Licenses and Permits Committee

Hello, welcome to the Licenses and Permits Committee meeting of the City Council on Wednesday, January 21st, 2006. I'm Ward 7 City Councilor Emily Hardt. and pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation. We'll post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. Um, Clerk Pottier, can you call the roll?

Absolutely, Madam Chair. Councilor Davis? Here. Councilor Wheeler? Here. Chair Hardt? Here. We have a quorum.

Excellent. Thank you. The first agenda item is approval of the minutes of the Licenses and Permits Committee meeting of December 10, 2025. And that's item 25-1862. Are there any comments or questions about the minutes?

Not for me. Thanks.

Okay. I will lay those on the table to approve at the end. The second item is a public hearing. It is ID 25-1702. Referred for recommendation, new used car dealer, class 2 license, Union Square Auto Sales at 39 Webster Avenue, 20 vehicles outside, Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 6 p.m., Saturday, 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. and Sunday closed. I will now declare this public hearing open. Is there a representative here to speak on this item?

Madam Chair, I do see a hand raised. Excellent. Attorney Dasch, you are unmuted on our end.

And I'm unmuted on my end. Good evening, counselors. Good to see Counselor Davis dressed for the weather. Adam Dash, 48 Grove Street, representing Union Square Auto Sales LLC. Also out there should be Chris Vigos of Union Square Auto Sales if he's needed. We're here to discuss the used car auto sales application for used car dealer license for 39 Webster Ave. The property was most recently used as a used car dealership and has been for some time. The applicant is just looking to do the same thing in the same place in the same manner as the prior dealer. They just need their own license is all. So they're just going to be a new operator basically in the same location doing the same thing. The number of cars are the same as before. The hours of operation are the same as before. Thatcher and Chris, Chris and his partner Thatcher Irvin have experience in Somerville operating a different used car dealership in a different location. All has gone well. So we are looking to...

be approved here tonight or at least to be referred with a positive recommendation so the full city council could take it up hopefully tomorrow night. We're here for any questions. Thank you.

Excellent. Thank you. Do any of the committee members have any questions? Yes, Councilor Wheeler.

Hi, thanks. This being my first meeting with this committee, I'm curious about the process. I don't have any objections with this application. I am curious, though, I do note that quite a few of the automotive-related applications that have come before the Council just in this month When I sort of do a little bit of looking up online, there is often, as you're suggesting, other named businesses that have been doing similar operations. In the same place. Recently, I know sometimes there's ambiguity or changes in the names of businesses in different places and

I'm just I just wanted to highlight that I'm curious about sort of making sure that we're tracking these these businesses and the people who are running these businesses In a sensible way so that in the rare times that there's somebody who is, you know, maybe breaking a rule and then changing the name of their business or starting a new business and doing a similar application that we can notice that and therefore be helping the well-intentioned and good citizen players, so to speak.

This is Attorney Adam Dash again. Yeah, I appreciate that. I can let you know this is a brand new business. They are doing the same thing as the prior operator at this location, but the prior operators left this location. So we're stepping in as a brand new company doing a brand new thing, although it is the same thing. It is not related to the old operators whatsoever. and as part of this process I mean the city does have a lot of guardrails built in for these used car dealer licenses posting a bond getting two letters of recommendation Having criminal record checks done on the principles. It's one of the more rigorous licenses to obtain, to be honest. Just filing the application takes a lot. So the fact that they've done that and as I said they've been approved by this council for a different location under they have a different company that does that other location but it's the same people behind it. and they've been through that all of that process and have been operating fine so as I said nothing is changing as far as the neighbors are going to see

Other than the sign, I don't think anything is going to change whatsoever. It's going to just be more of the same. However, just for your purposes, it's a completely different operator. That's why we need a new license to do the same thing. Otherwise we would not. and then the licenses have to get renewed by you periodically which is why they're coming I'm assuming these other ones are coming up thanks I appreciate that context that's all my questions no problem

And Mr. Jash, just to clarify, the other business operated by these operators haven't had any complaints or citations from the city?

Not of which I'm aware. Mr. Svigos is here. If he wants to be able to unmute himself, Chris Svigos, he could probably verify that, but I'm certainly not aware of any.

Through the chair, I do see a hand raised by Mr. Zavigos, if you would like to sponsor them to speak.

Sure, I will.

Hello, can everybody hear me?

Yes.

Yeah, going off of what Adam said, I don't believe I've seen anything as far as the prior operator having any trouble with the city or any of the residents around.

Okay, just to clarify, I actually meant your other business in Somerville.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Did I say that correctly?

Yes, no, we haven't had any issues, no complaints. To be honest with you, we've been lucky enough to have a lot of happy customers, which is nice.

Great, great, thank you. And Councilor Davis, thanks for your patience.

Yeah, thank you. So I appreciate that. I think, and I'll be happy if... Attorney Dash has any concerns on this, then I certainly would be happy to hear them. Forgive me if so, but I'm just thinking in terms of... In terms of folks who might be watching this and might want to weigh in, is there... And hopefully it doesn't sound like that would be the case, but is it... Would you be willing to share the name and location of the USA Business for that context since you're bringing it up?

Oh, sure, absolutely. Adam Dash again. No, they're operating the Assembly Square Auto Sales on Mystic Avenue under Assembly Square Auto Sales LLC. and just they've compartmentalized them with different LLCs but they're the same two individuals.

Yeah okay thank you through you Madam Chair to Attorney Dash. I totally understand you know not uncommon at all in fact quite common that folks would set up a different you know Operating business name to hold different locations stuff so nothing no concerns there whatsoever just thought we'd since it was raised and used as a as an example I thought it was appropriate to ask for that name and you know Hypothetically, if anyone had any thoughts, I suppose positive or otherwise, that folks would have an opportunity to weigh in prior to, well, I guess tomorrow night. The only thing I want to clarify is just for anyone who's looking at the actual application, there's a parenthetical that might be a little misleading. Through you, Madam Chair, I guess really this is a clarification. You've already, Stash and Mr. Zvigos have already pretty clearly stated this, but there's examples given.

Such as the increase in number of automobile trips, hours of operation, or change of address of the building. None of those apply. None of those examples are conditions. It's simply the change of ownership of the entity owning the license and operating the business. Absolutely no other business changes.

Yeah, this is Adam Dasch again. That is absolutely correct, Councilor Davis, that if any of those things changed, ISD is saying you would need a special permit. But in fact, we don't because we're just a continuation of a pre-existing use in the same manner.

Yeah, exactly. All right. Thank you. Just wanted to point that out if folks are looking at that and maybe a little confused. Sounds good. I appreciate y'all being here and answer questions. I have no further questions, Madam Chair.

All right. Thank you, Councilor Davis. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak on this item?

This is a public hearing. If there are any members of the public who wish to be heard on this item, please raise your hand in the Zoom lobby. Madam Chair, seeing no hands.

Okay, thank you. So I declare this public hearing closed. And I'd like to lay it on the table for approval at the end, if that works. Okay, item three is a grant of location. And this is something that was an item that was carried over from last year. It's ID 25-1754. Eversource applying for a grant of location to install a total of 38 feet of conduit in Warwick Street from Utility Pole 357 over 3 to a point of pickup at 16 Warwick Street. Is the applicant or representative of the applicant here?

Madam Chair, I do see a hand raised.

Okay, fantastic.

You are unmuted on our end.

Hi, how are you? My name's Hannah Cooper. Sorry, I'm covering for Jackie tonight. You're welcome. Thank you. So I do understand there was just a question from the last meeting of the spare risers on the poll. Okay, so we were able to find out, we own two of the risers that are currently on the poll. One of them is for The primary line to the transformer and the other one is a spare for that primary line in case anything goes wrong. There's a fault so that one has to stay available and open so that's why we have to install another one for this.

Okay, so you clarified that they are, that two of them are Eversources. Do you know the third? I believe there's a third. um there is a third we we don't own it so we don't have the option of doing anything with it okay and the two um that are ever sources are both are necessary correct yeah i understand

Yeah, one is currently the primary line for the Transformer and the other one is a backup for that primary line so it has to stay available in case there's any fault with the primary line to the Transformer.

Okay, excellent. Clerk Pottier, can I give some background for anyone listening about this item?

Madam Chair, through you. That would be within your discretion, of course.

Okay.

I just wanted to, for anyone watching, there was a butter who came to the past meeting to speak on this issue. Wondering why there would need to be an additional conduit or riser because there are already several. So I really appreciate you, Ms. Cooper, for our conversation. Getting that information and clarifying that for us. Committee members, do you have any questions or comments? Yes. Councillor Davis.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to, and forgive me, Jackie's filling for tonight. I've forgotten your name. Hannah, was it?

Okay.

Thank you for following up on that. Let me just, so I guess make sure I understand because, you know, at the last meeting I was looking at the, you know, the Street images of this poll and it looks like as you said there's sort of there's two risers coming up to a certain point then it looks like maybe one of them stops and then there's another one coming up what so through the chair to you where is the transformer is it is this is it Where is the transformer that you're talking about? Is it up in the air? Is it on a building? Is it on the ground? We're talking about going to a transformer.

The transformer on the... Hang on. I don't have an image of the poll. I'm sorry. Give me one second. Um, sorry, I wasn't, I wasn't sent a picture of the poll. Hold on.

and full disclosure I'm just using a commonly known publicly available street view provider from appears to be from August of 2024 so relatively aged but sounds like it's It certainly meets the description that we heard in the last meeting.

Sure, yeah, so let me, I just had to look at the plan and see. I just don't want to say it's on the poll like realistically. Give me one second. Sorry, give me one minute. Okay, yep, so the transformers right at the top of the poll. It's the big gray box at the top of the poll.

Okay, I'm not seeing that on this poll. and so maybe I assume what looks like a transformer on the next poll assuming I'm looking at the right ones here this is 33 or across from yeah anyway I mean I guess it's Let me ask a different question. For the grant allocation that you're asking here, is the line... Is the line... Is there an additional rise or anything required to be added to the poll other than what's already there?

Nope, anything that would be added to the poll is already accounted for on the plan.

I'm not sure how to parse that. The poll that we're talking about is across from looks like 15, 17. and so I'm trying to do justice to the constituent or the member of the public that that raised the issue before. In our last discussion, my understanding is we were talking about a poll in front of 17, which is the poll that appears to be one poll down from where the transformer sits. Is that correct? Sound right?

Sorry, give me one second. I'm just looking.

One second. Yeah, the plan on screen seems to confirm that.

So that's what I'm seeing on the street view if that's that's the poll but again this is this is the street view it's not like it's not a picture of the poll that I've been sent. by our engineering department. So I can't say for sure that we're looking at the right poll on the Street View.

Yeah, I mean, on the street view, it's pretty, what I'm looking at is pretty clearly the one that's directly in the front corner of number 17 Warwick, which is as shown on the screen as the poll you're talking about. There are two risers that go up, but there's no transformer at the top. Now, again, this is a couple of years old. So is your information that there now actually is a transformer on the top of that pole, despite this older picture maybe not showing that? Exactly.

Yeah, so my information is that two of the risers go to a transformer.

Okay. So... End of the day, all of the gear that's there on that pole, those two risers and whatever goes above it, is necessary, one's a redundancy, but you're not adding anything additional to it. Is that correct?

Yes.

I assume you're bringing a line down the pole and then going across underneath the street?

Yeah, so the conduit is being run underground. Yep.

Right, but is there anything additional being added to the poll to get the line down or are you able to use the existing conduit?

No, so the two risers that are currently on there that were discussed at the last meeting They're both needed for the primary line that feeds the transformer. Okay. So we can't use one of them for the new conduit that we're running under the street because those both need to be available for the primary line.

Okay, so there will be a new conduit added to the pole in addition to the two that are there already, and then you'll go onto the street. Is that correct? Correct. and there's what you would notice there's there's there's no way to avoid that is it possible I mean I guess you know looking at the poll here there it it I won't make any judgment as to the workmanship but it appears to be let's say less tidy than perhaps it might be. Is it possible to maybe I'm trying to do justice to the community member here that was here last time and that was willing to, you know, we just want to sort of understand what was going on. and I can certainly understand there's a lot going on on that poll already and I can see where someone might you know at least want to understand it so can I just make the request that to whatever extent

you know what's there can be can be cleaned up it looks like there may well be some abandoned lines I see again this is a 2004 picture so it may not be accurate or it may not be up to date but um Can I make that request that that be tidied up to the fullest extent reasonably possible as this work's being done?

Yeah, so anything that's on the poll that we own is needed for the primary line. I can't speak to anything that's potentially been abandoned by any other companies, but the... The risers that we have on there are being used for primary.

Okay, so again, we get to the problem of not my problem, somebody else's problem, and we all stand around in a circle pointing fingers at each other. And this is no knock on you personally, but you can understand the frustration this comes from. I've got a constituent who's got a pole, which frankly looks... We have these all over the city and no one wants to take responsibility for cleaning them up. And there's always a good argument. There's always a good legal explanation that, well, No, we don't know who this is. It's not ours. At the end of the day, basically the buck stops nowhere. So, you know, I guess... I'd like some confirmation that this can be cleaned up a bit. I know I'm kind of nitpicking here, but I agree with this constituent that it's a lot. There's a big construction project that was at least a few years ago was happening down the end of the road. which by the way does appear where the transformer actually is or was back in 2024. Maybe it's been moved up the street.

But, you know, it doesn't seem to me unreasonable to if we're going to if we're going to, you know, grant the approval to to go under the street here. to access whatever's happening across the street that we condition that on this poll being tidied up to the fullest extent possible. I'm not sure, through you to the clerk, is that a condition we can add to the approval in some way without getting ourselves in hot water?

Through the chair, I... It seems like it would be a condition based on whatever Eversource itself directly controls to the extent that it's not Eversource property. I don't... I don't believe that we would be able to condition that license on this. And remember, this is for underground conduit, not for any additional work to be done on the pole is my understanding.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for that, Ms. Clerk. Yeah, I mean, I understand that, but the very... directly related point is that the line needs to come down this pole and then go across the street and this constituent who will have construction happening in front of their house in a trench Doug and Apache across the street is asking if the poll can be tidied up. So, you know, I guess I'd like to make that request to the extent that We are able to, let that be part of it. And if we need to circle back on that to get the right wording for tomorrow night, I'm happy to have a conversation tomorrow. I don't feel good about just allowing the buck to continue to be passed on polls that just have become... Honestly, this is not even the worst one I've seen. But...

you know that to whatever extent that there's uh you know every source has the ability and and the authority to you know to uh uh

And through the chair, I do believe there is precedent for conditions such as that leaving a worksite clean as a condition of issuing the license. So the chair would. Add that as a condition when this is voted on for recommendation.

Okay, so to the extent you need a motion, then so moved.

Okay, thank you. Wheeler, did you want to speak as well? Oh, you're muted.

Thank you. Thank you. Yes, there's a lot of background that I am picking up in bits and pieces about some of these terms. I appreciate the conversation so far. Something that that I'm understanding from this conversation is that in order to supply power or you know to to supply power in the desired way to 16 Warwick As Ms. Cooper and Councilor Davis were just discussing, Eversource would like to run power in a new riser. Added to the pole, down the pole from the transformer to the ground, then also dig a trench across Lay that wire across and refill it. And I am also hearing it. I was at the meeting where that abutter was concerned, although I didn't understand exactly what the concerns were at the time.

I appreciate Clerk Pottier. You're pointing out that the condition of leaving the worksite clean could be attached. I'm not quite sure if that addresses the concern. I think there could be, say, an additional bulky riser added that... The abutter might find incrementally reduces the view or is unsightly in addition to the possibly already unsightly. HodgePodge riser that may or may not be current that I have also seen on this Street View image. So I'm just wondering if

Instead of just adding a condition of the worksite being clean, If it's either possible to add a condition that the risers be... It be ensured that all of the risers are up to current standards. I'm trying to search for other wording that might... you know lead us to a reasonable place of saying hey um if this is if things are already in good shape we're not saying tear them down and redo them as they are But if the state is this kind of hodgepodge that I'm seeing of one pipe ending and another pipe that's not quite aligned with it beginning...

Is it possible in the course of work like this to, you know, I've seen different kinds of risers on poles, to do one that could envelop and include the existing riser wiring? and this new riser wiring.

Thank you, Councilor Wheeler. Ms. Cooper, do you have any comments?

So I would be happy to bring up any of these concerns or send them over to Jackie to have her address with... the Engineering and Construction Department and address if any of these concerns are a possibility or get more clarity on what we can Potentially due to assuage the concerns about the risers on the poll, I'd be happy to forward those over.

Thank you. And just for context, also echoing what Councilor Davis said, I am also not seeking to nitpick, but I do know that when there's a need to do particular work, that often is an opportunity to say hey can we can we take this chance to to give a little extra attention to what the state of this poll is because you know after this work is done Asking every source, hey, could you come take a look at this list of polls and redo them to be a little cleaner? Or whatever combination of owners these polls have. And I know that's complicated. It'll only be trickier when there's not this plan or this need.

Thank you. Okay, I would love to hear, uh, excuse me, Clerk Pottier, could you, um... State again, what you think the condition could be and if Councilor Wheeler's concerns could be incorporated?

Through the chair. The condition that I have seen is related to worksite conditions to the extent that there is a change to the construction plans themselves. Those might need to be redrawn and resubmitted to engineering for review to the extent that the request being made here does fundamentally alter what was previously submitted and approved by city staff so I would just be careful of that that what we have Approved by staff is what we're showing you on the screen. And so if that needs to be changed, then that would likely require a new submission of plans and a cover letter.

thank you um did you have okay go ahead Councilor Wheeler

Thanks. I just wanted to suggest this could be something as well where a further discussion with the abutter Explaining what we've learned could lead to their saying they're okay with it. My sense... From some of what the abutter said in December at the city council meeting was that a lot of the concern came from confusion. and not being quite sure what this work might involve. So it may be that you know short we could uh find a path forward short of saying you know this work needs to be resubmitted or redone to say um maybe it could make sense

to hold off on approving this long enough to at least give us a chance to speak to the abutter and see if the understanding that we've gotten addresses their concerns. And I don't know what the context is of, you know, if this is a power conduit that's necessary for someone to move in. I want to make sure we're balancing things. I'm not trying to introduce onerous delays.

Absolutely. My understanding from the last meeting is that it's to an accessory dwelling unit. And that the work would not be able to be completed right now in the winter, that it would be a project that Eversource would carry out in April. So... Ms. Cooper, please correct me if that's mistaken. But that was my understanding that there's no immediate time pressure.

I'm not, if that's what was discussed in the last meeting and Jackie had that information, I'm confident that she had the correct information.

Okay. Thank you. Clerk Boutier? And would it be possible to keep it in committee and reach out to the abutter who spoke?

Through the chair, that would be a possibility. I would only say that the if that might change the overall outcome um that would be the reason that you would keep this in committee if there's a chance that what that abutter said might change your mind Otherwise to keep this in committee would require keeping it on the agenda and asking Eversource to come back to another meeting, which is of course well within your discretion. I just wanted to raise those two options for the committee.

Okay, thank you. That's helpful. Davis.

Madam Chair, thank you for that discussion and for those questions, and thank you to the clerk for that clarification. I want to throw out another option. I mean, the The council meeting question is tomorrow night, so we don't have our usual, you know, well, it's a week, it's a few days, we can circle back. But... Another possible avenue would be to vote it out of committee without a recommendation. That way it would be before the council if someone's able to reach the abutter tomorrow and kind of talk through it and say, hey, We can always then send it back to committee. We wouldn't delay it in any way at all because it would be back for our next licensed permits meeting. But if we were all ship-shaped, then the council could, if it was the will of the body, vote to approve it tomorrow. and or add conditions or whatever else. That would give us the most flexibility.

If we didn't do that, then technically we couldn't pull it out of a committee because we would have needed to... Well, actually, we may be beyond the... There may be a time, maybe a little wrinkle on the road, but let's set the complexities aside for the moment because the general best practice is if we think we might want to take something up at the council level... or at least have the option to, then the best thing to do would be to vote it out of committee without a recommendation. And I have a good sense that the president of the council might be perfectly willing to have a conversation about it. I'll put a good word in on that.

Excellent. Excellent. Thank you, Councilor Davis. President Davis for that suggestion. Are there any other comments on this? Like that idea? Do we need an emotion?

So, Madam Chair, I think just for the clarity of the record, if it wasn't implicit, I, you know, I will consider my having said so moved earlier on an amendment as being a request for discussion on it rather than an actual motion. So we'll... You would be perfectly okay in interpreting that as not having been a formal motion by me. I will move that we refer this audit committee without recommendation. So that it could potentially be discussed tomorrow night at the City Council meeting. And we would need a vote on that. Excellent. Okay. Well, I think we need a vote on that, Mr. Clark. Mr. Clark?

I do believe there would need to be a vote. I would take one just out of an abundance of caution.

And Clerk Pottier, given that there's a motion, Right now, should we vote on this?

Madam Chair, through you, I could call roll on this item now, yes. Okay, let's do that. All right, on item three, ID number 25-1754, the motion on the table is to refer this to the city council without recommendation on this, Councilor Davis. Yes. Councilor Wheeler.

Yes.

Chair Hardt.

Yes.

This will be recommended to the full city council without a recommendation.

Okay. Thank you so much. And thank you again, Ms. Cooper. Thank you for coming. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Okay, that brings us to the end of our agenda. We still need to, I believe, vote on approving the minutes and on the recommendation for the new used car dealer license.

Through the chair, we do have two more votes that we can take. We can take the tabled agenda items, the minutes and the license for the used car dealer, and then there would be another roll call vote on adjournment.

Excellent.

I would be happy to call the roll on the substantive items. The first is the committee minutes from the meeting on December 10th the vote here would be to accept those minutes and the second would be on the license application for the used car dealer item number uh item number 2.1 id 25 1702 On those two items, Councillor Davis? Yes. Councillor Wheeler? Yes. Chair Hardt?

Yes.

Those items are accepted and recommended for approval.

Excellent. Thank you.

and on adjournment if someone wants to make a motion to adjourn make a motion to adjourn On adjournment, Councilor Davis. Yes. Councilor Wheeler. Yes. Chair Hardt.

Yes.

Thank you very much, everyone. We are adjourned.

Thanks all. Thank you, Chair Hardt.

Good night.