School Building Facilities and Maintenance Committee

Hello, everyone. My name is John Link. I'm the chair of the School Buildings, Facilities, and Maintenance Committee. I use the he, him pronouns. 613. We are starting late due to some technical issues. Thank you very much to our clerk's office for powering through and sorting it out. We're going to call this meeting to order pursuant to the Pursuant to Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, this meeting of the City Council will be conducted by remote participation. We'll post an audio recording, audio-video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible. After the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. With that, can we establish quorum, please?

That we can. Councillor Scott. Sait. Here. Chair Link.

Here.

All right. With that, we have two members present, so we do have quorum.

Wonderful. We'll take a brief recess so that... All right, so I guess we have to do, I forget, do we have to actually vote on the, do we roll call on the recess?

Not to recess, but when you guys come back. Come back, that's it. Got it. Make sure no one gets lost.

We don't need another roll call. Thank you, Chair Link. My name is Ron Bitone, Chair of the... same school building facilities and maintenance subcommittee for the school committee I will also establish quorum Liz Eldridge are you here present Laura Pitone are you here I'm here and I am here. We have quorum to do business. I will turn it back over to Chair Link.

All right. Thank you very much, Chair. And let's reestablish quorum.

All right, let's do it. Councilor Scott. Councilor Sait. Here. Chair Link.

Still here.

All right. With that, we still have quorum. Everyone made it back.

Wonderful. All right. Unless there is any disagreement, we're going to table the minutes for approval at the end of the meeting and go straight into item number two then. So this is item two, ID 260241, that the administration provide the committee on school building facilities and Maintenance with regular updates on the Massachusetts School Building Authority MSBA process for the Winterhill and Brown schools.

Good evening, Chair Link, members of the committees. For your record, Richard Ray, Director of Infrastructure and Asset Management. Not any big updates since our last meeting of of these committees. The MSBA continues their formal review of the preliminary design program and the tech team Continues work on the other portions of the preferred schematic report. Just so everyone knows and is aware. We'll be mobilizing drilling rigs around the building to do test borings to inform foundation design. See what's under there because there had been another school and some other buildings that were demolished for The Winter Hill. Of course, our experience with the high school says we will probably miss any hazardous materials with our test pourings and only discover it once we knock down the building and start digging.

It'll also inform design for ground source geothermal should we decide to go in that direction. So we'll be going deep enough and put in monitoring wells that we understand what the depth of um groundwater is and that that sort of thing so these uh borings will serve multiple purposes um so you'll you'll see that uh um deployed uh this week and next or we're running out of this week so i guess it's going to be next week Other than that, the team also had another community engagement since our last meeting. This one was held at the TAB and tried to focus a little bit more on parking and site conditions. I haven't got a readout. I just got back from travel myself. But that was another meeting that happened. But otherwise, things are moving along nicely.

Well, welcome back and thanks for making it to this episode. I guess my only question is around those borings. So I guess how many borings will there be? Is it... How loud is it going to be? Have we told the people around? And then I guess just like, what do we expect in terms of how drastically or not drastically that can change things?

To the chair, it's not really going to change anything. It's just going to inform our designs. You know, we're still early days. I don't think it's going to change anything on the footprints. You know, we're putting in the borings as close to the building as possible, coming up, you know, like the loading dock and around the playground. So, you know, I think we get like five or six borings. I don't anticipate that it will take too long to sync that many. It's probably about a week's worth of work. Unless we hit refusal and have to start hammering, it's not terribly loud. But, you know, I've been around boring rigs myself, so I just kind of don't hear them anymore. But we have let the neighbors know that this is happening. We'd be doing it during normal construction hours anyway, eight to three, or... 7 to 3.

That was my last question, actually, because we just had an experience with us and The DOT, where they were doing borings in the middle of the night.

They did. The DOT deliberately did off hours for their own operations and detours. We're just going to do normal 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. shifts. Great.

I guess Chair Biton, I'll leave it to you. Thanks. Any questions from our side? I'm not seeing any. Oh, sorry. Member Eldridge, go ahead.

All good, through the chair. Quick question for you. I know that there was a meeting recently at the TAB talking more about community design. I wasn't aware of the parking and site conditions one, and I know that's been a hot topic of conversation. Do you have any more information or will we have any more information soon about that piece of things?

Yeah, let me get back to you on that. The design team will prepare something in time for our next presentation. A school building committee meeting or yeah which is when is it uh Monday we have to reschedule that one yeah The school building committee will have a meeting on the 8th and so we'll have materials on that and we can distribute those out.

Okay, seeing no other questions on our side, we'll turn it back over to you, Chair Link.

Thank you. All right, so we will just leave this one in committee. as we do and move on to item three, ID 26-0709. that the administration report to the school committee and this council on indoor air quality conditions at the Kennedy School specifically regarding mold and humidity levels and outline steps being taken to address them. This one was also from last time. I think we were waiting on Some reports on actual, the site visit and processes that might be created. Commissioner Weisman, I see you're here.

Thank you, Chair. Eric Wiseman, Commissioner of DPW. Yeah, so then since our last meeting, I met with the school department to outline a protocol for handling air quality concerns and requests and complaints. In brief that process would be Defining an intake at the school department level of these sort of complaints, then a process of information gathering on the part of the school department about the nature of the request. What the incident was that is causing the request. If the school department deems it necessary. We would then, the Department of Public Works would conduct an on-site investigation. That would be a site inspection. That might be a visual inspection, smell inspection. Moisture detection, it sort of depends on the nature of the concern.

Sometimes that would be pretty unnecessary because... Moisture or mold or something might be immediately visible and then it would immediately go into a remediation process. and then after that investigation or remediation would be necessary or was completed the school department would then determine based on criteria that they're working on what would be the next step and whether an air quality test would be necessary. So that's sort of like the broad... The broad steps of the process we have not or the school department hasn't formally defined what would trigger one outcome or another, but that's where we are on that. As for the Kennedy School itself, we did a couple of site visits after the meeting.

We went to several classrooms and also like looked through 311 requests and we didn't We did not find a lot of requests about air quality. based on the conversation last meeting and asking around in the school we checked out several storage spaces including I think the one mentioned in the meeting We didn't see a ton of evidence of... Mold or anything like that but we do have areas now to keep an eye on I think there was some some staining from an old valve leak as part of construction that we replaced it was just a ceiling tile in one of the classrooms that was identified. And so that's like something that we're going to continue to keep an eye on.

Thank you.

So just to be clear, you said you didn't see a ton of evidence, but it sounds like... We didn't see evidence of mold in the storage spaces that were identified. Got it. I assumed that you just meant that you saw things like the staining, which was maybe not necessary. That was in a different spot, but yes. Yeah, we didn't see anything in that storage space. We didn't observe anything, but I didn't want to say, you know. The person had no reason to make that statement, but we could not find anything.

Yeah, great.

Sorry for not speaking more specifically there.

I just wanted to make sure I understood. I don't have. I'm not in the Kennedy School, so I don't really know how to keep pushing on this if I need to. So I'm going to leave it to Chair Biton and the school committee.

Thank you, Chair Link. I'm wondering if member Pitone has any information. Yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead, Laura. Oh, okay, sorry.

I'm so sorry. Can you hear me?

That is a neat trick. Yes, we can hear you.

Yes, I'm on my phone and the computer because I didn't completely transition. Anyway, I happened to be at the Kennedy the day that Mike Bowler was there and Danielle, who is not on the call. She is in the call. Yes, she's here. I just wanted to compliment both of them for their desire to try to get to the root cause of things. They were very thorough. I didn't go through every single room with them, but I happened to go into the storage room That one of the ones that was behind the stage. And we had a really good conversation and Mr. Bowler talked to The Custodian about certain areas to try to keep that space a little clean and you know there's a lot of stuff in that space and there's also like a heater it's not part of the full

like system-wide HVAC but it's like a heating unit and so there was some mention at some point about a smell in that room and I kind of like was guessing and again this is not facts but that it might have been from like when you run a heater like that that's maybe dusty it can really not smell good. So anyway that's just something I'm only bringing up so that Director Wiseman can kind of flag that for himself. I'm sure Mr. Bowler had already mentioned that but and there was a teacher in particular that I don't know if Miss Berry wants to speak to it or if we've talked enough about this but that they had been concerned specifically so they went and tried to track them down so I don't know how that went but I just wanted to compliment and think that there was clearly energy trying to follow up on this and really positive intentions

Ms. Barry.

Thank you. Through you, Chair. I am Danielle Barry, Facilities Safety and Transportation Coordinator for the district. We were able to go in that teacher's classroom and we did some investigation and found that there like Commissioner Wiseman said there's a valve that had leaked onto a sailing tile just causing Staining. There was no other evidence of black mold or anything like that. What I have reiterated to school principals is to make sure their staff is reporting any evidence or what they think is evidence of staining, molding, water damage, things of that nature to either themselves or the school secretary so that they can put it in as a 3-1-1. and from that point we will do an investigation questionnaire that I will speak with either the principal or the staff member that has reported it

and then we will go through the proper channels with Commissioner Weissman and his team on further investigating.

Fantastic. I love a good process. So this sounds like the right process. It sounds like a little bit of a mystery with respect to what this was before. It definitely doesn't sound like the... Thank you so much for joining us. We have that in place. This is a good a good news story as far as I'm concerned, and I'd love to see Tackle, you know, the next iteration because something will go wrong at some point. Commissioner Weissman.

Thank you, Chair. I do just want to say that we will continue to keep an eye on it. We'll be especially sensitive to any complaints about the Kennedy School. and we'll absolutely check out that heater and see if that's something that just needs to maybe be taken apart and cleaned. Follow up with that. Thank you.

Excellent. Thank you for your support. Really appreciate it. I don't see any other comments, so we'll go back to you, Chair Link.

Thank you, Chair Biton. Yep, thank you also, Commissioner Weissman. It's great to actually see things get raised and then addressed in a timely manner it's fantastic so i really appreciate that um so we'll mark this one as work complete i believe uh then and uh move on um All right, so that brings us to agenda item four, ID 26-0710, that the Commissioner of Public Works and the Director of Infrastructure and Access Act Asset Management. Update this council and the school committee about safety improvements to security cameras, enclosed schoolyard fencing, balconies, and other infrastructure at the Argenziano School. I'm not sure who would like to talk about this.

Commissioner Wiseman? Thank you, Chair. I'm happy to talk about the first parts of them. So... Our staff went on a walkthrough with Danielle Barry and school staff. to look at the issue of the cameras as well as the enclosed schoolyard fencing. So we took that feedback and are scheduling work for those two items. These issues will both be dealt with after the school year, so the enclosed schoolyard fencing should be completed by the end of June, and the cameras should go in sometime this summer.

Great. So can I ask, so I saw the submission for the fence kind of diagram.

My rudimentary diagram, I apologize.

It got the job done. So I'm curious when it says locking, you know, double gate, locking single gate. So what are we talking about?

Yeah, so I think this is a standard chain link fence that will have double swinging doors so that as necessary vehicles can access. The school yard and then during recess the staff will be able to secure the gate. And then the parts of the school yard that are not... Not marked as locking gates are just chain link fence between the portions of the wall.

Okay. So... This is one place I'm intimately familiar with because I'm there every day. I just want to double check that I'm understanding correctly. Because this playground is also where all the drop-off happens, of course. Kids and parents would be able to get in and out freely in the morning and in the evening.

Thank you, Chair. Yes, that is my understanding. And then during recess, the gates may be closed. Yes.

All right, and then my only other, I guess, question is just that, so that there's the two, so there's, I guess there's one... So there's four fences that are just going to be fences and no gate. I know that two of those like it's they're kind of dead space they weren't meant to be traveled through in the first place the other two were actually meant to be um points of of ingress and egress uh so we're just kind of shutting those down though

Thank you, Chair. That's my understanding, guys.

Okay. And then my last question is, it's a chain link fence. I guess I'm just curious, are we... I've got a you know almost five-year-old and a seven-year-old and one of the things that they love more than anything is a good chain link fence to climb on um so are we um are we sure this is accomplishing what we want um and that Uh...

You know, Chair, I believe this is the standard fencing used in our schoolyards. I don't think it's an unusual treatment around the schools, but I could get clarity on that if you would like.

Okay.

Those I think are my questions. Thank you for now anyway. I see a lot of hands up, so I'm going to hand it over to Chair Biton.

Thank you, Chair Link. I'll defer to my colleagues first. So I see Laura and then Liz. Laura, go ahead.

Thank you, through you. First of all, glad to see this, exciting that this is going in sooner rather than later. I just want to make sure, I had an opportunity to see the diagram, but there are the, at either end there's the double Locking Gates. And then are there multiple single gates or just that one by the basketball? It's hard for me. I just see little red lines and I just didn't know what those were.

Great. yeah through the chair sorry again sorry for the diagram um we don't typically get architectural drawings when we work with fencing companies but um and so This was my understanding based on conversations with facility supervisor Bowler who conducted the walkthrough. I believe there's only one single gate. I could clarify that, though.

And may I do a follow-up? And this is something that the district has seen and is comfortable with, specifically the building leader, the principal? in terms of what they're trying to accomplish?

Danielle?

Hi, yes. So we have done approximately three to four walkthroughs of this area. To make sure that Principal Soto and her staff are completely happy with the design and on our walkthrough on Monday. I think I probably asked her five times if she was absolutely positive this was the right fit for the needs of the students so she is totally happy and totally on board and we appreciate the fast response that we've received from DPW to come and meet us every time I call them and say hey can we do this one more time please so we really appreciate them being on board that's fantastic

Laura, anything else there?

I have another question.

Okay. All right. We'll get back in line there. Member Eldridge.

thank you um through the chair quick question um in terms of the height of the concrete like that that the uh fencing is being attached to um i'm not sure how tall i know if i remember remembering correctly maybe it like varies in certain areas um Is there, have we looked at that just to make sure that there isn't any concerns about that piece of things?

Through the chair, I'm not sure the specific height of the different sections of the wall, but my understanding is that this was the desired layout.

Liz, do you have a follow-up?

A separate question so I can get back in queue.

Okay. I actually have a follow-up on that. Is the height of the fencing going to match the height of the cement wall?

Thank you, Chair. I'm not certain. I imagine the height of the fencing will be consistent if the wall undulates, I imagine. There'll be a uniform height to the fence, I would guess.

Okay. And Can you describe the locking mechanism? Is it like a lock lock or is it just a sort of closing mechanism and someone who wants to open it can just open it?

So, Chair, most fences have like a standard closing mechanism that can be locked. I think locking and unlocking that fence during the school day would be at the discretion of the school leadership.

All right, that makes sense. We'll go back in order here. Member Pitone.

Thank you. That was the start of my question. Thank you, Mr. Biton. And my follow-up is, I just want to make sure that I understand, I'm assuming that at the end of the day and on the weekends, none of this is going to be closed or locked so that's just how all of our parks are set up so unless that the principal during the school day locks it it won't be locked

That's my understanding as well, and that was discussed, that it would not be locked. Danielle?

that is what we have agreed upon that Principal Soto will take the responsibility of closing her and her team not just her solely but closing the Two ends during the school hours and then she will, in the afternoon right before dismissal time, those would be open. And would remain open until the following school day.

All right, I'm seeing some nodding there, so we'll move on to the next question. Member Eldridge.

Thank you. I'm not sure who the best person to address this question is. I know that there was a couple of open houses that were done this week for AIM families to come from Winter Hill and check out the new space. I'm wondering if there was any discussion amongst the parents just about the fencing in particular in terms of if they thought that it would meet the needs of their kiddos and every kid has a little bit of a different profile and just wondering if that perspective was if we solicited feedback from some of the families and maybe you have that information and maybe you don't I'm not sure

Through you, Chair. I haven't heard any feedback as of yet, but if we do, we'll be certain to address that with the families and take their concerns into great consideration.

Okay.

If I can also just opine for a moment, you know, I think every kid has, right, unique needs. It's not just those in the AIM program. And so I hope the community, anyone listening will understand that, you know, while elopement is a particular concern with kids with autism, Any kid can decide to take a run for it. So if your kid is a runner, I hope you're bringing that to your school leaders and make sure that they have... plans to and systems in place to address that and I'm positive they do because this is a common issue um so uh Liz did you have something else you wanted to add there

Yeah, just a quick follow up. If families have questions or concerns or feedback or suggestions, what is the best way for them to, like who should they reach out to? Is it directly to the principal or is there another best way for them to be in touch?

I would say the principal is the best way and then they can direct their questions that they can't answer to the district. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, of course.

Awesome. Member Pitone. Thank you, through you.

Did I miss something about balconies and what the status of the balcony is?

No, you haven't missed anything. I don't think we've hit on that yet.

So that's my question is just what's the status? I know that was something that may need some time to design. So I'm curious where we are with the... For anybody who doesn't know, there's like a balcony with a fence that overlooks a space and they were looking for more security there for students.

Through the chair, Public Works does not have an update on the balcony.

Okay, so hopefully we'll have something in our next meeting.

I think that's a matter for infrastructure and asset management. There was some design and procurement processes being talked about here. So, Mr. Raish, if you have any...

To the chair, we were discussing, we took a, or I was out, but Ralph Henry took a walk with Principal Soto and Danielle last week to get an idea of what What the ask is we're continuing to talk with the school administration around the specifics and decide if this is something that we want to move forward with, then we will need to hire an architect. for specifically that. So we're continuing to evaluate, but this will certainly lag behind the fence. But we'll get you an update for your next meeting.

Okay, so yeah, we can flag that and keep this in committee for our June meeting. That would be great.

Oh, Ms. Pitone, go ahead.

I know that there was also security cameras mentioned. I don't know if that had any updates to that, if anything was decided on around. I'm just trying to hit every piece on here to make sure that there's not something lagging.

Danielle?

Through you, Chair, I'm happy to discuss. When we did our multiple walkthroughs, it was determined with Principal Soto that there is a need for three additional cameras. and DPW has committed to having those installed over the summertime break.

All right.

Appreciate all these updates and the collaboration, always. So we'll turn it back over to you, Chair Link.

And just to kind of close it out around the fences, there was one more question that did occur to me. which is just and I don't think it's actually necessarily a DPW question is you know we're talking about these potentially locking it does got a little bit of anxiety around that because of the fact that We've got these bollards and then we've got a lock and this is the only side of the school that's actually accessible. On the other side are the train tracks. So if there ever was some sort of emergency where we needed fire trucks in there, I guess I'm curious if we've... If we've got the processes in place already, and if we've talked with the fire department about how to make sure that we're keeping this as safe as possible in the event of something terrible. Has that conversation happened?

Ms. Berry?

Through you, Chair. So the reason why the design of the open swing style... Fence closure was chosen is just for that specific reason. We had talked about different types of the chain like that rolls, but we thought that this would be the safest and most... easily accessible way for the fire apparatuses to get into that area. Okay, so we're confident and we have a solid plan with Principal Soto and her staff on how this would work in case of an emergency.

Okay, yeah, great. I just want to make sure that wouldn't be just like because they're very far apart. If we've got one person with like a set of keys for both things, that kind of thing, it's yeah, okay. Yeah, I would love it. I would feel a lot better just knowing that we've talked to the fire department about it. Just even if for no other reason than that they know what they potentially be dealing with. and I guess that's all I'll say about that and then my last little bit is just to agree with Chair Biton in that actually this is really good for everyone including you know the after school has had to deal with Thank you for joining us. In the midst of drop-off. So it is, well, part of me is sad that it's like, oh, it's not as open.

It probably actually is better that it's not as open. So I do appreciate that. Sait, I see that you've got your hands up. I'll stop talking.

Through the chair, thank you. Yeah, first I want to thank everyone for these updates and for the attention to this matter. My only question is, since there were multiple walkthroughs, were there any other Thank you for joining us. Did we look at other areas as well during these walkthroughs?

Through you, Chair. Principal Soto has not identified at this time any other issues of concern. If something comes up we'll be sure to take a deep dive into it and make sure that all the students that will be attending in Genziano are in a safe learning environment.

Yeah, and that's absolutely the lens we need to be looking at. So, that's exactly right. Sorry to interrupt.

You're welcome to interrupt at any time, Chip. All right, and I think that actually it's... All right, yeah, Member Pitone, go ahead.

Thank you, through you. I just had a question, and we don't need to get into the minutia of this, but since we're on the topic, I'm just curious at... For the AIM program at the Winter Hill, do we tend to lock the gate? I'm just curious about how often this locking is happening. Obviously, or not obviously, but students who are just regulated might have. A tendency for more elopement, but I'm just curious because often in playgrounds, you know, there's usually an adult near the gate. another way to handle it and I'm not judging and I trust the the district to do what they need to do but I'm just curious as a practice how we tend to handle

Through you, Chair, if you don't mind. I'm actually thinking like in reference to the Capuano school and that playground setup where they just have the gate that has the... closure latch and not doesn't actually have a physical lock and then they have a staff member typically in the areas of the gate openings so I would assume and imagine and can also Speak to Principal Soto about best practices around that to have staff members located at those areas. To prevent actually needing a lock as opposed to just a fence gate closure. I think that would make a lot of people feel much better and at ease. Give everybody a little bit of peace of mind.

And also just to go back real quick, I will follow up with the fire department and make sure that they are on board with the plans that we have in place.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Of course. Thank you. These plans also just get a preview to the CPAC. I think because there's been so much discussion in the community around these safety improvements for there to be a voice from special education families I think would just be an important sort of circle to close um just and you know sort of in line with the participatory requirement with respect to CPAC and how it functions so um that would just be my request Thank you. I got the thumbs up. Member Eldridge.

Thank you, Chair Biton, for bringing that up. I think that's a fantastic suggestion and I I believe that community would really, really appreciate just a quick touch base. My original state, I just wanted to say I appreciate how quickly everyone has addressed this issue and worked to come up with a solution. I know there's a lot of concern and hesitancy around the movement from one school to another and like I just I just want to express my appreciation for how quickly we heard the issue and we acted upon it and I know that's going to ease a lot of general concerns um when it comes to you know making sure students have the opportunity to be safe at school but then also you know use the outdoor play space and stuff like that so so just really wanted to express my appreciation thank you

And with that, we will turn it back over to you, Chair Link.

All right. Thank you, Chair Biton. So I guess it doesn't sound like we're quite done with this one yet. So we'll keep it in committee for discussion. And that brings us to our final item, item 5, ID 26-0492. that the Commissioner of Public Works discuss with this Council practical solutions to clearing snow from schoolyards without damaging play surfaces to allow students to access outdoor play areas.

So before we enter discussion here, if I could frame this for a moment. I'm grateful for all the conversation we've already had in this context. I think earlier in the school year, actually, where we had a memo from... then Commissioner Lathan regarding the surfaces and sort of the difficulty which I think everyone acknowledges and it's really helpful to have that enumerated. The reason this resolution is worded in the way it is, right... Practical solutions to clearing the snow without damaging the play surfaces is, I think we all recognize the challenges. And, you know, our schoolyards...

serve an important function, right? They are the outdoor learning environment for our students during the school year. And the surfaces that we install Thank you for joining us. Thank you for watching! For students to play. And many of these being several years old at this point, I'm thinking the warranty... May be near the end of its warranty period or may have lapsed.

So this is all just to say when we do have snow events, It's really imperative that we find ways, you know, reasonable snow events, right? A few inches. That we find ways to clear the snow and make those surfaces safe. Areas where our kids can play and sort of move past, if we can, the challenges, which I am very sympathetic to. So that's sort of the perspective. that I'm bringing to this. And I really welcome sort of the chance to discuss this. So thanks for hearing me out, Commissioner Weisman.

All right. Thank you, Chair. I think it could be helpful to have PSoF talk about why playgrounds are built the way they are briefly. if you could entertain that to sort of talk about why we got here and then I can talk about maintenance if you would indulge that

Of course.

Yes, of course. Thank you.

So my name is John Bromkamp. I'm the senior public space planner with the city of Somerville. Currently working on the Kennedy Schoolyard Project, so very familiar with our schoolyards and the work that gets involved with it. So a little bit of background just on Port in Place. Sounds like you all are very familiar with it. It's a conversation that you've had, but just a little bit of background about it. In Somerville, our Port in Place is usually porous, except in some crucial areas. so it's a lot of crushed stone underneath a thicker coarser rubber and that thickness of that rubber is dependent on the height of whatever play structure is so however fall you can Fall from whatever height of that structure that determines that thickness then there's more decorative coating that's put on top that's that thinner crumb rubber that you can colorize and do fun patterns with and whatnot. So... Port in Place is really the only thing that we can use in the city of Somerville.

It is the only accessible product that we can use. And just in our urban environments, it's really logically the only product that we have available to us. both because of MAAB so Massachusetts Architectural Access Board as well as our CPSI Review and ratings of our playgrounds. Poured in place is really the only option that we have in our playgrounds, but we do understand that in our schoolyards, we need to strike that right balance of poured in place to a plowable surface. So in our schoolyards, you'll see a higher level of asphalt or other hardscapes, permeable pavers, those elements that we can pave or those items that we can plow. and so we strike those balances. You'll see at the West Somerville Neighborhood School, at the Healy, at the Brown, there's all kind of this balance of

Elements that we know can't be plowed during the winter and then elements that we know can be plowed. Maybe there's some aesthetic repairs that we need to do to sealcoat graphics, but it's something that we can accept. Knowing that we're not kind of damaging this other portion. These play spaces are able to be used about 95 to 98% of the year. It's really these A few weeks in the winter when we have horrible snowstorms, this year in particular really kind of highlighted a lot of those issues. But that highlights that balance that we're always trying to strike in our playgrounds to find that plowable space. Things like creating access gates in our playgrounds so that plow trucks can come in and kind of clear out the sight of the snow. Other things like just simple snow storage in different areas and trying to figure out the logistics of how is a truck going to turn around in this.

I've worked with DPW to ensure that at the Kennedy School, you know, we can plow everything. And I practically drove a truck throughout the entire CAD plans to ensure that a truck can plow. do all of these logistical loops and not really hit anything even if they're a little bit kind of wonky wavy um so we definitely do try and figure out that albeit there are some older playgrounds that don't have that as much thought and consideration into those spaces but Going back to the port in place and just manufacturing recommendations. So we can't salt it because it's a porous surface. The salt gets in there and kind of just explodes all of the crumb rubber. We can't plow it because of that damage. It voids the warranty. The great thing is that these manufacturers do warranty the playground surfaces for 10 years, so we can't go after them for warranties.

And with this port in place being such an expensive piece of the playground, it's nice to be able to go after those warranties and not have to pay out of pocket for those repairs. So that's kind of why we really try and refrain from voiding those warranties at all costs. Speaking about warranties and maintenance I feel like now would probably be a good time to hand it over to Eric to just kind of talk about the maintenance practices.

Thank you, John. I want to pause if there's questions for John before I jump in or if you want us to just do our whole routine.

I do have one question if you'll indulge me. That was really helpful. And the period of the warranty was really helpful. So we have 10 years. and the consideration around snow clearing. You mentioned plowing and salting. One thing that I've heard as an idea and and then we've also heard about you know sort of parents requesting to go on like shovel brigades um I think Are plastic shovels an option? And then what about brushing? There are apparently some motorized brushes that can be used to clear snow. And that's something that Mayor Wilson had mentioned to me anecdotally. I don't know if that has been investigated also.

So maybe that's under your purview, Commissioner.

Sure. Yeah. Thank you, Chair. My understanding is most of these manufacturers do not recommend shoveling of any kind, whether plastic or otherwise. And I just want to take a step back from the whole warranty thing. and like I apologize if in the past that this was framed as a warranty issue like the reason that the warranty is worth mentioning is um like Shoveling the, you know, the warranty is in place so that, as John said, we can go after the contractor if there is a flaw with the installation or the product itself. And the reason that Certain activities like shoveling, plowing, void the warranty is because the manufacturer believes that that... That activity will damage the material. And they don't care if we shovel.

They just will not pay to replace or repair it if we shovel. Warranty on, warranty off, that doesn't matter as much because like The cost will ultimately be borne by the city either way. We should not be shoveling. We should not be plowing these surfaces. And then even you know were we to to expend the labor for handwork you would still need to likely salt the surfaces because like once like when we when we remove uh Thank you for watching! and Falling and things like that.

So that's like an added... An added challenge of handwork around it. So I wouldn't recommend, and Somerville teachers or families aren't alone with the desire to go out and hand shovel to try to help, but I would really caution against that. I think power brooms aren't recommended. Occasionally I've seen manufacturers saying that snow can be brushed off but that's really just going to be like a light fluffy dry snow which doesn't usually pose much of a problem to people playing on it. It's like when you get to the heavy wet snow that's sticking to the surface. And then just to take a step back with...

Our snow operations in general, and I don't remember under which context we discussed this, but we're going to be working with the school department over the summer to really define the different phases of snow removal for each school. School property so that there can be like a handy visual design for everybody or visual diagram for everybody. to know like what are our priorities what are the school department priorities for getting the schools open which is really our like Our goal with snow removal around schools and then to just like generally talk about the phases of snow removal. Our priorities are public safety, including access for public safety vehicles, and then maybe city maintenance vehicles, school operations,

It follows with safely dropping off and accessing and entering schools, then followed by removing snow from parking areas where identified by the schools to get teachers and students in. and then finally access to recreational facilities where appropriate so like we have a limited amount of resources and and time to get schools up and running and so those asphalt areas or the concrete areas the plowable areas that John talks about really lets us quickly um Within those constraints, get kids onto the playgrounds. So like our commitment as it is, is to to do all those sort of safety operations things and then transition into the recreational playground facilities. Do those paved areas to get access into the schools.

Thank you so much for joining us. Play on the port and play structure throughout the winter. And they play on the asphalt. And in other ones, Teachers Park on the... on the Asphalt. And that's really like a decision that happens at the school leadership level. That's not really something that the department has control over. So that's just like, sorry to throw a lot at you about snow removal operations. but like it's really hard to imagine a scenario where like given the all the other work DPW staff are doing and the resources it takes to um

to hand broom snow away and then the downsides to that, like when that would be appropriate versus not appropriate given the nature of the snow. It's hard to imagine a scenario where we would be going and like hand brushing snow away around play structures after each storm.

Okay, thank you, Commissioner, for that explanation. And if I can just, so it sounds like there's some coordination that's going to be happening over the summer. Between, imagine, Danielle, you will be involved in those conversations with DPW. And my request from that is... is that whatever the outcome of those conversations, that each school leadership has a clear picture, even a diagram of What areas will be cleared and what areas won't be with sort of an average snowfall? And then for the school leadership to communicate clearly

The families, because I think what we're getting into is every year we have, you know, at the first snowfall, big complaints from families about, oh my goodness, This area is open. This area is not open. My student is spending all their time indoors or needs to spend more time in this area or not that area. I think some expectation setting around that and an understanding that Safety and, you know, safety is driving this. And it's not necessarily about voiding a warranty, because I think that you're right, Commissioner Weissman, that conversation has overtaken the conversation about, you know, like, A reasonable response to snowstorms.

Thank you, Chair. If I may, I think that's a really good point. And I do want to say... Again, from what I've observed across the district is that there's not a consistent policy about playing in snow. and that that is really up to each school's leadership and my sense is that Sometimes safety is part of that conversation, but I don't think that's the only consideration that school leaderships take when they determine whether or not kids play in the snow or not.

I'm going to go to member Pitone and then we'll turn it over.

Thank you. I'm sorry if I could just make one more point on that. I'm sorry. And like I would say that like. As a city, we do not close playgrounds when it's snowy. That's not a position that the city has taken that snow-covered playgrounds are unsafe. I can guarantee that the playgrounds are being used with snow on them outside of school hours so I think that's like an important like framing of the question like snow on playgrounds is not Necessarily a safety concern. Sorry. Thank you. Laura.

No apologies. I appreciate the clarification. I'm just going to make a note on playing in snow and then I'll go into my question. I think one thing that sometimes people don't realize is playing in snow has a lot to do with clothing and we have a lot of students that are not necessarily going to have snow boots or snow pants or gloves and so You know, I appreciate the conversation about expectations and letting families understand that, you know, okay, you were able to, you know, Send your kid with full kit and full gear and not every family in our community is able to do that. So I think there needs to be that sensitivity too and I appreciate the conversation. I just had some general questions about you know I'm no expert on this but I've definitely been part of this conversation for a couple years and I completely understand that there's huge trade-offs having to be made because there are streets and sidewalks that need to be taken care of and I understand that

and I actually have to always compliment the city and DPW on the quality of the clearing of the sidewalks around the schools. I mean just I'm always impressed at that work. you know I just I want to make sure though that you know I understand there's also questions about what's it worth to invest in and my understanding is that you know there's different things that you can do on the poly services whether it's um sort of pre-treating them the same way we pre-treat the roads with I know we were very excited about the beet solution and there are other types of solutions that can be used on some of these I could be wrong, but that's my understanding to help with keeping the snow and the ice build up at bay. And I don't know if that's something or if it's just a capacity problem that we just don't have the people and the resources to do it. and I still don't quite understand the answer around whether or not

I know I'm hearing that brushes, but I also read that brushes are used in a lot of modern places or polyedge plows. My understanding is there is technology out there. Thank you for watching! I don't know if that a memo format would be appropriate like just something that documents all of this so that we're not always having the same conversation over and over again and we do it's great to revisit it because maybe some of this equipment one of them was like Battery-powered plows or something. Or even in newer facilities, I don't know if it's cost-effective, but some spaces put in heating systems underneath the rubberized surfaces. And I know that's money. but you know I just always want to make sure that we are being thoughtful which I think we are and I'm sure you guys are doing a lot of this work yourself

and we're sharing and being transparent with the community that we've considered some of these things especially I think the biggest concern and I really compliment John talking about you know trying to have some asphalt and soft surfaces so that we always have something for students But we're going to have some schools like the Kennedy that has a really small playground. We've already gone through the West that also has a really small space. And the new building at Sycamore Street is going to be a smaller footprint for a lot of kids. Like I said, my interest is transparency and making sure everything has been unturned and considered and we can document some of that for our community.

Excellent. Great points. We'll go to city council side.

I guess my question is, can we get something documented? I just didn't get an answer.

Sorry, yeah, I didn't pick up the question there. Just so I'm understanding this like... You're looking for a document, like an exhaustive document of...

I'm not looking for an exhaustive document. I'm looking for something that says that the city has looked at some of these different things. They've looked at brushes. They've looked at liquid... Anti-Icing. They've looked at, you know, rotary brooms and poly plows. And like, this is this, I want to make sure that we're having the narrative ready because and that as thoughtful as you've been in this conversation I want that document and I think it's really helpful at least for me on the school committee so that I can share it at the bare minimum with colleagues so is that an unreasonable request again it doesn't have to be exhausted

I'm never trying to create work that doesn't need to be done. And through the chair, I do have some of that information just from the Kennedy School. I, for my own knowledge, looked into like a heating system and Thank you for watching! kind of summarize our findings on those different surfaces so that we just have a document that everyone can refer to.

Yeah, and just to follow up, then it's also a starting point. So if like two years or three years from now, people are having these same questions, they can be revisited, but we've got a place and it's documented. Thank you.

and if I can just add before I turn it over that and especially with John on from from PSoF having the context of Access for students who have mobility needs or something, having some of that framing around How we're preserving... or whatever what our goal is with clearing the snow it's so that every student can have access to some and feel meaningfully included and have a sense of belonging so like that that should frame and I'm not saying like you need to have it in the memo in that way but like

at least to to bring that perspective while you're considering that um would be really i think meaningful because a lot of these conversations revolve around those issues in the first place Um, okay. Uh, Councilor Link. Uh, Councilor Sait, do you have... Looks like you've got your hands...

Thank you through the chair. Yeah, thank you so much for this conversation. Yeah, this is, I think, the second time we're having this conversation in this committee. and I really appreciate member Pitone trying to come up with an action plan here and so yeah we have everything you know So we look at all these different aspects, have them documented, and have something to refer to every time. Now my experience with... You know, plowing snow and all that just in general. There's a capacity issue. I've worked very closely with Commissioner Wiseman here in my ward. You know, like, we never know. Like, we can get, like, really...

you know bad winter with you know one snowstorm after the other and icing and you know where to put the snow is you know having not having a lot of snow farms here in our city so um So as we are putting together that document that was just requested, and thank you Commissioner Wiseman for willing to look into this, can we also look at... Who is it going for clearing snow in schoolyards? Who's going to do it? Is it DPW staff? Are these going to be contractors? Do we have contractors that specialize in schoolyards? I don't know anything about this. It's just, you know, whenever we contract out work, if we're thinking about contracting out, if that's the only way to do it, to also...

Make sure, you know, this would be like a good fit for, you know... Yeah, these surfaces. So that's, you know, because I'm trying to think about the bigger picture, which is like snow removal in the city and the issues we have. Run into in the past which is what you know this is contracted out and you don't always get what you ask for so um so that's one request to add there as well is looking to who is going to do it is it dbw is it contractors if it's contractors do we have contractors who are like specialized in this um and then and then he had like one really like simple question and uh just because I'm very ignorant when it comes to these things um so you Commissioner Wiseman you mentioned snow removal And then after snow removal, you need to salt.

Makes sense. Would using sand be better or is it kind of the same?

So through the chair, I'm going to guess what John's going to say and that I know that in the design of playgrounds that they really try to keep sand features far away from... The rubber port in place surface, because I'm about to use a dirty phrase here. It voids the warranty. And I think the reason is that the... that the grit actually gets into the surface and makes it not perform as effectively, but I could be corrected on that.

through the chair you were spot on it's actually a little bit worse than salt because salt can slowly dissolve whereas sand will just sit in those pores and keep it clogged forever

Thank you. Thank you for educating me on this. I just thought I would say it because it's something that was, you know, that parents were wondering about. And Yeah, and then the other thing I wanted to mention is, you know, how can we think about this creatively? It's like, would shaping snow for play be an option since... you know I know again it's just you know we have some you know schools where kids really really need to go outside you know they're younger um is you know and if it's like not bad you know if it's like fluffy snow and i don't know this is again just just an idea since there is no policy saying like snow outside no going to the schoolyard Yeah, it's up to principals and, you know, to make that call. So, yeah, again, just putting it out there. If it's something that the service...

Thank you. Yeah, I'm totally open to creative ideas. I'd also be really excited to talk to peers in the in neighboring communities that are doing this so if you know of schools where they are removing snow from these surfaces I'd love to talk to those people those districts and find out how they're doing it because I love to to steal rather than invent

Thank you. And then the last thing I want to mention is, and member Biton mentioned it, thank you for that, is, yeah, we always need to remember that. Not everyone can dress their kids for the cold weather, for below temperature weather, for playing in the snow. And... I really, for this specific piece, I really trust that our community can come together and help each other with that. And yeah, there are so many creative ways we can do that. And it can be an effort between the city and the district to provide If we get to a point where playgrounds are open after it snows, I hope this will not stop us from doing it.

like as one member I will really you know try to uh you know push for this because yeah it's it's just you know part of the school day and investing in our kids um so just wanted to add that

Thank you, Councilor. So I think everything has been pretty much said that needs to be said at this point. I did, I guess, one small tiny nitpick is that you know my I'm not sure that I think the we were saying at one point that you know the the school yards are reusable you know like 95% of the time I'm not sure that that's necessarily true I don't know if we're... Do we have the data to... I have to imagine that would be impossible to actually have.

So through the chair, I was looking into... A number of days of snow cover on average in the area. And I think it's something like 27 days a year. And I think that's an average. So includes big years and small years. And I think I don't know how they define that, but I was trying to see that it is a number. This is a number that comes up because it's a source of ecological concern or climatological concern that the Boston area is actually... or New England is the amount of snow cover is decreasing faster than other areas in this area.

The last One thing that kind of occurred to me is, you know, we talked a little bit about, you know, like, well, we don't want to, if we clear, then you still have to do like, you would have to salt because it gets icy. But I do want to just point out that when you've got salt, all these little kids running over like uncleared snow the thing that happens is it all just packs down and it becomes really thick ice that lasts like sticks around for a really long time and um is I think oftentimes more slippery than something like Black Ice so I don't know that There's anything that we have done or potentially could do that's going to necessarily undo that potential danger. Risk. Fair enough. Back over to Chair Piton.

Thank you, Chair Link. I just wanted to build on some of the conversation you were just having. Sort of squinted at that 95% number too. You know, I think the 27 days is maybe more operative here. And I think that's consistent with what we're hearing, you know. If you think about it, 27 days, it's essentially like, well, what if you didn't have, or you had snow cover for all of February? It's a month without access to outdoor spaces or without full access.

Through the chair, I do just want to point out that we do put a tremendous amount of work into clearing the areas that we do have. So like, I don't think that this conversation needs to be as black and white as like... Absolutely. 27 days no access. We do put a lot of effort into clearing as many areas as we can. And that is a lot of labor that my staff puts in. So I do want to say that.

That is completely fair, and you're right. So, you know, I just... I guess maybe there's just the consideration of the staff's work and the incredible effort of DPW, which I think the community really needs to be grateful for. and the consideration of the kids who you know really do need movement breaks and the difficulty on that end and it's really just you know Both parties need to have that consideration. And I think we're there. So I appreciate you calling me out on that black and white narrative because that's not fair.

you know so I just you know I think we just need to continue to keep an eye on how things are going and and I do think that the expectation setting that I sort of was my first question will really help with kind of level setting and allow people to sort of point to something and say, yes, we're in the hardest part of this, right? February comes every year. We know it's coming. and and we'll get through it but we sort of prepare ourselves for these are the areas we're going to be able to use these are the areas that we're not going to be able to use and we'll sort of go from there Yeah, totally agreed. Excellent. All right. Appreciation. Councilor Lake.

Of course, Mr. Bichon. And I think that you said it very well in that you know it would be an unrealistic expectation just to think that like you know 100% of the space is just going to be like we can just clear it all and it'll look like it does in the middle of the summer it'll look like in the middle of the winter I think making sure that both the parents, families, and the staff have an expectation of what is reasonable is, I think, really helpful. and by what is reasonable I mean what is practical both in terms of effort and in terms of dollars and making sure that we've got a plan to do Thank you for joining us.

I'm like truly missing from this puzzle is just that maybe the communication aspect and that everything else seems like it's probably pretty close to there if not there already.

Okay.

I also appreciate Sait, and Councilor Link were talking about, you know, this idea of where can we help families if we can improve our communication? I think that will be excellent. I also think we can channel that energy into how can the community help the kids that don't have the right clothing. So like if a parent is complaining and saying, I want to go out and get a shovel, we say, great. You know what you could also do instead of getting a shovel is maybe work with the principal and see what you can do to support that challenge. Because the more kids that we have outfitted properly, the more likely that the principals will feel comfortable and possibly the teachers feel comfortable taking their kids out in the snow because as we all know there's nothing

much more that kids enjoy than playing in the snow other than playing video games but you know it's a it's a close second so um it just kind of dawned on me is like obviously there's this frustration and I was one of those parents in the past and you know I appreciate Sait said, well, you know, how do we get this community together to help solve that problem? So, I mean, it might be a little Pollyanna of me, but it's just a thought. So thank you everyone.

And I appreciate all of this.

Alright, let's see, oh, had to get it in there, huh?

That's just like... No, because I really want to... Yeah, like I really like to leave with like an action always, ideally. So for that, is there anywhere here, like maybe from the school department who can... you know bring this idea to the principals so that they can maybe in their email communication with the parents you know before winter starts to be like is this something parents are interested in um i mean we all you know like if you're a parent you know you know those boots and snow pants they wear them for one season and then and they're very expensive right and um and i know because you know you know my my kids are really young so i'm discovering all these like groups in the community for parents and all that

I know that already exists there's a version of this already so it's just a matter of communicating this to parents and if there are you know volunteer parents who would like you know to uh you know you know start like the donation and you know coordinate that um with the schools and then yeah so if that if we can start that conversation before next winter and um and then you know anything you know if we can't get all what we need then what can the district what can the city do to help um so Yeah, if we can get the ball rolling, I guess is my request here because, you know, I like to have an action something. All right. Thank you.

You might be able to start with Lost and Found. Seems like a pretty easy seed.

Yeah, especially for the gloves and mittens, yes.

We'll go to Danielle first because she's probably going to say what I want to say.

So I am happy to work with the principals on getting that going. I think late October, early November would be a great idea. Maybe around the Thanksgiving, thankful... Where can people help? Because I know people love to be very generous at that time of year. I am also happy to continue to work with SFLC. They are a huge, huge... Help with serving our community. The work that they do goes above and beyond what anybody really sees from the outside. So huge kudos to... That team, but I'm happy to work with both principals and SFLC to get the ball rolling on this.

And just on that, if I can add, there's also another group, Mamas, that do this kind of work. And if you're familiar with them, if you...

if there's a way to get them to also reach out to them but again I don't know I believe SFLC works closely with that group so I'm sure that they would be able to get them involved as well

Thank you so much, Ms. Perry.

Of course.

I would also just suggest coordination with the PTAs. I mean, the... principals for whom you know who identified this as as an access issue um PTA is our incredible partner in each of our schools so um and are always looking for opportunities to provide support. Laura?

Just quickly, I very much appreciate you, Ms. Berry, in saying that you want to coordinate this. I also think that it's important from the district's perspective to consider culture in terms of if we want to have a culture of getting our kids out in the snow that has to be something that comes from leadership um and you know we're not gonna make every educator do things but um it almost it's like you have to have this mission and saying like you know it's great because I do think there I know that there are Family liaisons that do this work already in terms of trying to outfit kids but again is the egg game is the district willing to say you know we're going to be that district that gets our kids out as long as it's not unsafe We are going to get our kids outside and we don't want the clothing to be a barrier. So I think there's something that has to come from the leadership too. So it's just a thought. And of course, we'll bring that up at school committee too.

Liz.

Just wanted to express my appreciation for the discussion around the need for appropriate snow gear. I think that's wildly important and is an access piece. I also just wanted to Quickly touch again on the point that Chair Biton brought up earlier and the fact that when it comes to students that have mobility aids, whether it be wheelchairs or walkers, accessing the area is impossible without a cleared space. and so we're looking at you know access challenges with clothing but then acts like physical access challenges of not being able to move in the space and i just wanted to um just i guess bring that as a reminder that they can't even go into the outdoor space successfully without A cleared area to be able to operate in.

Okay, so just to... This was kind of a long discussion, and it sounds like a lot of it is actually... kind of maybe not in the hands of DPW, but it does sound like there is being the request that we come out with some sort of memo just to kind of level set All of the different things that can and can't be done and why they can't be done and the things that we've looked at so that we don't have to... Tread Old Ground next year when there's maybe a new person. And then I guess then there was a conversation about doing the scope of the DPW Commissioner Weissman

Sure, I was just going to volunteer to do some of that, the report as part of the diagramming and did like a Identifying the phases of snow removal operations at each of the schools over the summer. So maybe sometime in the fall, I'd be able to present that to this body or submit it to the council or the committee and you guys can determine the best way to accept it. That would be wonderful.

I just saw from someone that there's from .. You'd said that a participant had their hands up. Falsimioni. Can we... Oh, attendees, I see. Um, Kirk, can we, so I'd like to recognize Holly Simione and, you know, sponsor her, unless anyone objects. Okay, so no objection. House Mealy, you can talk, please.

Thank you, Councilor Link. I hope you can hear me. I apologize for jumping on late. But this is a very important access issue and it was brought up because there are multiple students who cannot use the playground unless the snow is removed. And I know in the future when we have a new inclusive playground in the front, we will likely have the same type of The preferred safe, rubbery material. that the issue is that it cannot be cleared traditionally by snow blowing because it can be damaged and the concern is That it would have to, I guess, be like hand brushed.

And I think that this item that was submitted... is a little broader than maybe as it's just written here, but I just wanted to elevate the concern about, you know, I personally as a resident, and a parent of a child in a wheelchair, those soft, safe surfaces are the most accessible and the most safe to prevent injuries to children who will fall having fun in a playground. But knowing that there's warranty issues with the type of equipment used to clear it I am very pleased that we're talking about this. Before we get the next storm, what does DPW need to be able to clear off the playground? and obviously our other parks in the city need to be cleaned of snow.

So that's really what my question was about is how can we make sure that everything Thank you for watching. is what I was curious about. And thank you, Councilor Link. Of course.

So I think we did kind of cover some of that, but I don't know if... Director Weisman, do you want to do the Sparks note version of it?

Sure, Chair. So... Good to see you again. We had a similar discussion in sustainability and infrastructure of some other snow removal things and priorities. The DPW prioritizes access to public safety vehicles first and then operational access and then recreational areas when doing operations. Snow removal. We focus on the paved areas of every playground first because that is something we were able to do with equipment. Hand-brushing all of the rubberized surfaces in a playground seems to be the only...

Approved method for removing snow from poured-in-place surfaces, and I'm not sure that in every storm that would be an appropriate treatment given the wetness and density of snow at any given time. So, with that being said, we are going to be looking at snow removal as a whole from the Every facility in the district, we're going to be working with the school department on identifying that. I'm not sure it's realistic to remove snow from Every surface at every playground, but I think what we're going to come to is a clearly communicated plan for each. School Grounds and School Yard, about which areas will be cleared and accessible for kids to play.

And I hope that covers it.

Thank you, Dr. Westman. That was my... My sense of where we're at as well.

Okay. And if I can just clarify that... This just for Miss Simeone, who I'm really glad she had a chance to join us. This isn't... Based on what Commissioner Weissman said earlier in this conversation, this is not being driven primarily by warranty. It's... It's to ensure that the surfaces continue to perform effectively. So... That was a clarification that was really helpful for me personally. And maybe that SparkNotes version is maybe too SparkNote version-y, but I...

I think it's important to sort of that I think we're kind of moving past the warranty sort of focus here, which is really helpful. And then I think Danielle has expressed that she's going to be following up with Communication plans and, you know, whatever the diagrams are to better set expectations on the school committee side. So that's and much gratitude there, too. Thank you.

So how do we want to leave this one? Do we want to mark this as or complete them?

I'm fine with that unless someone has a particular item they want to follow up on.

I think we should mark as work complete and then we'll if there's if we feel like we need to pick up more after any sort of memos or anything like that then come out then we can do that all right so let's please mark that as we're complete and Council Sait moves to adjourn

All right, and we also need to approve the minutes as well.

Oh, yes. Forgot about the minutes for a second.

No worries. Okay, so on approval of the minutes and adjournment. Councilor Scott. Councilor Sait.

Yes.

Link, or Chair Link, excuse me. All right, with that, it is 7 48 p.m. and we are adjourned. Thank you all.

Thank you. And I'll just say for the school committee side, I promised to have minutes for our meetings from the last two meetings. have failed in that endeavor so I will bring them up in the next one and we'll have a whole slew to go through so we're adjourned on our side thank you

And thank you again for your patience with the tech issues.

Glad we got it. Thank you very much. Thanks. See you guys.