LIVE: Quincy City Council (Oversight Committee, Public Hearing, Finance Committee) - May 11, 2026

appears to be hanging from the neck of the Boston Peninsula. Frederick Law Olmsted died in 1903, but his legacy lives on.

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Thank you.

Thank you.

At this time, I'd like to call to order the 6 p.m. meeting of the Quincy City Council Oversight Committee on Monday, May 11th, 2026 at 6 p.m. Tonight's meeting concerns 2026057, a resolve requesting the comprehensive report of city transactions on property, property transactions rather. The purpose of this hearing is to better understand how city-owned property is acquired Lease, Manage and Sold to ensure the council and the public have a clear understanding of policies and decisions making involved in these transactions. Look forward to hearing from the administration and the relevant departments this evening. Thank you for everyone attendance and tonight and for those watching at home. Want to call the roll?

Councilor Ash, Councilor DiBona, Councilor Hubley, Councilor Mahoney. McKee, Riley, Ryan, Yuan, Jacobs.

At this time I'd like to open up the meeting to Oh, sorry, I have to read the Open Meeting Law. Pursuant to the Open Meeting Law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings and transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledgeable and permissible. I'd like to open this meeting up to questions from our counselors. Any counselors have any questions? Ryan.

Thank you, Mr. President. I was reviewing the documents today that were provided by Mr. Walker, and I just requested some additional information. one of which is the assessed value at the time of the sale or the time of the purchase. And there are a couple of other items I added to the request, which is like a little legend to confirm the definitions of column IV, which I believe would be immanent domain or voluntary. I don't know if that's correct, Mr. Walker.

through you, Mr. Chairman. No, and I do have that information. I was going to send it on over tomorrow as we continue to update the spreadsheet. IV is... improved or vacant, meaning is there a building there or is it vacant land?

Okay.

And these are, you're correct, Council, there's a lot of these that you mentioned are coding issues relative to how the assessor's office characterizes the property, but we can certainly provide all that information when we update the spreadsheet.

Okay, thank you.

Any other questions from our members? Yep, Councilor Riley.

So relative to the Bayview Ave and C Street property, do we have any update on the Maritime Center?

Through Mr. Champ. Go ahead. Through you, Mr. Chairman. So that process has been through a couple of iterations over the years. There was an original design dating back, I think, to working collaborations two ward counselors ago. and the team felt the design was a little too big for the site. There were some other design issues. And at that time, the city with the ward council went through some redesign processes and it was about at that same time that 2018 hit.

with the storms and there was a little bit of a recalibration in terms of where we needed to be focusing some of our resources and where we might be able to do the most immediate term good. in some ways, and it sort of shifted a little bit, went to drainage, seawalls, those sorts of things. still very much a viable hopeful project in that area and certainly as the ward councillor works through the process. We'll be happy to work and try to get something moving on that. I think we'd be looking for state grant money, federal grant money. There's some Homeland Security issues relative to that side as well, but still believe it's ultimately a viable entity in the end.

Thank you, Mr. Walker. But we don't have any idea what it might cost to fulfill that vision. No. or even fulfill a design of a vision? No. And we purchased that property in 2017, 18, 2018, I guess. What about the southern artery properties for the marina there or whatever we're calling that?

Yeah, so let me back up just a little bit on that. So with us tonight, we have Dave Murphy, the Commissioner of Natural Resources. We also have Rob Stephens, Deputy Planning Director and the Planning Director to handle urban redevelopment issues and Commissioner Murphy can certainly handle open space issues. There were a number of folks a couple of folks who were not able to attend this meeting based on some scheduling issues. Certainly follow up on, that's one of them that we would need some follow up on, other than to say that we are making money on that site. It's operating at a revenue plus and certainly provide a more detailed picture with the appropriate folks.

Thank you, Mr. Walker. I guess this is a good spreadsheet. It sounds like this was created as a result of our request, so I think it's good to have this you know comprehensive list of city-owned properties and where they're at but I think the purpose of it was to you know talk more about the potential purchase of Eastern Nazarene College. And it does seem like we've got an awful lot of property on the books that is, you know, we've taken the revenue away from the property tax roll. and many of these do not seem to have a clear plan. I'd be reluctant to add to this list with more properties.

through you, Mr. Chairman. Respectfully, I think if you... dropped these properties into sort of the buckets that they belong. Urban redevelopment, which is a large share of some of the properties we have listed here, That is a revenue generator for the city as we move forward. That's the purpose of urban redevelopment, to take a part of the city, the downtown, that was a drag on the city's economy. It was a drag on the city's tax base. and through state approval of an urban renewal district, through multiple votes of this body, the city took a very firm, bold stand and said, we are going to rebuild our downtown and we're going to make it a revenue generator. So in terms of properties that came off the tax rolls here, the properties that are going back on are producing a great deal of growth. And that's the purpose of urban redevelopment.

We talk about and the City. And, you know, we certainly, the Mayor certainly heard a lot over the years relative to too much development, that we're trying to squeeze too many things into too many places. We certainly don't agree with that assessment. try to locate development in the corridors of the city where it belongs. What goes a little bit Unread, unnoticed is the amount of open space that the city has acquired over the course of these last 10 years, last 15 years, based on this spreadsheet. that has prevented development in a number of places where the neighborhoods specific to those properties would not have wanted that. in some areas. In other areas, it's where we have historic assets that perhaps the Adams Street properties are a perfect example of that. That there was a permitted, approved project for upwards of

and dozens of units that would have ended up dominating that corridor heading down Adams Street toward the Adams Academy.

I could just interrupt for a minute, Mr. Walker, that neither one of those properties fall into that description that you're talking about. So, you know, the Maritime Center had single family homes that were occupied, that people lived in, and, you know, I think there was one holdout. and I don't know what the case was with the Marina, but neither one of those I don't think fall into that category.

I would respectfully disagree on the Marina property because that was at the time a property that was going for sale and a property that very much could have been redeveloped in the city. took the stand that there's not enough public access to the waterways in this community. We're looking for ways to do that. And the city capitalized on that opportunity. The Maritime Center, okay, but By the same token, you're still going into a place and trying to do something good for the community. It's a little bit more complicated. It got a little bit more complicated. Other things happened. That doesn't, I don't think, negate the appropriateness of the purchase of the property and trying to do something down there. The facilities that are down there are used by the city.

The city's maritime unit uses at least one of the houses down there for its use, and we're hopeful. just because it's been a little bit of time doesn't mean we're not going to be able to have the maritime center that the community of Housenac and the logic community wants. Now, it's not happening on a time frame that we originally anticipated. It's not happening in our time frame, but I'm sure the ward council or some of the neighbors are greatly happy with. But that doesn't mean, because if we had passed on that opportunity, if we had not done that, then perhaps we would not have an opportunity to do it. So there's a balance, I would say.

if you want me to keep going, the St. Mary's. I have some questions about these buildings. Go ahead. Yeah. So regarding 1303 C Street, that's the one that the Marine unit uses. Mm-hmm. have, I mean, you know, that we purchased this marina, I mean, have majority of the operations and marine unit moved over to Southern Adirondack?

I have to double check. can you get back to me on that?

Can you get back to me on that? Also, in regards to 128 BVW, what's going on in there? What's happening there? Because it looks terrible. And it just looks like, it just looks... Looks like it's falling down. Fair enough. You know, what's this, I mean, it's been, that was in 2018, so it's been, what, about eight, were so, yes, about eight years. So, I mean, what have we done with that house in eight years? I mean, how do we know the inside is, I mean, does someone from public buildings, are they maintaining it? Is anyone going in there? Why haven't we decided to rent that building to somebody who, would do something with it. I mean, it's been eight years. What is a long-term lease, like five years?

I think we would explore the opportunity for potential rental. I think you raise a good point, Councilor. We're happy to take a look at it. I don't know that much has been done with the house, but you raise a good idea.

I mean, we spend a lot of money in Quincy on positions that I think don't necessarily serve the function that they need to. And I think we own enough real estate that that is something we can do. that this building could be rented. What comes to mind to me, working in the tourism industry in Quincy for many years is that one of the things that we have difficulty with in Quincy is finding seasonal work to come and actually work here in Quincy. at the Adams Houses where I worked for years. We would interview hundreds of people and they would accept a job and then they'd leave because they found a job that had housing, federal government housing. and we had nothing to offer them and they would come here. Some of them would come here. They couldn't get leases. The park's open for five months out of the year or whatever. And here I see a house that's been sitting free and clear for eight years with maybe two or three bedrooms

that could have been rented to actually bolster our tourism industry, which this administration says they're proud of and they want to build. And I think that's true. but it's great to pay someone a three figure salary and say, hey, we believe in tourism, but then the people who are the front facing people who can't provide housing, we can't provide housing for them, at some type of, I don't wanna say reduced cost, but we seem to be in the business of providing relief at reduced cost and commercial property in Quincy. I don't understand why we couldn't do that, especially since the federal government's over here giving us upwards of $3 million a year to fund our basic, our real tourism industry, which is the Adams National Historical Park. So I think that that's something that we could do. Just one of a few things we could do, especially with that property, as it is a residence. Going back to the one on Adams Street, what properties were you talking about, the ones that were gonna be developed?

the exact addresses, Councilor, I believe it's 2428.

24 and 28?

I believe it was three properties in total. I believe that the Adams Academy, there was some issue with that. That appropriation took care of as well. And there were properties. that were purchased from the developer.

So those are the ones that were like next to the Adams Academy? Okay. And would you say it was 24 and 28? Yes. Just trying to look for them, you know.

and there were a couple, I don't know if it's clarifying, but there were a couple more Adams Street properties on this list that were bought as protection of open space. More closer to the actual historic district. I want to say that again, sorry. What's that? What was that? Closer to the historic district, there were one or two processes. I think we always considered it one property, but it might have ended up being two parcels.

Well, those houses are actually, I don't know if you're getting confused with the terminology, but those two properties that you just mentioned, those are in the historic district. So you mean historic district like the city's historic district or like the national park district?

The city's historic district.

What about the properties that are beyond the Beale House, in between Eventide Nursing Home?

Those are the ones, yeah, those are the ones I'm talking about.

Okay, so, I mean, those were purchased probably back in like, 2016 or so, 2015. What was the intended purpose for purchasing those, other than just preserving the historic viewshed?

That's exactly what it is.

Okay, so there was a house on one of those properties, right? Correct. Who took that house down? Did the city take it down?

The city took it down.

Okay, why?

It was falling down.

It was falling, it was in that pressure? Yeah. Okay, and what are we thinking that property is going to be used for, like, moving forward?

Open space.

By the city is going to maintain it as open space?

Okay.

Going back to St. Mary's School on Crescent Street. Sorry. So going back to St. Mary's School, do you know what year that was purchased in?

should say it on the spreadsheet.

I think it's 2017? Yes. 2017. Okay, and what was the initial reason for that acquisition?

the initial and continuing reason for that acquisition was for the future potential elementary school. We knew at that time and have maintain this, that that wasn't anything that was going to happen anytime soon. We have a number of building projects in the pipeline. those projects have to get done before we can really focus on getting MSBA. MSBA has limited resources, they have limited application process with us. This is a little bit of a different animal, too, because this would be an entirely new school. So the goal was to It was for sale. It was going to be bought. And this was, I guess I would consider it a target of opportunity that... we preserved the property for future city use and since that time have gotten great use out of the actual site.

So long term, still 100% want to do a school there. There should be one.

Because in this document that you gave us, you said that it's intended use at the time of purchase was for future school use in FIAT training center. So do you recall there actually being any talk of it being used as a fire training center moving up to the time that it was?

Probably not before it was purchased, no.

Okay, do you know when that probably first came in? Because I did a lot of research on that, and I couldn't find any detail when that was proposed to the public to be used as a fire training.

I think once someone from the fire department drove by, saw that we owned it, and said, this would be a great place to do this and we don't have an immediate need for the site.

Have we ever built a school without using money from the MSBCA?

The Richard DeCristofaro Center?

Okay, and when did that start getting talked about to be put in the pipeline? Was that before 2017?

I don't have any knowledge of it. I know the concept of something like the Richard DeCristofaro Center or something at the school committee had been, had discussed for many years, the actual, proposal concept for the Richard DeCristofaro Center was in that time range when it was proposed and then moved forward on.

Okay. But can you see how, like, you know, we purchased this building and you know, 2019. You see how people might be like, you know, it's been seven years and that, you know, there's really still, there's still really no plan. No. About what's going on there.

Understood. and in this case, you know, unlike the issues that we may have had at the Maritime Center, I think is a little bit different. In this particular case, there was no immediate plan to build the school. The mayor was very upfront at that time that we want to protect the site. it's one of these control our own destiny situations. We can do this now. and it would save a spot to have that elementary school that we want to build, knowing not only in the back of our heads but publicly that we were in the middle of, at that time, I'm sure, Southwest was still in the mix. We were working on Squanam. We were working on the Richard DeCristofaro Center that and particularly when it comes to MSPA and we don't have it and there could be a big hill to climb with the MSPA tomorrow if we apply for it because it is not an existing school. But we knew at that time and it made no,

Bones about it that this was going to be a long-term play on that school.

Okay, so one of the things I'm hearing is that, you know, we bought these things and then, you know, something happened. And obviously things happen all the time. And, you know, things get, because we, get this new project. I'm not saying it's the Rick to Christopher Learning Center, but we get this new project. It's like another project that we had kind of gets bumped further back, right? So it seems like we're kind of, you know, it becomes a I don't want to say, a resource issue. We don't have the staff to necessarily kind of handle all these projects at once. So how do you think this is going to work out when we try to go and purchase the Eastern Nazarene College and we're all of a sudden acquiring 20 some odd acres of land with 14 buildings and all that. What's that gonna do to some of the things on this list?

Nothing. I mean, I think that where it's to large scale apples and oranges, we're going to be able to show this body a clear, definitive framework of a plan. that's going to make sense from a practical perspective. It's going to make sense from a financial perspective. And we're looking forward to having that discussion as as soon as the council decides, schedule some hearings on it, and we'll be able to make that case. We've gotten use out of St. Mary's. This is not the St. Mary's thing. I'm repeating myself a little bit, but the St. Mary's issue is not a lack of resources. It's not a lack of staff. It's not a lack of anything other than the MSBA and the city. We have schools in the pipeline, certain things have to get done first before we can do that. And we were very clear about that.

So let me just ask you this question real quick. The other day we were here, and you guys, the administration, as I say, asked for appropriation for a feasibility study for roofs. at four of our public schools. What's the point of a feasibility study?

This is the MSBA accelerated repair program. It's a little bit of a different program than the new school building program. So if you went to the MSBA program...

Right, but I'm just asking, what's the point of a feasibility study? Why are we spending the money? What are we getting from it?

We are getting, for the ultimate project, we get state reimbursement. The state requires us to go through the feasibility stage. We can't just tell the MSBA, we need four new rules at these schools. and they're just going to say, yes, we have to, there's a process as with anything at the state level. There are a number of layers to it and the feasibility piece is the first layer of it, the school committee, votes, then the council votes, then we enter the feasibility process. That feasibility process will then come up with the construction cost, design, and the schematic.

How much it costs for us to take the solar panels off, take the rocks off the roof, remove the rubber roof, how much material we need to put the new rubber roof down, and how much to put the solar panels back on. but did we do, so back in 2019, we bought the St. Mary's School. I couldn't find anything, any appropriation feasibility study about how that building was going to be used, what was going to be done on that property, just an appropriation for $2.7 million to buy it. So we bought the property with a... the idea of a plan. We have a good idea, but there was no actual plan or study ever done about what was gonna happen.

So again, that is because we were already in the MSBA process with Sconum at that point in time, and we knew that they weren't going to take us right now. And that process I believe this year you will see the beginnings of the MSBA process with and this is a school department decision so I don't want to talk out of turn and school department involvement so I don't want to speak out of out of school so to speak but it's there waiting for that process to begin. And it's been on a timeline that everyone sort of understood from the beginning that would be taking place. We knew from the beginning that we weren't going to be entering a process the day after we closed on the building. We knew we would need to find some interim use for that facility. Unfortunately, we have.

and so, I mean, as the MSPC, they're the only ones that do feasibility studies. We would never just do one on our own.

Again, because you're locked into that state process, we would be guided through a feasibility study by the MSBA. There's a technical component, right? There's the technical MSBA feasibility study. And then, yeah, there is some work. that can be done on the city's end. But again, it's all locked into whatever process you're going to go through.

So the Eastern Nazarene College Appropriation that's before the Finance Committee in the upcoming meeting is asking for $22.5 million. one and a half million dollars of that is to do a feasibility study on how the property can, I don't know if I wanna say managed or used, but the administration is currently peddling that we're going to be able to sell 13 or 14 of the homes over, I can't remember if it's 13 or 14, at a net gain of seven to nine million dollars. What happens when that feasibility study comes back in a couple of months or a year's time, and they discover, oh, actually, we can't sell these houses because, you know, This is where the over 55 community has to go.

And they said, the other thing, I was listening to Joe Catalano's show on QATV, and he asked the mayor point blank, he said, what's the extra million and a half dollars for? And the mayor said, oh, it's for a feasibility study. And Joe Catalano said, don't you think we should have done that before we actually went to purchase the property? I mean, what stops the city from nine months ago or whenever you guys started talking to Eastern Nazarene College about approaching the city council for an appropriations bill, Appropriations so that way we could have tried to do some type of feasibility study before we're being asked for $22.5 million to buy something that we don't know what we can use it for.

At that point in time, we were not engaged with Eastern Nazarene College. They were pursuing private development. The opportunity came to the city after that private development, rightfully so. fell through. Our position... Do you know when the date was for that?

I don't. Or generally, like was it in the summer? I don't. Off the top of my head. How long, the feasibility study, how long is something like that gonna take?

I don't know if feasibility study is the only thing and if the word feasibility and study are if we're talking about a specific thing like we're talking about when we would be talking about a feasibility study relative to the MSBA process. I think in general terms, the mayor's probably talking about his feasibility in general, and whatever work is needed around that for some of the internal main campus facilities. What could make for the senior housing? are there? There are going to be environmental costs associated with the planning. There are going to be legal. There is going to be some carry costs. I think I referenced it publicly as contingency, that there's a lot of things that go along with this. and there's gonna be a need for a little bit of funding to get us off the ground going.

But I don't believe that the sale of the single family homes is connected to any, will be connected to any sort of feasibility study because as we're looking at it, that's gonna be a fairly turnkey operation when it comes to that time. We're going to buy the property and then we're gonna move to sell those properties.

So, I mean, you know, how long do you think is viable time? Because we've got properties here we've been holding on to for eight, nine, ten years here, and it's like...

Right. And I think we have to show you to... to prove to this body that it's a viable purchase, that it makes sense, that it makes sense financially, that it makes sense practically, that it is the right thing to do, that it is a great, deal for the city. Overall, it's a great deal for the neighborhood. It protects the neighborhood from a number of things that could go on there. that wouldn't be necessarily beneficial to the neighborhood or the city. It controls our destiny. It provides for community use. This is a opportunity that we feel strongly, and we need to show that to you, that we feel, and we feel the community will feel, that this is an opportunity that we should not pass up. But we will have to show you, and there's no disagreement there, that we're gonna be able to make money back almost immediately. to show that this makes sense. And I think we're going to be able to do that.

Well, I mean, that's great that you think we're gonna be able to do that, and it's great that the administration says we may be able to do this, we may be able to do that, but I'm waiting for when the administration says we are going to do this, we are going to do that. Councilor Ryan, do you have a question?

Actually, I'd like to go back to the properties list and I'd like to take a look at the second page, item number 570. and I'd like to know what the reasoning was for the purchase of a former car wash for $1.7 million for a future park.

I'm going to defer to Commissioner Murphy on that one, Councilor Kutcher.

Through you, Mr. Chairman. Councilor, that was a car wash located next to the Cleveley Court soccer fields. The soccer fields on Cleveley Court are used by the U8 and the U6 members of the Quincy Youth Soccer League, the smallest of the smallest kids. there was a small parking lot adjacent to the soccer fields, but not nearly enough to provide enough parking. So families were parking on both sides of Cleveley Court, which was creating a bit of a safety issue as kids, particularly the younger kids, were dodging between cars to get across to the soccer field. So there wasn't enough parking for that facility. So that car wash was targeted as a parking lot which is what it's used for today and it's a safer location now.

Did you have the amount that it was assessed at for the property?

I would defer to City Hall. I was involved in the purchase side of things.

You'll get that. Okay, thank you. And so in the future, it's going to be a PAC.

The 570 is predominantly the parking lot. We talked about putting a companion playground in there, what I call a sibling playground, if you will. but there's an opportunity that has also come up across Cleveley Court, a former property which is also on your list in MWRA lot that was given to the city Ash, that we've been working with Councilor Ash on developing a park location there, which would have that playground.

All right, thank you.

Thank you. Yep, Councilor Mahoney?

I'm so sorry I was a little bit late. For some reason I thought this started at 6.30. So I don't know what you started with, but I want to start just by thanking the administration for getting all the information together for me and for all of us here tonight. and I guess we're going through the mayor's assistant to get the answers. Is that how we're doing this time? Okay, so how much in total debt service is currently tied up specifically for property acquisition since 2010? All right. Great. I want to know annual payment obligations, maturity dates, variable versus fixed, those types of things. What is the projected operating cost over the next five to 10 years of all of these properties owned by the city of Quincy? Utilities, Deferred Maintenance, Staffing, Security, Capital Improvements Do you not know? No. So we don't have that in the budget? We're not taking care of any of these locations?

I would say that a lot of these would be just baked into the normal operational budgets with those departments. Well, I'm saying that the... a good bulk of them, the ones that are operational, the ones that are against CPUs.

Yeah, what I'm saying, though, is that these are completely separate standalone buildings, places that we purchased from the city, not the buildings that we know we maintain, so I would think that there would be a separate accounting for those, but okay. How many acquired properties are currently generating revenue versus operating at a net loss in the city? that we've purchased.

Through you, Mr. Chairman, definitely the Monroe Building, as we talked about last week, and the Town River Marina are the two buildings are major revenue sources. There are some minor revenues that we can put together for you coming from the Wallace and Congregational Church, which was recently purchased with the collaboration of the Ward 3 Council at the time

Thank you.

to protect the church group and to protect it as a community space. That was one of those projects that was slated for redevelopment, would have been sold, would have been turned into condos, and the neighborhood worked with the city very diligently to see if we could come up with a plan to purchase it. Right now, there is minor levels of individual community groups that are contributing a little bit. So I don't see that as a substantial revenue source. I would say the two driving revenue source properties here are the Marina and the Monroe Building.

So the other properties that we took offline that were potential businesses that were having commercial property tax coming in and we took offline, how much have we lost that we've taken over?

Well, I would argue, and I mentioned this a little bit earlier, perhaps before you came in, that a lion's share of those properties that you mentioned are subject to urban renewal. and the amount of projects that, or the amount of parcels that we've purchased all fits into the pie of urban renewal. There's a reason why they were taken or a reason why they were purchased and it was to create new revenue in the downtown, that the city made a determination 15, 20 years ago that the downtown was a lag, the downtown was a drag, It was not producing the kind of tax revenue that it should.

So I see the DIF. I'm not trying to interrupt you, but I see the DIF and I recognize what the DIF is. What I was asking for was the other pieces where the capital bonds were being used. to purchase the properties. And the reason why, I don't wanna get caught into a long story of why we, the DIF, I understand that, but what I'm asking for is debt service that's currently tied to property acquisitions, and then also, that currently, those buildings down in downtown, those will definitely, if everything comes true, as we all hope it does, the DIF will pay for itself. It's been said many, many a times in this council chamber and by the mayor and through every place we go, we know that. That's pretty much the mantra, right? Downtown DIF will pay for itself with all the new growth. However, I'm talking about all of the other purchases that we have that are coming from capital, how much bond is tied up in that. I'd like to know the diff as well, separated out, but then also how many of the properties that we bought are generating revenue versus a net loss.

And what that means by that is, did it come off the tax rolls? Didn't come off the tax rolls. And maybe you'd say it's not generating a net loss, but if it's sitting empty, vacant, and not being taken care of, they're used for the purposes that it was built for. then chances are it's a net loss.

Sure, I would ask you, and we'll take a look at the specific ones, but the bigger ones here, areas where the value is to the community, not necessarily to the taxes. The project on Hunt Street, that included the purchase of a number of homes and a decent amount of private property. That was for a community benefit. We, as a city, made a determination, this body included, that it was worth purchasing those properties, taking them off the tax rolls, and creating a first-class athletic facility and other amenities for the students of North Quincy High School that had never had one of their own. So we can go down each list. If there's some vacant ones that maybe aren't producing revenue, I think that's fair game.

That's actually one that's actually been taken care of, though. I'm talking about the ones that are sitting and not actually being they're just sitting. The one on Hunt Street, we created a field, a soccer field, and it's being utilized by the high schools and outside.

In general, yeah, in general I think Chairman Jacobs brought up a couple. Chairwoman Riley brought up a couple. But the lion's share of this list would not fall into those categories. There are one or two that I've seen, but if there are others, we'll address those.

What properties purchased since 2020 remain unused, underutilized, or without finalized redevelopment plans?

Yeah, we'd have to take a look at the list, but I don't think it's a lot.

Okay. How were acquisitions prioritized when free cash reserves are reportedly only 55,000? this is separate from that. I guess I'm trying to get at, like when we get to the ANC, and that's my next one for ANC, So before considering, and I'm just gonna go through, because I know I'm late, but before considering the Eastern Nazarene purchase, what lessons have we learned from our prior acquisitions? Which projects met expectations, which did not? and the reason why I ask it is this is often a conversation that people have when they're purchasing things or what they're trying to accomplish with it or where they're going with things.

I think that we could pick off some issues with a couple of these, but by and large, going down this list, when you look at the big major purchases over the course of Dating back to when the spreadsheet was created, that the value created to the community by a lot of this has been beneficial. And so I don't know there would be a great reimagining of any of this. Again, you mentioned the North Quincy High Project. There's the Public Safety Headquarters, which required a number of property acquisitions, and by the way, which required property acquisitions for us be able to take care and reform what Father Bills is doing? There was acquisition there.

Those are all the ones that were done. I'm talking about the ones that are sitting not being taken care of. So I don't want to focus on the ones that are done. I'm talking about the ones that were taking, the ones that are sitting that we acquired. How about just going forward with, I think I'm gonna jump on to Councilor Jacobs. Feasibility for the E&C, environmental liabilities, renovation costs, infrastructure needs, long-term operating costs, have any of those things been determined? I know you're going to be presenting them to us, but I think it's important. What is the estimated total cost of ownership for the ENC over the next 20 years, not just the purchase price? you know, it goes on. And then transparency in reporting. This one's really important. I know you love the word transparency, but why is this information about all of the perches that we have in the City of Quincy. Why is it that these are not already centralized and ready and available for the Council that we had to take, I'm not sure, but I think it was much more than five days for it to be turned around? to the council? Just curious about that.

none of these projects live, none of these purchases live in one place. These are very distinct individual projects that fall within, some of them, multiple ones fall within urban redevelopment. from the Planning Department. The Planning Department would have no reason to have a database showing the North Quincy High School properties that were bought for Hunt Street. The Public Safety Headquarters is a public buildings project. That lives in its own bucket. So yeah, these come from disparate places, touching many different departments across the city. And there just wouldn't be any reason, other than being asked, can you put that into a centralized form? And we were asked, and we did.

Well, actually, the centralized reason would be because we're purchasing all of these things, and in some cases, many people don't even know what we've purchased unless we go back and read old newspapers or old Quincy Suns. So which department is ultimately responsible for tracking post-acquisition performances of city-owned properties? You're going to tell me no one, right? because they're all in different departments. They're all in different buckets.

Yeah, it depends on the department. Huh? It depends on the department.

Okay, okay. It should be just like anything. Especially if it's bond related, we should be able to tie those things out. Can the city commit to an annual public report on municipal real estate holdings going forward? Because we seem to be in the acquisition stage, and we buy a lot of things that we're not utilizing them for, but they have great intentions. and I think what you're hearing from here at the council is that as we're being asked to think about what your next acquisition is, we're coming back saying, what about all of these? and as far as a governance question, if we're buying things without clearly defined intended use at the time of the purchase, The expense drives faster the longer you have something and don't utilize it for what you think it's going to be. it deteriorates. So we have buildings and places all over the city that we purchased and they sat and they deteriorate. That's what happens.

I realize that the St. Mary's School will never be used for a school and right now it's being used as a fire.

with the premise, Councilor, and in a big picture sort of way. Again, we've picked off a couple individual issues with individual purchases where timing and circumstances have not worked out, but if you look through the up and down of this list, there may be a couple more specifically that you can point out to me where things aren't in the right place or they should be in a place where it's your position or other council's position that something should be done differently. But when I look down this list, I see projects that have provided great benefit to the city by and large. And again, I'm not disputing that the council has pointed out a couple, a number of these that have, but I disagree with coloring this whole spreadsheet as like we have all these buildings that we just don't know what we're doing.

So we're going to disagree. I understand that. And I'm okay with disagreeing. But what I'm asking, very simple, is that We have acquisitions. We're told if we don't buy them within the next X amount of days, something terrible is going to happen. or I just go back to the Greenleaf Building that I spent six years up here saying, are we almost done? Are we almost done? Are we almost done? Are we almost done? You bought it in 2017. and I think one of the counselors were cheeky and said something like, is this gonna be listed or save it or something? And you went in in 2017 and you bought it because you wanted to move the building department into this building and you had six weeks to do it. Six weeks is what was told. Anybody can go back and watch the council meeting. I did, I watched it. And then 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024. I think you're in there. Did you get in there in 2025? I'm not sure. Yes. 2025. So in 2025, you moved into that building.

But you had to buy that building on that day, at that night, at a council meeting. And I don't want to go back in time, Chris, but this is definitely something that is habitual in this council chamber where things come to the council and it's, we have X amount of time and if you don't get it done, there's a chance that something horrible's gonna happen. and it's happening right now. It's happening over the weekend with 15 second snippets of if we don't buy ENC, something bad's gonna happen. And that is deliberate. and that is not actually working with us. And if you wanna work with us, then we need to be honest about what we're doing. So I'm putting that card out there too. We have our doors open all the time. you can call me and you can reach me whenever you want. But if I'm listening to a podcast and I'm hearing that this is what's gonna be happening, I find that to be a little bit disingenuous.

I would disagree because it's been nothing that hasn't been said from the first day that the mayor announced that the city should purchase the property. That's not, there was no news.

So back in February?

Yeah, there was no news.

So back in February?

February, yes.

Back in February. So I didn't hear him say if we don't do it, the Dover amendment might step in. maybe he didn't use the specific term Dover Amendment, but there's- But the Dover Amendment already stepped in because they had the- There is- They had people living there that became a problem. over at that time. And that's how it got used. And it was for sale. And I'm just basically saying that we need the right time to be able to analyze things with the right information. And the reason why I'm bringing that up is because You have to ask for everything. We have to ask for all of these pages of things. We have to ask for the information. We have to dig for it. And then we have to ask for you to bring some more things back. I didn't mean to take up for the whole time. I just wanted to make sure I got my questions asked. Thank you.

Councilor Hubley and then McKeon. Yeah, sure.

Thank you. So I didn't have a ton of time to look through this entire list, so I honed in on the Ward 3 properties. I intend to dig in a little bit more and try to map it out to get a better understanding of their status. I too also had questions about the coding on it, so I look forward to merging that information in. but first a comment about one of the properties. There's only two in Ward 3, kind of a quiet place from an acquisition perspective. His first zero, Harriet Ave. I remember being part of the team, you know, former Councilor Kevin Coughlin through the Montclair-Wallace Enabled Association, his son, James Coughlin, as well as the Neponset Watershed. team, as well as the Wallace and Hill Neighbor Association, for which I was a part of at the time. And I know the neighbors down there from Knocking on Doors. are tremendously happy that we were able to preserve that property. And so I'll leave that one at that. That was a really good acquisition. What was going to go in there would have

completely changed the composition of that neighborhood, of those wetlands. It was a very contentious thing, and I'm really glad that the city and the council at the time was able to step in and make that purchase happen. And I've personally worked on a number of cleanups, removing invasive species down there, as well as a lot of trash. And recently, one of our corporate partners, Ahold, brought a team of employees down there for which we're grateful. They did a huge cleanup down there and did a great job. So I would look at that one as a really good opportunity for acquisition. And the only other one that's in Ward 3 is a building that's kind of near and dear to my family's heart. It's the former Wollaston Congregational Church. The church had gotten to a point where its membership wasn't really able to sustain its mission. It's the church I believe I was baptized in. All my siblings were married in. I was married in.

and I still am in contact with a lot of the former folks from the Wally Kong and when they reached out to me Cain at the time, their main goal was to see that this building, which had been serving the citizens of the Wollaston Hill neighborhood that it continue to provide services. So I know there's a lot going on in that building. There's a bit of programming. I'm still trying to understand it a little bit more in what's going on now. but the neighbors are very interested in getting a sense for the timing of things and it would be, I think it would be helpful, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, if there was a way to kind of set the neighbors' expectations. So I guess through you to Mr. Walker, do we have a sense for when we'd be able to start to maybe have community meetings, engage the community on what's to become there.

I think folks have a lot, I have a couple of neighbors reaching out to me asking if they could use function space, not function spaces, meeting spaces, because I know it's not all accessible. I actually wouldn't mind using it for community meetings since it's like three houses away from my house. So talk a little self-centered there, right? But yeah, we're very interested, and the neighborhood's very interested in what's gonna happen with that building. And again, not only are the folks who are part of the congregation very thankful that it's gonna provide some sort of function of service to the neighborhood, but they're also very interested in what the potential is there. So if you have any words on that, that'd be helpful.

Through you, Mr. Chairman, any time, Councilor. Yeah, okay.

All right, I think that's all I got. Thank you, Councilor Hubley. Councilor McKee?

Yes. So actually, I kind of am going to follow on a little bit about Wollaston Congregational Church. My son went to and we had great times there but I know that the building was also in really and so I'm just wondering it sounds like we'll be getting this information but how much is it costing to repair and take care of the building compared to whatever use fees are coming in.

Sure, through you, Mr. Chairman. At this point, the work that's been done has been general public buildings, one-off maintenance, Band-Aid type of are still looking at the bigger envelope and the bigger picture and feel very confident that it's not in as bad a shape as as maybe was probably initially interpreted. But those sorts of things and the level of use, those things all play together. But right now, there hasn't been a major and the building other than the normal day-to-day upkeep and perhaps a boiler, a small item like that. But yes, and we can track down exactly what's been done and where we are in the process of what major, if any, I mean it would be our goal to keep this thing, the community space, without a major capital investment in the building to see what we can do internally. We've got a great team at Public Buildings. to do some things?

Yeah, a lot of flooding when it would rain and some issues with sewer issues and that sort of thing. But anyway, it sounds like that'll be coming potentially. Another question that I had about that is sort of a broader question about how We know about things like the city bought that, but the Ward 3 Councilor didn't know that he could use it at any time. And I've wondered if we could use it as well. and with the Monroe Building, it seems like you kind of have to know to go to certain people to ask certain questions if you can use the space or rent the space or whatever. That does seem to raise like an equity issue and I guess I'm just kind of wondering how does one, like who oversees that building?

How do people who want to use it ask to use it?

Yeah, right now it's been, excuse me, through you, Mr. Chairman, it's been status quo as we sort of get our arms around it. But as Councilor Hubley mentioned, I think it's time. to begin discussing what further uses, what additional uses can be accommodated there. But yeah, from the beginning, it's sort of been a turnkey. Again, it was one of these situations where The timing was important because the church had obligation. We worked with the ward council. He was very supportive. The neighborhood was very supportive. and we felt we could handle it and we think we can handle it going forward. But yeah, those plans probably need to start coming to shape pretty soon.

Yeah, okay. And then I had a question from just a Quincy resident about the Monroe Building asking about how was the $60,000 per year property management fee set? Because typically that's done on a percentage basis for, you know, commercial buildings for how much rent is coming in. And that that would seem to be way higher than than that amount. And was there like an open bidding process?

There was there was an RFQ process that went out for property management. for the Monroe Building and the Mariner. How the math works on all that, I'd have to dig a little bit for you, Councilor. I'm happy to do that.

Okay. And then... I guess just with ENC, the idea that we could kind of quickly sell the individual homes that are on that property, I've heard different things about wanting to sell them to first-time homebuyers, etc. I like the idea of affordable housing, but I guess how quickly would that process be able to take place if we were making it kind of an affordable or first-time homebuyer type of property? Realistically, how fast could we do that?

We're still fleshing out all those details, Councilor, but I would say that, you know, without putting a specific date on it, I mean that, from our discussions and the plans that we're working on, immediately, is the word that's been used multiple times. Now immediately, doesn't mean tomorrow morning. Immediately means the inappropriate amount of time within the framework of whatever plan this body, whatever plan the mayor and this body agree on is the best way to move forward. But we have have frameworks in place. We have the talent in place. We have the logistics in place to run a robust home buyer program. fairly, I would say very quick fashion. I do not believe that this is going to take years. I think...

you can do something along the lines of what we're gonna be showing this body that we can do within months.

and then another question is I guess this list of properties that we've purchased is I believe 73 properties in the last 15 years. if the Council looks into this and determines that buying ENC is not a great idea financially for whatever reason. Is the administration open to potentially selling off some of these other properties to make the difference?

We would have to take a look at that. I think selling off of property is an avenue that we have used previously to do certain things. I certainly wouldn't, and I know the Mayor wouldn't slam the door on that. I think it's our hope that we'll be able to show you a number of items. that will show the financial feasibility of this. And ultimately, that could be one of them. I don't off the top of my head think that that is gonna be necessary, but it's entirely possible.

And I guess just a kind of a general question, which may be for the ENC talk, but I know some of these properties that are bought through the DIF, I think the rules of being able to sell them to anyone and sort of open bid that is limited in certain urban revitalization districts. The mayor could choose to sell to a particular developer. rather than opening it up if it was deemed to be beneficial. So I guess how, I guess I just want to say that I have concerns about the ability of the Council to

I know that we have to approve those things but I think in the past some of the sales have not have always been like they haven't made money. Whether or not they've lost money depending on the lot size is a different question but it's sort of questionable and the fact that it is sort of questionable makes me concerned. maybe that's more of a statement, but those are things that are going on in my mind.

Councilor, are you on?

Hello, through you, Chairman. So, Mr. Walker, on this spreadsheet is about 80... properties, city involved in purchasing. And around 10 properties didn't list sales and purchase price, including several properties taken by eminent domain. I'm wondering, is it because those properties, there is a lawsuit going on with those eminent domain and the purchase price is not set so you don't disclose?

through you, Mr. Chairman. I did update, I believe, this afternoon, for some reason, the original spreadsheet I sent Friday. No, this is the news.

This is today? Yeah. Which one? So the first... There are, there might be, if you pick out some specific ones, there could be some duplicates where it becomes a question of the deed and the... Yeah, let me point to the first page at the bottom, 37 Broad Street, and then down 45 Broad Street. It list taken by eminent domain, but it didn't list price.

Yeah, so through you, Mr. Chairman, 37 and 39 Broad Street, which you see are separate, that's actually just one property. So one property has the price next to it, and the other property doesn't. 24. and 20, I need new glasses.

Well, I know in some of the other ones that were like that, you had it, they were boxed together, so that way it looks like they're just out of order.

through you, Mr. Chairman, we can certainly clean up to better reflect that, but what I think you are looking at are different addresses that happen to be the same property, so the price is listed under one address and then you get to the next address and there's no price listed on it because that price was already covered under the first one.

So just to clarify, so you mean 37 Broad Street and the 45 Broad Street, it's the same parcel?

I know that Okay. 30, 35, and 37, did you mention?

37 and 45. 37 and 45.

37 and 45. I have to double check on that, but the reason, the reason, And if I could see this, it would be helpful, but I can't. Fair enough. The rationale, my answer, we will figure out the specifics, but my answer speaks to the reason why that exists like that, because there are multiple addresses that are actually just one property.

Okay, I'm wondering if it's because taken by eminent domain.

All those were taken by eminent domain.

How about the second page? in the middle, 24 Adams Street is order of taking and didn't list the price.

Same thing. Two parcels, one project.

and the order of taking the cytamine is also taken by eminent domain. Would that mean order of taking?

I do not. Order of taking generally means eminent domain, but in this case, there is such a thing as a friendly taking. The language is just a little bit different. If it was pure eminent domain, I do not... let me get the answer on that because I believe that was negotiated and it was not eminent domain. The order of taking on this sheet refers to, that's a note from the assessor's database, that refers to the councilor that approved the order. So it could just be some semantics there.

Okay, I have a little comment, just a follow-up with President Mahoney's comment. So on this spreadsheet, there are around 80 different properties. City involved, but the public didn't have the opportunity to review this spreadsheet of all the property transactions involving the city beforehand. It is difficult for residents to follow the discussion if they are hearing the information for the first time during the meeting itself. Even for counselors, we only received this document on Friday close to 5 p.m. and it was still missing significant information. Then this afternoon, about three hours ago, we received an update version that still lack substantial details.

This result was put forward on April 6, so the administration should have had sufficient time to prepare a complete document, rather than waiting until the last minute to put it together. I would greatly appreciate it if going forward the administration could make every effort to upload all supplemental materials together with the meeting agenda at least 48 hours before the meeting, excluding weekends and holidays. This would help ensure residents have adequate access to the information and are able to participate meaningfully in the public process. Thank you.

Any other questions from any of the Councilors? Councilor Ash.

Thank you. Through you, Mr. Chair. I just have one quick question for Mr. Walker, and that is, under funding source, does federal grant, is that uniformly ARPA funds, or are there different types of federal funding? I'm asking in particular to, with respect to 662 and 663, 74, Southern Artery.

Those were APA. I think it uniformly that the federal grant in these cases is uniformly APA.

Okay, so those two, and then there's also the, I believe the only other one outside of 1177 and 1227 is the Verk car rentals. 231, Southern Artery. Just confirmation maybe of what federal grants with respect to the key would be very helpful. Thank you.

Any other questions? Yep, Councilor Mahoney.

Could you tell me what the purpose of purchasing Furnace Ave was?

That was for flood mitigation. That was part of the 2011. Was Quincy flood mitigation capital improvement plan?

And has the pump station been built?

No, because a pump station is not going to be built there. What happens, so, We applied for a FEMA grant, won a FEMA grant to build a pump station. FEMA then added a litany of conditions to whatever they wanted in this pump station and it increased the price of the pump station two to threefold. Working with our team, we recalibrated that specific component of that overall project. did a lot of different things in that area without doing the pump station. the success of the Furnace Brook work that we did, the success of the subsequent Furnace Brook project that we did.

So I appreciate the success of the project, but I want to go back to Furnace Ave, because that's what we're talking about.

No, it's still a component of the overall.

So what I remember from Furnace Ave is that we purchased Furnace Ave and it was tied to the Saturn building that became the... Compass or some kind of medical building eventually and they needed to split it. And the city came in and bought it and said it was for a pump station and it was under water already and a pump station typically wouldn't go there. But we can revisit that. But that was actually a... I think there's some questionable stuff that was done there, and obviously that isn't being used for what it was supposed to be used for. And I just wanted to make sure we talked about that too, because that was 2011. So I'm all set, thank you.

It is being used what it was intended for. For a pump station? No, but it's being used as part of flood mitigation. Yeah, a field that flows water. There was nothing questionable about The use of that property folded into really a dynamic flood mitigation project across West Quincy, which has produced great results.

Except for the pump station we were supposed to have there. I'm just saying that it was, again, one of those things that we had to purchase in the last minute, in the last hour, in the last day to make sure that we got this taken care of because we needed it for flood mitigation for a pump station that never went there. just pointing it out. Thank you.

Any other questions from the councillors? Councillor Riley.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. There was one other property that we didn't get to and that was the of Fire, Future Fire Department, and Quincy Ave. And I guess, I don't know if these other properties are all related to it, but that's one. The first page, it's about three quarters of the way down. 47, Quincy Ave, and then I think Summer Street and Faxon Lane, they all tie into it. And these were all purchased from Massachusetts Electric. I don't know how, why they were selling them off, Do we have an update on that project?

So the city is in receipt of a four and a half million dollar planning grant for the design of what would become, and this all folds into the Public Safety Headquarters project, what would be a new engine one facility, not fire department headquarters, because fire department headquarters is now technically in the public safety headquarters building, the administrative staff, all the public facing staff. Dispatch will ultimately be part of that as well. So it was determined during the early study phases of the public safety headquarters, the original designs, and some folks will remember this, were to include a firehouse at where the public safety headquarters is now. But we enlisted some folks in that world to do, you know,

Response Time Radii, trying to figure out what would make the most sense, and it was pretty clear that we were gonna lose some substantial response time if we did not have an engine and a ladder truck in that general vicinity of where headquarters is located right now. and so we sort of recalibrated and as part of the Public Safety Headquarters said, all right, so we're going to need at some point because that building is in tough shape. And it's no longer going to be serving the broader purpose that we should be looking at a new Engine 1, which is a smaller type of building. to service that area of the city to make sure that we don't lose a response time. So there has been some preliminary designs kicked around. We have a federal grant.

Kersey, and Congressman Lynch that is working on the design, but there's nothing imminent on that at the moment.

Thank you. On the sold list, there was the McGrath Highway, or was it the Ryan Parkway? Which one was the one that was the AA Center?

right there by the intersection of Washington.

Can you maybe give us an explanation as to why that property was acquired and then sold off? I don't know whether we made any money off of that.

We broke even. Well, maybe. So that, as we purchased, the city purchased it as... was a possible location for some community services, including AA and some other things. Not long after that, the state determined that it was going to need extra space for any parking that it was going to be building at a new courthouse. Originally, their original designs didn't incorporate that whole site, and we quite frankly pushed back on that the courthouse design and some of the issues there. And they then determined that they were going to need that extra property. And so it was baked into land acquisition that they went on for when they came up with a schematic preliminary design for that building.

Thank you. I guess the only closing statement I will make, I don't think I have any more specific questions on the properties, is in looking at this list, there is definitely a lot of successes we can see. I think the only one in Ward 6 was the North Quincy High playing field. We delivered the Cristofaro Center, we delivered the safety headquarters, obviously. There's been a lot of successes here from this, but there's also a lot of properties that seem to be sort of languishing, waiting for their turn. Unlike the Acapulcos that in breakneck speed was purchased, demolished, redeveloped, and funded all of that, I would say that it seems like it's more about control of these properties and the fear that if we let someone else take them over that we're not going to be able to control the destiny of it. But I would say that if we're going to be faced with

I think we've got to find a way to divest some of these holdings so that we can justify shifting it over. And I also think that we'll need to have some parameters around the order if we were to approve it, some timing, milestones of when a feasibility study would be done or whatever, and regular reporting back to the council because obviously one-off, none of these projects seemed you know probably anyone had any real resistance but collectively this is a big chunk of investment property that the city is holding. And it costs money. It costs money to hold property. Thank you.

Are you guys, any of the other Councilors have questions before I ask a few others myself? I want to look at the second page at Cleverley Court. It's like 2 thirds the way down the page. It was acquired on April 9, 2024. You know, that's the one from the MDOT right now. So there's no information there, just this Future Park. So we own that lot now?

We do.

Okay. Did we pay for it? Did they give it to us? They gave it to us. They gave it to us. Okay. So it's sitting empty. right now, 1.8 acres, I think is what, is that what, land area 1.8? So, I mean.

Because there's a project that's being designed there through Ward 2, Councilor Richard Ash, and the Commission of Public Resources.

Okay, a park is being, do we have any idea of when that park is planning to come online?

I held a community meeting in February with the commissioner and the land design contractor. It was a nice community meeting, probably had two dozen or so, 30 people attend, just really waiting to see the aggregate of that meeting. I believe that the commissioner has all the notes and whatnot and discussing next time. Steps.

Mr. Chairman, that's 100% accurate. With any hope, we'll have a final design and cost estimates late spring or early summer, at which point we'll have to seek funding, whether it's through this body or other capital funds.

I just was, the only reason I was asking was we just had a tremendous amount of snowfall over the winter, and I know that we were towing cars, and I know there is some capacity that we don't have to store cars and like we have all this land and I think the ordinance says you have to own a storage lot in Quincy in order to tow for the city, if I'm not mistaken. And it's like, so we've kind of limited our ability use tow companies because they have to have space in the city to store their car, and we seem to have an ample amount of space where we could feasibly just say, you know, for a fee, like we're gonna let you store the car and we could have made additional money from that and we could have maybe increased the amount of capacity we had to tow cars. Because again, we're limited to how much we can tow because we only have like, two or three tow companies that we can even utilize in Quincy.

I will say most recently, Mr. Chairman, that lot was also used for the dredge material from Sailor's Pond. It was loaded with basically the sludge from the pond. There wasn't a lot of space available. There were some tailings and some pipes that DPW had stored there.

Okay, well I'm just saying we have other unused property. I also want to talk briefly about I know another Councilor just talked about that. It looks like it's .18 acres, and we purchased that for $300,000. I assume that was with ARPA money. Where did we come up with $300,000 for that? I mean, where did we come up with that's what it was worth?

My sense is there would have been an appraisal. That was a developable piece of property.

because I mean, I'm just saying, I just looked at an appraisal for the city for 0.25 acres where we're looking at $160,000. And I would say that that land is comparable because they're both within like, you know, flood zone. You know what I mean? And I would argue that the $160,000 property is actually better because it wasn't a dilapidated asphalt parking lot. and so I just wonder where we're coming up with $160,000 for one parcel that's literally almost twice the size and we're offering $300,000 to Virk Rentals.

I'm sure we can figure that out.

I'm just wondering why that wasn't used as a comp.

I wouldn't have that appraisal with me.

That's good. My last one here, my last question is is 172 C Street, the former home of Dwayne Thompson, a neighbor of mine, a good friend of mine for many years. His house unfortunately burned down a couple of years ago. The city purchased that property for... $245,297 capital bond. So that wasn't for back taxes. We paid $247,000 back. And it says it was used for open space and fire department use, which is great. it is right next to the fire station. But, you know, I have a child, I have two children, one of whom attends Athen Howe Elementary School, and I don't know if you've been down there, but we have a real parking shortage. going on down there at Athen Howe Elementary School. And we got this lot. I know that lot is considerably larger on paper than it actually is because it's like on a cliff.

but there is a substantial amount of potential parking that could be used there. I mean, I see... private contractors parking their cars in there, people who live in the area. And meanwhile, we had kids at Atherton House School, and I've talked to T-Pal about this, I've talked to the principal, Robin Marrera. I've talked to the assistant superintendent of schools. And I mean, we should be able to fit at least 10 cars in that lot. And I don't want to hear like, oh, you know, we can't afford to pave it because I just got an email from Catherine Hoban on May 7th, she's the Director of Purchasing, regarding the recent John Quincy Adams statue unveiling, if you want to call it, where we had a great

you know a great event it was well attended and it was really well done but you know we all sat under a tent under a beautifully paved parking lot that was on private property that we the taxpayers paid $27,000 to pay just to have it a few weeks later ripped up so it could be a big giant hole in the ground. Because Catherine Hoban says that we paid an additional $49,150 and 55% of that was the cost to re-skim coat that in that parking lot.

Happy to take a look at it. I know that there was ADA requirements at the time of the tent placement and the ceremony that probably required us to do something with what was in that parking lot.

I'm just saying, I mean, that was a zero benefit to the taxpayers. I mean, literally less than an eighth of a percent. were paying out money. And it's like we got kids playing in a schoolyard where teachers are driving their cars through the parking lot that is deemed the schoolyard because the administrator and her Her ability, she does go out there every day and puts those cones there to keep the teachers from parking there. But you know, they still park there anyway. And there's no reason why that lot can't be unfenced, signed, and paved if we can pay $27,000 to pave a lot on private land for a couple of days.

It's a different bucket of money than we would normally get paving money from, but we do do a lot of schoolyard paving. that's downtown revitalization money. I don't know the full cost. I'd have to take a look at it. But again, when you do an event of that scale, when you do something like that, there are costs associated. There are costs associated with ADA compliance and making sure the site is accessible. So to have an event like that at that scale there isn't a cost associated with it. And again, I think overall, if we're looking at the number, whatever that number is, based upon what's there now, what's going to be there in a year or two, that costs,

is certainly within reason. All right, very good. So I just want to make a closing remark about the things that have happened yet tonight. What you've heard tonight from the city council and from the administration is we own a lot of property. We have a huge portfolio that we have amassed Over many years, this is a 10-year look back here, and what I see is that certain projects get fast-tracked, and I'm not necessarily talking about the DIF projects. I know that that's a different thing. but I'm telling or I want to send a message to the people of Quincy it might seem like you see things happening, things happening downtown, that's great. But if you look at this information, if the city is a property owner or is looking to buy property in your neighborhood, and you think, oh, this is gonna be turned into something. It's probably not going to happen the further you get from downtown.

Properties seem to languish seven, eight, nine, 10 years. Okay, and not only that, while they have it, they don't do anything with it when they have the ability to do something with it. So I would just hope that this information goes back to the administration and that we can actually make some gains and actually use some of this property, turn that 10, was it 1073 C Street, Mr. Thompson's yard into a parking lot? Not only that, but also the corner of Manitab and C Street, the lower half, not down by the Willows, where the school is, there's also a fire station right across the street. And there's very little parking there for the firefighters as well. A lot of times they're parked up on the side of the street, which is fine. You can park on the street. But I mean, we could provide parking in that lot. And again, it's a dangerous corner. We had a child hit there just a couple of years ago, like two years ago.

And it can get even more dangerous the closer people park to the corner. yet we have a vacant lot where we could literally park 10 cars. That's my message for tonight. I'm just hoping, again, that we can try and find some use for these properties as we sit here and wait to hear the plan that hasn't come already in the last 10 years. Thank you so much. and I just wanna, any other questions? I want to adjourn this meeting of the Oversight Committee at 7.25.

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Good evening. I'd like to call to order the Monday, May 11th, 2026 Finance Committee meeting. I'll begin by reading the open meeting law. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unperceived by those present, and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Madam Clerk, can you call the roll?

Councilor Ash.

Present.

DiBona, Hubley, Jacobs, Mahoney, McKee, Ryan, Walker, Brown. Present. Councilor Yuan. Present. Chairman Rodgers.

Present.

I know Councilor McKee is here also.

She is, yes. So we will begin with our public hearing on the proposed fiscal year 2027 municipal budget. I will ask that we keep our comments to three minutes or less. and also remind people that this hearing is specifically for the budget, so we need to keep our comments relative to the 2027 municipal budget.

So is there anyone that would like to come forward?

There's also a sign-in sheet in the back if you'd like to express yourself. No, if you don't want to speak, you can sign in the back.

Thank you. I wasn't planning on speaking. and Inspired, Joanne Collins, 88 Hillside Ave in Quincy. Just wanted to see, I think that it was Council Yuan that said, It is a little bit difficult when you're in the audience if you don't have that piece of paper in front of you. So I was wondering if we could ask maybe it go online or if there's some way that residents can actually take a look at that paper. Oh yeah, you can ask. So that was just my request is just to see if we could get that online or if somehow we could, the taxpayers could see what these properties are and understand them that the way you do so we can understand what's going on a little bit better. Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Helen Shiner. I live at 23 Copley Street. I am an abutter to the Eastern Nazarene campus. I've lived there for... We're talking about budget, though.

Good evening, Councilors, Madam President. My name's Tom Bowes. I'm the president of the Quincy Firefighter Association, Local 792. It's on my second stint as the president of the local, 25 years being a chair or officer of the local, one capacity or another. For the last 25 years as an Officer of the Local, I've seen a lot. Early 2000s, we had a department that was poorly funded and staffed. times that featured fire companies browned out, leaving whole neighborhoods unprotected, apparatus that was failing, a hydrant system in the city that was often failing at fires, and big deficiencies in training and equipment for our members. Over the past 16 years, We've worked with Maycock and the administration and prior city councils and become one of the best departments for a community our size in the country. We now have a fleet management program for apparatus resulting in newer rigs out there on the streets and the front lines. We've added over 100 firefighter positions in the last 16 years. resulting in bigger crews knocking fires down quickly. We have brought Ladder 4 back down in Houseneck, which we lost during Prop 2 1⁄2 cuts in the 90s. The infrastructure work in the city has resulted in better water flow and capacity in the hydrogen systems which helped with the fires.

We've seen improvements in stations, two stations being fully renovated, hopefully more to come. We have had countless improvements in gear, equipment, training, and technology, resulting in a much better fight department for the city. It should be noted also during this time, millions of dollars were brought in by members of Local 792, securing both state and federal grant money for a lot of improvements as we try to do our part. We're lucky to be part of this community. We take what we do very seriously. As our union banner says, committed to community. We get involved, whether it's Alzheimer's fundraisers, cancer fundraisers, senior citizens cookouts, sponsoring various teams and events throughout the city. or even times when neighborhoods get flooded out like back in O'Rourke years ago and we help people clean out their houses and fight up the grill and cook them lunch. That's what being a Quincy firefighter is all about. We're not always angry firefighters. We pride ourselves as giving back to this community and trying to keep the city and its citizens safe. Our budget consists of almost 98% personnel costs. Welcome.

Is that clock accurate? Is that clock accurate as far as the three minute timer is concerned? I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

Clock hadn't been restarted before he started speaking, so I restarted it.

Okay, Hank Dondero, 65 Man and a Half, Quincy, Mass, 02169. Very quickly, downtown budgets have been proposed by the mayor. and approved by the City Council for quite a few years with a vision in mind. It appears as though this City Council has an ambition and an aim to cut, cut, cut. I have one question. What the hell is your vision for the city? What the hell is your vision for downtown? What do you plan on doing? I've been sitting here listening to a lot of this, I won't go into it, a lot of this for several months, and I don't see anything that is positive being proposed as part of the budget. So again, and I'm going to emphasize this in more places than just here, what is this city council's vision for the city of Quincy and for downtown Quincy?

That's it.

Thank you. Anyone else?

The clock all set. Good evening. My name is Greg Hodnett. I'm a resident and a property owner in the City of Presidents. I am a proud 15-year member of the Quincy Police Department and serve as the president of the Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association. a position I have held for the last seven years. This is actually my first time I ever stood before the City Council. Over the last two decades, the Quincy Police Department has made historic strides and the level of service provided to the city of Quincy. Our community policing model offers passionate, professional police services for all of our citizens. Our school resource offices engage with the students and staff on a daily basis, forging relationships that is uncommon in other cities and towns. Increased staffing levels coupled with an investment in equipment and a wide variety of specialized training allow us to provide the highest quality of public safety service possible. Quincy is a city with unique neighborhoods.

Area patrol officers police the needs of neighbors to which they patrol and get to know the pulse of each neighborhood. Our officers engage with our residents attend neighborhood events and strive to become part of the fabric of the areas they patrol. Community programs such as our Car Seat Safety Program, which is a state-funded grant, Women's Self-Defense Programs, DARE Curriculum for fifth and seventh graders in the classroom, DARE Camp for fifth graders preparing to enter the sixth grade, which is a week-long program, Quincy Police Department Youth Academy for seventh and eighth graders, Cops in the Pox Program, which we've expanded on throughout the city, Coffee with a Cop, Quincy Police Department, Middle School Wrestling Program in the Quincy Police Department, Boating Safety Certification in partnership with the Environmental Police, just to name a few, are unmatched in the region, making Quincy a great place to live, work, and visit.

The QPPoA has worked with Chief Kennedy's leadership team and the Koch administration with the support of our city council forging a path forward as the city expands to provide unmatched public safety services and response times. The members of the Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association are hopeful that our City Council will fully fund the Quincy Police Department's operating budget for fiscal year 2026-2027. We have full confidence that Chief Kennedy will do an excellent job presenting and explaining our budget and answering questions that you may have. Thank you all for your time and have a good evening.

Thank you. Anyone else?

Bill Zamsow, 46 Tilden Circle, Quincy. As for the Mayor's proposed fiscal year 2027 budget, problems with it are myriad. For starters, for over a decade, the Mayor's budgets have not included actual annual spending data. Instead this year, as in recent years, pages have been wasted in the budget book providing 40-some weeks of current year-to-date spending data which can only readily point out over $5 million in over budgeted spending on snow and ice removal and how the fire department is yet again looking to run over a million dollars over budget on payroll related items, net net. it is thus all but impossible to otherwise figure out what's been spent where. In fact, not even the administration can keep track. To wit, the proposed 27th budget notes $478 million appropriated in FY26. Without going into particulars, a better figure for FY26 is $468 million.

In turn, the $492 million in spending proposed for FY26 works out to a 5% spending increase instead of the 2% increase proclaimed by the Mayor last week. Granted, Given such a higher spending increase than had been animated earlier, I updated my pro forma. In brief, unless the Mayor has more than $4 million in reserves to pay down the levy next fall, it would appear that he will have to tap all of the $24 million in untapped property tax levy to cover the $27 Nutt. In turn, such would give rise to over 10% property index in 2027. As for the city's debt services, it only gets uglier no matter how the administration tries to spend it. For example, the Quincy Center DIF debt.

A few years ago, RKG Associates, the city's DIF advisor, went on the records before this body is projecting the DIF would run around $25 million in the red over the coming years before reserves revenues exceeded expenses. Further note that the taxpayers citywide would thus have to be stuck with covering the negative. Even worse, a better read of things would indicate several or more times greater running in the red with more reimbursements without interest, not happening until around the end of the century. In short, so much for the mayor's long ongoing claim that the new tax revenue from the redevelopment within the DIF would fully cover the nut. Finally, the DIF, I mean, sorry, the POB bond. I'm on the record as warning that the bonds were risky. While the problems are too complicated to admit, The Mayor's claim of issuing the bonds, half-billion dollar pension bond would save taxpayers $160 million ain't happening. I could go a little bit further on, but my time's out.

Thank you for your time and consideration, and good luck dealing with problems not of your doing.

Thank you. Anyone else?

Going once.

Hi, my name's Bob Haley, 75 Elmwood Park. Yeah, I just have one question. The fire department's overtime budget has been over by a million and a half dollars the last four years. three of those years they usually clean it up with end of the year transfers they take from other department budgets and clean it up there. Last year they didn't have enough money so they took it out of free cash. I'm wondering why that is that every year it's overspent. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, Jocelyn Sedney, 85 Monroe Road. I reviewed the 2027 budget line by line. I did not address those line items that we cannot do anything about. for example, the debt service, which is one of the highest items in the budget. I have provided those numbers to most of the city council. in order to deal with the lack of strategy for replenishing the reserves and failure to address the debt and in recognition of this mayor's clear intent to continue borrowing by leaps and bounds, we must make some difficult decisions. The level funded 2027 budget should be along the same lines as the 2026 budget. There are some numbers we cannot change, like the debt service, health insurance payments, et cetera. and raises negotiated with collective bargaining units. But other than those, the numbers should remain the same with some reductions provided by departments. That means no raises across the board except those referenced above. There are, in some of those line items, incredibly significant raises.

For this year, the city must tighten its belt. I did notice that we have no figures related to Quincy College. In the management letters accompanying the budget, Quincy College is identified as an enterprise fund like the water and sewer enterprise funds which submit budgets. Every employee of Quincy College is a Quincy employee with all related benefits. The college is a financial burden on the city. We should have a budget from the city on the funds expended for Quincy College with detailed information as it is, no one has any idea what that burden is. I would also like to see a breakdown of the revenue from Furnace Brook Golf Course. The Recreation Department lists employees related to the golf management. We also built a completely new building, clubhouse, entered into a lease with the food supplier. It would be interesting to know whether the revenue has and will continue to draw down the debt and expenses for that project.

I would like to know as to the Human Resources Department what positions get posted and the process for the same. If the Mayor's Office calls and says they have someone who needs a job and asks them to accommodate that person, What does the department do? Do they post a job, create a job, and how do they fund that position as it is not in the budget? In terms of school budget, I would like a message to be sent that any increase is meant to fund student education and activities, not pay raises for administrators who were well taken care of last year. As to the Elections Department, I would like to know what line items are directed to advertising and being sure that those people in wards and precincts that do not tend to vote in as high numbers as others do get the word that an election is imminent. The information technology was identified in at least one management letter from the last two years, if not both, for issues related to services provided.

There have been two breaches of protocol to date. One was catastrophic and the other indicative of sloppiness. How are these issues to be dealt with and certainly not by hefty raises for the senior management? Thank you.

Is there anyone else? and in the event that I messed up the clock, I would like to offer Mr. Bose an additional two minutes if you'd like to take it.

Pardon me? Who's calling? I just want to close with our budget. Our budget consists of almost 98% personnel costs. Any cuts to this year's budget would likely result in manpower cuts. which could result in increased response times for smaller crews throughout the city, resulting in increased property damage, increased injuries, maybe even fight fatalities. Cuts would jeopardize the safety of the citizens of Quincy as well as my members, something no one wants to see. We respectfully ask that you support our budget as submitted by Mayor Koch and provide the citizens the first class fire safety they are accustomed to here in Quincy. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. My apologies. Okay, if there is no further public comment, we will adjourn until 8 p.m. Thank you.

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It is working.

Good evening. I'd like to call to order the 8 o'clock Finance Committee meeting with our departmental budget hearings, starting with Mr. Della Barbara. We've already read the open meeting log.

Good evening, Councilors. I'm going to begin the evening with a brief overview of the 2026 revenue Budget Collections and where we stand at this point and just kind of give you a slight overview of what we anticipate for 2027. I just want to say at this moment in time, we've collected 92.3% of the revenue that we estimated to collect has been collected, and that's as of May 7th, which is at a point of 85% through the fiscal year. The levy remains the city's most significant revenue source, which it accounts for approximately 74% of the budget. Levy Collections is ahead of schedule with 96.2% of the levy collected at this time.

Tax title is a strong point. We've collected approximately $761,000 this year from tax title. Another highlight in the collection is higher than expected interest rate income due to the higher interest rate environment. seen an increase there of about $700,000. Motor vehicle excise tax is performing stable. This just shows those numbers in a different light between the budgeted amounts and what's actually been collected to date. So again, 92.3% of tax revenue has been collected through 80% of the year levy collection.

has been collected at 96.2%, and I can break that down between personal property has been collected at 98.6%, and real estate has come in at 96.1%. State aid has been collected at 74.9%, with one last quarter of revenue to come in from the state, that number should be 100%, we'll get there. Local receipts are at 78.9%, kind of lagging the 85% point in the year that we're at. but just to point out, we do another quarter of our meals tax should be coming in of about $700,000 as well. We should get those numbers right back up. Briefly looking ahead to 2027, looking at the cherry sheets and the state aid, it looks like we're going to have a

$70.9 million in increase in state aid, which is an increase of 2.52%. And that's based on state receipts of $76.9 million. and Assessments and Charges, which last $6 million there. Federal funding changes is a big concern to the Commonwealth and what the current administration, may receive from the federal government. So that's something I know the Commonwealth is watching and it's something that we should consider too. This graph here is just showing that local receipts are basically based on trends. And receipts are primarily driven by consumption and inflation.

in periods of high inflation, we're gonna see less consumption demand. And where I'm going next with this is, you know, inflation is still at 3.2%, which is above the Federal Reserve's 2% target. Interest rates could be coming along the line in the future if that, with a new Federal Reserve Chairman coming on board. That could stimulate our local economy even more. We can see local receipts jump. but one of my biggest concern is energy prices. Energy prices in the United States have jumped 12.5% year on year as of March 26 and that's obviously because of geopolitical turmoil. So just in summary, our FY2026 revenues are exactly on pace for this point in the fiscal year.

State Aid will likely increase by $2.3 million in FY2027. Local receipts remain consistent and in proportion to its previous year's pattern. with the caveat that local receipts may be pressured next year by increased energy and food costs in fiscal 2027. Overall, the revenue collections and projections remain stable. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Della Barbara. If you don't mind, we'll just see if anyone has any questions. This is not an agenda item that we will take a vote on. This is informational to sort of set the stage for the budget discussions, but if anyone has any questions for Mr. Della Barber or comments. Mr. DiBona, Councilor DiBona.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to start off by just saying thank you, Paul, for your presentation here tonight. I know prior to you was Eric Mason, and prior to you was Mark Kavanaugh. I came onto the City Council in 2015. My very first budget cycle was 2016, and it was a totally different City Council then. and then we had other issues going on basically on revenues. I'm gonna get to the revenue point in a minute. But when it first came on to the city council and our budget cycle, that particular year, Kirsten Hughes was the council president Ian Cain was the finance chair, which was a rookie chair for the finance, sat next to Joe Finn, and it was a totally different city council. It was a lot of different other issues going on in the city at that time. It was pre-COVID. a lot of different concerns. Every year there's going to be anywhere concerns with the city. Revenues.

Does anything globally that's happening, presidency, federal aid, how are we doing with that? Has there been any cuts of how we can receive funding or have we been cut off anywhere?

were directly connected to that by the way the federal government is giving aid out to the states. And right now, it's very contentious between the state of Massachusetts and the President of the United States because they're very different political viewpoints. And that's something that the state is remaining cautious about and watching, and we have to watch it as well. I wouldn't say plan ahead on giant, increases in state aid that rely on federal aid to fund some of those programs or disbursements.

have we had to dip into any grants that have been, I know we're gonna get into grants, but it all relates back to our revenue sources. Have we had anything taken away from us grant-wise where we've had to like, the city has had to absorb and vice versa. I know these are general statements that come out, but I just wanna get a consensus of where we're at here in 2026 going into the new fiscal year.

I would think if you talk to Public Safety that they would see a decrease in the UASI funding, which is grants coming down from the federal level, dispersed to local emergency management in Boston, which then disperses that out throughout the communities. I know in the past I've seen those grants for LifeVest, for 911 funding, et cetera. and maybe just because my capacity has changed from Director of Accounts to Director of Municipal Finance, I'm not seeing those grants come through on a regular basis, I'm sure if you talk to either chief, they've seen probably a decrease in that funding.

Going a little further into House or Representative, Senate, midterms, President's going to, unless something happens to him, is going to be in office. We're going to be in our fiscal new year of 27. What could have any major impact in the middle of the year if anything happens? We know that gas prices have well elevated up to $4, and I've already seen an increase in some of the milks and the eggs and the bread. How does that reflect us here in Quincy?

Well, I think it's the same way it affects everybody throughout the United States. Geopolitical matters that come up that are unpredictable such as the closing of the Strait of Hormuz and driving up oil prices to the point where they are right now, are putting strains on, you know, people's pocketbooks. I'm a dad. I have four kids. And my grocery bills are going through the roof. Everybody's feeling that pinch. And we may see that here in the effects of local consumption. maybe somebody that goes out to dinner twice in a weekend stays home one night that doesn't go out at all. So we would see decreases in our mail stacks or people put off buying a brand new car. We could see an impact to our motor vehicle excise tax. There's just different ways that the policies at the federal government or geopolitical issues are affecting us at a micro level.

Right down to the city of Quincy and the decisions we make.

My main goal here is in Quincy, obviously, but we have to look at the other 351 communities, 350 communities around us. Are they impacted very similarly to us based on what you're saying?

Absolutely, everybody's competing for the same dollar.

I just wanted to get a general consensus here. We've got more deliberations on different subjects, but it's going through my mind constantly. We're trying to fulfill a budget. A lot of it is fixed. We're working with revenues and we need it. I thought we've done a great job on growth and all these other avenues and I would hope that we do the best we can with collections. and we'll get to that later.

I would be cautiously optimistic that local receipts would remain flat or see a slight growth in the future and that's with hopes that a lot of those these geopolitical strains get solved and, you know, ease up so that the consumer can see a break themselves.

Thank you, Mr. Zalabro, and I'll have more questions later. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Yan.

Thanks, Chairwoman. So I have a question. So the first page 92.3% of revenue collected Earth May 7th, 2026. Does that include revenue from the downtown district?

Yes, it would include revenue collected from the downtown district because that's being collected in the form of taxation in the levy and coming into the general fund.

and did you have a breakdown of the downtown revenue, downtown district revenue and other revenues? Do you have a number?

Well, I have the gentleman here tonight from IKG who put the model together for the revenue calculations that can tell you how that revenue is calculated. And I believe I did send out... those numbers to Councilor Mahoney.

the revenue number from DIF in 2026?

Yes, I didn't bring it with me this evening.

Did you have that? I don't have it with me. Okay.

I just want our beer in hand. Yeah, so they have specific numbers. The estimated deferred revenue for 2026 in the levy is $12,952,623. $12,952,623.

And the total revenue connected, how much for that? So this is from the revenue, right?

Correct.

And the general fund, how much is the revenue?

that $12 million would be in the $303,715,545 collected in 2026 real estate tax to date.

Could you repeat that number?

Yes. $303,715,545.27.

Can I just point of clarification? Point of clarification. So you're saying that the total amount of revenues received for taxes was 303 billion, is that what you're saying? And of that, 12,952,000 was DIF?

of the $303 million, the 12 million et cetera was DIF income.

And it all comes in through the general fund?

That's correct.

So it's the total value of our revenues for that year is the 303, and 12 million of it is the DIF.

At this point in time.

And that's just for this year, the three quarters of this year.

Correct.

Okay. And you certify, do you certify the DIF monies?

No, we do not.

No, and the assessor doesn't certify the yearly DIF monies?

I believe the assessor certifies the assessments on the parcels within the district.

But they're not separated. So it's just the certification for the revenues that come in.

know there's a certification on the parcels. We do not certify the revenues. It's not a requirement that we need to do.

So you certify the parcels, but is there a base parcel rate for the DIF?

That I'm not aware of.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Thank you very much. I have questions for you too. So that's you're not aware of. That's correct. Okay. Do we have 2025 numbers? I don't need to hijack it.

I do not.

Okay. So... could you explain to me, because you're the Chief Financial Officer, I'm just gonna ask you to explain, because we have a lot of new Councilors up here, and you're the Chief Financial Officer, I don't want anybody else coming up, explain to me how the DIF works.

Well, first off, I'm the Director of Municipal Finance. I'm not the Chief Financial Officer, and there's a big difference in title.

Okay, so as the Director, you're the head honcho of Finance right now. Is that good? So could you explain how DIF works? Because whether you're the Chief Financial Officer or you're the Director, you're the one who's presenting the whole city budget to us tonight, correct?

the entire city budget?

Well, the budget that's coming in, and we just talked about the revenues, we're talking about, I'm assuming that everybody put their budgets in, and it has to go through your office to be able to get the budget out. Who created the budget for this year?

and the department heads create their own budget. It comes up through municipal finance. The mayor reviews it and it gets presented to the councilors.

Okay, so you don't actually meet with any of the department heads?

of course we meet with the department heads, we answer questions.

Okay, so you meet with the department heads and the mayor's part of that. What I'm saying is this presentation typically typically, whether it's the head accountant, chief financial officer, director, whatever you want to say, is kind of the master plan behind the whole budget. each department brings things forward. So now I'm asking you for the DIF. Could you explain to me how DIF works? Because we have many new counselors up here that may not understand how it works. I just want to see if you could explain it to us.

Sure, we have a DIF district. The DIF district involves parcels related, and I believe a 25 square foot vicinity, or no, I'm sorry. That's good.

I just mean, it doesn't have to be exact.

Okay, the Diff Postles are located in the downtown district. These postles are... once they're identified, there is projects, the city can use the DIF legislation to go out and ban and borrow money to get some projects off the ground. the projects within the stiff districts can be banned for a 10-year period where we can just keep rolling these band notes over and over. But at the end of the 10 years, we must go to a long-term bonding on those projects. However, if there's an interest, if there's an opportunity with lower interest rates in any time in the future, we don't have to roll those bands. We can lock in the long-term cost at that point. That would depend on advice from our financial advisors.

the way I understand it is when this DIF legislation came about is the revenue from the downtown district would pay for the debt service on these bonds to get the district going. It was initially set up as, I believe, a district revenue area. but because we did not go ahead and issue revenue bonds, we issued general obligation bonds, we did not have to certify the actual income coming in. and that money can go into the general fund and therefore pay the debt service on the bonds. It comes down to, from what I understand from talking to our bond counsel, it is the type of bonds that we're issuing in the downtown long term which dictates whether or not we have to certify those revenues year to year.

So, okay. So when you get the money into the general fund, you're commingling the DIF funds into the general fund and there's no separation of incremental growth.

No, there isn't. There was up until, I believe, 2022. And at some point, there may have been a decision to go away from the DIF Sanctum Fund. I think that just... determination may have been because we did not have to certify that money, that revenue, but I don't know, I wasn't there.

So through you to our auditor, Susan, could you tell me when the sinking fund went away? And maybe through you to Jen. I don't know. Was there a vote on them?

the sinking fund? I'm not sure if there was a, I believe back in the time, I know there was a presentation on the sinking fund. I will look and see if I can find that date. And then I believe maybe the last, normally in December of every year, a council order would come before the city council to vote to move the money from the district, from the sinking fund, and then to reimburse what has been paid out of your short-term borrowing line. I don't know if that was in 22 or 23, that was the last time.

When we bring this money in and it's in the general fund and we're recognizing it and we're putting it in the two and a half levy, is it all being done at the same time, DIF and everything else?

Correct.

So you're not actually recognizing the incremental growth anywhere? So this is where my concern comes in. I'm not sure if we have a DIF anymore, because a DIF, this is my understanding of a DIF, and this is, I'm not trying to debate you, I'm just trying to understand, and I might need RKG to come up. , based on the materials that you sent out to everybody, and based on the debt presentation that we had a couple of weeks ago, the DIF obligation seems to be approaching $794 million. And do you know when it extends to, the DIF obligations?

I'm sorry, what's your question?

Do you know how far the DIF obligations extend to? I was asking for forecasting and you didn't have any forecast. I'm just asking, do you know when the DIF, all of the 794, do you know how far it goes up?

would depend on when some of these bands get bonded long term. I mean, if interest rates are favorable, we're gonna do most of it as soon as possible.

Do you think it's like 2040, maybe?

that, I don't know.

Do you know when the revenues max out? Where we have it right now. So you gave us all this information, big stacks of papers, you sent me a lot of things. I asked for things very specifically and I went ahead and did my own. calculations on this, and it's $794 million as of today, and extends, the diff extends through 2067. I'll be 102, and we don't have the downtown done yet. We're going to have additional borrowing that's going to be happening on future DIF-related projects because it's not ending anytime soon. What I'm trying to understand is the long-term trajectory of our projects and our obligations, because we're going to be at a billion dollars for DIF pretty soon. because you're going to come back. It's stated in the materials that I got. And then RKG, is it RKG? Said that in their... What I was able to see was that it looks like it's going to level off around 2044, I think. 2044.

So in 2044, there'll be no more money to pay off the diff. and the DIF will go out to 2067. I mean, this is where we're at today, but we have a lot more to do and we're commingling the money and now this is how the DIF really works from my understanding. and I will share with everybody here. So when we describe that little square, that's the area, that's downtown area that we're gonna do. And we assess the values of those properties and we call it the base. Thank you, you're shaking your head, yes. It's the base. and we collect those taxes on the base every year and that goes into the general fund. And then when we, in the 10 year bonds, when we get the bans out, and it might take 10 years, it's for the infrastructure, and then in the magic year 10 years, you should have a development done and the bond might roll over and the project is now producing money and the money that comes in should go into a sinking fund, but it was going into a sinking fund until 2022. and now it's going into the general fund.

And when we get that money in, that's certified, should be certified by the assessors, because Mansfield does it this way, Somerville does it this way, and every other community that has a DIF does it this way, but we do it, we commingle and it's a little bit different. So, I'm not knocking them, I'm just trying to understand it. When the money comes in and you have the base, but then we had the development and the growth, and the money comes in, we're supposed to separate the base, because they've already paid the taxes, and only count the incremental growth. and that incremental growth that you get wouldn't go into the general fund. It would go into the sinking fund to pay off the bonds that we have.

Follow me? I'm following you, but on Bon Counsel who we consult with Rick Manley.

Maybe we can get on a phone call, me and you and Bon.

I would love to, instead of going back and forth right here.

Maybe, you know, now I'd like you to come up because I believe me and him, he's agreeing with me. So I think maybe he might be able to help me out.

Sure, so good evening, Council. I'm Eric Wissages, Associate Principal with RKG Associates. And just to sort of build off of your point around, at a high level, how the DIF works effectively. back in 06, 07, when the DIF began, that was your certified base value. And so at that certified base value for all of the parcels in the district, that's your starting point. As you start to add new growth in that district, the delta from that new growth and that original base value is what you can consider as increment or as DIF revenues. so the I guess some of the key things to consider with that DIF revenue is it like all properties in Quincy under the rules of Prop 2 1⁄2. As tax rates change, that revenue can change relative to the changes in tax rate.

and the other key lever there is that as a project is being developed, so say a construction project is being built over three years and each year that it's assessed, it would be one-third the value, two-thirds the value, and then the full completed value. Over those years of construction, the assessed values can change and this is contingent on things like Market activity, as we've seen, especially with multifamily and condos, assessments for that and valuations for that are really high. So as you see things come online, those assessed values drive the value of that new growth. and so effectively you can start to see that growth, but once the project is completed, that completed value, that delta from that base value is then what you can carry through for the duration of the DIF as DIF revenue. But that base value, the taxes off that base value, that's still going to the general fund. and Weill, things like appreciation of other properties.

So if you think about a project in one place, there could be properties all around that that are continuing to see appreciation but not new development. That can't count as DIF revenue. but that does count as additional revenue into the general fund. So it's creating value in that way, even though that's not specifically DIF. and I believe you all have a sort of a one pager that shows a stylized example of this. And so effectively, as you see through the revenue projections, you're seeing as projects come online, those that are under construction, those that are currently permitted, and then those that are undergoing conversations with the city, that's what's driving that value as you go through the duration of the forecast in the DIF. and those obviously can change. Interest rates go lower, you might see things push forward. Interest rates go higher, you could see things pushed out. So there are things that can affect the delivery and also the valuation of those properties but that's ultimately what's driving and the revenue and so I'll stop there because I know I just said a lot of things.

So I thank you very much for that explanation but my concern is the commingling of our, so what I'm hearing from Director De La Barber is that we're putting everything into one thing which is the general fund. And then we're assessing that value. And that's what we're looking at when we create our excess levy. to the two and a half, which were not backing out the incremental growth, which would then deteriorate the diff, because there'd be no diff in the chapter 40Q, is it 40Q? Been doing a little bit of reading, because I've been asking for a lot of stuff, so. So my concern is, and I've been asking this for the last several weeks, and I was a little frustrated when we had everybody, and I know you weren't there that night, so I'm glad you're here tonight, because I did get your report, and I did do my forecasting with it, 2044, no more revenues, 2062 is how long it goes out. So 2044 until 2062. If we were to stop doing everything right now in 2044,

the value stops, but it goes out to 2067. And what I'm trying to explain is that this has always been something that we said is gonna pay for itself. But as of today, when I'm looking at this, it is not paying for itself. Now, one might say, well, we have more things to do. But as of today, what we have done so far, complete $794 million, we are not one decade. but multiple, I'll be 102, I'll be long gone. But my point of this is this is multiple generations and when we started this, back a long time ago. It's a hard concept. It's not an easy concept to digest. And trust me, every day I'm like, I'm gonna have a diff aneurysm, because it's like, I can't see. And that's why I'm asking all these questions. And again,

I'm trying to understand if we're commingling it and we're not applying, an assessed value for the DIF, how we can possibly, we're either overvaluing our levy, which making it seem more, and we're not doing a diff. 40Q, no, there's no 40. So we're using 40Q just for the bands and all the other things, but we're actually not accounting for it correctly. and that's a key thing because we were doing that up until 2022. But somewhere between 2022 and now we stopped doing that and nobody can tell me why. and I've been asking for the certified records for DIF for a couple weeks now. I haven't got them, I got a chart that you sent me, and you say you don't have to certify things, but you have to do something, even the treasurer, when you get up here, I'll be asking you to. Your direction has to be, when you get money from the DIF,

are you putting it into one account or are you putting it into two? Like base versus new growth. and it's not even new growth. I have the wrong word here but it's basically, I'm forgetting what it's called but it's actually the difference there, your delta. I'll use your word, the delta. So if you're putting it all in one and we're calling it General Fund, then technically, thank you very much, everybody in Quincy. From Ward 1 to Ward 6, you are now paying. All your taxes are paying for the diff. the one thing that everybody's been promised for decades. And that's crushing me right now because this is not the story I want to tell. and it's very upsetting to me as a taxpayer. I've only been at the council for two years. And in two years when I came back, the DIF is now not a DIF, In your opinion, if we're not doing that, RKG, you deal with diffs a lot, right?

Yeah.

If I'm going through what the 40Q's telling us to do and I'm telling you this is how they're doing it, we have a big problem on our hands because our accounting is off.

Yeah, so what I can speak to is that based on the revenues that you see from the assessment in fiscal year 2026 and the projections out, over this period from 2026 to 2044, the DIF is covering its current debt service. Running out past that, obviously it would be contingent on future projects things that are not known.

I took all of Hilltop's bonds that they gave us. They gave us a big stack of stuff. I took it all. and I ran through a model and the model says it goes out to 2060. I was asking for forecasting. I mean, if I can't get it, I'm gonna have to do it myself. And I'm probably maybe, I'm not gonna say I'm completely accurate. I don't do it every day for a living. But this is what we were asking for two weeks ago. didn't get any of that. Yours goes out to 2044 and I run that 794 out, it goes out to 2067. So I'm not here to debate you about this, I'm just seriously trying to understand more importantly, how we, the city of Quincy, went from having a sinking fund to putting it in, commingling the money and absolutely have no idea why the assessed value is important to the DIF. And it's hugely important because how are you separating the base? And the base will change every year, just like you said. So far taxes are $11 when you started. all that area gets charged at $11 and it goes up to $12. It's just taxed at $12.

Every year we set the tax rate. the treasurer has to send out the bills. The assessor has to tell her how much to send it out for and then we get our money back. The development down in the DIF sends the money in, but it's not just the check. My check comes in from my money, for my taxes, and it goes into the general fund. My house is part of the general fund. Everybody in this room that has a house in Quincy goes into the general fund, but the DIF, goes into the, the base goes into the general fund and the remainder has to be separated out because of a difference. If you're not separating it out and you're not accounting for it, you're either double counting in the levy and then also saying it's diff. Now we have what I call an accounting nightmare because I don't know where we go from here.

Yes, and so I guess in response to that, what I would say is under the, if you were to review the Mass Development Guidelines, and as Councilor Mahoney is mentioning, typically speaking, those DIF revenues are tracked as a separate line item. That being said, I was not here or I'm privy to how the city specifically arranged how those are being tracked through its current structure. So I would defer to my colleagues on that question.

One of the things I will say is 40Q, It's kind of like the honor system. There's no real, like the DOR, although I'll be talking to the DOR, they have you upload your assessed values and the accountant uploads the budget and it all kind of commingles there. When you're using the tool, tool in our tool chest, when you're using the tool, you're supposed to separate it out. Now, I'll use the example of Somerville, and I looked at both of theirs. Somerville in... Assembly Square. They started and they did their diff. And I think they're going to be done paying for Assembly Square. which has PUMA, which has, I forget the name of it, Mass General Beth Israel is over there. It has a bunch of businesses. basically a walking mall, it has living spaces, it has parking garages, it has everything, and then they even got their own line, their own green line. We, in downtown Quincy,

don't have any of that, and that's why we should, because it's a different place, and we have a bombed-out, Quincy-centered tea station that seems like it's never gonna come online. but they've been doing it longer than us and we're basically said all the time that this for a state, like everybody in the state thinks we're like the leader of this. I have to tell you that if everybody in the state knew that we weren't accounting for our money correctly, the way I'm hearing how we're accounting for it, they would be pretty sure that this wouldn't be the state opt-in for 40Q. And second to that, what changed in 2022, sinking fund, to what we're doing now, I have no comfort in knowing that I really do feel bad for everybody at home who's paying their taxes, who thinks it's just because their assessments have gone up. Your assessments have gone up. but you're also paying for $794 million in diff that we were never supposed to have to pay for.

So those gifts that we're giving out to developers are starting to hurt even more. And I'm gonna stop there. because it's very frustrating and it's not your fault and it's not your fault, Mr. Della Barbara. By no means do I believe that this was created because you took this job. I'm just saying that the information that you gave me and I looked at, this is where I'm getting. and I'm looking at the assessor next because I'm gonna have questions for you too. But it's very daunting what I'm hearing tonight and I'm not feeling very positive. And I don't know how the rest of my colleagues feel, but I do feel as though we have a big problem right now. Thank you. Any other councillors with comments?

Please tell me that's not word. Councillor McKee. Aye. This isn't about the DIF per se, but just about revenue. Yeah, this is relative to revenue. This might be just a conversation that we can kind of come back to, but again, I've been looking at the graphs of of DLS Data for the top 50 biggest cities and towns in Massachusetts. I'll just show this is just population so Quincy's number eight here so just to kind of set the stage you would expect maybe the other graphs Quincy would be around So here is transfers.

Quincy's at the very, very top in terms of transfers when it comes to the revenue from the general fund as a percentage of total revenue. and so I'm just throwing this out there it seems like maybe some I'm just telling this to everybody here so we can kind of get a and then this would be something that we can maybe think about because the other revenue sources would be what we charge for different things in the city. and so service charges, Quincy's number 46. So, I have questions, I guess.

It might be that we have to do an ordinance to kind of look over the fees and things that we're charging in the city. but it seems like we could be charging higher fees Fines and Forfeitures were... I'm blind. This is number 22. I guess that might be... . . . . . were number 33, so again, pretty far down that list. So anyway, that's just something I think that we should kind of, I want to put out there for discussions, and maybe we could think about raising and those fees and licenses and permits.

Actually, Councilor, your time is perfect. Treasurer Smith is kind of working on a project right now with the different department heads, looking at the fees, realizing that we are More or less down the bottom than all the other cities and towns around us. So that's it. It's going on.

Great.

That's great.

and I guess I just had maybe a simple question. When you, in this slide about, fiscal year 2026 review, it says higher interest income revenue, and you said that's about 700,000. What does that mean?

Interest on cash reserves.

but wait, it's this slide. But, oh, our cash reserves, are you talking about different cash reserves because, do we have $55,000 in cash?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

Oh, you mean the nine point,

No, the treasurer could probably speak to the exact number. But when we do a bond offering and for capital projects, et cetera, we might borrow $27 million for an extended period of of time for, we call it like burn rate, burn time on a project, where a project manager may say, we need $27 million over the next three months. We'll go out and borrow $27 million. but the money doesn't get spent on that day, so the money sits in an interest-bearing account and earns interest, so with interest rates being as high as they are, interest revenue has exceeded our estimate at this point in time.

Okay, I see, thank you.

That's it for now. Councilor Jacobs.

I ask, good evening, Ms. Delibaba. Thank you for your presentation tonight. At the top here on the first, on the title page, but the first page said that 92.3% of the revenue has been collected as of the 7th of May. Is that like on target? Is that what it would have been like this time last year or the year before? Does that seem like normal to you?

It does.

It does. Okay. And when you say like motor vehicle excess tax is performing well, you know, I mean, do you have any data to back that up? Do you notice that we're going to collect less money than we did last year, maybe due to, as you stated, geopolitical issues? you know, controversy going on because people can't afford to buy new cars. I mean, are we expecting to get the same amount of money? Because I know I drive a 16 year old car and I've been paying $73.50 for basically since the day I bought the car. My wife's $72 and I don't understand why because our cars are basically the same, but that's all right.

Well, I think you see the ripple effects of what's going on right now with interest rates. Energy costs, food costs, and everything being where they are, that may delay decisions that may happen next year. So I would be cautious in 2027. I would expect that 2026 we'd probably be able to to hit that estimate that we have, that revenue estimate.

And possibly go down maybe the next year or something. I'm just asking. Possibly. I know I'm not thinking about buying a new car, especially with gas prices at $4.50 a gallon. Correct. My brother's driving, I call it a power wheel, and I thought he was silly, but now I'm like, well, maybe he was pretty smart to buy that power wheel.

Nope, maybe.

Going back to the diff, you know, I appreciate your explanation of the DIF. And what was your name? Eric's explanation of the DIF. I am new to this. I don't really understand that. If I do have a much better understanding of it now, I do have some concerns about what I heard Councilor Mahoney say about the mixing of the general fund. I will say I Googled it the other day, and that was pretty much the definition I got, that there's a base, and then anything on top of it, you collect the tax revenue. and then anything that's collected from the base goes into the general and then anything on top of that goes into the diff. If we're not, again, if we're not recording them as separate? I mean, I guess we haven't been since 2022. Is there any way, although it seems to allude that Councilor Mahoney is saying it would be an accountant's nightmare, to go back and do that? And if we did that,

if it turns out that the general taxpayer is paying for portions of the diff, I mean, is that gonna, if we go back and start doing it the way 40Q says we're supposed to do it, what's that gonna do to the downtown? Like, are they gonna bring in, is it gonna be successful? Because we don't have any models that show what it looks like now or what it used to look like versus what it should look like. We don't have any of that. I believe that's what RKG just did.

If I might answer that question. In terms of the prior year since 2022, we can look back at the assessment roles from prior fiscal years. And I believe we did that work and sent that over to Rick. So we have that from 06 to 2026. and so based on those numbers we can look at what the death service was on the DIF and then what those revenues are generated by the DIF.

Okay, so we can go back to doing it the way it's supposed to, 240Q, since we're now just putting it all in the general fund. When are we gonna go back and do it the right way?

I can't speak to that. I can speak to the revenue, just how the revenues are computed that I would leave to the lawyers and the folks.

So do you think we should go back and do it the right way?

Mass development guidelines and the guidelines from the state suggest that tracking that separately is best practice.

And if you were in this job, you would suggest that that's what the taxpayer deserves?

It's probably a good rule of thumb to follow best practices, yes.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Councilor Ryan. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Paul, for coming here tonight. Can we go to state aid for a moment, please?

Sure.

So in the state aid, it says states that the net state aid for the fiscal year 2027 is 70.9 million. Is that a definitive?

What was that number again, Councilor?

70.9 million.

Yeah, that's the net number.

Okay, so is that a definitive? has that been certified yet as far as what you get?

No, it's pretty far along in the process. Okay. I believe the Senate budget process, there's only one more approval. Okay. it would be more accurate to say that's a likely number than an actual number, but it should be close.

Okay, thank you. The state receipts, what does that state receipts consist of? that's just cash that comes in?

Right, well, that's the total amount of state aid. There's a lot of aid in there. I believe there's school funding, there's different funding in there that makes up that $70 million.

Okay, and what is the assessments and charges?

those are assessments and charges that the state charges the city of Quincy, so they deduct that from the aid that they're giving us. It's kind of silly, but that's the way they balance it.

Can you give an example of the charges?

It's on the cherry sheet. I don't have the cherry sheet in front of me. I would be glad to send that to you tomorrow morning.

I would greatly appreciate that.

Okay.

Okay, so that's all I've had for this. Thank you very much.

Would the auditor like to add anything to the cherry sheet? What was the question on the?

Do you want to know what the charges are for the cherry sheet? County tax. There's also... aligned for mosquito control projects, Air Pollution District Metropolitan Area Planning Council, RMV non-renewal surcharge, There's a charge that we pay for the MBTA. There's also one for special education. School Choice sending tuition, Charter School sending tuition. And that makes up the charges that the city has to pay the state. All right, thank you. You all.

Anyone else? I'll take privilege then and just try to wrap it up. Please do.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Getting back to motor vehicle excise tack performing well, I know previous councils, we talked a lot about our protocols, our oversight, our tracking devices, for making sure that folks that move into the city are actually getting on the books and starting to pay us. Do we have a lot of those protocols in place today? And how is that going? It looks like it's up in revenue.

I believe the new treasurer has certain protocols put in place, and she's a very aggressive collector. She takes a lot of pride in it. I would address that question to Treasurer Smith as for what she's doing. She's doing an outstanding job.

We've put a lot over the years, former city councilors, Working with Molly, we've done a really good job with tracking that. There was a major concern in previous councils that we weren't getting that revenue, and it looks to be performing well. So I just wanted to point that out. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? No. Okay. So this is not an agenda item that we need to vote on. This is just informational. I would like to just say that I think several of us, although we're trying to understand the DIF. There are a couple of concerning things we keep hearing. Number one is that we're commingling funds. That's never a good practice in any financial situation. It's always better to be able to hold money aside, be able to evaluate it. So I think this body is gonna be looking for more regular updates on the DIF. and the projects that we have in the pipeline, the projects that are complete. Do we have projects that are complete that we can demonstrate that they're paying for themselves? I don't know. That's I think what we've been trying to understand. And then so that when we bring new projects on, when we continue to roll this model out, that we are certain that it's gonna pay for itself. That's what we're looking for. We're looking to see that it is paying for itself for those older projects.

I mean, we're two decades in on this, right? maybe from initial conception, but it's a big part of the debt that we're carrying. Correct. take the pension obligation bond out. We'll all agree that was a great move. The DIF is the next one. We owe it to the taxpayers. The property tax owners are the ones that carry the burden. Even if we up our fees and find other ways to generate and collect revenue, the property taxes are gonna continue to be the lion's share of our revenue stream. Of course. All righty.

You got through that first one, Paul.

Okay, the next item on the agenda would be the Municipal Finance Budget Review. And if somebody could help me. figure out which page that would start on, I think. Thank you. For all of you following along at home, page 25. Okay, Mr. de la Barber, I don't know if there's any commentary you wanna give before we open it up to questions, or if you wanna jump right into the questions.

That depends on what the council wants to do. I can give a brief overview. of Municipal Finance, if you want, or otherwise, for time's sake, if you want to jump right in, jump right in.

I guess I would say not a general overview of municipal finance, but if there's any specific line item that you want to maybe proactively explain,

Well, I'll just say, oh, explain from the budget or from the department?

Well, yeah, the budget.

Okay, so I won't give a department overview. I'll just jump into the budget. No, we don't need a department overview. Okay, great. Thank you. No, questions are fine.

Questions? Councilor Ryan? Yes, Paul, with regards to your 2027 budget, I'm taking a look at line item 510133.

Yes.

All right, business manager. I notice for 25 it's $108,000, for 26 it's $122,000, and then it jumps up to $148,000 for 27. Can you explain that big jump?

Yes, this position has received, I believe, two salary upgrades over the last two years and also receives a position bonus of $10,000 from the air. And there's two other positions within this budget that receive an additional $10,000. And that's because we had a head clerk retired two years ago. I believe the salary was $64,000. And when she retired, this position and two other positions assumed the responsibilities they now earn an extra 10,000. We were able to cut $34,000 out of the budget at that time.

Okay, so how many positions in this category?

There's one.

Just one.

510133. Yep, that's it, just one.

Okay, okay. Okay, so that's all I had on that line item. I noticed that premium pay didn't have anything for 25 and 26. I know it's a small amount for 27, but can you explain the increase?

I believe that's just a contractual line that we're obligated to have.

All right, so audit of Muni accounting that went up about 125,000. Is that for additional audits?

No, so what that is, so what I did, if you look at the bottom line in my budget, ACQ equipment, That had been budgeted the last couple of years at $400,000. And I wasn't spending that money. I didn't have a need to spend that money. But I do have a need in the audit of Muni Accounting. Just the FY26 audit from CBIS, the engagement scope was $195,000 alone. I anticipate the FY26 audits that come in probably around 225,000. It's not gonna go down, it'll probably go up. So I wanted to take those and cut some monies from the bottom line from ACQ equipment, increase that,

and I also use consultant auditor services from Clifton Lawson Allen and Jim Powers. He's a former independent auditor for the city of Quincy.

Okay, so you just moved some money around from the equipment up to the audit, right?

I did, and I ended up cutting the bottom line by $88,000.

Okay, all right. Okay, thank you. That's all I had.

Thank you. Councilor Yuan? Chairwoman. So I have a question for Mr. Pao. So on item 510190, city leave. Byback, 2026, budget $600,000, and then year-to-date, it's overspent $841,000. but you still budget 2027, 600,000. So what's the reason? You've already overspent almost double.

Well, the reason why it's budgeted at $600,000 a year for the last three years, even though it's been overspent, is we're working on the assumption that it's a level-funded budget within the city and what we try to do with that line is, and we have been successful in the past, we're doing year-end transfers. Year-end transfer is, when we can take money from another general fund budget appropriation that has a surplus and allocate that over to a line in another budget that has a deficit. Now, the reason why you wanna do that is because you're not gonna hurt your free cash calculation at the end of the day. So the year-end transfers, they do occur. They're gonna occur in two more budgets that I'm gonna talk about tonight.

and as previously mentioned, it has occurred in public safety over time, but we try to find surpluses where we can and have those covered before July 15th.

So you expect 2027 the city leave buyback will also cost like 2026?

I hope not. that occurs when people retire and leave the city. It's a benefit that the city has, and these people accrue vacation time, sick time, et cetera, and when they retire, they're entitled to that benefit to be paid out. And it's certainly variable. Yeah, I believe if you look at the actuals just a couple of years ago, I think the number was 550,000 or something. And then this year here, it's exorbitant. It's really high in 2026.

Yeah, that's why I'm wondering why you still only budget for 600,000, even though 2026 spend like 1,441,000. I'm just asking the rationale why you still only budget 600,000?

Because we were asked to fund a level funded budget and that's what we're doing. We're asking department heads throughout We'll be asking department heads throughout fiscal year 2027 to watch their spending, monitor their spending, and if there is areas where there is a deficit, we're gonna ask the council to approve a year-end transfer from one one appropriation to the other.

So my question is, this is not to reflect the real situation because you know this will overspend These 600,000, you just expect, you just hope, if really overspend, you will get some money from like a free cash or from some other place to... to compensate that. But that's still taxpayers' money. We would like to see the budget reflect the real situation. not just because you want to, it shows level funded so then you know, even though you know it will over expand but you still just to make it looks good, but actually you know it will be overspended.

I actually don't know it will be. It can go up and down. It's variable.

Can I just jump in here for just a second to help out? So, and I understand what Councilor Yuan's saying, but this past year you had 841,000. How many people retired in this past year?

I don't know that number.

You don't know how many people retired and made up the $841,000?

No, I don't. I do not know the number. I'd be glad to supply that to you.

Maybe, auditor, could you take a look at that for me that makes up the 800? So how many people are in your department? Ten. Ten.

So there's ten people. Including myself.

Okay, ten, including yourself. And of the ten that's in your department, I mean, anybody could leave at any time, is what you're saying.

That's correct.

Yeah, so, and of those ten, do you do a yearly, like, check-in on how many? sick days and vacation days they have so that you can budget for that? Just wondering. I mean, do you accrue for your, do you have?

We actually do. It's part of the independent audit that we go through each year where they ask for accrued liabilities for the entire city. And I believe if everybody walked out the door today, including yourselves, I think the accrued liability would probably be around $60 million. Let's all go. Let's go.

So what I'm trying to say, though, is that this is why it can kind of go up and down. But you also only have 10 people in your department. So it's kind of just having an understanding. And it's hard. Some years are worse than others. But yeah.

Well, you know, I would think looking at my department there, no one's looking to retire anytime soon. But you're right, you could probably get a better idea probably with a public safety.

Yeah, Eric Mason left your department, so that's one. So I don't know how many other people left. So did he get $841 in accrued vacations? I don't know. There's a whole city. I'm sorry, it's not the whole city. I'm a problem. I was jumping through the whole thing. That's why I was... That's citywide, not my department. That's okay. I was just thinking it was for the 10. So I'm okay with that now. Now I feel much better. So I was thinking it was for your 10. I was like, you have a lot of money for 10 people. That's what I was getting at.

No, no.

But again, this is, so you have an audit, and you get it, and you get it back, and you kind of have an idea of what it's going to be.

I have the report from last year. It's sitting on my desk. They asked for this as part of their audit. to assess some of the risk that the city may have. And one of them, as crazy as it is, is if whatever number of employees we have left, what is that accrued liability?

So just for my own clarification, is it everybody in the city gets the accrued liability, or has that been grandfathered out to be certain? It used to be like dollar for dollar, day by day, and then it was like 50% of year accrued.

No, it's the whole city, and I... I believe it's accrued has paid out. Sick time is, I think, paid out at not your full daily rate. It's paid out at, I believe, $50 per one day you have accrued on the books. The vacation is 100%. Vacation is 100%, but it's not paid out for, say, if I have two, I never take a vacation and I have 200 days in the books in the next 20 years. I don't get paid out 200 days. It's shame on Paul for not going on vacation. I believe the maximum number... It was two years or something. Yeah. There is a cap on it. Yeah.

So I just think that's important for people to know, too. So I apologize for thanking your 10 employees for getting the $6,000.

Wow. They're probably disappointed right now.

I know, I'm so sorry. You have to be here for 32 years over. I just wanted to ask, I'll send this back to Susan. It's hard for them to do it.

Okay, go ahead. I'll finish my question. So the same page, item 570300, the dues subscription, it went over from 12,000 to 67,000. Even though I see your revised the budget is for fiscal year 2026, revised become 47,000, but then you increase to 67,000, so I just want an explanation.

Sure. I wanted this budget to accurately reflect the spending that we have in these budget lines. So what I did, When I became Director of Municipal Finance, I went through that line, I put together all our dues and descriptions, and I have them on this sheet. The items that should fit in there add up to approximately $65,264 in expenditures. We had budgeted 12,000, so, in 2026, so I wanted this year's budget to more accurately reflect the actual expenses being paid out of that line. I would be glad to supply these subscriptions slash dues that make up that line to all the councils. If you want, I can give it to you by email, but I do have a copy and it's right here.

Okay. Yeah. Councilor McKee? Yes, hi. So actually going back to the business manager line that Councilor Ryan mentioned, you said that that is a position bonus of ten thousand dollars but it also sounds it seems like there's you said two Salary, how is this determined that there would be two salary jumps here? That's a 21% increase over the previous year. and even if we added $10,000 to that, it would be like $132,000. I guess I'm trying to figure out.

so union employees are entitled once a year to request a job upgrade. Would that job upgrade typically, they will submit added job responsibilities, et cetera, that they've taken on that would justify an upgrade. That upgrade is then, it goes through an upgrade process with, I believe, HR. in the Mayor's Office, and sometimes upgrades are approved, sometimes they're not, but this particular, position, I believe has gone through two of those upgrades over the last two years. And then the $10,000 was for an employee in my department that retired. We did not fill her position. She made about $64,000 a year at the time. So instead of filling the position, we gave added responsibilities to three other people

and gave them an upgrade in salary of $10,000 a piece and reduced our personal services line by the $34,000 by eliminating that job.

So the one time per year job upgrade, that's already happened for this position, and that's gone through the the union process or whatever HR process?

Correct, I believe about a month ago they finished their upgrade process and so forth and then we got the updated numbers to put in the budget.

Okay, so we can't actually change that number, is that what you're saying? No. Okay. What is ERP support agent and ERP main stipend?

So our ERP support agent maintains our municipal finance website, updating budget numbers, local receipt databases, and verifies data integrity. The position's recent focus has been on upgrading the site with new ADA accessibility requirements. So this individual more or less works with municipal finance as a focus on the municipal finance website and does, some projects with IT.

Okay. And then the Maine stipend?

The Maine stipend was put into the budget a couple of years ago for our municipal administrator. who has been asked by Municipal Finance and other departments, not just Municipal Finance, to work on projects outside of his scope.

This is the Munis administrator? Is that what you said?

Yes.

I mean, but the stipend goes to the administrator?

Correct.

Okay. And is that done on this person's daytime job or are they staying extra for that?

Well, this is a stipend, so it's applied to that individual's annual salary.

but I mean, so this person is being asked to do things outside of the department and so is being given a stipend, is that right?

That was the determination I believe two years ago when this was put into the budget.

I guess my concern is if they're not staying extra, then they're getting paid their current salary plus this, but they're only able to do one thing at a time.

I believe when the former CFO put this into the budget, it was the idea that this individual was being asked to do IT functions with Munis that were outside the scope, you know, far the city, outside of the scope of his normal job function.

So it's like a raise? Sure. Is this the same person who might be responsible for the old signature of Eric Mason in the

Oh, no. No, not this individual. Okay. He removed the signature, but he wouldn't be responsible for that, no.

Okay. But that did happen for several months after Eric Mason left.

It did. It was a signature... on a purchase order. It wasn't a signature on a check. It was a signature on a purchase order or vendor's copy only that one copy of that is generated and sent to the vendor. Internally, the purchase order that's distributed amongst clerks, department heads, citywide, that purchase order does not have any signatures on it.

Then I noticed that the ACQ equipment line actually has stuff for a lot of different departments. like trucks and it looks like possibly flock cameras, an ice rink camera. I guess I'm wondering why is this in the municipal finance are all going to be in the same budget rather than in

Well, I assume when this line was added into the municipal finance budget, they wanted municipal finance to have some control over some of these decisions being made rather than not have it at a department head level. If you do notice, it was $400,000 at one point. I cut it down to $100,000 for that reason.

And what is COM data?

Calm Data is the purchase cards that the city uses. It's very similar to a purchase order, but Comdata allows department heads and certain individuals to use basically a credit card, a city credit card that's linked to These organ objects are expense lines, so it allows department heads or purchasing people to even buy stuff off on Amazon and save money, but they can use a credit card to do it and then they can come back and say, oh, please charge this line. 530303, my contractual line. This is a contractual expense. And then municipal finance will process those invoices, make sure the proper departments are charged, and everything works accordingly. It's really convenient for the department heads now.

and I just, I wanted to ask every department that comes up, how many vehicles does, or if any, does municipal finance have?

None.

None, none of yourself, okay. And then I wanted to take a look back at overtime. Let's see. Okay, so a little bit over the budget, $9,000 over budget so far on overtime. Okay. All right. I think that's it for me. Thank you. Jacobs.

Yes, I'd like to go back to the business manager, 510133, two times upgrades. You said that that person's going to $148,730. It's just one person, right? Um, You said it's contractual. Is that person a union employee?

Correct.

Yeah, okay. I just wanted to confirm that. And they got two upgrades in two years? I mean, that's pretty rare. I mean, I don't know. I know a lot of... City employees who try to get upgrades and are unsuccessful. So it seems very, it just seems kind of odd that you could get two and two, like that's pretty good, two for two. I mean. who, I mean, are you involved in that? Are you involved? I'm not in the union. Yeah, are you involved in the process of the upgrades? No, not at all.

Employees that are in the union. What union is that person, what union is that person? Supervisory.

Supervisory.

You know, I would encourage my employees to always apply for an upgrade.

Yeah.

But I'm not on a committee that says the AA.

Thank you for answering my question. That was a question. Thank you.

Any other questions? Councilor Ash?

Thank you. Thank you, Director De La Barba. Which of these positions are union positions? That may be helpful for the discussion.

Manager of Accounts, okay, so myself, Manager of Accounts, and Strategic Asset Manager are all appointees. are all, I'm sorry? Appointees. Okay. And so the rest of the employees? I'm sorry, ERP support agent is an appointee as well.

And so the rest of the personnel? services would be, the rest of the positions above personnel service would be union positions, right?

right, business managers, supervisory union, head clerk, and admin secretary down below, all union.

Okay, so if I look at 2025, the head clerk salary was 136, 150. Was that two employees? It was. assume that one of those employees either did not appear in the 26th budget, right? Correct. That would be the $60,000 that your department was saving and you allocated $10,000 extra to three positions. Correct. Creating a delta of 34 to 30 and some change, right?

Correct.

Okay.

which positions did those extra 10,000, which positions assumed the responsibilities for one of those head clerks that led you to that $10,000 bump? Sure.

the head clerk position, the admin secretary position, and the business manager position were the three that received the $10,000.

with respect to the overtime, it looks like you were at 5245 for the last two years and now you're at 15. What leads you to that line item that jumped this year? Actuals. and that's where your overtime is right now?

It is. And just to explain that, Councilor, there's other departments within and City Hall that do not have an overtime line. I thought it would be better if it was reflected in their budgets. I don't think it was. But Municipal Finance is paying some of the overtime for the tax bills that go out through the assessor's and treasurer's office, et cetera. So a lot of that overtime to the munis administrator that other departments are using are being charged through municipal finance. that's where you see, you know, me asking for more than $5,245 is, you know, water and sewer actually, you know, have overtime for this individual sometimes that gets charged to municipal finance.

And what's the overtime, generally, what's the overtime process? Like, does somebody tell you, I want to get this project done, can I stay X amount of hours, or what's the procedure there?

When we send out the tax bills, we know it's all hands on deck. And depending on how the process is working, our administrative It's hard to forecast how many hours and issues with spooling and whatever they're doing to get these bills out, and they have to get out. So, yeah, but it is. I know during tax bill time that this individual is going to be doing stuff there. Same with water and sewer projects. So we know when this individual is going to be working.

Okay. That's all for me, thank you.

Councilor Hubley.

Yes, thank you. So I might be jumping ahead too far, but on page 33, I hope this is something you can address or whether this is for the assessor afterwards, but I just noticed large jump from 26 to 27 on contracted work? That's, are we too far?

That's far ahead? Could we stick to 135 just for simplicity? I think we're almost through this one, so.

Mahoney. I'm just going to go back to the ACQ equipment. Was that the credit cards? Is that what you said that was? It's other things, right?

The ACQ? Yeah, the ACQ. No, that's acquisition equipment. There was a line put in there that let municipal finance have some control over... some of the purchasing decisions for departments and it's been maintained at 400, I cut it to 100.

So in the fiscal year 20, this is what's messing me up. If you go back and look at the fiscal year 2026 budget, which you say this is the 2026 budget, it looks like it was, 277,500. And then I don't want to pull the packet out that she sent me. Auditor, could you tell me year to date with the price, how much we spent in that line item? 580, 050, 580, 500.

Yeah, one moment please.

That's the last one.

Currently to date, one moment. Oh, sorry. Currently to date we've spent $52,245.

So that makes sense why you're cutting it down by 300. But why is the change that it says 400, 400, 400, 400, 100, but in the fiscal year 2026 budget, it was 277, 500? I'm just...

25, there was $735,000 spent. And then in fiscal 24, there was $251,000. $750. So in fiscal year 26, what was in the fiscal 26 budget, though?

I saw $277,500 leaving.

That was the revised budget, so it appears that... What do you mean a revised budget? I'm trying to understand that. So what was voted on last year at budget time was $400,000 for this line. Okay. and then it appears that there was some money that was transferred out to other lines, I'm assuming within the Municipal Finance Department. Okay. Totaling 176,927. Okay.

So we've only spent 52, so it's not really dropping by 300, it's dropping by a little bit less.

I'm just a little bit confused. Well, no. it's not dropping by 300,000 because I did, I wanna use some of that money in the audit of municipal accounting. So like overall, I decreased the bottom line of this budget in 2027 by 88,483. Right.

Can you increase the audit of Muni Accounting? Because are you getting a new auditor? Because CBiz is just...

Not at this point. Not at this point. I guess firing an auditor and going out to RFP is kind of a sticky timing type of subject. So we're waiting on the... 25 audit to come back probably within the next couple of weeks. And then we would have to go to RFP immediately to get ready for the close of the books in August.

So I just know that CBiz was really late with Holbrooks. They were. And with everybody's. And we made an attempt to go to MMA to find a new auditor, and we're going to have a new auditor. next year. So it can be done. And we did have to go out. But just checking because you don't have it yet. And that does affect, from what I'm understanding, I believe that does affect your bond rating too because they can, and your credit rating if you don't have your audits done. and CBS.

Absolutely, yeah.

And it's not by any means, this is by no means your fault, Director, but it's definitely a big, it's a big sticking point. And I do apologize. I've always thought that your position, and Chris was just telling me, was... and Chief Financial Officer. I didn't realize that Eric was just giving himself that title of Chief Financial Officer, but it was always Director of Municipal Finance. I just learned that tonight. So I promoted you to Chief Financial Officer. You can have it if you want it.

No, I don't.

but no, I just wanna apologize, because that's where I was getting that from, so thank you very much. You're welcome. Okay, Councilor DiBona.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. DelValle, thank you for answering all of our questions here tonight. I want to make a motion to approve the municipal finance item. Motion to approve. Made it a form of motion.

Okay, motion to approve item 135, municipal finance. Any discussion on the motion?

There's no need for second. My only concern about moving this forward, and this is not because I don't agree with his budget, but I do feel like the diff is gonna be something that is gonna haunt me if I just say yes to everything. So we do need to have a visit back. And I know we're gonna go into and the other section, and DIF isn't really in his budget. But I really think we have to roll up our sleeves and get the DIF figured out. But all the people in this department have to work on that with me.

but they all might retire because they're gonna get a big payout.

We'll get more overtime. Okay, so we have a motion on the table. Do we need a roll call vote? All those in favor? Any opposed? McGee, are you opposed? Okay. Duly noted. Okay. Moving on to the next item, reserve fund. Mr. Della Barbara. one line item, page 26 for those following along at home.

Well, there's no change in the appropriation put forward. We're looking for $1,750,000 for stabilization and $250,000 just like last year for reserve appropriation, OPEB. Just a note, want the current balances in either one of those accounts if it's helpful. Stabilization currently has 9,959,287. and the pension stabilization account as $9,291,044.

Any discussion or questions on this item?

The balances?

Sure. Stabilization was $9,959,287. and the pension stabilization is $9,291,044.

DiBona, did you have a question?

Thank you, Madam Chair. This particular reserve fund, OPEB stabilization, has been a line item that at every single council meeting in our budget time, a person from the audience would come up and say, how are you doing on that fund? How are you? OPEB was big many, many years ago. I'm looking at 25, 26, and 27 in front of us. Mr. de la Barber, if you could, how have we come over the years to where we are today based on these numbers?

Well, Councilor, I don't have that historical view in front of me right now. That's something I wish I had it, but I'm going to have to get back to you on.

Because over the years, we've been a lot lower. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me as well, but... We've always tried to climb out of this, and I think we're in a decent position. COVID obviously has, that's why I asked this, COVID 2020 to 2021 and then now where we are today. it looks level funded here, so I don't see any movement at all. So with that, I don't have anybody else make any questions, but I'd like to make, yep, go ahead.

I notice that there's just two reserve accounts, but we have more than those two. Why are we not adding funds to the other reserve accounts?

I'm not familiar with the other reserve.

Sorry, stabilization funds. Is this?

This is stabilization. It's the $1,750,000 appropriation.

Oh, is this all underneath here?

So the stabilization fund has that balance in it, $9,959,000. And then there's the pension stabilization fund has that amount in it. This money here will get transferred into that account. And then this money here will get transferred into this last account.

But what about this one?

That's an inclement weather fund and that's an OPEB fund.

but I mean, why aren't we putting, and what about, are these separate?

This is separate, that's all under water and soil.

Okay, sorry. So the weather fund would be?

So the weather, the weather, the weather, the inclement weather fund. So you're talking about the inclement weather fund.

Would that not be under this budget line item?

Not under the stabilization.

Okay. Sorry.

There would be money going in there, but I can talk about that. Okay.

Sorry. Okay. Never mind. I thought that we had more funds that we were maybe we should be putting money into. So I need to understand that more. Other questions or discussions?

Mahoney?

I was just asking Chris, but I'm going to ask you too. So the reserve appropriation for stabilization, that's just our regular stabilization, correct?

Correct.

OK. And do we take some of that out last year to pay down the taxes?

We haven't taken anything. Money was put aside to pay PEREC, the retirement contribution, last year. That contribution for last year, which we have not made yet, currently 9,579,446.

when will we find out about that? Because I know you changed the, I know we changed the discount rate, but when will we find out, when will we get the city's Milliman's of Actuaries.

We believe it's going to decrease, but not dramatically, from the $9.5 million. It might go down.

So 9.5 is down from the 16 because of the discount rate, correct?

I don't think that was 100% the case involved, but yes, that certainly was a factor.

So there's a chance that the reserve stabilization will be going up. We just haven't accounted for it here, right? No, am I wrong?

I'm sorry.

So because we set aside money for, I'm just making sure, is it really only 1.7? Is this the whole amount?

No, that's the amount we're raising to increase it. The budget right now is $9,959,287. That's where I was getting confused because you told me that number.

I wrote the number down, but okay. So I'm fine now. Any other discussion?

Is that? Sorry. Is that one? $1,750,000, is that the same as the $2 million that the administration said they were gonna put into the stable, or is that the $2 million that they said they were gonna put into free cash? because the administration said they were going that reserves by $2 million. Is the 1.75 million, is that what this is?

Well, I don't know exactly what you're referring to, but this 1.75, is an appropriation that we've done for three years in a row into this account. I believe the $2 million would have been in addition to the $1.75 million to increase it even further, which is, always gonna be the case when we get free cash certified, we'll have options and be able to come to the body. Sometimes it might be free cash, and sometimes it might be other uses. So there is no, like,

there is no $2 million. The $2 million, is that going to be money that we think we're going to have left over at the end of the budget and we'll be able to move that through? This is it? This is the 1.75, this is the 2 million? No, the 2 million. Well, combined.

There's 2 million.

Oh, I see what you're saying. I see it there. Yeah, okay. Thank you. I just wanted to confirm that this is the $2 million they're talking about.

That was in the Mayor's presentation.

Yeah. I believe, yes. That's what I just wanted to confirm. Sorry about the confusion. No, that's all right.

Motion to approve.

There's a motion to approve line item 132, reserve fund. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, you guys have it. Moving on, unemployment compensation. What happened to Department of Grants? Okay, what number is that? Does anyone know what page we're on here? 29, there we go, thank you. Line item 913, unemployment compensation. Any questions?

Councilor Mahoney. This is a quick question. So year to date, Susan, could you let me know year to date what we're at with this? 37. So is this another one you're going to be looking for year-end transfer?

Yeah, like 137 right now. It could be 145 depending on the number of claims throughout the end of the year, yeah.

I think it's at 237 right now.

No, but there's $100,000 budget in that line, so the deficit would be right now $137,000, and it would just increase with modern claims through the end of the year.

So you'll be a transfer for about approximately $130,000 by the end of the year?

Probably, maybe $150,000.

Any other questions on this item?

What we don't have is actuals. I mean, Susan gives them to us, but I'm kind of more used to having an actual right in the budget book.

Well, I have it written down here, 2024. it was $198,662.87. 2025, it was $119,430.86. and then currently this year we're at 237,592.70. Yikes, thank you.

Councilor Ash, oh, sorry. Sorry.

Thank you. What I was going to ask is, if it's been the same amount, $100,000 in the last three years, right? And generally, salaries are gonna go up, and any of your comp claims are gonna be based on your salaries, right?

Well, Councilor, the maximum benefit in Massachusetts is $1,105. Okay. And then, the benefits for the people that are claiming it in the city of Quincy, it's 50% of their wage. or maxed out $1,105 plus $25 per dependent.

Understood. Thank you.

Any other discussion on this item? No. Motion by Councilor DiBona to approve 913 unemployment compensation. Discussion on the motion? No. All those in favor? Any opposed? No. Okay. Moving on. Medicare. Page 30. Any discussion on this item? This is just the match, right? Yeah, Medicare. 30? Yep, FICA. and Medicare. Motion to approve. Any discussion on the motion?

Councilor Yuen. Hello, could you provide a contract to the breakdown of cost by plan this Medicare because it's so expensive? do you have a breakdown of cost by plan?

Well, I think Medicare is separate from the employee's benefits plans where they can pick a Blue Cross Blue Shield in their PPO or single family or whatever. It's entirely separate. This is a contribution that employees and employers need to make. We share the burden. We each pay 1.45%.

Do you have the contract with this Medicare insurance?

don't believe there is a contract for Medicare. It's a tax.

It's probably just statutory.

Yeah, this is a federal withholding. This isn't insurance. This is federal withholding. Everybody has to pay into it their whole life. True. There is a max, right? So we have a motion. Any discussion on it? No? Further?

Okay.

All those in favor? Moving on. Any opposed? No. Okay. Long-term debt. Page 36. Okay, line item 700, debt service. Page 36 being the long-term debt, I take it. any discussion or questions on this matter? Councilor Mahoney.

590103, Principal Long-Term Other. Madam Auditor, could you tell me what the amount we spent on was for 2026?

Ah, yeah, one moment please.

They're very lazy.

To date, we have spent $17,276,950. So that's principal long-term debt.

So it's over by about... 15, 20, 20, 15, 20,000, right?

What was budgeted was 17,254,700. So can we get the debt schedule for that?

Because that would be something that we shouldn't be going over on, it should be. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that's a question that I have. Typically those are things that you should be able to kind of pull down and plug in. It shouldn't be something that we're going over on.

No, it shouldn't be. Basically, their schedules, their plug-in numbers, they should match. When something like this occurs, it's probably just payment instructions on what line to take it out of, whether it's 590103, and sometimes 590109 gets put in there, and then we do a reclass and... Reconciliation and... Yes, we tie it all together. So like the net sum, For 2026, we'll be 75052, but we'll go in there and look at the lines, you know, because they're debt service. They should be nailed.

Yep. So I have the same question on 590153, interest long-term other. Madam Auditor, could you tell me what has been spent there?

What number were you talking about, sorry? 590153. Okay, one moment.

Okay, the original budget was $11,925,508, and what has been spent to date is $12,610,226.52.

So for this budget, I'd like to put it on a hold so we can get that information. So we're not going to pass. I don't want to pass this budget.

Councilor, I can have that to you tomorrow morning. That's fine. Tomorrow.

That's fine. We can pick this one up at the next one just so we can all have it. I think it's important that we all have it.

will place this matter on hold and move on to short-term debt. Oh, I'm sorry, did you want to take more questions?

I'm sorry. Yes, so Director DeLaBarbera, with respect to the POB, this is kind of the year at peaks, right? This 37, 169, 358.

Well, yes, technically last year I would have gone to it, but I did notice it went up about $200. But yeah, the jump in debt service occurred last year on that.

Understood. And then with respect to 590151, interest long-term schools, what play does that have? What does that account have to do with the MSBA, if anything? this is the interest on the loans that we have taken out and I'd be happy if Chief of Staff, Mr. Walker, would rather answer, that's fine, I know it's, kind of, I guess, why isn't that in the QPS budget? Why would that be here in the debt service budget?

Through you, Madam Chairwoman, that's simply because City has the authority, the mayor has the authority, this body has the authority to appropriate funding. The school department has no authority to appropriate funding. They can allocate. They can allocate. Okay, thank you.

Any other discussion on this matter? I think, did we have a motion to approve? Oh, no. Oh, my apologies. Okay, so no further discussion, we'll move on. Okay, we'll take that up at another meeting. So the next one will be the short-term debt. Page 37, line item number 752. Yan.

Thank you, Chair. So I have a question. According to the Hilltop Security, the debt book, The total due on the shortened interest is $26,151,000, but you only budget for $16,646,000. I'm wondering why.

Well, let me answer that question and then I want to point out something in this budget to everybody. from looking at the schedule provided to me by Hilltop Securities. I think what you're seeing is the $16,646,432.92 on the schedule, 33 there. That is the net interest payable on the bans.

So does that mean you use the bond premium to pay down the interest, so the interest going down to 16 million?

That's correct.

But the bond premium is not free money. Usually it's by the trade-off of interest rate. So the borrower, like a taxpayer, actually still... paying this bond premium by the higher interest.

Correct.

So I think you should at least disclose that we are not only just pay $16,646,000. for short-term debt. Actually, we are paying 26,151,000 for short-term interest, short-term debt interest.

So the band premium we received, investors had given that to the city because they want to get back in return. bond anticipation note that bears a higher interest rate that makes that ban more marketable in the secondary market. So they're giving us more money to be able to have a band that's more marketable in the secondary market should they choose to sell it. Now, the city receives that money. what should we do with it? One of the permissible uses that we have, is to pay down the debt. So instead of paying back a higher debt service number, we just put the money aside and then pay the interest rates on the bands, what the actual is. And that's why we're paying the net.

Yeah, I understand that, but you should separate the bond premium, separate, then you, show the really city is paying shortened debt interest is 26 million, 151. So people know how much they paid for this shortened debt interest. because otherwise you just use the bond premium to pay down these interest. So people say, oh, we only just paid $60,640,000. of $6,000 for the shortened interest. So I think for the transparency, you should disclose this.

Okay. Just to make a comment on this, there was an error on the bottom line number for the short-term notes. I don't know if you received an updated

We did, yeah.

Budget detail page.

You guys are moving along.

Okay. Page 37. They have it? Is it the updated number? They have the updated number? Yeah, okay, so yeah, that number was reduced by $812,615, and you'll see when you... When you look at the water and sewer enterprise funds, that's actually the short term debt that should be in those funds. It was double counted when the budget was originally put together. It's been revised down from the original. Just wanted to point that out.

So do we need to make a motion to accept the amendment? Oh, Councilor Mahoney.

Yeah, I'm going to be tabling this because first of all, I appreciate Councilor Yuen's questions. And I do think that with everything that we're doing, the fact that last year we used premiums on the bond sales to lower the taxes. And we can go back and forth on that, Chris, but it's what you projected and what you told us you were doing. and then to say like, well, it's not really 26, it's really 15, not 16, it's really 15. There's a lot of moving numbers here. But more importantly, what we're talking about is, when we had the debt presentation and both you and Cinder stood in front of me and I said, what's the $14 million add up to? And you said the $508 million of short-term bans that we took out this year. And it was wrong. and I know you know that it was wrong because I said, uh-uh, and you said, I guess I'm wrong. But I do think, I did ask for this. I think I asked you for it and I asked the auditor for it and she gave it to me tonight.

So the 14, this is the short-term debt for the 14 million does add up, I have it now. and what we're gonna be looking for is the same thing, but what I will say is that we should be getting this information. It's nice that we bundle it all up, but we're the ones, we're the, the council is looking at this budget and trying to pass it for you, but we have no vision into this. and when you're saying, yeah, it's premiums and we're paying it down, it all sounds great and I'm sure it's happening, but what we're really looking for is detail and everybody in the city should be allowed to get the detail of where it's going and that's where Council UN's going with this because, if we're strictly going off of the 508 and what was presented at Debt Council, we would be going off of that roughly three, three and a half, 4%, which would be much higher than the $15 million. So I just wanna make sure we're all clear about that. So with this, because of the DIF, and I also wanna make sure that we're putting a hold on the debt service, we're gonna put a hold on the interest short term, and we're gonna look for some, you know,

You should have, for the short term, you should be able to have a rolling budget that plugs in also for next year. That should also tell us what the premiums are as you sell and if they change, we, the council, should be informed of that. And that's just how I feel, and whether or not the administration feels that way, but I think, Paul, you'll be able to share that with us, because I think it would be helpful, and the dialogue as we move forward. So I do thank you for that, but I'd like to table this for now.

Okay. Thank you. Any discussion, further discussion on this? Okay, so we will move on to retirement and pensions. Page 28. Here we go. Page 28, Retirement and Pensions, line item or category 911. And then we'll let Mr. de la Barba go. Any discussion on this item? Retirement and pensions, right?

It's the para-payment.

Is this what we believe are being billed for PEREC is the $9,749,500? That's correct.

We had that in a letter from PEREC.

We had it in the letter from Perrick last year, too, but we didn't put it in the budget. So just checking. Just want to make sure. All right.

Any discussion?

I believe that's, Councilor Yuan was asking me and I'll just ask it for you. The reason it's going down from 16 million to 9749. Do you have a reason for that?

Well, at the time when we did the appropriations from the stabilization, the budgeted amount we appropriated through sources of other funds was $16.1 million. It just turned out the actual is gonna be, nine, five.

So is that actually what happened, or is it because we changed the discount rate in the retirement, so we kind of loosened up what we had to bring in, and PARIC then made some adjustments to it, and the new bill is $9,749,500.

I believe there's a combination of factors, but I don't know the specifics off the top of my head right now, but I'd be glad to share that.

The other part of the specific is once you change the discount rate, and it lowers the amount that PARIC's gonna be charging to the city, but it still ends up being the substantial difference between the actuary study and what we've paid in that we owe back.

we did have the discount rate changed, which definitely brought the number down, but I also think there was an actuary study done on top of that, and I think this is a combination.

Is that the actuary study done from PARIC or the actuary study done by Milliman, by Quincy?

By Quincy.

Okay, so it's two different things. So the bill that comes in from PARIC isn't gonna take into effect the Milliman. Actuary Study. That's a separate actuarial study that I believe the city said we would have back by January. And this is by no means anybody's fault. I'm just repeating what we were told by January. it's now May and we don't have that back. This is the bill that you received in from Parrick saying the city of Quincy now owes $9,749,500, right? That's correct. Okay, that's all, we're good.

Okay.

Any other discussion, questions? No? motion to approve? I would just like to make one comment. So the 2026 budget of $16,100,000, that was not in the original budget though, right?

No, I believe the number was zero.

Correct.

So this is where this budget book is not transparent because 2026 budget is zero. but you're doing actuals now and saying this is what it is. So the history of, this is where I've always gotten so confused in the city of Quincy because we just changed the numbers. You voted on something last year. I'm not saying you do, Paul, I'm just saying, that you can't call it the 2026 budget because one would assume it's the 2026 budget that the previous council voted on. It either has to be actual or it has to be the budget that the council voted on. It can't just be changing year to year. And we have the actuals that the auditor gives us for this year, but as we know, there'll be transfers at the end of the next year. But there's no way for us to anybody to look at this and be able to follow it because that 16-100 was a big, were all at the bone of contention at the end of the year last year, and now magically it's in the budget. It's like, it never happened. It just never happened. and it did happen. So that's a problem. It's a transparent problem.

I'm going to keep saying that word because I know that the administration loves transparency and that is what we call transparency.

So thank you. will vote for this now. Can we table it? I want to learn more about this. I think we have a lot of questions about that.

There's a motion on the table to approve it. So we would, I guess, have to vote on it? Pardon me? Okay, I would just, I didn't get to finish my point, yes, Now the point has been made that this was a zero budgeted item. So this is a little bit misleading. I agree with Councilor Mahoney on that. The other thing I'd like to make a point of, as everyone knows, I attend a lot of the pension board meetings. I hope we will continue to revisit the discount rate. and not keep it at the elevated rate that brought this down? And do we have the Milliman Report yet or not?

We have it yet, Rick?

It's a yes or no, really.

We don't have it yet. We're still looking for information from the actual, our actual.

I just, well, I said it was a yes or no, but.

Excuse me, Council Chair. to Director Dilbaba's point, we don't have it yet. And it's not on Milliman's side. They're still looking for information. They're still trying to qualify information from the Pensions Actuary. Just don't consult it. They have some discrepancies on some of the factors they're using, so they're really digging in and want to get an accurate actuary evaluation. I did say yes, the answer is no, we don't have it yet.

Any further discussion? We do have a motion on the table, so I will ask for a roll call vote.

Councilor Ash. Yes. Councilor DiBona. Yes. Councilor Hubley. No. Councilor Jacobs. No. Councilor Mahoney. No. Councilor McKee. No. Councilor Ryan. No. Councilor Yuan? No. Chairman Riley?

No. So we'll table this one. Okay. Okay, Mr. Della Barbara, I think that we've beaten you up enough tonight. Moving on to our treasurer collector, Molly Smith. Welcome, Molly.

Welcome. Let's lighten up the mood a little bit here. Page 34.

So maybe while you guys turn, thank you guys for having me. I've had the pleasure of chatting with a handful of you, but for some of you who I haven't met, and for the benefit of everybody watching at home, I thought I'd start with maybe a brief description of what we do in my department. The collector's office is a little bit more obvious, so maybe I'll start there. as this is the department that most of the city of Quincy residents will interact with. We collect taxes for real estate, water, personal property, motor vehicle, and boat excise bills, as well as parking tickets. You can think of us like the city's billing department. We send out the bills, collect payments, assess late fees, and lien tax titles. Our biggest value add here tends to be more in the customer service end, whether it's walking new homeowners through what their bill represents, helping to guide buyers and sellers in a real estate closing, or showing someone how to cancel their plates at the registry of motor vehicles so that they can apply for an abatement, our office is typically the first phone call someone will make to the city looking for help or advice.

I have a staff, a wonderful staff, that can speak four different languages, so we become a tool for residents of all different backgrounds as they interact with the city. The Treasurer's Office tends to be a little bit more behind the scenes. We're essentially writing the city's checks and balancing our checkbooks. The Treasurer's staff is responsible for funding all warrants and payrolls, paying all state and federal taxes, making timely debt payments and reconciling all bank accounts. We also collect interdepartmental receipts and are responsible for depositing all city funds into their respective bank accounts. Once the funds are received in the City's coffers, we turn into liquidity managers, working on making sure the City's funds are safe, liquid, and generating a small yield. The Treasurer's staff works hand-in-hand with our banking partners to ensure our money is held safely and soundly, ensuring that our funds are working smarter for us.

So with that, as we look at the FY27 budget before you, my expenses are broken into three categories, personnel, contractual obligations, and other expenses. So starting with personnel, you might notice that some lines have dropped to zero over the last two budget cycles. We are continuously looking at ways to be more effective and more efficient. and over the last two years have worked closely with their union representatives on how we can best staff the department. We've reduced our overall head count over the last couple years by combining roles and shifting responsibilities and have created a new flex clerk that is cross-trained to cover both the collector and treasurer's windows depending on the volume at the time. Moving on to contractual expenses, the bulk of this is contained in the communications line. This really represents a city-wide expense, as my office primarily covers all postage-related expenses for most city departments.

This includes envelopes and postage for all bills issued by the city, as well as postage for checks that leave for vendors and other letters sent by city departments. Mass General Law requires that various bills or notices be sent out by various departments, and so all of those flow through the mail and the mailroom that I oversee. My last category is other expenses. These would include office supplies, various subscriptions, conferences, and insurance premiums for various staff members that are required to be bonded under Mass General Law. So with that, thank you for your time, and I'd be happy to answer specific questions.

Any questions from the Councilors regarding, Councilor McKee?

Hello. How are you? So I have some questions. The third line down, Assistant Treasurer That is going up 35% from the 2026 budget, which seems like a very, very nice raise.

Yeah, and it's certainly well-deserved. That's part of what Paul's experience on his team as well, that that's part of the union negotiations and the union upgrade committee. part of the, okay, so that's all. Yeah, the Union Upgrade Committee. So all out of my purview, but I'm certainly an advocate for this specific individual. They're fantastic.

Okay, so we can't really cut that. And how many head clerks are there?

So that line has four people in that role.

and that it seems like that has that how many people were there last year compared to this year?

So there were four, there was one, so you'll see that head admin clerk on the bottom. I think that, and that person, I had to do a charge credit in the middle of the year, didn't get swept up in some of these movements. So she was in there but shouldn't have been. So it was, I'll have to double check for you from last year. I believe it was four. No, that must have been three. I'll double check for you, I don't wanna guess.

they got an upgrade, the head clerks as well got an upgrade.

So what I did, and again this happened over two budget cycles, I had eliminated, it was just as people retired or as people moved on from my department, we took a pause instead of, filling the role immediately, we decided to maybe think it through. And so we said maybe we don't necessarily need this position so maybe what we can do is combine, take those responsibilities, merge two together. So that's essentially what I did is I merged two roles together as people were leaving and thought maybe I could be a little bit more thoughtful with the staffing.

Okay. This line struck me, the printer slash bank messenger, it's only going up 3% from last year, but from the previous year in 2025, it was a 70% jump. That sounds like someone who just takes things to and from the bank. How is that... getting that much money, I guess.

So that is three roles. What you're looking at or pointing out between 25 and 26, that individual was paid out of a DPW line. We shared. I had the admin responsibility over that individual but DPW was paying them and it just became very it was very gray because I was managing them but they were being paid out of somewhere else and to just to be really honest, it was just a pain to put their vacation time in. So I said maybe we can reduce, so it's a net zero to the city, we reduce the DPW line and just move them over to my line.

Okay, that's great. I did notice in the communication line, which is quite large, There's also things that are not communication, but cameras, laptops, I can't read my handwriting there, but it's something else which should, I guess it seems, why is that not in the professional tech?

So something that's important to me is that we have the ability to be responsive under any circumstance. So the snowstorm was a great example. My team still has to fund payroll. I can't tell city employees, you can't get paid because the city offices are closed and my staff couldn't come in. So to me, that's communication. I still need to be funding and communicating with the banks. I still need to be making debt service payment. If the city buildings are closed, Treasury still needs to operate. So part of our business continuity plan within my internal team is that a few key members of my team have laptops that should stay at home. They're monitored, right? IT has them. They're trusted staff members. They need to be... funding payroll, even if the city is closed. So that's part of my business continuity plan.

I also noticed that the communication budget for the actual expenses for 2025 were $382,000 and then so far year to date, $293,000. So I was thinking in the interest of saving money, that I would make a motion to reduce this communication line to $400,000.

So before you do that, might I make a suggestion? So I still do have one more tax bill mailing. So it is the 2027 Q1 2027 bill needs to be in the mail on May 31st. So I need to have it generated, printed, and postaged. by that date. So it technically ends up being an FY26 budgeted item that is representative of an FY27 budget. and what I would add too, it's hard for me to predict what other departments are gonna do. If the city needs to send out an abutter's notice, that is a requirement. So I can't turn around to that department and say, I have no money in my budget. You can't do that. So I respectfully, of course, would always err on the side of caution on this line item.

Do you know how much that typically costs for the four?

A real estate tax bill mailing, I have it somewhere in my papers, is about $27,000. I'm sorry, per quarter. Yeah, and so that's, again, so that doesn't include the water. That's every department's postage. So that's something that we do. I retract.

on this budget item? Anyone? Okay.

Councilor either one of you.

Hubley, did you have a question or do you want to make a motion?

Yeah, just a question, sorry.

Okay, go right ahead.

Sorry.

I'll take the motion.

We'll get there. Yeah, just trying to think forward. This is a question I've never really asked myself, is how do you predict when post-trade rates change? I mean, is there... a standard interval that's somewhat predictable? And do you afford for potentially unexpected changes to postal rates?

So you're also kind of going into Councilor McKee's question where, yeah, I mean, the USPS can decide to make a change. So they've already said in July, they're going up to 82 cents a stamp. We pay, depending on, every year, everyone loves Postage, so I always get really deep into Postage, so we pay bulk Postage Rates using our mail sort provider out of Brockton. So we had a discounted rate there. If mail is going out through the city, we're paying the full USPS price. So yeah, to your point, if the post office says I'm raising the prices, and if we've cut that budget, then I may be faced with a dilemma there as we go through the year on telling and departments that they couldn't do a mailing.

Right, and we also don't know to what extent we're going to be doing large batch versus small batch, which has a different rate and it's handled differently based upon tiers of pricing.

It's like, and to that point, if you're sending out a certified letter, I forget, it's like $13 a letter. quite expensive to send out certified mail. So I think health department has to send out, they are required to send out different types of mail. So you're right, I'll have no idea. And each department will generally not have a great idea of what they're going to be required to send out.

Yeah, and I'm sorry, I missed the date that you said that they advertised they were going to be increasing the price. It's July 1st. And so you've afforded for that.

So I actually, in this budget, am... hoping that, so in addition to some of the projects that we've been working on, we've been working on a new online payment platform. So I'm also hoping to save some of that postage to start blasting residents with information on that. And as of July 1st, we'll be able to offer e-billing. right now it's about 90 cents per bill. So all inclusive that I, between the envelope, the return envelope, the printing of the, the bill itself. So my hope is that I can push many, many residents to e-billing. It's something like take off my treasure hat, put on my resident hat. I'd love an email. like don't send me any more mail. So as we migrate to that system, my hope is that we'll see cost savings over time in the real estate and the water billings.

Yeah, and I believe I owe you a return email on that topic. I'm sorry, I'm a little tardy on that one.

I will call you out on it, but yeah. We'll get to it. And to that point, if anyone I've kind of reached out to people who have expressed interest, or I know you're on the Technology Committee. So I'm happy to sit down with people and chat about it. And we're going to start blasting residents' postcards, inserts in the bill. So there's going to be a lot of information, social media. So hopefully everyone will see it and enroll in e-billing.

That's all I have. Thank you.

McKee, did you have more questions? Just a couple quick questions because I meant to be asking everybody the same set. So how many employees do you have?

I have, there's 13, and that includes myself.

Okay. and how many vehicles do you have?

Zero.