Licenses and Permits Committee

Hello, good evening. I'm Emily Hardt, Ward 7 City Councilor and Chair of the Licenses and Permits Committee. Welcome to the Wednesday, March 11th Meeting of the Licenses and Permits Committee. Pursuant to Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, this meeting of a City Council Committee will be conducted via remote participation. We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. We're joined tonight by Clerk Clotelier. Could you please call the roll?

This is roll call. Councilor Davis?

Here.

Councilor Wheeler?

Here.

Councilor Hardt? Here. With all Councilors present, we have quorum.

Great. Thank you so much. We have a short agenda this evening. First up is the approval of the minutes of the Licenses and Permits Committee meeting of February 25th, 2026. Is there any discussion or are there any questions on this item? If not, I will lay that on the table for approval at the end of the meeting. The next item is a grant of location ID 26-0181 Eversource applying for a grant of location to install a total of 62 feet of conduit in Ivaloo Street From utility pole 179 over 5 to a point of pickup at 38 Ivaloo Street. And is anybody here from Eversource to speak on this item?

Jackie Duffy is in the audience excellent um Jackie would you like to I'll I'll just give a brief I just had to unmute myself um

The last time we met, we wanted to see who was next on the polls on those double polls to be removed. Yes, thank you. Hold on one second. On poll number three, RCN is next to go. And on poll number six, Verizon is next to go.

Okay. All right. And what about the, were you able to ascertain the hanging wires that are in the tree?

The low wires of the communications. So... You would have to get in contact with the RCN. It's probably RCN and Comcast because when people move, they don't take the wires down. So that's most likely what those wires are.

Okay, but there are ones that go through the tree are actually to the utility pole. They're between two poles.

Right, right. But that's CN and Verizon also.

Okay.

Thank you. Councilor Wheeler, go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. I could use a bit of a recap on this item. Looking at it in Legistar, I can see that the Overall, simple information, but, you know, could you please remind me, Chair, or Ms. Duffy, what is the issue around the order that you were referencing in particular?

Yes, thank you, Councilor Wheeler. So we kept this in committee. This came up in February. And the reason was because there are I'd actually like to sponsor a resident of Ivyloose Street to speak, but basically there are several issues. There's two double poles and also some hanging wires in general. The polls are not in good shape on Ivaloo Street. So that was what we were hoping could be addressed in this process. So I would like to sponsor Chris Dewan to speak next if he's here.

Hello, good evening. This is Chris Duan of 26 Ivalu Street. Thank you so much for the invitation. I'll be really brief. This is a continuation of a request I have been making of Eversource since at least January of 2020. at that time we had two mature trees on the one block street where I live and Eversource's power lines were Chiefing against them, sparking, smoking, and causing damage. And in January of 2020, I raised this in a similar meeting. received a verbal commitment that it would be taken care of. It was not and the trees subsequently died of their injuries. I'm not an arborist, but they weakened and sickened and died and had to be removed.

Since then, I have requested several more times that these double poles and out-of-alignment poles and dangling wires that Eversource take some care with their infrastructure, and it just hasn't happened. So the ask here is to Once again try to find a way to cause the utility company to maintain their equipment in a way that it doesn't create a risk where we wind up losing things like trees. I'm happy to answer other questions on that but but it's it's it's a very very long-standing issue on my street and also I know for the rest of the city this is a thing that comes up council after council year after year I would appreciate any any advice on what we can do to incentivize or cause the utility company to take care of these things in a timely manner thank you

Rudachea, could I ask Chris, what meeting was it that you brought it up and they said they were going to take care of it? Do you know what date that was by any chance?

The memo that I wrote to then-Councillor Scott is dated January 20th of 2020. and I spoke with you and you told me that you would through the chair. I spoke with Jackie Duffy and was told that it would be taken care of.

So I brought it back to the division. I'll make sure it gets done. I mean, I'm only the middle person, but I will go back again tomorrow and I'll see what I can do for you, Chris.

Thank you, Ms. Duffy. Appreciate it. And Councilor Davis.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So just a little historical context, as Mr. Dewan noted, the issue of... Abandoned Wires and Double Poles is indeed an issue that the Council has been wrestling with for decades. A very long time. I'm certain long before my tenure here, which is now in its 11th year. And we have looked into what could be done about Abandoned Wires, Dangling Wires, etc. It turns out that we uncovered several years ago a law, a state law, that says that If the utility companies don't remove wires, that the city absolutely has the authority to go and remove them and charge the utility companies.

Now there's a lot of challenges with that A confirming definitively whose wires they are and of course just having the The capacity to go around and do that. But my understanding, unless something's changed since the last time it was explained to me, is that that is something that the city could do. Obviously, that's not the most efficient way of doing business. I recognize that the only representative here is Ms. Duffy from Eversource and there are a number of other utilities that use these poles. and it's this sort of unfortunate circumstance of just a big circle with everybody pointing at the person to their left and we've just had years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years of this and Most of the time, nothing happens and nothing changes. It's really frustrating. And so, you know, unfortunately I, you know,

The issue writ large is not something we're going to solve tonight in this meeting with this one grant application before us. But it is something that I think is, especially with a new administration, worth raising again. at the council level for an item that is sort of specific on this to see if we could, I mean, we're not in a financial situation right now as a city where we have tons of extra money and capacity hanging around, but no pun intended. But, you know, it might be worth coming back and having a conversation and collecting the representatives from the various utilities and, you know, opposing upon them again to clean up their mess. That all said, Ms. Duffy, through the chair, You mentioned which utility being next. Am I correct that you're referring to sort of the

The collective process to address double poles throughout the city and the need for utilities to move their lines off of those in a sort of Orderly Manor so that polls can be removed. Did I understand that correctly?

Yes. So on the one, hold on one second. On one of them it was Verizon and the other one was ASEAN. So there's a pecking order.

So actually, can I interrupt? Could you just, just for the sake of folks who might be watching and who don't recall the last conversation the council or this committee had on this, could you just sort of give us a high level of that, what I'm talking about, that process, because I'm sure you'll explain it better than I did.

Okay, so we get off first, then it's Cable, TV, then Verizon.

Okay, let's take a higher level. So there are double poles, a bunch of them, around the city, right? And we know where they are, and we have a list, right? And you all collectively, I don't know if it's Eversource that is sort of leading the process, but there is a sort of a deliberate process in place to, you know, Remove those, right?

There's a database called Engines N-J-U-N-S. that they keep the city has access to it and we have access and I think the other utilities do also.

Okay, and through the chair. Through that database, that database includes the double poles, and that is sort of the process through which the utilities are collectively... You know, and I think there's sort of an order of precedence, right? Like this is the next poll to go. This is the next poll for you. So each utility can look at where their next polls are. And the idea is that year over year, we... You all are eventually reducing the number of double polls. This is the last time we had this conversation in committee. I recall seeing this and saying, well, wow, we should make this more known, right? Because it is actually happening. At least that wasn't the time. So through the chair, if I may focus the question to the item before us, I think I understand that there are two double poles on this street.

and you mentioned the two utilities that are sort of the next in order can you speak at all to like what the expectations should be for where where we are in that process or when those Double polls can be, you know, when folks should expect those to be addressed. Do we still have many utilities to go and would that translate into months or years or weeks or how should we be reading this?

That I cannot answer. I would have to go back to the division. I have no idea how long it would take them.

Okay.

I don't want to lie to you. I appreciate that.

But through the chair, I mean, you spoke to which utilities were the next in line. So I inferred from that that you maybe had taken a look at the database. I was hoping maybe you might be able to shed a little more light on where the process is.

I don't update the database. I had asked the clerk that did it, and that's the information that she gave me back.

Just that those are the next two.

Those two polls, yes.

Okay, that's all for now, Madam Chair. I mean, I'm not sure that necessarily helps our deliberation here, but I wanted to just give a little background for folks on that whole process and how it might relate to this.

While we were speaking, I've already sent a text to the community relations person to get the ball moving on this.

That's wonderful. That's fantastic. I just wanted to say briefly, just to Councilor Davis's point, I am working on... The next resolution to move that larger conversation forward along with Councilor Scott has done a lot of work on this in the past. Wheeler. And I just want to, Councilor Wheeler, just one second because I want to ask a question specifically following up on Councilor Davis's questions to Ms. Duffy. So Given that, am I correct in understanding that Eversource owns the polls?

Ms. Duffy, are you still there? No, I lost you. I couldn't hear what you said. Sorry, you went blank.

Okay. Am I correct in understanding that Eversource is the owner of the polls?

Yes.

Okay, and so is there, I understand there might not be a regular communication with like RCN and Verizon, but I'm just wondering if there's a way to or reach out with them to them.

Well, that's why we have that database. That's the only way that I know that we contact them unless it's maybe a struck poll or something like that. But this I will look into. I'm just sending texts now to get this really moving. I was out there. I know how bad it is and I feel bad that that tree died and that I agreed to it in 2020. I take full responsibility for that. But I can't tell you when these other ones are going to get off.

Yeah, OK. Councilor Wheeler, did you want to?

Thank you, Chair. I'm just trying to take this opportunity to try to enhance my education on the background of these questions. I don't understand what the precedence in question refers to. I don't know if we're talking about... An order of polls or an order of companies that have some kind of say or responsibility for a given poll. I'm coming from a lack of... I don't want to take up everyone's time to teach me, but I would love an explainer as though I'm in fifth grade that makes it crystal clear what we're talking about.

Thank you. Thank you, Councilor Wheeler. I appreciate the question. And apologies for not making it more clear sooner. So I'll take a stab at it. And Ms. Duffy, please correct me if I'm wrong. Sure. When there is a double poll, Before it can be taken down, each of the wires that is attached to one of the poles has the old pole. You know, what often happens is they have the old pole that for some reason needs, you know, isn't structurally sound anymore and then they affix it to a new pole that is stable. But then leave all the wires attached to that original pole. And so each utility has to move their line separately to the new pole before the old pole can be taken down. And that goes in this order that Ms. Duffy was just telling us.

I believe that's the order of Eversource, then cable, then TV, and then Verizon. And so all of that has to happen before Wheeler, does that answer your questions or do you have more questions?

Thank you. So, you know, I'm curious about how this type of coordination works and whose responsibility, if anyone's, This type of coordination ultimately is. Having just served on this committee a short amount of time, I see that we start these conversations because there are these applications for a grant of location. Essentially, our ability to say yes or no is what spurs the conversation to be happening. I just want to recognize that may structurally not be the ideal way to approach these questions, right? If we're dealing with these questions only when a grant of location is requested, there may be a mismatch with the need in different areas. Maybe there's not a grant of location needed on this street, but there's a big problem. And then plus, holding up a grant of location

on these grounds, that might be inconveniencing or adding cost to a project or a home or a developer. In some cases, they may have deep pockets and it might not be a problem, but it's one of the things that can cause something to stretch out with ultimately... companies like Eversource really being none the richer or none the poorer for it. So I'm glad and I appreciate your presence and your attention and your taking responsibility, Ms. Duffy. Absolutely, that really matters. It may be that this approach is the extent of the council's powers currently.

It seems to me like it would be good to try to identify at least some kind of mechanism by which out of the rhythm of these grants of location City, whether it's counselors, whether it's the mayor's office, whether it's its staff, can be communicating with these utilities and having a common understanding of a plan for what's going to happen when. And I acknowledge I may not be the first to state this idea.

Do the cheer please. I see Moose has been in contact with that community relations person. So he knows a lot about what's going on with the double poles.

Yes. And just to your point, Councilor Wheeler, absolutely. This is what I've been working on with Councilor Scott and engineering and Davis referred to before. This has been attempted in the past to address the situation in a more systemic uh fashion um and So far we haven't, well as Councillor Davis said, there has been progress made and so we're very appreciative of that and definitely want to recognize that there has been some progress made.

but also recognizing that there is more work to be done in this area and in particularly the coordination and having everybody being able to address issues across all utilities, right? So we are working on figuring out the best Way to approach it. And so that will be This is just the beginning of the next phase of this effort and so we'll be seeing more, you know, soon.

Thank you so much, Chair. I'm excited to hear about that. I appreciate your treating this proactively and working with city staff to get a better solution.

Thank you. And Ms. Duffy, did you have something else to add that I preempted you from saying? No, I don't think so.

Okay.

Well, and also to Councilor Wheeler's point, I definitely don't want to do anything punitive to a specific, you know, on a particular individual grant of location grant. So, and I appreciate, I appreciate Ms. Duffy, I appreciate what the information, the new information that you've been able to share tonight. And Mr. Duan, I really appreciate you being here tonight. and to provide the longer term context for this issue.

Can I just say something to the chair? I'm sorry. Chris, could I get a copy of that that you sent to JT Scott back in 2020 if you can? They have my email and my cell phone number. With the city, if you don't mind sending it to me. And I was wondering if we could get this approved for 38 Ivaloo tonight with the stipulation that all this work would get done. because it's holding up this customer and it's starting to be spring and they probably want to get everything done. I don't know if that's a thought that we could go look at.

Yes, I would like to get this done tonight. I shared that.

Oh, awesome.

Thank you. Mr. Dwan, do you want to respond to Ms. Duffy's question?

Through the chair, I am happy to forward you the email I sent six years ago.

Perfect. Thank you, Chris.

Okay, great. So I'm thinking that we should... move this forward like I just mentioned but condition the license that before construction starts that we would like to see some Given that Eversource is not the next to go, I'm just thinking about how to condition this. because we would still like to see these issues resolved. Let's see. That...

that there are what what do people think of conditioning it on that there are um continued efforts to to resolve these issues would that be Make sense as a condition? Yes, Councilor Wheeler.

Thank you, Chair. I'm a little concerned that continued efforts is a bit vague. It might be something where... We have really what we have ultimately is a promise of good faith. You know, I want to hear what you and others have said about wanting to balance the fallout of this being drawn out longer. I don't know anything about this particular... resident or customer or property owner. But I wonder if we could maybe get a little more firm. I'm not speaking from a place of certainty about this, But could we articulate something achievable that's specific that as a condition might be even more motivating?

Yes. Well, the... I'll just say what ideally I would like to see is that as a condition of starting construction that the double poles are removed and that the wires are are relocated and properly tensioned and that everything is fixed. My hesitation with that is that because we are dependent on work from RCN and Verizon, that it doesn't, you know, I'm And they aren't here. I'm just wondering if, you know, that that would be an appropriate condition.

But I think it would be, that is what we would like to see here. Yes, Councilor Davis.

Thank you Madam Chair. I appreciate the discussion and I had a conversation with the acting clerk about this today. This general concept, not this specifically. You know, While we do have broad discretion in applying conditions, my concern in this case is that in order for the conditions to be met, Third parties that aren't a party to this grant application, they need to do things. There's really no practical mechanism for that to happen through this grant application process, unfortunately. Again, years of frustration. Here we are again.

and you know while on the one hand I want to and we have in the past sort of tried to use this process to leverage some improvements in this case I think I'm inclined to agree with sort of what's been discussed and Councilor Wheeler suggested that it's really coming down to good faith here and The degree to which the folks at Eversource can, anything they can do, obviously, but to encourage that process to be moved along from the other utilities. We need the other utilities in the room to sign off on this and they're just not a party to this. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much leverage we really have to make conditions that are That would really apply to other parties.

Exactly. Yes, Councilor Wheeler.

Thank you. I really appreciate the nuance of this conversation and the focus on the practicalities. I wonder if there are any aspects of this that are entirely within Eversource's control that we could specify. And that's something... I'm speaking as someone who is not familiar with the wiring on the street. I feel like if I were, I might be able to make some more concrete suggestions. just purely as background understanding of of the Wiring Situation. I would be curious to ask both of our guests, Ms. Duffy and Mr. Dwan, if they have any suggestions about aspects of the wiring that are entirely within Eversource's control that might be among the points that we could touch on.

That I don't know of. I mean, we have that database. That's all I know we can do. And we rely on them to come and take the wires down. That's all I can tell you. When they're next in line, they come and they do it.

Thank you, and Mr. Duan. I'm sorry, that's the chair's job.

Go ahead, Mr. Duan.

Thank you. Through the chair, this is not my area of expertise. I appreciate that we're dealing with Multiple companies, most of whom are not in the room, and the actual regulatory authority rests with the state. So it does seem to me to be a matter of personal trust and trust. All people just trying to do a good job and get along and make things safe for everybody. I If I had to come up with something, I would suggest that asking Eversource somehow to make a formal evaluation of the condition of what's on the street in writing and at least assert that it's safe. and if it is unsafe I would ask that they fix those safety issues immediately perhaps even pre-empting

The waiting for these other companies to respond, which so far as I can tell, that never happens unless external pressure is... is applied. It's been six years. But I would suggest that's entirely within Eversource's court to have somebody come out and take a look and write a paragraph either saying, everything is to our standard and fine or we identified a deficiency and we are fixing it I think that that would be a not unreasonable ask

Yeah, I appreciate this conversation and the creative thinking. And, you know, so I've been by there a couple of times, including today, because I knew from that. work had been done and so I wanted to see if there were visible you know changes and improvements and certainly I can appreciate that just from a not knowing about about you know the the technicalities of this of poles and lines um just as a lay person it does not look safe um in a lot of respects so That to me sounds like a reasonable thing to request. Other counselors or Ms. Duffy? Do you have any reactions to Mr. Duan's proposal?

No, to me, that sounds good. Councilor Wheeler.

Sounds good to me too, Chair. Thank you.

Great. Okay, so thank you Mr. Duan for this idea. I will move that this license be approved and Conditioned on Eversource making a formal evaluation of the polls and lines on IVALU and submitting a written report of their findings. Did I get that right? Did I leave anything out? Anybody? Or Mr. Dewan?

Sounded perfect to me. I am also not a legislator. I don't know how to do what you do.

Thank you. And Ms. Duffy, yes, did you want to speak?

No, I think my mouse just moved.

Oh, okay. Okay, thank you. Okay, so, Clerk Letelier, can we... Should we take a vote on that or at this point can we take the vote combined on that and the minutes approval?

We can take a roll call on the condition and then we can take a roll call on both of the items. Fantastic. Okay. Thank you so much. So we will take the roll call on the condition. So on a condition that Eversource make a formal evaluation of the polls and lines on IVALU and submitting a written report of their findings. Councilor Davis?

Yes.

Councilor Wheeler?

Yes.

Hardt. Yes. And on the acceptance of Agenda Item 1 and approval of Agenda Item 2 and on adjournment, Councilor Davis?

Yes.

Councilor Wheeler?

Yes.

Hardt. Yes, those items are approved and we are adjourned. Thanks everybody. Thank you.

Chris, thank you. I got the paperwork already.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thanks, everyone.

Thanks. Have a nice night, everybody.