. So it's like, you know, it could have a dwelling unit. Home Occupational Playhouse for Children or Vehicular Parking. We use it for vehicular parking as well as a home gym. I think these are In my mind, this sort of fits very well into the definition for a backyard cottage. So there's a recent meeting where the...

The difference between accessory building and accessory structure was discussed by ISD. And so Mr. Mannion from the building department said accessory structures are generally outbuildings, garages, things that you wouldn't consider to be a habitable space or be used for a dwelling unit. So the barn at 23 Avon Street is used for habitable space in addition to vehicular storage or parking. It's used as a workshop space. It's used as a home gym. It's got a second floor with a drywall, residential fine windows, and molded baseboards. And so I think that even ISD's own interpretation of the ordinance The Barn at 23 Evans Street would not be classified as an accessory structure. I think that's what he said there. And if it's not an accessory structure, it has to be an accessory building. So the memo from PPZ, I've quoted it here.

It says, There was... So B-17-00-1896 was a permit that was pulled for doing... A renovation on the first floor of the house on the lot. The plans for that permit included the garage building in the plans, incidentally, even though there was no work done on the garage. you know as part of that permitted work um and so I don't think that's relevant to be honest another reason that I don't think that's relevant is that this permit is from 2017 which is before the Current zoning code regime was in force in 2019.

The zoning code in 2017 did not define accessory structures or accessory buildings or backyard cottages. And so I don't think that any word that was used on a plan for that permit application should be have any bearing on how this structure is being classified? And even if it were, even if you considered the building on 23 Evans Street to be a garage, the term garage is not defined in the Somerville Zoning Ordinance. If we were to sort of define a garage as we might in common parlance, an enclosed building used for vehicular storage. That is, in fact, a defined typical use of an accessory building, a backyard cottage, as it's defined in the current zoning ordinance.

Not a backyard cottage, but an accessory building, sorry. and in fact in the current iteration of the zoning ordinance you know there's a there's a sub-bullet that says refers to the installation of accessory buildings such as the Ross's so The current zoning ordinance seems to contemplate that garages are accessory buildings. So all that's an aside. I think the garage thing is irrelevant. But even if you did consider it to be a garage, I don't think that implies that it's an accessory structure rather than an accessory building. And so this is just a screenshot of that particular permit. And here's like, you know, the lower right there is the bar. And here's like a zoomed in It says 23 Yvonne Street, garage, existing, no proposed work.

Okay, and then another sentence that I saw in the PPZ staff memo, we would need to find to file building permits to convert the existing outbuilding into a backyard cottage which would then need to comply with all the minimum type of requirements to trigger building separation distance. I don't think that's right. The classification of a structure is determined by what the zoning ordinance says, not by permits. You know, this is a very old building. You don't need to file for a permit to turn it into an accessory building or... or Backyard Cottage. It's the characteristics of the building that define what it is rather than what permits that you pulled. It presupposes that it's an outbuilding by asserting that. I don't think that's correct.

Okay, let's keep going. There was a very similar hearing that occurred on May 17, 2023 in front of this board. There was somebody, the owner of 21 Francesca Avenue, they had a They called it a carriage house, barn or carriage house in their backyard. And ISD had classified it as an outbuilding accessory structure. They made an administrative appeal saying that no, it's not an accessory structure, it's a backyard cottage. That's the same thing I'm doing today.

so they you know they're it's the same framework um same position by ISD um same dimensional issue that the barn or carriage house in their case exceeded the height limit of the defined outbuilding 12 feet so it exceeded 12 feet by a lot and the outcome of that Appeal was that the board upheld the appeal overturning ISD in a unanimous decision classifying it as a backyard cottage. And so this is just a quote from the minutes of that meeting. The character of the building more closely resembling an accessory building, the character of the building as a whole does not sufficiently match the definition of an accessory structure. The building emissions are more appropriate to an accessory building. That's all. I'll go into some more detail here. So this was the PPZ staff memo from that case.

Any existing building might present some nonconformities for the building type for which it is currently classified. ISD must classify any building, including nonconforming ones, to the closest applicable building type category that applies to the on-the-ground conditions. And so because you did not make a recommendation for or against to the board in this particular case. So these are the dimensions and setbacks of the building and the Francesca case. So the setbacks were much less than they required. The building separation was too low from the principal building, I think. uh no not to the principal building but some other structure on that lot um just the overall size of the building was was larger um

Sorry, these are the requirements for a backyard cottage. I didn't make that clear. These are the requirements for a backyard cottage. And so this building, in fact, exceeded many of... The dimensional standards for a backyard cottage. And so it's too large. Didn't have the right building separation. It's too large both in height as well as in maximum floor plate. Didn't have the right type of roof because it has a hip roof instead of a gable or flat roof, which is what the backyard cottage defines. and so if we kind of compare the 21 Francesca carriage house with the barn of 23 Avon we can see that Barn 23 Avon does fit within the dimensional standards of a backyard cottage.

And so even in the case that the... you know that this building didn't seem to fit either category in some sense right you know in this case like you might have argued either way right it's accessory structure you know doesn't fit accessory structure doesn't fit backyard cottage Which one is it? It didn't fit backyard cottage, yet the board still decided to classify it as a backyard cottage. and so in this case it does fit within the character standards the dimensional standards of a backyard cottage and so in my mind it's even more clear-cut that the building at 23 Avon Street would be classified as a backyard cottage accessory building regardless of whether it meets the side and rear setbacks.

Excuse me, Mr. Hayden. Can I ask you a question? Sure. All these comparisons you're giving us to your quad at your backyard pond. Yeah. Why? Why aren't you telling us more about what's Going in that's offending you.

The reason I'm doing that is because I think that if I can show that my building is an accessory building, then it's very, very clear What action the board should take? And I finished my case for that. I will now move on to the rest of it, which is much, much shorter. I haven't been wasting people's time or boring people. I think I've probably got two or three minutes left.

Okay, because I'm thinking, what did you say the building of yours was, 1900?

It's from before 1900, but it's at least 1900.

Exactly. So it's non-conforming, pre-existing. Yeah. That's what I'm looking at. and so I felt that all of this I didn't want to interrupt you and I don't know what the rest of the board's thinking but please continue but I'd like to see more comparison of what you're trying to tell us these people what their building is wrong yeah okay well here we go you know I think here we go right right

So the building commissioner determined that the building separation provision in the zoning ordinance was preempted by the building code. That's not right because it's an accessory building and the building code says that you cannot build a backyard cottage accessory building You know, too close to another principal or accessory building, including on an abutting lots. And so the building code does not preempt the Somerville zoning ordinance. in this case. And the zoning ordinance itself says that if There's some other governing standard that is less restrictive than the zoning code. The zoning code governs. And so there's no preemption here. The zoning ordinance unambiguously requires a 10-foot building separation distance from buildings on abutting lots.

I think this is just very clear. If you consider the barn on 23 Elm Street to be an accessory building, it clearly violates the 10-foot building separation. and this is just actually sort of a wordy way of saying what I did before if the provision of the ordinance imposes a greater restriction than required by other ordinances regulations including the building code then the building code would would override it right and so we can't just say because you know there's a three feet um Just because the building code says three feet for bioregulations or whatever, the 10-foot building separation provision still would override it. And so the plans, as I showed before, clearly didn't evaluate the building separation to the accessory building on my lot.

because they measured it as 10.1 feet and in fact in the email itself they said the representative from ISD said that it appears Thank you. I think that's it. The building permit is invalid. I hope the board will consider my case.

Thank you very much. It was a good presentation. It was very thorough. But that's what I was wondering. That was my only interruption. So I'm going to ask staff if there's anybody from the public that came out tonight. that would like to weigh in on this situation?

Looks like we've got one hand raised and I believe this is the property owner. Correct me if I'm wrong, Chair Fontano, but I believe we don't do the timer for the property owner and they're allowed to state their case as well without the two-minute timer. Okay, that's fine. Okay, I'm going to promote them to panelists and Madison, I think. Okay, perfect. Hold on. Okay, I've promoted Paul Fombell and he should be joining us shortly.

Good evening.

Hello.

Welcome. I'm Paul Funbell. I'm the owner, and this is my wife, Gina. She is the co-owner, but also the general contractor on the project. Right. And so... Honestly, I don't have a whole lot prepared. We did not get full notice this was even happening until last week. But I would like to say that we worked for months with both zoning and ISD to talk through all this. The permitting process in Somerville is very rigorous. And we spoke through a lot of these questions early on with Josh Manium and everyone at ISD and Zoning. So we went back and forth for several months and making sure that we were in compliance with all of the ordinances. We were issued the permits in December. We have now on site have a, as you can see, a full building. We had a foundation.

which was certified with an as-built and submitted to the city for their records and approval. It's been inspected at multiple points that we followed all of the ordinances that we were set forth to do. and are in compliance with everything according to what both ISD and zoning asked us to do. You know, one of the things that I'm The reason I'm unprepared, you know, we were not even notified as an owner of the property. We used to be an abutter on the other side. And so we got a postcard in the mail as abutters about this process. I was also not prepared for Mr. Higdon's debate over accessory structure, over accessory building. As that was not the source of his original appeal, so I have not prepared, nor have I been able to consult with legal counsel and get advice as to what I should or shouldn't be bringing to your attention.

and so if if we are debating whether his structure is an accessory building or an accessory structure an accessory structure is what Both ISD and planning categorize it as in our permitting process, but we in good faith accepted that classification. If it is a matter of debate that we can now reclassify his building I may need to request a continuous so I can prepare a more thorough presentation. Counter, counter debate, you know, because I am not prepared for that. That was not something that was in his original paper filing of the, you know, it was an accessory structure according to what ISD told us. And if we need to move forward, I would request a continuance so I can adequately prepare.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Is there anybody else? Is that the only hand that was up from the public portion? We're gonna leave it open. But I just don't want to move to the board these folks.

This is Kit. If you would like to speak about this application, please raise your hand and you will be given two minutes to do so.

ZBA If you have a question or a comment, you can raise your hand, please. Anne Brockelman?

Just some clarification questions to establish some facts to make sure we're understanding. Properly, the appellant's packet is very thorough. I'm looking at the 18-page one with the permit drawings, I believe. Yeah. Did someone pull that up? Mr. Higdon, are you able to?

The original packet?

Yes, the

the permit which contains the permit drawing so I believe staff has it as well yeah I can I can pull that up I can share my screen again um and just give me one second

They're at the end, right? The large sheet at the end. Okay, let me find it.

Is this what you're talking about?

The large format drawings at the very end.

Oh, okay. So there's a... There's a doc that has some of that stuff in it. I don't have that right here at my fingertips. But I do have the drawing in the presentation that I just did. And so I can show...

Yes. This is Kit. Mr. Higdon, if you go to reports and decisions on the city's website, you'll be able to show exactly What the board was sent and I believe it's just the materials you submitted that were then combined and if you scroll down you'll see 24 Berkeley Street application. Yeah.

Yeah, the very end.

Now go down.

17 or 18.

Okay, here we are.

Yes, go to the property. Either one, middle...

the back of the property um sorry sorry if uh okay is this maybe the next one yes can you this the one here yep can you blow that one up I'm blowing it up.

That's 17.

Yeah, this is 17. Yeah. And we're looking at the bottom, which is the rear of 24th Street.

Can you make that bigger? Yes. So the foundation in your photos, is that the light well there or the...

So this is, this appears to be, yeah, this appears to be the proposed under, I guess it's not proposed anymore, the under construction backyard cottage.

But what you're measuring, is that a light well?

What's a light well?

Move your cursor down to below the gray. Sorry. The gray of the cottage.

Yeah.

Right below that.

Yeah.

Go further left.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that a light well? or a bulkhead dugout? Maybe the property. I don't know the answer to that. Is that what's being poured?

I can ask a question if that's helpful.

Gina, Formel. Go ahead. What is that?

That is an area way for some basement windows.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Or it's your emergency egress, probably. for those basement windows yes yeah okay so um my other sort of related question is there was a 10.1 um foot Which the appellant referred to, is it also in these documents? And what is that measured between which two structures?

It's between the primary structure on our lot and the cottage on our lot.

It's 10 foot how much? So that's not across the lot line? No.

We were not required to have a five building and zoning when we did this to have 10 feet from the neighboring structures. So we don't show that.

Understood. I guess I might be misunderstanding but I thought the appellant was saying that something noted 10.1 but it's Not as Bill. It may be on that. I don't mean a requirement. I actually mean it was in some chart of yours saying compliance.

I can pull that up if you'd like. I don't know if that particular page of the plans is in this document. I can pull up that chart that I think that you're referring to.

I'm just trying to make sure it's relevant or not relevant. Yes, what is this building separation? So that's between both buildings within your lot. Is that what the font bells are saying?

Yes, that is.

Okay. So between your principal structure and what you're building. yes okay I was I thought somehow it related to the appellant thank you sorry about that that's just you know how you set your new backyard cottage um If you go back to that first, the plan we were talking about. And you're saying your barn is how far from the property line?

1.6 feet approximately.

1.6 and then? If you go to page 18, the next page, so that's the surveyed. of what's there now, correct?

I don't know. I'm not familiar with this document. This was not a...

Yes, I see it now. Thank you. As well, plot plan. So can you zoom in more? It's 5.1. The back of your cottage is 5.1. So the survey, it sounds like the light wall is not included, right? It's the actual structure.

Yes, we are told that that just needs to be less than six inches above grade and it can be within the ground.

So 5.2, so the requirement would be double that, right, if you were to comply?

if his building is an accessory building but we were told it was an accessory structure so got it That's why we were told it did not have to have the 10-foot distance.

I understand. Thank you. And I'm also noting that there's actually a very small overlap between the two. Right. they're not really facing each other they're kind of diagonal from each other those are my questions for now madam chair thank you I'm happy to have others great Thank you.

Chair Fontano, this is Kit. I believe Lexi would like to say something, but she's having trouble raising her hand.

Okay.

Hi.

Hi.

Hi. So, it seems like there was some additional information added to the presentation that the appellant had um so preferably Thank you for watching! like hopefully the property owner also ISD wasn't able to attend tonight so if we have any zoning compliance specific questions that would have to go towards them but um everything that ISD said about the case specifically was put into the memo that I wrote up and Josh um

added quotes and an explanation and helped me write that out so anything he would say is in there but if there are any questions outside of the memo he would have it would have to be continued and he would have to come to the next meeting to answer them

Okay, thank you. Sorry, thank you. No, I'm glad you weighed in. And so where is everybody on the board here? Can you remove this screen, Mr. Higdon, so I can see the regular board members? Thank you. Does anybody else have questions? I didn't have everybody's vision in front of me. No. Yes. Olivia.

Thank you, Chair Fontano. I have a question that Probably would be something ISD would have to answer. I am curious if the property at 23 Avon would be able to successfully categorize their barn as a backyard cottage for the purposes of actually like using it for for the purposes like for doing anything like like actually turning it into like a a Place of residence or a dwelling. And the reason I ask that is because, you know, I'm just looking at Google But I see how close it is to the primary building at 21 Avon.

And I'm curious if its proximity to a primary building has any influence on the ability for it to be considered a backyard cottage.

Okay, so that's a question for ISD, you're passing along. Yes, please. Thank you. Okay, and so Madison, where's Madison? Who's doing this now? I'm like all messed up here. So Lexi, did you make a note of that, please? Yes. All right. Anybody else? Well, let me put it to you this way. You don't seem to have a lot of questions. Were you folks ready to vote tonight?

I do have some more questions.

Good. All right. Excuse me, Ed. Zach, were you ready to vote tonight?

No, I'm not. I would want to hear a little bit more information from ISD.

All right, so that's where I'm getting at.

I think what I'm struggling with a little bit.

I need some more time to digest. What we've heard tonight, the papers I have, I make copies of, and of course there's more on the download, okay?

I think I would just want more information as to why the barn could be considered an accessory building because beyond the height that was shared with us, there's more to it. that what would change the use type and it would right I believe it would have to go through a different permitting process outside of this case so it'll be beyond what we're really looking at in front of me which is to deny or uphold ISD's decision to consider this an accessory structure and therefore the minimum 10 fee is not applicable. So I feel like we're being asked to basically change the use type to an accessory building, which is not, I believe, something we really can do right now.

Okay. Can I mean, I don't know if it's appropriate for me to speak up.

Not just yet. I'm listening to, I think we've heard enough from you for right now. Okay. I want to know what they have to say. Okay. Okay. It doesn't look like we're voting tonight.

Okay.

would you go and uh you know so if you have something to add at the next meeting we might ask you a question here and resolve it so let me just see what's going on um Sisia

Similar to Zach, I'd like to hear more from ISD, their thoughts about the classification in the building and also... to have some more time to digest the material and then also to have time for the Berkeley folks to adequately respond to the case.

Okay. Anne, go ahead. Anne Brockelman.

I mean, my question is more general and philosophical. I wonder If all property owners know what they have in their backyard, are we all running to see our sheds if that's an accessory structure or building until something comes up? which requires a lot of research and due diligence that Mr. Higdon has shown us. But it's just more a philosophical question because it's from 1910. I read that somewhere. And then I can't find it again, so if you can point that to me. But somebody noted that it's classified as an accessory structure in the 1910 permit. Is that right?

It was a, if I could add, it was on a previous building permit. Is that Madison? It's Lexi. Lexi, go ahead. Sorry. It was on a building permit. I can't remember the year whether it was 2021 or 2017 something like that but it was just classified as a structure when they got building permits to renovate Barn at 23 Avon.

So that was the structure. And renovation by Mr. Higdon or a previous owner?

That would be A question for him. I don't know that answer.

Mr. Hignan, was that in the family building in 1910?

I've owned the house for two years. The building permit that I think Lexi is referring to was old by the previous owner.

I'm just curious about the History of classification, I guess you do research into permits to see what is what you have, what is on your property. And, you know, with the new backyard cottage, how many people can renovate? Their barn or garage into a backyard cottage. And Mr. Hagen, did you know what this was? Or you had to do this research? because it was prompted by the abutter's construction.

So the accessory structure and accessory building terminology are words that are defined by the current zoning ordinance. and so you know I think if it were true let's say that the building was built you know before 1900 and even if like you could sort of if you could find you know that they're existing it's existed some zoning ordinance at that time that termed this as Maybe it was accessory structure. Even if you found that, I don't think that's necessarily relevant.

because the definitions of these terms are in the current zoning ordinance and so the current yeah okay i do agree i mean it's classified and then the classification

definition changes you know and then it's classified and then the zoning changes so kind of cart you know which cart before the horse um and then it's all is there also the um depends on ISD to also read the current code and then assign that classification at the time of each permit, right? So it's not something that exists in perpetuity because it's labeled I just find it very interesting and I appreciate all the research that you've done.

A lot of work. Mr. Higdon, what did you want to say with Zach's question? You said you might be able to answer it.

There was just one thing that was said there about whether the current barn has enough building separation between the principal building on the lot. There was a question about that. I measured that the requirement is 10 feet. There is more than 10 feet. I don't have evidence of this today, but there is more than 10 feet between the principal building on the lot and the barn.

I meant just that there's more criteria for whether or not it's going to be determined as an accessory building or structure beyond measurements like the separation between the principal Building and the structure. Yes. So I'm just saying for someone like ISD would be able to list out where we would also be looking at these three things like egress or use of the property. So I... Philosophically, we're going to be seeing, I think, a lot of these kinds of cases. That's not just you, because a lot of people want to build these. And I think... It's really important for the board to just start to get like much more specific clarity from the city, from ISD, maybe from attorneys because And I'm not saying you're doing this. I think people are going to be looking for technicalities to stop these from being built because they don't want to have added density to their property. So this was more of me just raising the question of what else we'll be looking at if we were to call your

current accessory structure and accessory building in the future if it was going to be converted to that. I've checked off a couple things there that qualify it, but it would be more terrific.

And just the short thing I would add is that this wouldn't be the first time. that the board would have taken something that ISD had determined to be an outbuilding and classified it as a backyard cottage. because 21 Francesca Avenue, the structure on that lot, the board did that three years ago.

I'll just say one little thing about that. Every single case we get is different. Yeah, very similar. And they might be come in front of us with the same questions or criteria that when we're then Dissecting the whole program like you presented now tonight for us to take all that in. Then we come back. That doesn't mean because we did it three years ago it's going to apply today. And that's even for littler things. This is major. They've got the concrete built and everything's in place. And we go by, if we find a department didn't do what they're supposed to do, We try and do what we're supposed to do. So at the end of the day, that's what we, like Mrs. Zaremba saying, we want to have some clarification. We're going to Think about everything you had to say to us.

The form bells, they'll go away and start digging out, getting their stuff ready, because we are going to continue this tonight. It wouldn't be fair. This is not a cut and dry case. We'd rather think about it. I will say this, that for the folks, the neighbors, Anything you want to present that you're going to make your case, so to speak, you have to get it into the planning department, the zoning. So that they can authorize everything and get it on here for us to be able, we have to have it in our hands, you know, the Thursday before our meeting on the Wednesday. So we got to bump everything back and give everybody time.

Thank you so much for joining us. You know, Mr. Higdon, you might want to add some stuff. And you folks, you get yours together. So I'd like to speak to Kit. Kit, are you there? Yep. What about, I think the board wants a continuance, and I think the neighbors do, and I'm sure Mr. Higdon is fine with that because he might have some more stuff to clarify to us. Would they have to get everything to you guys so that you can get it to us for whatever meeting?

Are we talking... Yeah, for something like this, I think because... because this would require review by ISD, law, all of those departments need materials at least two weeks in advance

Yeah, so we can skip the third.

We would request even more than that, yeah.

Okay, let's see what's going on. I will say just a general note is that the hearing for the 17th, there are a few things that are going on that night already. Is it? Yep. Then we're talking July 1st. And I believe you don't have a meeting July 1st per usual. There's no board meetings the week of the 4th, so that would be July 15th.

Now, okay.

Can I say one thing?

Sure.

I believe that there is a time limit on how long the board has to decide on this.

Yes there is. That's why I'm talking to Kit now to find out what this is doing.

I would have to double check what that time limit is, but I don't believe once it's...

On the docket and we're hearing it. Yeah, I don't think we'd be coming close to that.

The clock starts when I made the application.

Yep, and that's the 65 days to get you in front of the board for a public hearing. I don't believe that that's the date that they have to vote by.

I thought it's that's not the date they have to vote by but I think there's like an additional like 25 days I don't know I don't have a lot in front of me I don't know the number is but I believe there is a clock that starts at the time of the Application for the Appeal. There's a clock from when and then when they have to make a decision. I believe it's 90 days, but I'm not 100% sure. So 90 days would make it like mid-June.

I mean... That is looking full for mid-June. And I personally will not be in the country mid-June. I've got people covering me. that would have to be a discussion between them so I can pull up the board's rules of policy and procedure to double check that but it's this would be in the MGL 40

Okay, give me a second.

If I could add and just echo what Kit was saying, I don't think that the clock applies after it has been heard if it's voted to be continued.

Well, can I make a suggestion if this is okay? I mean, we're all here talking. The clock's ticking for the night. I mean, why don't we, the appellant here, he made the, The challenge which is excellent and you folks go back tomorrow find out what the story is on the 65 days the 45 days the 25 days and so we can make because we'd like to give this the right amount of time to go over it study it and if so if you think Mr. Higdon that the July 15th is too late is that what you're saying?

If it were 90 days, which I think it is, I don't have the law in front of me. That would be too late.

When did you file? You're saying from when you filed?

Yeah, it was March 13th or something like that. March 16th, maybe.

Olivia has her hand raised. I'm sorry. Hi, Olivia. Hello.

I am not a lawyer, but I did look up the law. Yeah. So I would want to confirm this with staff. I can say it says all hearing of the Board of Appeals must be open to the public. The decision of the Board must be made within 100 days after the date of the filing of an appeal. Application or Petition except in regard to special permits as provided in Section 9.

Okay, so sounds like June 17th and we'll have to move some things around.

Which we mostly can do.

We as the owners did not get any notice at all. So we're not going to In March, from the city when this got filed, we only got noticed because we were abutters and that was last week with a postcard in the mail. So June 17th, given that we need to get Some details together and get some counsel. I'm concerned that there's not a lot of people who are experts on this particular topic, so we're going to have to get in line with said experts to get help.

Well, I would like the staff to go and find out precisely exactly and what happened since March 13th to today. The final, you know, what would the chain of command, what happened to what department? And then let us know, let the applicant, let Mr. Higdon know, and then let the... Four bells know what the final date that they can get. We'll go with the flow. I mean, when I look at the board, they'll give us our time to digest. And I like that Olivia looked that up and she found the 100 days. What I'm saying is people are saying they're not prepared. They won't be prepared, they think, by June 17th. And I know we have stuff already on the agenda that you've been working on that we... It couldn't go on the 1st, it's on the 17th.

And who knows if anything's going to be continued after that. That's why if we can go with the date, you know, I don't understand... Is the work still going on there or is there a stop work order?

We were not told to stop because to ISD's understanding was that we didn't Do any we didn't do anything wrong so we've not been given a stop work order we have all of our rough electrical rough plumbing uh and HVAC, rough HVAC installed. So this would be a challenge to say the least.

Kit, you're in tomorrow. Yes, I'm just concerned because the board needs to continue to a date certain. We have, that's my question.

That was exactly the question. You know, is that the story that we cannot continue without a date? That's correct. Okay. All right. And if we say the 17th, because that's the deadline, then that's when we have to meet, and that's when we have to have the vote. Right?

If the 90 days is correct, then I believe that would be true. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so yes, I'm speaking. Yes, I am Brockelman.

One other thing, the applicant's slideshow, can that be provided?

Yes.

Thank you. And then why don't we go with the next June and then we can still move it. I don't think we should be spending time arguing with staff. Over what they should know to be the law. Just set something and then you can check again, staff, and then you can move it.

So you're saying we should vote the 17th. That's what I was saying. Go with the June 17th and I'll talk to you more Kit or Lexi. Maybe there's something on the 17th that we can change. Already, if we have to go with this absolute, right?

That sounds good. I can consult with our legal department.

Yeah, you guys are saying 90 and... Olivia Sarwitz at 100.

Madam Chair, just to make sure I didn't misspeak, I'm inclined to go with whatever staff's recommendation is, which is which I felt like was a later date because of our case load and if that was not then we could move it up but I would grant staff the Thank you.

You're talking in July, Ian. You're saying go for July, but if we have to come back to June 17th, do that.

Yes, my understanding is that's what staff was recommending and I'm tending to think that staff are the experts on the law pertaining to appeals here. Thank you.

Lexi or Kit?

This is Kit. I think the July 15th Logistically makes more sense, but I would hate to run afoul of any open meeting laws that I am unaware of on the chance that I'm incorrect. So I think... As the zoning board coordinator, I'd feel better about the 17th and then having the time to look into it and extending if possible with the agreement of the parties.

Okay, well, I guess that's what we have to do. We'll go with June 17th, is it? Yes, Paul Fonbell has his hand raised. Where are you? There you are, Paul.

Do I have, like, if I'm going to submit something, do I have the same two-week requirement? Because that really helps. Then that accelerates things even faster. That gives me...

Yes, you do.

...two weeks to get... And I've reached out and I wish I had someone here this evening and it was not physically possible. The people I spoke to were not available. So I... could be in the same predicament in two weeks where the qualified individuals are a rare commodity and are hard to get on their docket.

Unfortunately, that's what it looks like right now. Am I correct on that, Kit? That is correct. We'd have to get his stuff in to you guys to have it approved for the presentation to us. That's correct.

Can I, like Mr. Higdon today, present extra stuff at the meeting? Because he presented a fair amount of stuff that wasn't in the early pre-submission. Am I able to just on the day of have a presentation put together?

I think so. Kit?

That's, you know, without knowing the law, apparently, that's kind of a hard question to answer because I believe that in your rules of policy and procedure, as the board, it says if new information is presented. It must be continued, but again, there might be some timeline that I'm that I'm unaware of. And I don't know that I feel comfortable answering that question without having to get back to the family, the neighbors.

I appreciate that because there was a lot of new material that wasn't on the CitizenServe or publicly posted today. So we hadn't prepared at all for the presentation.

Mr. Higdon, you're going to put that on the, you're going to get the ladies get their presentation tonight so we can check it out to everybody?

Yes, and is the proper procedure for that for me to add it under the administrative appeal permit as a new upload?

That's correct, yes.

I will do that as soon as the meeting is over.

Thank you. And I hate to say this, but if you folks really have any questions on Some procedure or you want to get something in or whatever, you'll have to check with the planning office, you know, to help you straighten out, you know, how soon you can get something in and stuff like that.

Okay, I believe Mr. Huizing can extend it also as the petitioner, if I'm not mistaken, to 100 days, so he can extend it.

What are you saying?

I believe Mr. Higdon has the power to extend through the chair for an extra half.

If you need to. Okay, we'll look into that. Lexi, you and Kit collaborate on this, please. Speak for the powers to be, make sure we're not embarrassed with the information that's not correct.

Yes, we'll look into it.

So without further ado, we're going to go with the 17th of June. Is that right?

Yes, I believe that's correct.

Okay, one more thing I just want to check. with the board does anybody have one last comment or anything you want to say no okay um so for the uh The applicant and the neighbors, thank you very much. Everybody was, sometimes these things get a little wild and I appreciate the behavior of everybody, including our board and our staff people backing us up. So I'd like to have the acting clerk please make a motion. Is the continuance okay with you, Mr. Higdon? You're the one that's got to say yes or no.

I mean... Honestly, I'd prefer not to continue.

Well, I'm going to tell you, I'm voting no as of tonight. If you don't get your quorum for it, then you're refused tonight. These people are saying they want more time. For us to look into it and get more information. You know what I'm saying? You need four votes to go with you tonight. They're telling me and I can see it. That's why I'm acting the way I am. I apologize. They're telling me they want to look at this some more okay if you get them off the cuff they might just say nay you know what I mean so I would I'd go another you know I'd go the other month just for the heck of it That's why I asked if they were doing the work now, what was going on over there.

As far as I know, they have continued the work since they were aware that the administrative appeal had been filed. I have evidence of that.

Wow.

Everything at this point, you know, they've got the approval, they're going forward. But when something like this comes up, a lot of it's at risk. So I'm asking you again, would you like a continuance until June 17th?

Yes.

Thank you very much. Zach Zaremba, could you please make a motion for a continuance on the 17th, sir?

Make a motion for the continuance of 24 Berkeley Street, ZP26-000037 to June 17, 2026. Thank you.

May I have a second? Second. Seconded by Sisia Daglian. I'll go around the board for the yeas and the nays. Olivia Mobay?

Yes.

Anne Brockleman? Yes. Zach Zaremba?

Yes.

Sisia Daglian? Yes. And Susan Fontano? Yes. Let the record show it was unanimous of the board to continue the 24, Berkeley Street, ZP 2600027 until June 17, 26. Thank you, everybody. And we'll see you on the third, the board members. any other so you guys are all set you can chime out we're going to continue a little closing up our business here good luck as you pursue and look for stuff thank you um where am I under Other business? Does anybody have anything they want to talk about? There's nothing on the agenda.

I have one really quick thing. This is Kit. I just want to introduce our newest PPZ planner, Kelly O'Loughlin. She's not new to the city. She's worked in economic development for I think about two years, two and a half years, but she just joined PPZ recently. Late April, so I just wanted to introduce her to everyone. Oh, you're going to come up with the big girls over here?

The big guys? The only board of appeals?

Yep. Thanks for the intro, Kit. I'm excited to work with y'all more in the future.

Great. Welcome. Welcome. Get all our numbers in case you need to reach us, you know, when you start working on cases. Okay. Thanks, Kit. Um, so, uh, Sisia is going to be out for a couple of meetings in June. Yeah, in June. I'm out. So everybody heads up. We don't want to get short. And Kit is going to be out on the third kit or the 15th? The 17th. Oh, the 17th. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to miss her. She will be out. But the other folks will be chiming in and helping out.

Yeah, we'll have Madison and Alvaro and probably Kelly there as well.

And does anybody else have anything to say? No? No? Are we all going to be here on the 17th other than Daglian?

I'm sorry, I have a question about the whole continuance thing. I thought it was a policy that if you're continuing a case, you sign a waiver. Just the act of continuing a case and the applicant agreeing to continue is... You know, you're waiving your rights to the 100-day review period. That's how I've typically seen this done. And therefore, you can schedule a meeting whenever you need to schedule it. Is that not the case?

I don't want to speak too much about the case outside of the I'm just speaking about procedural things I'll need to look into that If I may read one line from the law

again I am not a lawyer but it says the required time limits for a public hearing and said action may be extended by written agreement between the applicant and the board of appeals yeah that's what I'm referring to yeah

We'll bring this to the higher-ups and get all the answers that we need.

Yeah, and you know, you'll get back to us and all those folks if anything's going to change, all right? Zach, you all set?

I just want to maybe suggest something to the TPC. I don't know if there's any like trainings or materials or anything available around 80 years. like I said in the case I just think this is going to be like a continuous issue for us and I think it's a lot to ask us to be experts on this and make very impactful decisions without more background so uh I mean, I have a friend who just went to an ADU convention in Boston last weekend. Like, the wave is coming. So something to think about for us as a board.

I had asked earlier today. Did zoning board of appeals always take care of the administrative appeals? And she said, yes. And I was asking, like, it just seems like a lot had been popping up. And I was wondering, like, why? You know, is there a reason? Is it the building? Is it the property? People want to do stuff in their yard. They want to add to it.

so it's kind of it's here you know I think I think the state has legislation from last year to open up to make it a lot easier for uh these backyard colleges to be built by right I think so yeah just a thought

It's like when we got deluged with the transformers, the electrical transformers, it seems all of a sudden it was, you know, NSTAR or Eversource and they had to put them in the middle of the front and side and it was like really crazy. so yeah we we have to go forward and get in tune to that the administrative appeals I agree I like it I rather all right kiddo whatever you guys can do for us out there Whether it be Kit, Madison, Lexi, you know, whatever you just can bring back to when you have your meetings. With your superiors, they say, how's everything going out there? What's happening with the planning board? What's happening with the zoning board? You could speak up and say, you know, they want this. We're more educated and more streamlined and we act intelligent and have some nice good questions for everybody.

Then you don't have to have so many continuances as well. We will see what we can do. Thanks, Kit. Have a good night, everybody.

I mean, I need to make the motion to... Oh, that's right.

She got me. Zach got me. I gotta tell. Where's Ann Fullerton? I gotta tell her I got busted again tonight.

I hear Brian yelling at me from before. All right, I make a motion to end tonight's ZBA meeting of May 20th, 2026.

Do I have a second? Second. I had two people, CC or Indian. Okay. All in favor of continuing this meeting until June 3rd?

I thought we were at June.

Oh. I'm like losing my mind. I'm spent out right now. I apologize. I need a second for the adjournment and then we vote? Is that it? Or are we just done with the adjournment?

Second to adjourn the meeting.

That's what I thought. Okay, second. Got that from Ian. Now, Ian, what do I do, Vice Chair?

Vote?

There I have Olivia. Yes.

Thank you.

Anne.

Yes.

Cecilia. Yes. Zach.

Yes.

and Susan, yes. Let the record show that we're joining, adjourning our meeting of tonight, May 20th, 2026. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Have a good Memorial Day. You too.