LIVE: Quincy City Council (Finance Committee) - June 11, 2026

. .

.

Thank you.

Good evening. Good evening. I'd like to... Oops, did I get it? Yes. I'd like to call to... Is it working? I should have done a mic check.

Please hold.

Again. Why didn't I do a mic check?

Namaste.

Higgins.

Okay, let's find it.

How about now? Testing. Hello? Still off. It's off. Hello?

Okay, good evening. I would like to call to order the June 11th. Does someone want to get Jen or let her know we're all set? I don't know where she's running around. Call to order the June 11th Quincy City Council Finance Committee meeting. and start by reading the Open Meeting Law. Pursuant to the Open Meeting Law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Ash, DiBona, Hubley, Jacobs.

I know he's in the room. Mahoney. Present. McKee. Here. Councilor Ryan. Present. Councilor Yuan. Present.

Okay, so this meeting has been called so that this body may discuss information relative to the Council Orders 2026-076, Eastern Nazarene College Acquisition, and 2026-077, appropriation for $22,500,000. for Eastern Algerian College land acquisition. More specifically, several councilors have toured the ENC campus buildings on June 3rd. Some have viewed the appraisal for the property, and others have met with ENC representatives on Monday, June 8th. That meeting was prompted by an email sent by Solicitor Timmons on late Friday afternoon, which I'd like to read into the record. This was sent on Friday, June 5th at 4.36 p.m. I just concluded a phone call with the mayor following a lengthy phone call I received from Attorney Frank Marinelli, ENC's counsel. Frank called to advise that the ENC Board met today and among other matters discussed what was going on in Quincy. The Chair of the Board, David Bowser, has been watching the City Council meetings and is very concerned about the sale.

As a result, he and President Colleen Durr are both coming to Quincy on Monday and are making themselves available to meet slash speak with city councilors. They will meet with you individually or in a group. Due to open meeting law concerns, the group must be four or less in number. Frank was directed by the Board to call me and extend this invitation. I spoke with the Mayor, who was delighted to hear of this opportunity for you to share your questions directly with the Board Chair and College President. I have copied Frank Marinelli on this email. He told me he is available all weekend and will check his emails. If you would please reach out to Frank directly with a reply all to this email, he can facilitate scheduling. The Mayor has not been a direct party to any discussions with the Chair and President today, so he has no authority to participate in any scheduling. He indicated he will do whatever he can to assist, but we should work through Frank for now. Jim. Due to the open meeting laws, we cannot discuss these matters as a body unless we convene a properly noticed open meeting, which is why we are here tonight.

It is not my intention to take a vote on this matter this evening. We have already scheduled a meeting for Monday, June 15th for that purpose, and it is my hope that this meeting will make Monday evening more efficient as a result of our discussions. I ask that you please silence your cell phones. And if you need to have a conversation, please take it outside. Thank you. And with that, I will open it up to my fellow councillors with any comments, questions. McGee, one moment.

So I was one of the counselors who met with the E&C president and board chair. So I can just give everybody a little update about how that went. We met together with Councilor Yuan and we were told that the will not extend the deadline. We didn't ask, but they just volunteered that. They wouldn't say how many other interested parties there were. and they can't communicate with any other interested parties. We were told that You know, the board chair had been watching the meetings and he was saying that we were asking some questions that were in the materials that we've been given.

which included some detailed numbers about costs of maintenance, et cetera, for running ENC. and in reference to a drive of information about an environmental report and inspection reports. After that, I went back and looked. I was not able to find those, but we've been in touch with the administration to get access to those. They said that they had been in negotiation for more than a year with the previous developer who had had been working on, I guess, had an agreement to buy potentially the campus. They said that that plan and the city plans are similar.

They said when we asked about the assessment price, which is I think around $56 million, as we were talking about how that was different from the $21 million sale price, they said, that was kind of the top level price that they could get if with everything that was inside the college when it closed. So all of the stuff, all of the equipment, some of which was quite expensive. and they they weren't expecting that and because you know unless another college just bought it right away but they had hoped for more than $21 million. They did not know that the city was going to put that information out about the sale price.

Their carrying costs, they said, are $250,000 per month. That's including interest on loans. and I mentioned that the $40,000 in the document we were given was and what the city estimated would be the monthly cost for maintaining the property. They said maybe that's just for electricity. So I've since been provided the information about the costs that ENC had given to the city. So I can talk about that later. But anyway, that's the general synopsis of my discussion, our discussion. Thank you.

Yuen, since you attended that, do you want to add anything else to what? Hang on one second. There you go. Go right ahead.

So at the meeting I asked the ENC president and the board chair if the city has done any inspection of the property and they said the formal buyer, the crane company did the environmental report and inspection and those data actually belong to ENC, and the ENC has shared those data with administration. So we just say, oh, why city council didn't know this? have access to the environmental report and the inspection? So I sent the email to Mr. Timmons, the solicitor, and he said, He saw that that's confidential, so he would discuss with ENC lawyer.

Then later, ENC lawyer emailed back, say, ENC has no obligation to give City Council access of the environmental report. So that's, we got it so far. So City Council, had an opportunity to see the inspection data in the environmental report.

Thank you. I'll just add that, you know, when it comes to inspections, being in the real estate business, generally a party who has had an inspection is not going to share it with another party. Typically it's buyer beware, so the buyers need to do, and I remember the days when properties might have two or three deals fall apart and each buyer would do their own inspection and interestingly different things would often be identified by different inspectors so it's not uncommon that the person who receives and pays for an inspection is not going to share it with someone else. They need to perform their own inspection. So I think that's fairly normal.

Thank you. So we did ask why the Crane Company shared the data to ENC. ENC said that's actually the property of of ENC, the environmental report. And they did share it with the city. So I'm just wondering if they, they are already willing to share with the administration and the administration come to city council want to get an acceleration of a bond then city council should also have access to this data. So that's just what I think. If city council couldn't see this, then I assume city should do its own inspection.

Are you saying that the city was provided, the administration was provided with the environmental report?

Yeah, comprehensive environmental report. If I remember correctly, they said they have 1,800 pages. Oh, hang on.

One at a time.

I remember 1900, but it was very long. They did say it was clean, but they said that it had been provided to the administration and They said it had been referenced in our materials. I wasn't able to find it, but I believe we got an email, and I have had so many emails, possibly this afternoon from the solicitor saying, something about this environmental report. So you have that? No. No.

Hang on.

Are you all set, Councilor McKee? Yeah. Okay.

So I got the email yesterday, I think. Let me see. Get confused. Too many emails. and it's the lawyer of ENC send the email and says it to you and the solicitor say, ENC has no obligation to give City Council access of environmental report. So that's the, I don't know if later they send the email, I didn't check email for last couple hours. and also I'm wondering if city council couldn't have access to that data, does the city plan to have its own independent Inspection. You don't have to do comprehensive environmental report, but for inspection, any property transaction, you need inspection. Each buyer do its own inspection.

So I'm just asking if a city is going to do that. Is that a question? Is that something you can field, Mr. Walker?

Through you, Madam Chairwoman, this is somewhat news to me, so I'd have to talk to the team and figure out exactly what conversations took place, what was shared, what wasn't shared, what's available, what's not available.

Okay.

It would certainly seem that, like I said, if ENC isn't willing to provide it, that's understandable. But if they provided it to the administration and not provided it to this body, then that's a different animal. So if we could try to find that out.

Mahoney. Just for clarification, I don't know about the email. I just want to know, was it Solicitor Timmons that said we couldn't have it, or was it the college that said we couldn't have it? I want to hang on a second.

it's the lawyer of ENC sent an email saying ENC has no obligation to give access to city council of environmental report, but he did say he provided that report to CTE on May 5th, if I remember correctly.

So what I would suggest is that we should not be having to ask. We shouldn't actually. I don't even understand the value of having any city councilors go and sit with the president or a board member. this is a seal and typically you would not. That's just a strange thing that we were asked to do. It came in late on a Friday afternoon saying, you know, whatever the email said suggesting that people are watching and they want to talk to you. Well, that's great, but we're not here to talk to the seller. We're the buyer, and the city's the buyer, and we're the city council, the finance team that has to look at the finances. This isn't about personalities. It's not about the location. The location's beautiful. the city's finances are at $1.8 billion. And I must add that there's been no other mayor that's ever got to spend $1.8 billion. And I bet you if they did, they would have been able to do just as much and accomplish just as much. at the same time, we have $1.8 billion worth of debt and we also have a downtown that we can't figure out the diff.

We're now not gonna sell the Messina lot, we're gonna sell another property that's worth not next to what I think you need to sell because it was just sent to us today. I think the Seville property is worth $400,000. $15,000, and we're going to sell that. So maybe we'll get $600,000, $700,000 for that. But the point is that when we were here the last time, we can talk to the college. and I don't want to talk to the college because the college is for sale. I didn't negotiate the deal and it doesn't matter if it's June 15th or some other time. That's an arbitrary date for me as far as I'm concerned. What we're being asked to do is buy this property and SaveENC, which it's a nice thought to think you're saving ENC, but you're not saving ENC. You're saving, you know, ENC is not gonna stay. It's gonna be sold to a developer. it's gonna be sold to a different developer and they're gonna develop that area over there. So I wanna protect that neighborhood but we also have to look at it in the sense of how we can protect the taxpayers too because it's very expensive what we're talking about.

Just to put into perspective, $1.8 billion in the city of Quincy with 103,000 people, the debt per capita, per person, not per voter, per person is close to $18,000. So when you think about that, in my family, it's a family of five. Five of us are on the hook for $18,000 if something was to happen. So I just, that's why we're struggling with this. We're looking for a way to do this. And when we're looking at this presentation that was provided to us in the the economics of this deal, what I'm seeing is if we get 100% of this right, we'll be okay. But there's no sensitivity reporting where it's like, but what if it's only 75%? What if it's 50%? What if you don't hit all your marks? What if it's like the Messina property that we bought in 2018 and then we had a $300 million developer come into the downtown, promised us a tower, and promised us a Performing Arts Center and walked away.

We don't have that, that $300 million. We never got the answer to what happened to that $300 million. but we could own that property and it could end up being costing the taxpayers money and we have to be careful about that. But when we go further and we ask questions like put more things, We want more things sold. We get the Seville. The Cena comes off. We get the Seville. That's just not enough. So the message to the city right now is we can come back on Monday night, but we need to bring more to the table to be able to make this something that we can all get behind. and if the city councilor is asking for something and the city got it, we have the right to have it, especially when we're making a decision like this. So, you know, that is, that is not, that's something we should be able to have and I'm not quite sure what's happening here but when we ask for things, we're not able to get. So we just got it. So I don't have my phone, so I can't say. But we just got it. So thank you, we just got it. But it's not the comprehensive report.

So thank God we got it at 6.20.

Thank you. If I could take a little privilege and move on to the, oh, did you want to add something about the meeting that you had? I'm trying to have a little bit of structure here.

Okay.

I was not there at the meeting. I was not able, my schedule didn't allow, and I really didn't have any questions for the seller, but I commend you, Councilor McGee and Councilor Yuan, have taken the time to see what information might be gleaned from that, so go ahead.

I just wanted to thank them actually for having that. I tend to want to get as much information from as many sources as possible and just kind of lay it out and move it around and put it into tables. So I was quite glad to be able to have that opportunity and I just wanted to thank them for that. Okay, thank you.

So if I could, for those of us that were able to tour most of the buildings we got into, I will say, as a real estate agent, I'll just give kind of my first summary. The campus has been surprisingly well maintained despite being closed for over a year. It seems like they have one and a half people that are Mowing and kind of taking care of the place. They are using it for police training, but it's not being all messed up. I was glad to see that. I guess they bring in the dogs and do that kind of exercise. Some of the buildings are really old and some are mid-century modern, I guess, but they've been well maintained. I think Eastern Nazarene College has been really good stewards, and it seems like the gentleman who gave us the tour his story was that he came there because his kid was a freshman and his plan was to get whatever tuition

Benefit was that and 20 plus years later he was still there so he's there to close the place up but the one thing, the one building that I did find very kind of sad and disappointing was the Cole Fine Arts Center. It had been used for the of Immigrant Processing, and so that building had seen a lot of activity. It had also been stripped of all of the audiovisual equipment. Unfortunately, Eastern Nazarene had a kind of a fire sale, yard sale, and so Some of the things that would have been useful for the purposes that we've been discussing here, they would have to all be redone. So that's kind of unfortunate because I'm sure they sold the stuff for pennies on the dollar. The gym was in pretty good shape. The dormitories, all of the housing, really nothing was unlivable, I thought. So I was pleasantly surprised at the condition of the buildings.

The question is, how would we continue to keep them from deteriorating? if we were to make this purchase because someone's been there pretty much every day full time. So that's sort of my two cents on the condition of the buildings. The grounds, of course, are beautiful. McGee. You know, it's still a very peaceful place to be, but I'll open it up. Councilor McGee.

Yeah, so I just wanted to say that, you know, I've seen the Save ENC signs in the neighborhood, Protect Our Neighborhood, and I get it. I live in the neighborhood myself, and I love walking through there. I love trees. Those trees are gorgeous. As I've been looking through these materials, The, I think what's behind the Save ENC signs is the idea to sort of keep the campus more or less as it is, so it's still the same beautiful open space. No? Okay, maybe I've got that all wrong then, but it seemed like there was a desire not to put a big development on there. So I guess maybe I don't fully understand what saviancy is. I have various... I'm sorry, could I just continue? I've got a list of things I've made.

one of them is of values and hopefully some of these will resonate with you. Keep the campus more or less as it is so that the can enjoy the open communal areas and people don't seem to want to see a large residential development dominate the space. control the property. So it seems like many folks are worried about what could happen if the developers in the driver's seat have space for community uses, so the library, arts center, and athletic facilities. expanding home ownership and housing options so Quincy kids could buy their first homes via ENC sale and Purchase either the ENC-owned homes on surrounding streets or those vacated by people who move into senior housing. Address flooding.

There's a lot of flooding in the area, and Campus Trees, save the Campus Trees, and they also help flooding, protect the marshes, and minimize debt. That's something else that I've heard a lot about. Those are my list of values. I've been making a little table of all of that. But in terms of keeping the campus More or less as it is, which people in this room are saying maybe this isn't what what they mean by saving and see The city's plans do call for I calculated it out. Selling or leasing 73% of the main campus to a developer for senior housing. So while the library and art center and gym field marshes would remain long term, I just want to clarify that the city's plans as we have them

are to sell or lease about three quarters of the property. So in that sense, it's going to be a different campus. In fact, if you look at the slide show that was posted online, You can see one possible idea and I know that it's not the full idea, but you can see where the buildings are and quite a bit in the middle of the campus. There's buildings, and there would be a loss of trees. I can't really see. I know that the administration says that there would be something put in the documents to save it. There's trees all over, so I don't know how that would work. And the plans presented do show buildings in the center rather than trees. I just wanted to say that. And then I have a long list of other things, but I'll let other people talk.

Thank you. Anyone else who hasn't spoken? Councilor DiBona?

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate your counselors going out and doing some due diligence and getting out into the property and finding out information. I think the biggest thing that I had gotten over the last 48 hours as this resides all on Ward 5 is I said, you know, why don't I reach out to all the Ward 5 Councilors over the last 40 years? So I called Dan Minton, I called Doug Guttrow, I called Kirsten Hughes, I called Steve Durkin and Chuck Phelan. The last five Councilors that sat in the role that you're sitting in right now, Maggie, McKee, and I asked them all the same questions first. How do you feel about E&C? And there was a striking resemblance of all five of them saying,

it's a one in a lifetime opportunity and I've dealt with these folks for 40, 50 years plus amongst all five of them and that it's good for the city. they gave different comments on different things and different perspectives. I had the privilege and honor to serve with three of them, Kirsten Hughes for four years, Chuck Phelan for four years and Dan Minton for two years. Now I sit with you now for the last six months. I had the privilege with Doug Guthrow. He was on the council while I was on the school committee. And Steve Durkin, I've known him for quite a while. He served on the school committee as well as the council. but they all lived in Ward 5 and represented all the constituency of Ward 5 for the last 40 plus years. I wanted to hear from their perspectives. And it was all the same in common.

Common goal is to work for the residents that live in a but that area, but also it benefits the entire city.

Okay.

I'd also like to add that they were counselors that not only were 100% with the mayor, I'll go back on Doug Guthrow for a minute, 2015, he was a candidate to run from Mayer that year. And he lost, obviously. And he went back onto the school committee. He went onto the school committee. I went onto the council. And he was... he was so for this. He was like, I think the mayor is right on this and that the city council can have a lot of dictation on this. all five of them talked about how important it was for the city council to be involved in this process. I think there's a line in the sand where they, I think some of the councils are misled that It's going to be the mayor to dictate this. I think what has happened and transpired is there's a living, breathing document that's in front of us. It's actually an organism.

that is online, that is in front of us today, it's a blueprint of what the administration wants to do to move forward. And it involves us, the city council. I know that Mackie McGee and Walter Hubley sit on the Affordable Housing Trust Committee, and I previously did, and Deb Riley now sits on the Community Preservation Committee. those two bodies committees are going to have to have some involvement with this and just going to come back to hear the City Council. I think what we need to also understand is We also win on this. The city council wins. It's not just the mayor. It's not just the abutting people that live in that particular area. It's not the city of Quincy. The city council wins. If we all work together, this can work. You're in here for the next 18 months unless you do something illegal. You're going to be in here for the next 18 months.

If this gets approved, They've got to come back to the City Council for a lot of appropriations. A lot of different things have to come back here to this body of government. And that's where your role comes in. You want to be part of that role. You don't want to let somebody else dictate this. Somebody else make the decisions for us. We have a role here. We have a fiduciary responsibility, especially in Ward 5. for those particular abutters. I got a really good email from Joanne Bragg, and she served 16 years on the school committee. She's an abutter in that area. and I just, all five of them and Joanne Bragg, I talked to in the last 48 hours. So I wanted to get a perspective of not three weeks ago, but right now. And she brought up some really good things. She goes, Noel, I was on the school committee I was one of the people that advocated and voted for Beachwood Knoll to reopen. I went to point. It's closed. They closed some schools down.

Beachwood Knoll was closed. And in that time period of being closed, she said that the community center was inside Beachwood Knoll. And when she opted to have the kids go back into the school, in elementary school, and they lost the community center. She talked about this could be a great campus for the community center for Ward 5. She also talked about a senior center. She said it's packed up there at the Council on Aging Kennedy Center. It'd be a nice place where we could also have senior Olympics, senior type of activities there. said, wow, that's really nice. So I wanted to talk to all five Councilors, and then I wanted to talk to a perspective that abuts that property that actually served as a school committee for 16 years. And they all had a common goal of reaching out and helping the residents. They talked about East Elm Ave that abuts it. They talked about Satrum Street, which abuts it. they were really, really on board. Hey, listen, you know what? We gotta work together on this.

So I just wanted to give you a little perspective. And if I would give you any advice or observation is reach out to all of them. asked them how their role was to represent Ward 5, because this is a one in a lifetime opportunity. As an at-large Councillor, whenever I serve with the ward counselors, I like to let you take the lead. and in your particular situation, tag, you're it. You are in that role. And I'm glad you're doing your due diligence, but I would suggest you reach out to them. Ask them, you know, how would they, I ask them, how would you, what would be your role if you were sitting up here as a Ward 5 Councillor? And they kind of gained the same spiel. It was good to talk to Kirsten. I haven't talked to her in years. And we talked about kids, but we also talked about how important it was. and it was rude to talk to Doug. I hadn't talked to Doug in a few years too.

I see him here and there, but for them to all say the same common denominator made me think how important it is that this is to the city. and as an at-large, I always try to work with those ward counselors, regardless of where we disagree, disagree, whatever the case may be, we have an obligation to represent the residents that abut that particular project and the City of Quincy. With that, I'm just going to leave it open to whatever you guys want to talk about, but I'm just going to give you a little different perspective of the former people that said it before. And they also said another thing is they said, You know, Bill Delahunt and Steve McGrath would have been calling and they would have said, they would have been in their office going, you know, this is really important for the city. So I don't know if they've reached out to... They were also Ward 5 Councilors at one point, too.

So there's a big legacy of Ward 5 Councilors that we just talked about. and you're in the role now. So everybody's kind of looking to you to see what you really basically do. Because really, in a nutshell, usually, typically, if the ward councilor's on board with the project in that particular ward, the other ward councilor's actually go along with it. Because at some point, you're going to need their vote for something in their particular ward. So people ask me all the time, they say, well, how are they going to get six votes? And I said, Ward 5 Council is the most important because that's the person who represents that particular area. So I'm glad you're doing your due diligence. I would extend it a little bit further with doing a little bit more until Monday night. and hopefully you have the wisdom to come around and your other ward counselors will come on board. So thank you.

Thank you, Councilor DiBona. Councilor Hubley.

Thank you, Chair Riley. So just up front, again, thank you, Chair Riley, for creating this space for us to have this conversation because we're coming up on the deadline that as we learned tonight, ENC isn't willing to kick out. So first of all, thank you for that. Thank you to Councilor Yuan and McKee for following up on meeting with the Chair and the President of ENC. It seems like it was a very useful conversation. You probably got something out of it, and I appreciate you sharing that experience. And also, Councilor DiBona, thank you for or through you, Chair, Councilor DiBona, thank you for reaching out to past counselors. I think that's valuable perspective because I think when you're you look back and say, I wish I knew now, which I knew then, what I know now. And I think that's a valuable experience. In my role in Ward 3, I'm often reaching out to past Ward 3 Councilors just to get their perspective, their domain knowledge.

I've been in the Ward my entire life, but I don't know everything. So it's very useful, and that was a great idea, Councilor DiBona. I was thinking about the past, you know, because we're coming down on crunch time here, and we've got a, you know, over the weekend, really, I was going to just bury my head in all this paperwork and try to come up with the logic behind a decision on a vote. and it occurred to me from listening to the conversations we've had over the past several weeks on this matter that not all of us have a like a history in commercial real estate transactions or transactions of this size and magnitude. And so I'm on I don't consider this a career. This is something I'm doing to serve my community, but I'm on my third career on day jobs. I was a technologist for about 25 years in the telecommunication industry and software development. Then I did a stint in education, and now for the past eight years, I've been working for a real estate developer in affordable housing.

And each of those things I bring with me, and they inform my decision making today. From technology, it informs a lot of my thoughts on our thoughts about the broadband network that's been contemplated. And especially more recently, my past eight years being in real estate development, nothing in Quincy. and being in real estate development for affordable housing, I've been involved in my primary responsibility in that role is I work with design and construction and real estate development. and in that role, whether it's a product I have down in Provincetown, whether it's a project I have in Far Rockaway, New York, or the Bronx, whether it's Louisville, whether it's one that we're looking at in Chinatown, I'm involved in one in Greenfield as well, Massachusetts.

I'm sometimes involved from the early prospecting stage where I'll go out to the site if it's in the area, but as far as Connecticut, it's usually where I go. But we function in about 18 different states here in the United States. And so sometimes I'm part of the due diligence. Sometimes I'm part of the hold period strategy. I'm not part of the financing. That's not my superpower, to use your words, Councilor Riley. but I'm in infrastructure and being involved in, I did some calculations today, I've been personally involved with, for the past eight years, in about 130 large real estate transactions and developments across the country. and that's from beginning to end until we're renting out units. In fact, just finished one over the bridge with Pine Street Inn just this past year.

and when I compare those experiences to this experience, there are some parallels. and, you know, when it comes to the conceptual phase of development, I mean, you'd be surprised when we sketch out a building and then it goes from conceptual, due diligence, conceptual, schematic design, design development, construction design, and then construction, it goes through so many changes. I mean, especially in the upfront part. Buildings lose floors. We lose buildings. It changes. Buildings multiply. There's just a lot of fluidity. And over the past years, past eight years of doing this, I've developed a certain comfort level of uncertainty. Right? We could spend our entire time talking about different scenarios of what if this and what if this doesn't work. And yes, most plans are success-based.

But when I look at this, I start to think about what's the floor and what's the ceiling of the deal. So I don't focus on the best case. I don't focus on the worst case. I focus on what's really going to happen, which is somewhere in the middle. It's not all going to work out as we plan, I guarantee you. In fact, I don't think any of the 130 projects which have turned over thousands of affordable housing units across the country none of them ended up the way they started. I can tell you for a fact, none of them. Some of them that started off four stories high became six. Some of them that started off six became two. It's a really fluid thing. And until you get into it, you're not into it. and so the reason I'm sharing this since we've created this space that seems to be a pretty fluid agenda is just to share that perspective. And when I look at what's being put in front of us,

I realize sometimes there seems to be some gaps and uncertainty and about what about this and what about this. So I think, I guess I would encourage, based upon if I were to share some experience, I would recommend that the council look at it from that perspective. What's the floor? What's the ceiling? And I've done the same thing in business deals that I've done in my life. where I've had investment opportunities. I look at the floor, I look at the ceiling, and I predict it's going to be somewhere in the middle. We're not going to get everything we want. It's not going to be perfect. We're going to lift up a rock and find something under it. It's just the way this business works. it's just the way this business works. So I would say don't look at all the uncertainty with a high level of uncomfortableness. Realize that's part of the gig. this is the gig. We're not gonna know how this is gonna turn out, but I think from what I've seen so far, this is a decent base of information.

And so what I did last week is I compiled what I find to be the relevant documents and sent them out to all my constituents who have signed up for my email list and I published it online and I encourage anyone to go and take a look at it. Does it have everything? No. and we're not gonna know everything. But I think we have to look at this, we have to listen to our constituents, listen to those who went before us, listen to our colleagues, and then realize this isn't going to be perfect. And it's also not going to be terrible. It's going to be somewhere in between. And so I just kind of wanted to share that perspective as we go into the final four or five days. I haven't counted. I don't even know what day it is, for God's sakes. But I just encourage everyone to look at it from that perspective because that's how I'm looking at it. So that's all I have for now.

Thank you. Thank you, Councilor Huey. Thank you. Rash.

Thank you, Madam Chair. To follow up on those comments from Councilor Hubley, what I gleaned from a lot of the sentiments the last meeting we discussed this was that we really wanted to make sure that there are provisions within this deal, some implied and some expressly stated, in which we know that the the potential comes back to us and that we're able to revisit it from time to time, which I don't think is an unreasonable ask or request. So I wanted to share the list of what the council would need approval to move forward in the future. So if the property is acquired in the future, the administration would come back to the council for the following. transfer funds from the Drainage Rehabilitation Fund to offset the portion of the purchase cost attributable to the creation of flood protection infrastructure.

approval of the sale of each of the 12 existing residential lots, approval of the sale of the four residence A lots, that are to be created, approval of the sale of each of the condominium units, approval of any funds recommended by the Community Preservation Committee to offset the portion of the purchase, approval, of the sale of other city lands to be divested, approval of the sale of land or long-term ground lease for senior housing, approval of the lease agreements for multi-year leasing of space for pre-K or after-school programs, and approval of any lease agreement for multi-year leasing of the Covart Center. And we do all have that list in this packet as provided. I found that to be very helpful. and I think that that's something we'll be taking into consideration in these final days of deliberations as well. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Anyone else who hasn't spoken?

McKee. Yes, so I just want to address some of the things that Councilor DiBona mentioned and I'll address a little bit of what other folks have said too. I certainly don't imagine that there's going to be a perfect scenario. Everything has a trade-off. The reason I'm asking questions is to understand what those trade-offs are for every option. And that is what I believe our job is at the City Council. It is to ask questions, to understand things, and to push back sometimes to say, oh, I don't know if this number is right. I definitely care what constituents think. I have been reading every email. I have been taking calls. I have been talking to people, went for a walk with someone.

I understand how much this area means. I've also been talking to people who equally say, don't you dare buy this, blah, blah, blah. So I just want to say that People have different thoughts about this, and everyone has different values. Just asking questions does not to me seem like a problem and that's a culture change I think here because we haven't had a lot of questions sometimes. But my feeling is that my job is to ask questions, to listen to folks, and to try to do the very best job to make a good decision for the majority of residents.

I know that folks have repeatedly come up and said, one and done, you're out of here after 2027, in 2027. I have to say that I really, that doesn't scare me because I have a two-year job and I will do the very best job. I am working so hard. to try to understand everything. So that's how democracy works. It's a two-year term. People can run for office. I encourage them to run for office. but again, I'm not gonna be making decisions based on maybe another ward councilor wants to do a deal in their ward, so I'm gonna make a vote based on that. My votes are going to be based on what I feel is the best decision given every piece of information I have, and sometimes that's going to prove unpopular with some people, and I'm okay with that. So that's what I want to say.

Thank you.

Jacobs.

Good evening. I also want to just echo some of the things I just heard here that I found a little sad. You know, through this whole thing, I saw her in the Patriot Ledger a couple weeks ago that the mayor and some of other city officials have this great tour of the campus and they did this Exposé and the Patriot Ledger. Did anyone here get invited to that? No. No one here got invited to that, but we're the ones sitting here making the decision for the money. Does that make sense? I don't think so. So then that was brought up in a previous city council meeting. And we asked Mr. Walker, hey, when are we going to get in there and see the ENC property? Mr. Walker, did you schedule that tour? No, he didn't. Who did schedule that tour? Oh, the Ward 5 City Councilor, Maggie McKee.

Thank you, Maggie. You know who wasn't there? At-Lodge DiBona. Not there. He wasn't there. And Mahoney there? He wasn't there. I'm just saying he wasn't there. And Mahoney wasn't there. So what I'm saying is, excuse me, I'm talking.

Excuse me. Order. Order.

You spoke. Order. You spoke. It's my turn. Jacobs has the floor. From Ward 1, you know, I'm not really very familiar with the area. I do have family that lives in the area now. And I am much more familiar with this area because of Maggie McKee. So I just want to make that aware. I mean, the administration, they want us to come for $22.5 million. They have done nothing. to help us get that. One thing we've asked is we have a large amount of properties that we could sell. We could sell and we could reduce the amount of debt that could potentially be accrued by this sale. But not only, so they brought forward a plan for some properties to be sold. You know, Councilor DiBona said this is a living, breathing document.

Well, that's for sure because we just got a document yesterday that said, oh, the big moneymaker in the sale, hey, that's off the table. That just happened in the last 48 hours. So the big money, the big tipping sale that we could have made to kind of reduce some of this cost, that's gone. and instead they replaced it with the former public buildings building on 50 Seville Ave, which is right behind Quincy High School, which we'd be lucky to get a half a million dollars for. So we're trading in a lot that we could have sold for you know, five, six million dollars for something that we're gonna get half a million dollars for. So how does that get us to the point where it's defraying the cost of this of this project. I want to vote yes. I get your emails. You guys send emails, and you say, you've got to keep your personal opinions aside and do what's right for the citizens of Quincy.

My personal opinion here is we should buy this. What's doing right by Quincy is not buying it. For the financial well-being of the city of Quincy, you can laugh all you want. I also am a little, I'm a little, I think it's a little odd that we're sitting up here talking about, oh, we're going to get reelected. We're not going to get reelected. I don't think we should be up here talking about that at all. I don't ever recall in all the years, my dad's over here, he's been dragging me out to these city council meetings for years, anybody, Peter Colson. Dan Raimondi, Frank McCauley. I never recall any of them sitting up here talking about how they were going to get re-elected in 18 months. That is like a new low. I think we need to move away from that. I think that that's not someplace we really want to go.

So I'm hoping that the administration is listening, that they're thinking about other properties that we have in the city that we can sell, for the people who live in this neighborhood who are clearly asking for help and for the people that are out here. We're telling you we want to do this. Call the Mayor. Email the Mayor. We have 80 properties. Please, can we sell them? The Monroe Building is in Ward 1. It's right next door. I'm the Ward 1 Councilor. If the Mayor called me up, I'd say, yep, go ahead, sell it. He has not done that. Okay, we got three properties or two properties just beyond Dimmock Street next to the The Historical Society, which we bought, you know, let's sell them. We're not putting the, not the entertainment center, the performing arts center, let's sell it. It's in Ward 1, I'm the Ward 1 Councillor, fine, go ahead, do it. We have a marina down on Southern Ottery. Goodbye.

We don't need it. Those are the properties. We could buy this thing, and I would gladly vote. All of those properties are in Ward 1. And I don't think the people in Ward 1 would bat an eye to see any of those gone. and though the proceeds from that, just the proceeds from potentially the Monroe Building and the Marina are equal to about 22 and a half million dollars. Call him up. Email him. It's in his court. Let him sell him. We don't want him. We don't need him. We do want this, and you guys need this. So that's what we need to do. So you want to email me, that's great. That's what I'm going to say. That's just a very small amount of the portfolio that we have that we can sell. So email them. Call them. Have them do it. But just know that what I do know about this project doesn't come from the person sitting next to me. It comes from the person sitting next to him.

And she is giving me information about this. That's what I'm hearing. Thank you.

Quietly. Are you all set, Councilor Jacobs? I'm all set. Thank you. Councilor Ryan, you haven't said anything. I just want to give you a chance before I go to other people who have already spoken once.

Hang on, Madam Chair. So I also visited the site and it's absolutely a beautiful area. We toured a couple of the buildings and they were in very good shape. We toured some of the single-family homes, but we could only view the outside. They would not let us go inside. What I also did after that, too, was I examined the appraisal report. And all of the single-family homes had a market analysis with a designation of extraordinary assumptions. What this means is that no interior inspections were completed, exterior only. Now that means that if the building is in generally average condition, and the inside is considered to be in average condition.

The assessed value is a little different than what they had determined the market value to be, but it gave me a pretty good idea of what the properties the price that they could be sold for. It definitely would not be market value. It would be below market value as we all probably know. It just gave me a better idea of what the single family homes, what type of condition they were in on the outside, and the possible sale price. Thank you. Thank you, Councilor Ryan.

Anyone else? Hubley.

Thank you, Chair Riley. So my remarks earlier were not at all prepared. I just, it was a stream of consciousness. In fact, I'm going to watch it later just to see what the heck I said. But to that, one thing I did realize I omitted, which was part of my equation when evaluating this opportunity. and that is this. Well, first, what Councilor Ryan just did is a good example of looking at the floor and looking at the ceiling. We know there's gonna be a range. But anyway, what I omitted earlier, which I had hoped to, I thought I would remember to say, which is another dimension that I'm looking at this is from an opportunity cost. and what I mean by that is what are, if you take a look at the values this acquisition represents, meaning the things, I focus first on the things we intend to keep. what would it cost to otherwise reap that value?

What would it cost to get a updated, new and improved, larger public library? What would it cost to have childcare and educational services? I don't even know if you can put a price on the trees, frankly. what other mechanism by which would we be able to do the stormwater and flooding mitigation done in that area? I don't know that we have many other opportunities for doing those types of things. So there's the monetary value of the deal, and then there's the intrinsic value, and then you've got to think to yourself, is there even a possibility to do any of this stuff otherwise? So anyway, that's what I omitted. I just wanted to add that in. So thank you for indulging.

Thank you. Anyone else? I had a couple of comments that I wanted to, since listening to all of your comments, I did write a few notes. I too am not conducting myself up here. with the intention of getting re-elected. And I feel like it is becoming more of a campaign pitch than anything else. So we are doing the best job that we can for two years. So far it's proven to be rather exhausting, so I'm not sure what I want to do in two years. So I'm not worried about that, and I'm not worried about trading votes with my fellow councillors. One of the things we have to ask ourselves is if we decide to move forward with this, what as a community are we willing to give up? Are we willing to give up the Performing Arts Center? I haven't heard it. and the Presidential Library. Are we willing to give up our seawalls? Are we willing to give up any of a number of things that have been on the city's wish list? I haven't heard that.

The senior center is not, a new senior center was definitely something that was on the wish list when the community meeting was held. and we have not heard once that that is a proposed use. And I know I go to the Senior Center a lot because it's a great place and it's a real bargain. If you're over 60, you should definitely be a member there. and I have not heard that. Another thing I kept hearing was things about the past and consulting with people that have held these positions. We are making decisions for the future. We are making decisions for the future generation. and it's important. It is definitely a unique opportunity, but it is also an incredible financial burden that we will be assuming for the next generation. The other thing I'll say is this is not a ward matter. This is going to be a burden and a benefit to everybody in the city.

and equally I am finding, I am hearing, you know, equally 30% of the people wanna move forward with this no matter what the risk and cost. 30% think it's absolutely insane. And 30% are indifferent. They don't really care. And every single day, I'm getting pretty much the same feedback from people. One of the things that needs to happen in order to sell those single-family homes is the lots need to be subdivided. That takes a surveyor. they've got to be mapped out. I know that some of the properties have easements, some don't have parking, there's some things that need to be worked out. and then those documents need to be recorded at the Registry of Deeds. How long is that going to take? I don't know. How expensive is that going to be? I don't know. But it's going to take some time before we can even sell those properties. The marshes are essentially valueless. So my feeling is whoever ends up with this property is probably going to just give them to the city because they haven't been well maintained and they're kind of a little bit of a...

you know they're going to take some money to get in ecologically back online so I think whoever ends up with this property is going to probably gladly gift the marshes to the city and let us deal with it because it's one of the things the city's actually very good at. You know, the elder housing, we haven't talked about whether, are they gonna be rentals? are people going to be able to buy them? Again, I have a real estate background. I don't know too many seniors that want to sell their home to rent something. seniors still want to buy something and leave something to the next generation. There's also the option of something like a Linden Ponds where people pay a big upfront amount, usually from the proceeds of the sale of their home, and then they pay maintenance fees and they don't really own it, but they get all that money back when they pass away and leave it to their family, unless those monies needed to be used to pay their fees or something.

it's a little different type of legal thing and then it gets sold to the next person usually in line for that type of property. My feeling is the execution of this plan, we only are really hearing about the acquisition and the financing of the acquisition, and that part of the plan seems manageable. It really truly does. Provided, you know, everything lines up the way we hope, but it's a relatively short-term I just feel that the execution needs to be intentional and it needs to be time bound. The longer that this takes the more it's going to cost. That's the way it works. Hughes. When it comes to risk, the difference with a third party coming in and taking this is they are assuming the risk. If something goes sideways, if things take longer, to your point, Councilor Hubley, a ceiling and a floor,

The difference between the ceiling and floor is the risk, and that would be a risk that the city is taking on, that the taxpayers are taking on. The carrying costs, again, the longer it takes, the more the carrying costs are going to be. and as far as the uses that are proposed, elder housing, after school programs, community arts, Quincy College athletics and just to clear up People are saying move Quincy College there. That's not something I've heard entertained at all. But none of those entities are deep-pocketed entities. are going to be sort of nonprofits. I mean, so they're not going to have the money to be able to be the ones to carry this financial burden forward. The other thing I forgot to mention in the... in viewing the property is there is a single steam boiler in the campus that feeds five or six of the buildings.

There was asbestos in there. They've had to mitigate asbestos as they've done work over the years. They had to replace. they converted the heating system from oil to gas. Hopefully there's no underground oil tanks torn. That would be an environmental disaster. I know my real estate friends can appreciate that. but there is more than likely those steam pipes underneath are probably wrapped in asbestos. If the system was wrapped in asbestos, more than likely and given the age of when everything was done. As far as provisions, I've mentioned the deadlines, and that's the thing that gives me pause, is we really can't have this be an open-ended, we'll figure it out kind of plan. That is the notes that I had from all of the contributions and comments that you folks have all made. I do want to give us a little bit of a break before we have to go into our budget session. So I'd like to give everybody one more chance for a couple of minutes.

DiBona.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Sorry about that.

That's okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think Good hearing from everybody, even though we may not always agree. But here's what it really comes down to, basically. I don't know who you've been talking to, or you've been talking to, or you, I know, the people that I'm talking to that are coming to me, 9 out of 10 people want to do this. They want to do the E&C transaction. They think it's a benefit for the city. So how does it fall into the city council's realm to have control? you essentially have all control because there's an oversight committee and every three months you could have a continuation of what's going on with progress. You can have an oversight committee in September, December, March, and June, three months apart, to say, where are we on this plan? Where are we on... this breathing document.

How are we doing this? What's going on? And you have to also understand that there's going to be a lot more other votes that have to come through in front of this body. and you could say, well, how are we doing with this? So you go back to this product, this E&C acquisition, and you say, well, where are we on what was in the blueprint? and I think we're forgetting you're a city council. We can have them come in at any time and have a deliberation about how we're doing on the acquisition of this property. I mean, I think you're forgetting that aspect of it. That's I think why you got elected to represent and have the accountability of this. So I look at it very differently. Yeah, I've talked about former Councilors that I've served with. I just understand what they would be saying, what they would be thinking.

and listen, that's why you're up here and everybody's got different personalities, different way of looking at things, but I think, I think the council's missing the boat where you think it's just the mayor now has dictation and the administration, they're going to do what they want. Well, they have to come back to the council for a lot of these Situations and Acquisitions, and there's a lot of wetlands on that property. I mean, that has to come back here for use of this, and you're talking about use. I mean, if you give this to another developer, We may not be able to have any right. There could be a call by right with the Dover Amendment where they could come in and do whatever they want. I've seen this happen with the E&C two years ago, and it worked out very well, I'm gonna be honest with you.

ENC was in a financial bind, we knew this, and they decided to have people, migrants come in and live inside the facility. and it worked out very well. I talked to all the abutters of the property and they said it actually really worked out well and it was very highly run, really, positive. Someone who lives right out the doorway from it said it actually went really well. And we had a discussion about that at Beachwood Knowles School. and it was packed. It was packed with people with concerns and they did it without any authorization to the city. The same thing can happen now. They could do things without any input from any of us. none of you nine will be able to represent your constituency. They're gonna have the green light to do whatever they want. So we have an opportunity to do this, and you have time to think about this. over the next couple days over the weekend until we get to Monday. As you said, they are not going to extend it after June 15th.

Thank you for getting that information. I'm actually glad you did your due diligence. Rather than hearing a hearsay from anybody else, you did it on your own, which is great. but I think we're, I want the ball in our hands, the city council's hands, to have control of this. It's not gonna just be control outside so, It's just a thought, listening to everyone. I kind of get a realm of where everybody's at right now. and hopefully you come to the senses that we could get control. The City Council can actually get control of this property and have a lot of dictation on what we're gonna do with it. I think that's where I think some of you, I think it's called a leap of faith. You're gonna have to take a leap of faith that it's gonna come back to this body and we're gonna have some dictation on control of the property. And I think that's gonna happen. I really do. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else want to make a Council UN? I'll let you go, Matt.

Yuen. Hello. Thank you Madam Chairwoman. So I have heard from residents asking Besides these 22.5 million dollar bonds for UNC, what other bonds are down the road waiting for them? That's why I introduced an order to ask the city to provide two physical year bonding plan and big projections which need bond authorization. At city council meeting May 15th, and the order was approved 8-1 by the city councilors but the administration didn't provide this two physical year plan so for city councilors and the residents.

without seeing the full picture of these two fiscal year's capital improvement plan and just get those project give to them one by one, then how can you see if you can afford all the projects, or you have to choose the priorities? because the city already in the $1.8 billion debt and the property tax keep increase. People really worry about that. That's a real concern. why not put all those projects planned for these two fiscal years, put on the table, let resident and the city councilors discuss

If we can afford all of them, like issue bonds for all the projects, if we can, that's great. If not, then we really have to make a choice. So I think that's also for transparency and accountability. If you just cover up the projects one by one, that's no plan for the city of this size. Even couldn't provide a two physical year capital improvement plan. That's just unimaginable. usually the practice is a five years capital improvement plan. So, I observe like when,

All the presentations about ENC, about all those materials, administration can quickly put up with a beautiful presentation. and all the materials. That's because they want it. But for something they don't want it, like this two physical ear, of Capital Improvement Plan, they just refused to give any information. I don't know why. City doesn't want residents and city councilors to have a clear picture of this two fiscal year to be really responsible for taxpayers. Thank you, Councilor.

Anyone else? I'm going to go to Councilor Ash first, if you don't mind. Go ahead, Councilor Ash.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think first, something more general. You know, I don't want to be naive to the fact that People may reach out to each of us for different reasons, and they may have a preconceived notion on where we stand on something, which is why they feel more comfortable reaching out to each of us with their perspective if they think that we are more inclined to agree with them. So I think all of us, you know, I hope and my goal is certainly that everybody in the city really, but everybody specifically in my ward feels comfortable with whatever side of an issue to reach out to me and give me their opinion. but I think if we're all talking about constituents that we speak to and that reach out to us, be naive not to recognize that there may be people that don't give us their opinion because they don't think that we agree with them. and there may be constituents that reach out to other Councilors that may feel more inclined with them on a certain issue. So I think I would just at everybody keep that in mind.

I know that we know that in our head and that's how we're all governing, but I think for purposes of this conversation, that's important to keep in context. Jacobs, with respect to this idea of selling properties. I understand, Councilor Jacobs, you brought it up at the last meeting. I understand kind of the idea behind it. I don't know what we could put in place now, between now and Monday, June 15th, that is going to be some assurance that that could happen. I guess that's what I'm struggling with. Even if Mr. Walker says right now, we're going to agree to put X property on the market, and then the meeting ends and it goes on the market and it gets taken off the market or it goes on the market and nobody buys it or there's a P&S that falls through. I understand the idea. I don't see how it's necessarily a viable solution. option one way or another.

So I guess I would just say that. I think that that being said, all of the comments and communications that I've received are generally in favor of the purchase. But I guess I would just put those two things in context. I think it's important for us to put that on the record too. And just not that I don't appreciate the sentiments, but Logistically speaking, is there something that can happen between Thursday, June 11th at 8 o'clock and Monday, June 15th at 7 o'clock that is going to... to change what's in front of us. And I do think what's in front of us is in large part a benefit, but I do hear certainly the questions and concerns.

Ash. I'm really going to try to keep this to five more minutes because I'm going to need a break before we get into the budget hearings. So I know, Councilor McGee, if you could just try to be as efficient as possible, I will give you one more minute.

So just a few things. The Dover Amendment has been discussed, and that is something that I think that affects religious and educational institutions, and you still have to go through zoning. It doesn't, you don't have the same requirements, but ENC was a religious and educational institution, so, and it doesn't comply with current zoning laws. So we already have something that kind of fits into the Dover Amendment and people were happy with. So just putting that out there. The other thing that I've been thinking about because I think you know control is important with some of the things that the council would have to and so forth.

So I'm looking at other ways that no matter who owns the or another developer ways for us to kind of maintain control, which I hear is very important to people. So there's some possibility of zoning overlays. There's, what is it called? Planned Unit Developments, PUDs, that I'm looking at as well. So that would kind of add another layer of control that we could have, which I think would be important to think about. I think that we could do a lot with the property, and I think a lot of wonderful things could happen there.

some of the things will not bring in a lot of money, like libraries, and that's what government is, right? It's not a money-making scheme, but we also have to kind of make sure that we're were able to pay the bills. And so that's where I do think we are at a point, I've been looking at Financial Audits and S&P and Moody's. And I think we're past the point where we need to sort of start making some hard decisions where we can't just say, let's do this because we want it. We can choose to do it, and it would potentially be wonderful, but then something else has to give, so I am also in favor of Ash said it's hard to know, you know, to say that that would guarantee to happen, but I think if there was some way

of putting in a requirement that the city would put up for sale X number of properties assessed at X value we could make this happen but we have to be willing to make some harder choices and I think we're really there now because our taxes are going to go up anyway just because of where we are with our spending and debt. So to kind of limit that, we should make, and we do have a lot of other properties. So I'm not closing my door to this, the door to this at all. I'm very open. I'm just thinking of ways that we could make it work.

Thank you, Councilor McGee. And President Mahoney, I'm going to give you the last word because, as I said, I need to...

Hang on. Go ahead. I'll be quick. So I've been listening, and I've been hearing from everybody. I hear from people who want us to vote for this. I hear from people who don't want us to vote for this. But the most important thing that I think we all want is what's best for the city. And listen, my kids did their Christmas things at the Cove Center, and they went to EMC. Ash, and Campus Kinderhaus. I did the logo for Campus Kinderhaus. Eastern Nazarene has a special place in my heart. That area has a special place in my heart. However, when we're looking at this, we're looking at the debt. And I understand what Councilor Ash was saying, In 48 hours, we took off the Messina property. Why? Because it's in $6.8 million worth of debt. Even if you sell it, you're going to have to pay off that debt for the diff. We haven't got the information for the DIF. There's a strategy for the downtown. I know you've all heard it. It's not supposed to cost you a dime. It's not supposed to cost you a dime. But they can't prove that it's working that way, right? And we've been asking for the math to back it up. No math's coming from City Hall. I haven't seen it. When I do talk to them, they tell me it's the consultant.

The consultant tells us we just do the forecasting. So there's a gap there, too. But what I will say is that I have been in touch, and I have said it the last time, and I agree. I agree with my fellow counselors. There are properties we can sell. They took off the Messina, and they put on Seville. Seville property, 50 Seville is 411,000. If you get 700, that's going to be a lot for it. It's not making up much of a difference. I think we need to see more of that. and I do think it should be the Monroe Building and potentially the Marina because what I can tell you about those two things is there is no debt associated with those. That was COVID money that bought those buildings, and they're in the downtown, and they're not backed up to a neighborhood, especially the Monroe Building, and developers would want that. and it would make sense to do it. And we could do that, and when you do that, we can buy E&Z. But if you don't do that, we can't. And we can put that into the restrictions. And secondly, I'm just going to say this. While I was on the council, before I got on the council, Hospital Hill had a reverter on it.

The promise was that it was going to be 55 and older. The developer was Fox Rock. They got the reverter off, and they were going to come down and do something in the Ross Parkway. The promise to that neighborhood was it was going to be 55 and older. The control was in our hands, and we picked the developer. We released the reverter. and you know what happened? It didn't happen to be 55 and older, it's 495 units. That's not what that neighborhood was promised. The other thing that happened was that was a PUD. So that very thing that they gave up because they said to the neighborhood, don't worry, we've got your back. We're going to have this happen. Same administration. Same situation. And guess what? They didn't have their back. You can ask anybody up in Hospital Hill. They did not like what happened up there. And it could happen in E&C if we're not careful. and that's all I'm saying. We have not had a track record that tells us that this administration can actually pull off the things they say they're gonna pull off. Yes, we can look at the downtown and we can say it's great,

but we can't prove that we can pay off the diff. I believe, potentially, all of the taxpayers are paying for the very thing that we were told wouldn't cost us anything. So I'm trying to really take a look at these things and really understand them so that when I look you in your eyes, I can say, you can afford to live here and I know your neighborhood's not gonna get destroyed for something. But if you want us to do this, and I do think rather than call us, we know. I think you need to call the administration and let them know that the Monroe building that was bought with COVID money needs to be sold to a developer in the downtown that can bring in more money for the downtown. and guess what? It will allow us to buy ENC. I throw in the Marina, too, because the Marina is also bought by COVID money. And as far as I know, that's not taking care of the whole city. And it's backed up to, it's behind Cork and Meineke. It's not a very beautiful view there. But you know what? We are not in the business of being realtors. We're a city that's supposed to be taking care of people.

And this is a neighborhood that we should be able to do, but not with $1.8 billion worth of debt. We're making national news for the wrong reasons. We're making national news because of your neighborhood. Bloomberg is talking about ENC and the debt-ridden South Shore community called Quincy. So that is stuff that we really have to take seriously, because S&P and Moody's have downgraded us. And if we do not do this properly, they will downgrade us again, and then we'll be in further trouble. the second highest debt in our operating budget, the second highest expense in our operating budget is debt. Schools are first, debt is second. Over $90 million being paid out of that operating budget right now for debt. So when people say save our services, I would love to be able to do that, but eventually we won't be able to because debt is going to eat up our operating budget.

And if we do this without protecting ourselves, then we will only be hurting ourselves in the long run. So please. If we want to do this call, how many times have I asked you to do that? At least three times. Now it's four. And we could have it in writing. and we would have to sell it and it would be sold to a developer, I'm positive of it, and it would bring the money that we need in. It would be much more than $700,000. So thank you very much for everybody coming out. I really do appreciate your time and sharing it with us tonight. We do hear you, and we wanna do what's right, but if we can't get to that deal, I'm sorry, we will put a PUD on it so they'll be up here in front of us, whoever's developing in that area. We'll either be the city or a developer, but they will be up at the council. and what you want up at this council are people who are gonna ask those questions to make sure we are saving your neighborhood. Because ask anybody at Hospital Hill and they would tell you they would have liked a voice. They came up here and they begged us and we couldn't do anything.

because we gave that away. We gave that right away.

Thank you. Thank you, President Mahoney. I'm going to adjourn this meeting so we can take five minutes before we move into our budget hearing. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for watching!

Thank you for watching.

.

.

.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for watching.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for watching!

Thank you for watching!

Thank you for watching.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for watching.

Thank you.

Thank you for watching.

Thank you for watching!

.

.

.

Good evening. I'd like to call to order the Finance Committee meeting for our budget hearings this evening. We've already read the open meeting law, so Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Councilor Ash. Councilor DiBona. Hubley, Jacobs, Mahoney, McKee, Ryan, Yuan, Riley.

Thank you, Madam. First up we have Mr. Conlin from Inspectional Services. Welcome. His budget can be found on page 56 of the budget book for those following along. Take it away.

Good evening, everyone. First of all, like I said, I sent you some important information yesterday. I have three part-time employees that I want to include, bringing the total to 27.

Okay, thank you.

I'd just like to give you a brief overview of what my department does.

Mr. Conlon, I think the mic is not meant for tall people, so you're going to have to try to pull it up a little bit more. so that we can hear you. Thank you.

ISD is comprised of several smaller departments including building, plumbing and gas, wiring, zoning board of appeals, Conservation Commission, Code Enforcement, for the Ways and Measures. ISD is a revenue generating department. We process over 5,400 applications each year, generating over $3.7 million in revenue. Our annual operating budget is approximately $2.4 million. We have a staff of 27 employees who work closely together to achieve our mission to provide helpful, fair, and consistent services to our citizens. As ISD's workload has increased over the years, our staff has remained relatively the same. We have learned to become much more efficient by acquiring high-speed scanning equipment, online programming software, and mostly by sharing the load among the staff when necessary. We issued over 2,200 building permits for large and small construction projects throughout the city. Each permit application was reviewed to ensure that those proper structural elements, sprinkler and fire alarm systems, exits, handicap facilities, emergency lighting,

, Light and Ventilation, and Energy Compliance. ISD performed over 15,000 inspections during the construction process to ensure new construction or other buildings are safe for people to occupy. Each of our inspectors provides safety inspections to over 1,500 existing buildings including schools, daycares, restaurants, and bars, lodging houses, and multi-family residential buildings. Our department answered over 3,000 calls and emails from councilors, citizens, regarding complaints of noise, overgrowth, blighted properties, and abandoned vehicles, to name a few. Our clerks have digitized over 30,000 building documents over the past five years, making the files available online for free for our citizens. Our archival record files and archive plans are being systematically digitized now. This frees up valuable space in the building department. We issued over 1,000 zoning and building code notices of violations last year.

We processed over 150 internal appeals for the tickets and court cases per year. Our zoning clerk prepares about 60 zoning cases a year. The Conservation Commission decided about 30 cases. We offer a free walk-in zoning clinic for our citizens every Thursday afternoon. However, citizens are welcome to stop anytime. our Weights and Measures Department certified over 600 supermarket scales, taxi and gas station meters, as well as oil truck meters to show it's our citizens are paying the fair and accurate prices. The compliance officer ensures that all workers and public projects throughout the city are being paid the prevailing wage according to city contracts, as well as ensuring the workers have the proper qualifications for the work being performed, the proper prejudice to journeyman ratios are being applied, have the duties including inspecting all construction sites, excuse me, to ensure proper barricades, pedestrians are installed, erosion controls in place, sanitary facilities are installed, and there's water on site for dust control. And with that, I'd be happy to take any questions.

Thank you. Questions from my fellow Councilors? Turn that down a little bit.

Ryan. Thank you to you, Madam Chair. Mr. Conlon, thank you for coming tonight. I was listening to your speech and you had mentioned something about are going on in your department. Could you expound upon that a little?

We have high speed scanners downstairs and two of the clerks are digitizing all the older files so anybody can look at Anything online at some point. Right now, the way our software is set up, you can look at a building parameter, but the attachments you can't see. So they're taking all those attachments out of every file and scanning them.

All right, that's great. And when is this project going to be completed?

Probably never, because we've got thousands of them.

Hey, I just thought I'd ask. Yes, that's true, that's true. Well, I'm glad to see that things are moving forward in inspectional services. Thank you.

Questions?

Council UN.

is next.

Yes, Councilor Yuan. Thank you. Hello. I have several questions from residents. So it's actually help us understand the roles of each Staffs. So the first question is clerical staff. The budget appears to include six clerical or administrative positions. I would be interested in understanding the workload and the responsibilities that support this staffing level. As more applications, records, and surveys move online, I'm curious how the department's administrative needs have changed over time, and whether the current staffing structure remains the most for this efficient approach. It also be helpful to understand how this compares to similar sized cities and towns.

Sorry, I can't.

Do you think we have too many clerks?

Yeah. The budget appears to include six clerical and administrative positions. So the resident interested in understanding the workload and the responsibilities that support this staffing level.

We have two clerks downstairs doing the digitizing. One of them is also the keeper of records. We have the clerks upstairs to help the public when they come in, to answer the phone calls, to reply to emails. We also have a clerk for the conservation, Conservation, part-time, and she also does plumbing, and the other clerk does the electrical permits. They do all the data entry for the electrical inspectors, and the plumbing clerk does all the data entry for the plumbers. So all the inspections are logged every day by the clerks. And they answer questions during the day.

because I don't quite understand how your department is operated, so this question just from resident, because resident want to understand, like, how their tax money being paid, right? How the, when they see, oh, why this department need six clerical or administrative positions, so they ask what's their role if it's,

So two are digitizing, one is for plumbing, one is for electric, and the other two are just for day-to-day operations of the department.

Okay. So he asked, it would also be helpful to understand how this compares to similarly sized cities and towns. I didn't compare so.

and Councilor Yuan, could we direct it to a specific budget?

Is it just the clerks that you're?

Yeah, that's like a principle. Clerk, Senior Clerk, Clerk Typist, Board Clerk, Administrations Secretary, there are six, another secretary, so total six

If I could just take some privilege here. As a real estate agent, I spend a lot of time dealing with inspectional services. I'm impressed with all of the records that are online. I think we've had the same number of building inspectors for the 35 years I've lived in Quincy. So for this constituent, I understand you're asking the question, but they can go down there and see what they're doing. I personally deal with inspectional services a lot and it's a pretty light staff. for all of the work that they're doing. And I'm saying that from my own personal experience, so.

I understand. I appreciate your answer because the residents are watching the QATV so they can hear the answers. and this question is not just from one resident, so I think help resident to understand how that part work. The second question is, they ask the inspectors the salaries. Why are the chief wire inspector, assistant wire inspector, chief plumber, and the Plumbing Gas City Inspector and the Weights and Measures Inspector paid significantly more than similar positions in other Massachusetts communities. If there is a good reason, I would like to understand what additional duties and responsibilities justify those salaries.

I don't know what other cities and towns makes. I know weights and measures in most cities and towns is two people. Boston has a whole board to do weights and measures. We have a one-man show who does his own clerical, his own data entry. He does most of the oil trucks on the South Shore. He does a lot more than some other departments with more people. For instance, Brockton is similar in size, but they have two inspectors.

Okay, so that resident compare the Weymouth, Braintree, Norwood, and Lowell. Lowell. I'm just asking.

Oh, that's fine. A lot of the cities and towns have split responsibilities. Some cities and towns The inspectors do their own plans. For instance, Cambridge, we just have separate staff for it here. It seems to be a lot more efficient. And the chief inspector in each case oversees the other people in his department.

Okay. Another question is about a compliance officer. Question is what exactly are the responsibilities of the compliance officer position? does the role require any specialized certifications, licenses, or qualifications? How does it differ from the duties already performed by inspectors or other department staff?

The compliance officer is in charge of, first of all, she takes payroll from any public jobs. She checks the payroll to make sure they have the right amount of journeymen, master plumbers. Apprentices. A lot of people will put all apprentices in rather than pay the higher rate for the journeyman and whatnot. So the public job, she does that. She's done that. They just did the windows here, the police station. They're doing the school now. She has a lot of responsibilities for the public buildings. And she's not doing that. She inspects. all the sites to make sure that they've got rodent control, they've got dust control, they've got water on site. difficult sanitary facilities, and any demolition projects she was out on numerous times. You check the rat traps, you check everything. And she's pretty busy.

So does this role require any specialized certifications, licenses, or qualifications? No. No, okay. But inspectors need a certifications license. So this role is different from inspectors. And ready. Okay, the item 512102, local building inspector, how many people in that line item?

We have four now. We've been trying for quite a while to get a fifth one, but they've changed the qualifications and the new addition of the building code, and we're trying to find a good fit for the city. We want someone who's going to come here and stay here, so that position's been open for almost a year.

You have four people.

We have four, but we're trying to get the fifth one.

You try to get the fifth one. That's what, oh, okay. Because I did see the fiscal year 2026, year to date actual spending is, 344,915, so that means you have one position, not a field.

We have one field, yes.

I suggest because now the city is in the $1.6 billion debt and taxpayers have a huge burden and I would suggest City now frees any new hire, especially the unfilled position, so we can at least give give taxpayer a little bit break.

Well, it wouldn't be a new hire. He'd be replacing someone who left. It would not be a new hire. We lost an inspector. We're just replacing that inspector.

I know you. So, I mean, freeze all the unfilled position, even it's already... supported by previous budget. So I'm wondering if we can...

I mean, with all the building going on, especially downtown, we really need another inspector. If someone's out sick on vacation, we just have one inspector off for a bit... for a back operation. We really have no backup.

Councilor Yuan, we did, I think we talked last night that we can't freeze positions. If you want to make a motion to cut something, then go ahead and put forth a motion.

Okay, so... I already speak to my concern. I really think about taxpayers. So because if the city in such a huge debt, City really need to streamline the operation and make it more efficient. This position hasn't been filled in fiscal year 2025 and 2026. So I would like to make a card of this item to... Could you put in the form of a motion, please? Yeah, I would like to make a motion to cut this item nine to... 5-1-2-1-0-2? 5-1-2-1-0-2. Two, four, two, okay. Two, no.

to 400,000.

To 400,000?

Yeah.

Okay, we have a motion to reduce line item 512.102 to $400,000. We'll take a roll call. Oh, I'm sorry, on the motion. My apologies. Councilor Ash, did you want to speak on that one or no? Yes, just briefly.

I'll just approach it with a ward Councillor's hat. A lot of the joyful minutia that I have the pleasure of of dealing with and helping people with is with the help of the ISD office, of course. It's the overgrown lawns. it's the potential for illegal apartments, it's the illegal housing task force, it's the site control and citations, and everybody running out to check on anything under the sun that could potentially be happening with the property. I think I got in my car after work the other day and when your car suggests where you're going or suggests who to call, I think my car suggests that I call Mike Tenney. So I think that's how often we talk. I won't be supporting a cut.

I think that with respect to the taxpayers in the city, they enjoy good services, and certainly the ISD is an extension of that service. So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else on the motion? Councilor DiBona?

Thank you, Madam Chair. I too, prior to Rob Conlon being in there, Jay Duca, this is a particular department that I'm in contact with quite a bit. At times it could be quiet, but it's a very important, vital, in this position with our city growing, we want to make sure that we provide these services to the people of the city. I don't want to get behind on anything, especially in this particular department. I would not be supporting this at all. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilor DiBona, Councilor McGee. So I just want to thank you for all of your help for me as well. I too, I think, agree with this cut because given the debt and everything that we're talking about, I do think we really need to cut spending as well as raising revenues, and this is an open position. It sounds like it's been open for a couple years, so we wouldn't be cutting someone who currently exists, so I think If we've been managing okay so far, I'm going to support this. Thank you, Councilor McKee.

Councilor Hubley, I think you had your hand up.

Yes. Thank you, Chair Riley. I would say this department is probably among the few departments that I interact with the most with. When you have a fairly rapidly growing population, a fairly rapidly evolving even multi-family, single-family population. One of the common things I get called for, at least in Ward 3, is, and I think you really have to be a ward Councillor to have an appreciation for the frequency at which you call upon inspectional services. It's possible as a large council you don't interact as much. I think it's very likely you don't interact as much. Could be wrong. A lot of issues with people parking on front lawns, people paving over front lawns, people over paving backyards.

and then with sort of the density increasing and making sure that things are wired properly and proper inspections and we're not rushing through inspections I don't know that in a growth period this is where you make this type of efficiency. And so if we were sort of leveling off in terms of population, I'd feel more comfortable with it, but I would love to hear more dialogue from my colleagues.

Thank you. Anyone on this side?

Councilor Ryan? For you, Madam Chair. I have in my ward, ward four, I have like six or seven projects that are gonna be starting very over the summer. and one of them is an apartment building up on Quarry Street. Another one is seven town homes. I've got 1,600. Crown Colony Drive, I have quite a few projects that are going to be starting all at once. And while I would love to cut salaries and we try to balance the budget or at least reduce it, I cannot support this cut.

Thank you, Councilor Ryan. And I would definitely not support this. Anyone who's dealt with inspectional services has done a home improvement project. I don't know how you're doing it with four people. I really don't. So can we take a roll call vote on this, please?

Councilor Ash. No. Councilor DiBona. No. Councilor Hubley.

No.

Jacobs, Councilor Mahoney, Councilor McKee, Councilor Ryan, Councilor Yuan, Chairman Riley.

No. Motion passes. Okay, that motion failed, so we will move on. Did anyone else have any other questions? One sec, I'll get Councilor McKee. Councilor McKee.

I'm wondering what the contractual services line is used for?

Right now, more than I have. contracted the, we have up codes, which is an interpretive version of the building code. It's online. That's a couple, $2,000 a year. We use Granica software to track all the short-term rentals. that's $22,000 a year. The OpenGov software is $36,000 a year and all of these are going up. We spent, we paid for the GIS to use the different maps that went out. That was $3,000. Currently it's under the travel budget, but it should have been moved to contracted. We did a number of board ups. That ran almost $20,000. The little bit that's left in the budget we're going to use to tear down a house shortly. That's been a problem and a thorn in the side for quite a few years.

We've deemed it unsafe and dangerous, and we're going to pay for that and lean the house. That's all coming out of contract. and the Treasurer's Office has very nicely offered to split the cost of the demolition with me or I'd be over budget on that.

Thank you. And then I just have a couple questions. Looking at the year-on-year budget for A few positions. It looks like there's high year-on-year increases, so I just hope you could speak to that. Inspector of Buildings is a 16.45% year-on-year increase.

That's all contractual to the unions. I have no control over that. I think he got longevity. He got a 3% bump. They gave him another 3% bump, and he got an upgrade. But that's all through the union. That's nothing to do with me.

And then is that also true for the assistant wire inspector for about 12% year-on-year increase?

That's one full-time and one part-time. It's not really much of an increase, actually.

OK.

and so the other, sorry, the previous inspector of buildings had two, 3% increases and a pay bump, was that what you said?

The longevity, I think it is. The longevity.

The longevity, okay.

and I think they also just got a retro check.

Sorry, what?

I think they got a retro check through the union, so once again, it's all union, I'm not sure.

Oh, okay. and then the board clerk slash CBA is like eight and a half percent year on year.

She went from. 61 to 64, that's the 3% contraction for the union.

I'm looking for, oh, okay. Well, I guess I don't know. I'm looking, maybe I missed, looked at the wrong line. Oh, in the, I think I'm looking at the year-on-year report. This one. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. It is, it is, but that seems reasonable. Okay. Anyone else?

Councilor Mahoney? Councilor Mahoney? President Mahoney.

Hi, how are you? So I just have a couple of quick questions. I know that your department actually brings in permit money. So could you tell me in the last five years how much permits that we've been able to generate from the revenues from that? I'm sorry, permit revenues, how much, over the last five years, how much permit revenues compared to personal costs?

I wouldn't know.

So you don't have an understanding of how much the permits, the permit revenues would be?

This is my assistant, Mr. Dahl.

Hey, how are you doing? Charlie Dahl. Yep. Hi, Charlie. So, fiscal year 2026... We took in 3.7 million, 2025, about 4.2, 2024, 3.7, 2023, 3.1, 2022, 4.8, 2021, 2.9. for the permit fees that we take in. Operational costs, I'm not sure. I wasn't here for that, but those are the numbers we calculated for the past five years.

Your operational costs is your budget, so.

I understand that, but I'm answering your question directly.

You answered my question. That's perfect. Thank you very much. Thank you. and then also I think we were just talking about the contractual line 530303 is $100,000. What gets spent out of that line item again?

The software, the upcodes, the Granica software, the OpenGov is...

So when I look back at that, in 21, you spent 75. I don't know what your budget was in 21, but you spent 75. 22, you spent 66. 23, you spent 81. 24, you spent 89. Let's see, 25, you spent 62, and you're currently at 65. So you have not been historically spending that, so I'm gonna make a cut in that line item of $30,000, which should leave you enough

I think we've spent the entire hundred this year already, though.

No, unless you have anything, Madam Auditor, could you take a look at it?

Well, there's an invoice that went in yesterday, I think, for $34,000.

So currently, in fiscal year 26, $65,248.79 has been spent. However, there is an encumbrance there. for $17,350. So as of right now, there's $17,401.21. We do have a few more weeks left of the fiscal year, and if the department has any outstanding bills that are going to be dated prior to June 30th, they will have to do another encumbrance from that $17,000.

So you paid, yesterday you put in a bill. What was the bill for?

17,000. 17,000. Well, the Treasurer's Office was willing to split it with me, so I guess she has. Yeah, 17,000.

So again, I understand that we have until the end of the year, but I've also been told by many departments that there's been pretty much a hold on what's being spent. and over the course, but I'd say then $10,000. I'm just going to cut it $10,000 because I know that you're going to be doing year-end transfers. If you need it, we'll get it to you, but $10,000 for next year. We're talking about next year, not this year.

Okay, so is that in the form of a motion? It's a form of a motion, yeah. 530303, contracted line, we're going to reduce that $10,000 to $90,000?

Yep.

Okay, any discussion on that motion? Hubley.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Usually before I cast a vote, I want to check with the department head on how they feel about that change. So if you have any thoughts on it, I want to give you an opportunity.

We could have easily spent it, but I mean, we can probably absorb it through breakage also.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Any other discussion? Take a roll call. Oh, sorry, Councilor Lash, sorry.

Director Conlon, I know we spoke last week about the house on North Payne Street that is, you know, I think now eight, nine years after the fire being boarded up. I know your department has been working very closely with the treasurer's office. I believe the property may be in Ward 5, Councilor McKee, but I understand how expensive it is to finally get that property torn down. Now, not nearly as expensive when you take into consideration the health risks that it's posed to the neighborhood or the back taxes that the family owes. I can foresee these issues potentially They're becoming more of these issues in the future, so I'll just take that into consideration with respect to this cut. Thank you.

Okay. In that house, we had boarded, which we paid for and leaned the house. We're having it torn down, which we paid for. And between the board up and the next day, they cut a hole for it and moved it back in. So we had to re-board it. Those bills haven't come in yet.

any further discussion? Councilor DiBona?

Thank you, Madam Chair. That particular property from Dan Mitten to Maggie McGee and Ward 5, I've gotten correspondence, and thank you for all your help on that. Just the blights over the years. I mean, we can talk about... you know people who own the property that don't live in the state and it's just it it's really tough on the neighbors in that particular neighborhood to try to get even to clean up or even permission to come onto that property. I've had times where next door neighbors were going out cutting lawns with permission and it could take years just trying to get to the people that own the house that is kind of aired down to the the sons or daughters, they live in other states. It's a disaster. I've dealt with it in every ward. So I'm not gonna be up to do this. It's something that we need to do. You're gonna deal with it in every ward.

that you'll get a blight property that you have almost zero jurisdiction unless you get permission to actually walk onto the ground. So it's been an issue I've dealt with every single year on here and I thank you. as well as Jay Duca previously to you that we've tried to take care of the best we possibly can with tickets and all these other things. McGee, I'm still hearing about that particular property, so I know I've handed it off to Councilor McGee here. I've had office hours and had those folks that live next door come in and talk to me about it so it's still ongoing and it's only so much that he can actually do legally at times so we're working on that property and I know for the fact every year in every single ward I've dealt with this. So I won't be supporting this cut. Thank you.

Thank you. Any further discussion? Take a roll call vote.

Councilor Ash. DiBona, Hubley, Jacobs, Mahoney, McKee, Ryan, Yuan, and Riley.

Yes. Motion passed. Okay. Any further discussion on this budget? Did anyone else have anything else? Did you have further discussion on this budget, Councilor Yuan? Okay.

Okay. Go ahead.

Actually I have more questions from residents. So one question is asking the code enforcement officer, Is this one position or multiple positions?

One position.

One position. Does it require certifications or special training?

No, just his experience.

Just the experience. Okay. And how is it different from an inspector?

He doesn't have to be certified. The certification costs quite a bit of money just for the books, the training. It takes some of the inspectors a couple of years to pass it. Some of them are very adept and pass it fairly shortly. But the code enforcement officer doesn't have to be certified.

and the follow-up question is the salary seems high compared to similar positions in other communities. and the resident like to understand how it was determined.

I worked up a number of other communities and not only is it pretty similar, a lot of the other communities have four, five, six different code enforcement officers. We just have the one and he does a fantastic job. He's extremely busy.

Is that a union position? The whole city, just the one? Is that a union position?

We're talking the compliance office? The code enforcement? Code enforcement, yes. Is that the one you're talking about, right? It is a union position.

. Okay. Another question is about the legal processor. So in your department webpage, there is a legal processor, but in the budget, it's

He's not in the budget. He's paid through fines under Mass General Law 148A, Section 5.

So he is paid from where?

Paid through the building fines, the tickets and whatnot that we write.

The building?

Fines.

Oh, building fines.

Under the National General Law, those fines have to go back to the building department for enforcement. and the plus he takes our cases to court. He was in Brockton Housing Court every other week. I think we've got 27 open cases, right? 27 cases pending being filed and 14 in court. So he's a pretty busy character. He monitors all the short-term rentals. He's the one who uses the Granica software. I think we have 300 properties that he's monitoring right now to make sure they don't turn into short-term rentals.

That's just question from residential water. No, no, that's fine.

Yeah, that's what we're here for.

Because it's not appear on the budget book, so. And another question, what does premium pay mean in the budget? I don't know, I've asked that question myself.

Mr. Walker? I see it in every budget line.

I've looked it up, I don't know what it is.

Yes. I think you get up to 15 years to get a stipend.

So if a department head or an administrative person who is not in the union after their 10th year of service they get a stipend, a weekly stipend of $15 a week that totals $780 a year.

What do they do with all that money? Buy dog food. Okay, is there any further discussion on this budget?

Another question is about the plan examiner. Is this a union position or appointed?

Oh, it's appointed.

It's appointed?

Yes.

The question is, the plan examiner position appears to be getting a fairly large increase in fiscal year 2027 after no race in fiscal year 2025 and 2026. Hicks. what has changed since then?

That was a specific request I made of the mayor to up his salary. He was thinking of moving on or finding a different city or town. He does a lot more than just examine the plans. He said outreach to the community, He's bilingual, so we can speak to a lot of the people in the Asian community. He's the one who updates all our software. He keeps track of, he's the only point person we have between us and OpenGov, so when the system goes down, we're either are dead in the water or we have Allen fixed. So he's got a lot more responsibilities than just examining the plans. That's the reason for the increase.

Does the position require certifications or specialized training?

It does require certification. It is certified.

Certified for?

It's a certified building official, yes.

Certified building examiner?

he's just like all the inspectors, he's certified.

Oh, okay. That's it, thank you. Okay, any further discussion on this? DiBona.

I'd just like to make a motion to approve as amended.

Okay. Councilor Jacobs, did you have anything else?

Yeah, I just wanted to ask about further question about the code enforcement officer. You know, I'm looking at the look back here. You know, in 2021, it was 61,643. In 2022, 63,9. 2023, 70,699. Then in 2024, We have quite a substantial increase there. I know it's a union position, but I was wondering if you could speak more to what happened there. And then in 2025, it goes up you know, it goes up another $10,000. And then now it's dropped back down to, you had a date so far where we spent $70,455. I don't know if they get paid every other week or every week, but they're not going to get to $99,814

You're correct, the last person was at top pay and there was some litigation that went on. The new guy starts at the entry level position, so that could be cut.

Okay, so the person that's there right now, who's doing a great job, can't sing their praises enough. What is, you know, I mean, right now they've been paid $70,455. What can we actually expect to... pay that person by the end of this fiscal year, which is in three and a half weeks?

I think it's pay 73 and change. I'm not sure. But if that were to be cut $20,000, there'd still be enough in there to pay him.

Is there any motion on that?

Hold on. Yeah, let's cut. I'd like to make a motion to cut that to 75%. I'd like to, yeah, line item, sorry, line item 512122, Code Enforcement Officer, from 99,814 to 75,000.

OK, we have a motion. Madam Auditor, did you have something you wanted to add on this item?

Sorry.

Yes, I did.

Hang on one second. Just for informational purposes, the reason why you see the jump in fiscal year 2025, I believe that the person that was the code enforcement officer retired. So at the time, what was happening is prior to the retirement, a new person came on, and I'm assuming he mentored that person for the time, so that's why you're seeing that little bump. You're welcome.

Okay, so we have a motion.

Any discussion on the motion?

Oh, the motions, oh, okay. Okay, so Councilor DiBona has a motion to approve as amended prior to this motion. So I think we have to take a roll call vote on that before we can entertain the cut that's here, which certainly seems reasonable. Is there any discussion on the motion to approve this as amended with just the one cut? Okay, we'll take a roll call vote on that. Councilor Ash?

No.

Councilor DiBona?

Yes.

Councilor Hubley? No. Councilor Jacobs? No. Councilor Mahoney? No. Councilor McKee? No. Councilor Ryan? No. No.

Okay. So now we have the motion from Councilor Jacobs to cut line item 512.122. Any discussion on that motion? Ash, I still have you on.

Councilor Jacobs, the cut was from the 99,814 to 75,000. Is that the cut you're proposing? Director Conlon, what does that individual make right now per year? Pardon? What does the code enforcement officer make right now as a salary? $73,200, I think. And that's for, is that contracted for next year or? I think that's exactly what it is.

Hi, Sergeant Charlie Dorn again. For next year, I believe it's going to be something between 74 and 75 with the new 3% raise.

Okay.

Hang on a second, Councilor Jacobs. Are you all set? Councilor Ashton, do you mind if I?

Sorry, so the 73 and some change doesn't include the 3% increase from the sweep.

So it's going to be the exact number, I'm not sure, but I know it's between 74 and 75. So 75, I think that would be sufficient. You think it would be sufficient?

It will be OK. OK. So it is OK. Sorry. Sorry.

So any further discussion on that motion? You all set? Hang on a second.

I guess I'd just be at home looking for a raise if I was this person.

Well, as I understand it, the higher salary was because there was a retiree he had maxed out. Correct. Right. And this is somebody new. does seem like we're taking money that's going to just sit on the table because he's not going to make that kind of money. So if there's no further discussion.

No, I guess I would say I'm surprised that the position isn't valued at what it is in the proposed, that's all. because I think that individual works very hard. But that being said, if Director Conlon says that this is... Councilor Jacobs, please. Yes, no, I've definitely understood. But if Director Conlon says that that's what this individual, this position is contracted for next year.

He's practically told us we can cut it, so if there's no further discussion, I'd like to take a roll call vote on that. Is that okay? Okay.

Councilor Ash. Yes. Councilor DiBona. Yes. Councilor Hubley. Yes. Councilor Jacobs. Yes. Councilor Mahoney. Yes. Yes. Councilor McKee? Yes. Councilor Ryan? Yes. Councilor Yuan? Yes.

Chairman Riley? Yes. OK. So is there any further discussion, or would you DiBona has made a motion to approve as amended, approved with the two amendments that we've approved so far. Well, we're going to have to entertain, we're going to have to take another roll call vote, but I'll let you speak, Councilor Yuan. I have one more comment.

Well, we have to know what the cut is. Yeah, so I just have a question. What's the current salary of a plan examiner?

Pardon me?

What's the current salary of a plan examiner?

and 90,000.

90,000?

Yes.

So in your budget, 105,000?

Yes.

so I would like to cut 10,000.

I would hate to lose the plans examiner. He does an awful lot more than just examine the plans. His job has three or four different permutations to it now that he didn't have before. He does all our stuff. At $90,000, I might lose Alan.

Yeah, I keep $90,000, but you budget $105,000.

That's right. When he was looking at other jobs in different communities, I asked the mayor if I could increase his salary. And the mayor agreed to allow me to increase his salary so I could keep him here in Quincy. He's a young man. He's very... Farrell, and he gets along with people. He's an asset to our department, and he does an awful lot besides plans.

It was that little boy. I understand, because I thought it's like that code enforcement. You budget more than the salary. But if you already gave him that raise, one or five, I'm okay with that.

Okay, so we have a motion to approve this budget as amended.

Ash, DiBona, Hubley, Jacobs, Mahoney, McKee, Ryan, Yuan, Sherman, Riley.

Thank you, Mr. Conlon. Thank you very much. Okay, next up we have Mr. Glavin from Information Technology, page 43 in the budget book.

Good evening, Councillors. I sent you all a copy of my org chart along with a brief overview. Currently in IT, we have 15 full-time positions. They're all union. as well as myself, and we provide technology support for police, fire, city departments, and city schools. There's one open position, the telephone operator, which opened up this year. were looking at that role to see what better fits the department. We might try to change it a little bit. And as well as our communications director was on a medical leave for half the year, so you'll see breakages in those lines. There's two shared IT vehicles utilized by our PC techs and network administrators. The IT department currently supports multiple network environments, applications, and users across approximately 20 schools and 46 city buildings and locations throughout the city.

We have more than a thousand daily end users that require support for computers, printers, munis, phones, cell phones, and website requests. We average about 20 to 50 requests per day on the help desk. We have a rotating 24 by 7 on-call support, and that's four of our senior positions that rotate weekly. Mainly we get call from police and fire after hours for emergencies. they pretty much get called every week and every weekend, whether it's a firehouse or a police problem with their software. the IT print shop we also manage by two people and they handle all the printing and mailing operations for the city. They're also responsible for citywide mailings. , Resident Notification, Utility Bills, Excise Tax Bills, Real Estate Bills, Assessor Correspondence, Census Mail-ins and School Communications.

You will notice we did experience increase over time this year mainly because of our two positions that are open or one was on a leave after our projects from UNIS for system changes and upgrades. as well as the large scale transition and relocation into the public safety building. If you have any questions for me on the budget.

Any questions? Ryan. Thank you for coming here tonight. With regards to your budget, I'm taking a look at your line item 510189. That's for clothing.

Yep.

I see that it's increased from 500 to 4,800 for 2027. Can you explain the increase?

Yes. There was only one person get a clothing allowance, but with the new negotiations, there's probably seven people that get it now. and just because they deal with ink and they're changing things on printers and computers.

Okay, and I do notice that for the actuals for so far, 2026, it's still only 500.

for clothing?

Yeah.

That was just the one person this year. Next year it's changing.

How many people?

There's going to be like eight people that get clothing allowances.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

Eight people.

Oh, eight people. Yeah. Okay, okay. All right, thank you. Anyone on this side?

Hewley.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for coming in tonight. I think you might have said this, but I didn't write it down. How many help desk staff do you have?

is five PC techs. Three of them are dedicated to the help desks. One is dedicated to the website, and one is in the print shop.

Okay, and how many employees do we have in the city of Quincy that use computers in the ballpark?

Well, for licensed users, that's why I go with 1,000, but there's other users that we still support.

Okay. In my organization, we have half that many employees and more help desk people. So, I mean, I don't think you're way out of industry standards at all when it comes to the ratio of clients to help desk support staff.

And that was our goal, I think, with the telephone operator. That person actually just scans the phones. It's on an automated system. So we're going to try to repurpose that role into more of a help desk PC tech role.

Like a triage type of role? OK, that makes sense. Let's see. I'm looking at item 530303. Mm-hmm. and if you could maybe expand upon what contractual covers.

That's mainly all of our licensing, our servers, wireless access points, anything for network infrastructure pretty much.

Okay.

And do you do... As well as our cybersecurity tools.

Right. Off the top of your head, are you doing, like, three-year leases, five-year? I'm licensing the three-year leases.

Mainly between three and five, yeah, depending on what the product is.

Okay. That makes sense. And in terms of security software, that's all included within that, and that would include sort of email filtering, all those different types, phishing, training, things of that nature.

Yes.

the training that I didn't fall for, by the way, just to put on record with that one.

Yeah, we have a vote. Seven things that we did in the IT department around cybersecurity upgrades in the last two years.

Okay. Moving to item 530400. Mm-hmm. Again, similar question. It's not obvious to me what the communication line item encompasses.

Communication, that's more around our phones, our cell phones, mailing materials. it's all paid out of that line.

All the desk phones?

The desk phones are more on contractual, the VoIP system.

All right. And then moving to 550803, DP Supplies, if you could maybe expand upon. That's basically office supplies.

Toners, we spend a ton on toners for all the different departments. So people have desktop printers as well. So you're carrying the cost of the department's technology. For many departments that don't have a budget for it.

Okay. All right. Let's see. Yeah, so, and just want to make a few comments. Your department is one among the first few departments that I visit with, given my background. I had a real quick interest in wanting to understand how you guys handle things. There's a lot of We have a wide array, we'll say a broad spectrum of levels of technical competencies. and any time you have an organization that has, you know, we don't hire every position for how well you can navigate Microsoft Access or whatever it is There's other skills that we hire for, but they all have to interact with technology. And so I'm actually kind of surprised at your ratio to end user and help desk staff. They must be very good at turning over tickets pretty quickly. Definitely. Yeah. and then there's another aspect of it that a lot of us don't think about which is surveillance in the city.

There's different cameras that provide security even in this building and so forth and that is a We walked through that for a little while on the day I stopped by, and it's a pretty intricate thing, quite similar to what my company has about 300 properties, and we have an integrated security platform, and that does take a lot of maintenance. You always have to monitor it and so forth. So I think there's a lot of back office stuff that a lot of us take for granted every day, although some of us would like to figure out what's going on with the microphones here. Yeah, we could reboot it, I guess. But yeah, I think there's a tremendous amount of IT, and a lot of us take it very much for granted. IT is very much one of those organizations, kind of like the FBI, you only think of them when something goes wrong. and they only make the press when something goes wrong and I think in a growing city, in a growing staff and growing complexity and

you know we've had some hacks right and that's it's important to be mindful that when you're looking at individual budget items and you see maybe we could recoup 20 grand here 10 grand here think about the cost when there's an exploit or some kind of hack. So it's often when it happens that we start to think about it. And so we should look cautiously at what we're at this budget, in my opinion, just from my professional experience. So that's all the questions I have. Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone on this side?

Councilor Mahoney? Hi, Ryan, how are you?

Good, how are you doing?

I'm doing okay. So I'm going to go back to, I'm going to start with the computer equipment line. So what's on your computer equipment line?

136,826.

How much have you spent this year?

We've spent about 85% of that.

Do you have anything encumbered?

We do have a few things encumbered in that line.

What do you have encumbered?

More around, I think it's $8,000.

So in the last several years, I'm going to ask Madam Auditor, because I'm doing this off my phone, could you go back and give me the last five years in that line item? Computer Equipment. Oh, sorry about that, Councilor. Could you just repeat yourself, please? Sure, so could you go, because I don't have my, actually.

Okay.

It's okay, Susan, I got it.

All right. Sorry.

That's OK. So in 22, you spent $43,000 in this budget line item. In 23, you spent $108,000. In 24, you spent $53,000. in 25 you spent 51, and you had, and just for the record, in 24 you had, in 25 you spent 51 and you had 138, so a lot of this budget went back into the free cash, and then year to date, you're at 118, right? And how much did you say that you think you have?

I believe it's 13, is it 13,700 right now? Yep.

You have 13,000 encumbered?

13,000 encumbered, yep. And that's for laptops and desktops that we need to replace. like next year, next fiscal year, our virtual machines, there's about 120 of them. That software is becoming obsolete because it's been five years. We're gonna have to replace them. Mainly they're in police stations and city buildings and that's gonna be a big chunk of it for next year.

That's fine. I'm not going to cut it this year, Brian, but I will say that this is a trend. You had $53.53, and now you're at $118. You're going to spend it this year. So we need to be realistic about what we're doing because if you're coming with a budget that's too high, it's just going to free cash or it's costing taxpayers money. So we didn't create this. I didn't create this. I didn't create the budget. I didn't create the debt. I didn't create any of this. But we are really looking at this because I don't want people to lose their jobs. And I do think that we have to tighten our belts. Everybody does. and that's how we're looking at it. And quite honestly, this is how every organization works. It's like whether you're a for-profit business, you're gonna be looking at things and saying, you know we didn't make as much profit as we want to or people you know I'm sorry but bodies do end up costing money and people will look at that and say you know how can we how can we pay for these things differently But I also understand that this is an important department that keeps everybody running. So for the contractual line items, could we go through the contractual, the same thing? Where are you at for fiscal year 27?

I'm at 97%.

So what I see in the actuals, I'm not sure when Susan printed this, but in the actuals we see $2.5 million, and of your 2.7, you're saying it's 95%. So Susan, can you tell me what's encumbered?

So currently in fiscal 2026, there is 2,609,638.76 spent. there are encumbrances totaling $73,724.89 and there's an available balance left of $83,985.08.

So do you have 83 cents? Because you haven't. That's what I'm looking at. So again, I'm looking back at the last five years in this budget you spent in 23, 2.3, and 24, 2.5. in 25, 2.5, and you have 2.7 and you have $83,000 left over. Do we have any wiggle room in that room, in that line item?

Yeah, we have some wiggle room, definitely.

We have $75,000 of wiggle room in that line item.

I should be able to make that work.

Okay, so we're going to cut. I'm going to make a cut, too. I have to make sure I'm making the cut. Contractual line item 530303 for $75,000. I make that a motion.

Okay. Any discussion on the motion? Councilor DiBona?

Thank you for coming in tonight. Would that be okay? Will you be able to absorb that? Yeah, we should be able to make that work. Okay. Thank you.

Any further questions on this? Roll call vote then on the motion to reduce that line item.

Ash, DiBona, Hubley, Jacobs, Mahoney, McKee, Ryan, Yuan, and Riley.

Then I'm going to move on to 530-400, communications. So the communications, where are we at for 2026? What I have from Susan's report is it's 268,932 and we have 365. Do we have anything encumbered?

Currently there has been $269,893.89 spent. There are encumbrances totaling $74,494.27. and there is still an available budget of $27,074.14.

So Brian, I'm going to ask again. For next year, 265, we have, when I look back in this communication line, you are all over the place with this. 2021, 318, 245, 252, 318, 254, 268, and we have 25. So do you think it can do without $20,000 the next year?

20,000 could work.

Okay, so $20,000 cut to line item 530400 for $20,000. Thank you.

So we have a motion on the contractual line, 530303, to reduce, no, communications. Communications line, sorry. 530400, communication reduced by 20,000. So that would bring it down to 345. Any discussion on that motion? Councilor Hubley.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to double check one thing. If I heard correctly earlier, or if I'm maybe confusing it with something else, this entails some amount of postage? Function Communication? No, not always. That's separate. Okay, I'm mixing it up with something else. Never mind, thank you.

Any further discussion on the motion? Jacobs.

So and I think you did mention it had to do with cell phones. Is that the primary thing that this covers is cell phones? A lot of it. And for what departments? All the departments across the city?

Every department in the city is on one bill, pretty much. The police have one separate bill, but it's small. But we pay for the majority of police, fire, and city.

I just was curious, because I also thought posted was, I thought that had been mentioned too, but it is about cell phones. All right, thank you.

You're welcome. Do we need a roll call vote? Can I say all in favor?

You just did.

Well, if someone wants a roll call vote, but I don't think we need it. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, wonderful. Any further discussion?

Mahoney, hang on one second. There we go. Go ahead. I'm sorry, because I was missing what you were saying at the beginning. So you said that you had breakage from one line and then a telephone operator. Can you tell me a little bit about the two positions that you had breakage in for?

One went on a medical leave for more than half the year.

Okay.

Which one was that? That was the communications director. Okay. He's back now.

What?

Okay, and then for the telephone operator, she unfortunately passed away this year.

Oh, I'm very sorry, very sorry. So, she passed away in 2026?

This fiscal year.

So what's the plan? And you just said, because I missed what you said. So if you could just tell me.

She basically answered the phone for the city. It's on an automated system right now. So when you call, it says dial one for this department. were looking at revamping that position and just make it fit with the department where it's needed.

Okay. So she was really, I mean, I'm not trying to make light of this, so you're saying it was an automated thing, she was the operator?

She was the operator during business hours. Business hours, okay.

and I'd like for you to be able to do that as well, but at the same time, if you've been able to operate without this person for a while and you don't have any for a telecom operator, I'm gonna make a suggestion to cut 512135. because we're not going to be replacing that. I think we just have to, we're no new positions. We're not changing positions to do something else. So if we can make a cut from a 5-1-2, 1-3-5, and I'm very sorry for the loss, but I also think it sounds like it's the... The situation is being handled by the automation of it.

Okay, so we have a motion on line item 512.135 to cut it in its entirety. Any discussion on that motion? Councilor Hubley?

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Just a quick check. So how do you feel that change impacts things?

Well, we'll just stay automated with that system, you know. Okay. Thank you.

All those in favor? There's no further discussion? Oh, you're going to vote no? Councilor Asheson, no. Everyone else? And Councilor DiBona's a no. Okay. So we pass that. Okay. I have a motion to approve the whole budget as amended. Motion to approve this budget as amended by Councilor Mahoney. Any discussion on that motion? Ask them, yeah, I would prefer to ask them now and just after we take the final vote. Go ahead, Councilor Kee.

Hi. Sorry, I just, this is relatively small compared to other things, but What if $4,800 is the clothing allowance for eight people? That's $600 per person? Is that right?

I think so. I'm not sure. It's around there.

Really?

I can send you an email of what it was. but I know it went up this union negotiation, you know?

Okay.

Because last year I think we said it was like 500 for one person, you know?

This is some nice clothes. Thank you. So I wondered, the ERP manager, and went up 11.47%. Can you talk about that?

He's in the supervisor's union, so that was all union negotiations.

Okay. Is the network admin fairly new in the role? The salary went down?

Yes, the person retired, so we hired someone new.

How many PC techs are there? Five. Five. Okay. What does the communications director do?

He's basically doing all your wiring for computers and phones and programming phones in the city. for your desktop phones.

Okay. And then just quickly on the... Vehicle Policy, the vehicles that you talked about, are they take-home vehicles?

No, they all stay in the Coddington lot.

Okay. All right, thank you.

You're welcome.

Okay, so we have a motion to approve this budget as amended. Any discussion on that? All those in favor? Any opposed? Okay, wonderful.

Thank you.

Thank you. Moving on to the downtown, is that the next one? Yes, downtown, Ms. Cahill. Page 63 of the budget book.

Yeah, you need to read. Those of you who I haven't met, my name is Mary Cahill. I'm the director of the downtown. I've been in this position for the past seven years. I sent you a presentation. but I'd like to review the mission statement for our department and let you know what we do day in, day out. So the mission and the vision for the Downtown District Department was created to protect our investment throughout the downtown and is a vital part of the renewal plan which encourages continued growth and development in these beautiful spaces. Our vision is to set the standard for public space stewardship and to sustain and elevate the revitalization of downtown Quincy by maintaining dynamic public spaces that inspire connection, economic growth, and community engagement by ensuring downtown Quincy remains clean, safe, and vibrant throughout every season. So just a little history, when I started here, the downtown district was Hancock Adams Common.

I was the first employee. I was here for six weeks by myself, and I jumped into the back pocket of Wooden Curran, and they brought me through how everything works, went through the manuals that are in my office, how the fountains work, the lighting, where we buy things, what kind of landscape we have. Six weeks later, I got two employees. Two employees. Chris Walsh, and Peter Coletti. So we hired a carpenter and a plumbing specialist. We bought a rake and we shot it. And seven years later, the downtown district, I'd like to explain to you what the areas of responsibility are, how big the downtown is today. So our areas of responsibility are the Hancock-Adams Common, the City Hall parking lot, the Monroe parking lot, Thomas Crane Public Library, Cardington Street, both sides from Hancock to the high school, Washington Street on the Library-Democrath Highway,

Speer Street, Maple Street, Foster Street, Hancock Cemetery, the back walkway behind City Hall and Stop and Shop, John Quincy Adams Park, Maple Street and Chestnut Street, Hancock Street from Bergen Parkway, Bank of America to School Street, Hannon Parkway to Revere Road, Kilroy Square, Kilroy Garage, Carter Jaff, Dunford and Revere Road, the Liberty Tree Island on Hancock Street, the Town Book Parks, Harris, the 2-1 Revere Road, General's Park, McConville Way, Dunford Drive, the Quincy Historical Building, and the tree pits and flower beds and irrigation for all of those areas. The department has grown drastically in the past seven years. I've actually been privileged to see all of that being built and it was pretty cool. So the general information about our department is there are seven employees, including myself. We have four vehicles, two trucks, and two Kubotas.

Kubotas are the little orange, I call them the Popemovils, riding around Quincy. Our hours of operation, we cover 365 days a year out here. Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 4.30, Saturdays, 7 to 3.30, Sundays, 7 to 3.30, and holidays, 7 to 11. Coverage for all events during the year in the downtown district. Responsible for all snow and ice cleanup and removal throughout the downtown. We're responsible for the operation, maintenance, and repairs of all the fountains, the lighting, the statues, the monuments, the irrigation system, and the flags downtown daily. We inspect and maintain all fountains, lighting, statues, monuments, and flags daily. So. Typical day in the life of one of my guys, and some of them are here tonight, thank you guys, is they pick up the trash and debris throughout all those areas that I just told you about. They clean up any spills, graffiti, broken glass, et cetera.

They empty 47 trash barrels daily. They power wash 47 trash barrels weekly. 67 wooden benches throughout the downtown are sanded and stained three times annually. We leap low in major walkways and under the benches. We wipe down the benches so that people have a clean place to sit. We pick up all the trash and all the abutting parking lots. We inspect all the statues and lighting. We pick back sidewalks behind City Hall from the Tea and Stop and Shop, Garden Street, all those streets I named. We maintain and inspect our equipment. We clean and maintain all the flower and tree pits. We bring all the trash to DPW daily. inspect and maintain flags and flag poles, and we power wash the sidewalks and walkways as needed. That's daily, seasonally, We maintain and clean the fountains daily, add chemicals, clean out the baskets. We have a very intricate fountain system out here. I don't know if you guys have had a chance to see it, but it goes underground. There's a vault.

which sits right here outside this window, which has six motors in it, five drives, a control panel, the whole System goes down into the fountains. There's a control panel that runs it. We have two spigot fountains here at the end of Hancock Adams Common. We've got another fountain which also goes underground at General's Park. So the pumps, the lighting, the UV system, there's an intricate sand filter system that's inspected daily. The baskets are emptied. The spigots are cleaned. We also know removal in the downtown. So downtown, I don't know if you've been out here when it snowed or if it's been icy, it's a disaster. The bricks freeze. For some reason, the bricks are 15 degrees colder than the rest of the concrete or the sidewalks, so it's an ice skating rink out there.

If we're not out there the minute the first snowflake hits and when the snow is melting, we've literally been up here at midnight because it did a deep freeze and we had to come up here and immediately clean it up. We deep clean the fountains and start up and shut down. We start up and shut down the fountains, sand and stain, like I said, the benches, wash and maintain the statues and monuments, mow and edge all lawns and all access. All those areas that I explained to you, we do all the mowing. the weed whacking and the edging for all of those areas. We sand all the bricks in the manuals. We have to sand every brick that's in here or you're going to cause the first year we didn't do it and it cost me about $7,500 in replacing bricks that got damaged because of vehicles driving over them or weather. related issues. We trim the trees and bushes as needed. We paint the 97 light poles that are out there. We paint the trash cans and Wi-Fi boxes. We sand and salt as needed. We do the spring and fall cleanup. These guys tease me back here that there's not a leaf on the ground when it's the fall here.

We remove all leaves from the Hancock Adams and all the parks throughout the downtown and we maintain the irrigation system throughout the downtown, which is a pretty big problem. So that's the area we cover. Those are the tasks that we do. And any questions on any of that? Is that one?

McGee.

Thank you so much. I didn't know that there was a whole department for this, so this is helpful to understand what you do. Are there any open positions now?

We have one open position. We had an associate that his last day was Friday.

Okay.

But he's worked the whole year, so. Okay. It's in the budget.

All right. And then how many mech technicians I've got down, mechanical technicians, I guess? Five. Five, okay. And what do you use the contracted line for?

Originally when I started, everything was in contractual because I didn't have any people and I didn't have any equipment. So everything was, so little by little I've been transitioning what's still contractual and what is now in my actual labor. So in contractual, I thought you might ask that. We have. So under contractual, fountain specialists. So again, like I said, that fountain is, it's a $3 million fountain. If we've got a driver, a motor, or an issue that we don't know, we've got to call the fountain company that installed it, which is located in Florida. They've had to come here twice since. So fountain specialists, the fertilizer. You have to be certified in order to fertilize anything within the city. We do not have any certified specialists for that, so we have to have an outside contractor come in for that. Electrician.

We do not have an electrician. So I have to contract out. And there's a lot of stuff out here. The lights for the statues, the lights for the farms, there's lights everywhere. with weather and all the things that we have that go on here, it's a lot in the electrical. Mason work. Just like Dave Murphy, we weren't able to hire a Mason. We tried for a year and couldn't get somebody. A lot of the... Hardscape out here is specialty stuff. It's granite. It can't be just cleaned with Dawn liquid soap. We can't use regular ice melt. We have to use a specialty ice melt that's in the manuals. So, the park is also eight years old. You know, things start to go. And, you know, we have had to re-route in front of old, right in front of here. Skate guards.

ton of masonry work, Bogan Tree, those beautiful trees that you see in the fall, you know, those are gigantic. You had to have Bogan Tree come in and trim all of the trees throughout Hancock Adams Common and General's Park this year. Nichols. If you came in today, you might have got hit by the sprinklers. I apologize if you did. But we had to re-sod the walkways because the ice melt and the snow and the Brutal Winter that we had, burnt it, and it wasn't going to come back. So those are the things that we have in contractual.

OK. Thank you. Can I ask the city auditor what the latest numbers are for 2026 in that line?

Yes, Councilor. To date, in the contractual line, 101,697.82 has been spent. However, there are encumbrances open of 48,632.86, along with the requisition, which just means it's in the early stages of becoming in conference of $1,800. So there is $28,841 available to the state.

Okay. So that... 28,000, and that was the same budget as this year, 180,000. So it looks like this year will be the highest of the last three years of expenses.

Yeah, and if you notice, It's grown each year, and so has the cost, you know what I mean? And we've taken on other responsibilities.

I think I might make a motion to cut this line by $20,000 to $160,000.

So if I could, every year, something big goes on there, out there. Doesn't happen every year, but two years ago, we had a drive go. It was a $20,000 drive, and then the, Labor to come and have it done. Last year, we had the electrical blocks behind the fountain go. We had to dig up the entire trench behind it. It was another $17,000 to $18,000. We've had to have the motor taken out of the fountain over at General's Park. We had to have an outside contractor come in, remove the the motor, take it, repair it, replace it, put it back in. So three years in a row, we've had a $20,000 hit that was unexpected. So I'm a little nervous about 20,000.

I guess I'm just looking at the actual spending for the last few years. And in 2024, it was $120,000. In 2025, $146,000. So even with those $20,000 expenses, it's still below $180,000. And I know that costs are going up. Even this year, there's $28,000 left with a $180,000 budget. So I guess I'm trying to cut where it will where we can, you know what I mean, so. Oh, I understand.

Okay, Councilor Pia, you're withdrawing that motion or you're moving it forward? I'm moving it forward, yeah. Okay, so we have a motion on the table, 530303. contracted to reduce that line item by $20,000 from $180,000 to $160,000. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Any discussion on the motion? Councilor DiBona?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Listen, I've been through this entire, the eight years that you've been doing the downtown. You've done a phenomenal job. I can remember the trees outside here that... basically it was so dark. We talked about Dan Mitten tonight. Lieutenant Mitten I used to see down here at the library in here in plain clothes at all hours of the night. People were sleeping outside here. It was very dark. and I'm glad you did your presentation. You talked about all the expansion that we've done over the years. I think we need to take into consideration that You know, you got Trader Joe's, you got medical use. The former Napoli's is being developed right now. There's gonna be more green. There's gonna be more things that are gonna happen. These prices are gonna go up. it's going to expand every day like we are.

Next to the child world that's been demolished and you can see the opening in that particular area. I'm glad you gave your presentation and talked about how it's evolved in the downtown. It's a lot every day. It's beautiful. second to the Rockefeller Center with the Christmas tree lighting. This is second in the whole entire United States. It's unbelievable. The people I talk to, in the city are just like amazed. And then anybody who comes from outside the city or the people that used to live here, I ask them about it and they're like, It's unbelievable. They come back just for that, just for the lighting. And we keep it. I always ask the mayor, can we keep that going? Can we keep that going till like February? Yes, we're going to keep it going. I just think you've done a phenomenal job downtown here. And as we expand with the downtown, with the new buildings that are being built, I believe that you're going to be having to use all this.

It's going up, as you just said. So I would be more off to not cut this item. So I won't be supporting this. Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Councilor DiBona. Anyone else? Councilor Hubley? Sorry, I'll take it.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Just to dovetail a little bit on what Councilor DiBona just asked and something I didn't think to ask earlier, you've done a good job at articulating all the different properties that your crew is responsible for and the different modalities within them, whether it's edging, the graphs and lighting and pumps and mechanicals and electrical and so forth. I know we've recently added a small pocket park, the John Quincy Adams. Are there any known future expansions that we might want to factor in before delving into this. I just want to think within the next year or two because there's also, you know, you've got to ramp up some of these things.

I don't think for next year there's anything that's scheduled to be ready and open. I would be okay. I'll make this happen. I'll make it happen.

Ash, I'm going to grab you next.

Thank you for the very detailed, you know, it's good to see the daily product and what Thank you. Thank you.

My guys, do the snow removal. It comes out of the budget for DPW.

Okay. Thank you.

You all set? All set?

Councilor Mahoney? Thank you, Mary. So I wasn't really When I was in the council before, I voted against this being in the operation budget. So it's not that the value isn't there to have somebody in the downtown doing the things you're doing, Mary, but it should be being paid for by the downtown, the DIF. that's where it should be paying for. That's personally what I think because although the whole city uses the downtown, the investment in the downtown and the promise of the downtown that was gonna cost us no money and it's costing us $904,000 in our operating budget. And we also have $1.8 billion in our debt, which a lot of that is diff. So, you know, I could go through each line item, and I can tell you that in your overtime, when I look back in your overtime, in your overtime, you had a surplus of $28,000 in fiscal year 25, and you have $25,000 in Fiscal Year 26.

So I'd be looking to cut $25,000 for Fiscal Year 26.

So just in the the rest of June, I'm going to use between $5,000 and $7,000 of that. We have two watch parties on Friday. We have two watch parties on Saturday. We have a kid fest here from 12 to 8. So it's all hands on deck for those. if you could cut it less than what I have to... No, you're not going to cut it for this year.

It's for next year, right? That's fine. It's for next year. That's fine. All right, so... What did I just say?

$25,000 for... Let's do the plus one first.

Okay.

Okay, so we had a motion on 530303 to cut, right? 20,000, okay. If I could just add, and I know, Councilor Mahoney, you may have some other cuts that you want to propose, but The one thing I'm learning from this is we've got to realize that all this beautiful infrastructure costs a lot of money to maintain. You know, all of these... Expansive Fountains and the lighting. And so, you know, it's something to consider as development is made and, you know, Pocket Parks are created that they're not self-maintained. There's a line item that we have to factor in for ongoing perpetual maintenance. And as far as the events that happen, it just goes to show they're not free. they're free to attend, but there's a cost associated with that on top of whatever the celebration budget is. So on that motion, do we need a roll call vote or can I say all those are big?

Can I say one thing? I just gotta say, I gotta give a shout out to my guys. I gotta tell you that 365, it was 98 degrees today. They're outside. Five below zero. We don't have a garage or a shed or a place to hide. These guys, you know, Take it to heart that everything out there is real time.

I have a motion. I don't want people to miss the fact that real time, everything gets started. We have a motion on the contracted item. I'd like to take a vote. Oh, I'm sorry.

Please, thank you.

What's that? We're voting on the 20,000. We're voting on that line item, yes. That's why I gotta keep some order here or else I'm not gonna remember what's going on.

Ash, DiBona, Hubley, Jacobs, Mahoney, McKee, Ryan, Yuan, Riley.

Anything else? So I do. I don't know at this point what the whole budget is. But because this is in the downtown, and even though we haven't got the div Reconciliation back from downtown. It needs to be paid for out of the DIF, not out of this whole budget. Just like we talk about CPA monies and the person, I wasn't here last night, it cost the last 10 minutes. That is an offset. So this should be zeroed out and be paid for from the DIF. especially seeing that this administration keeps saying that the dip pays is paying for itself and we haven't been able to prove it. So I want this, and there's another piece of this that I'd like to say. You know, we do have a natural resources. I wasn't here for that last night. I talked about this before. We have hardscapes all over the city. It's not just in the downtown. We have fancy things all over the city. I will use board four, Kincaid Park, $5.6 million invested into Kincaid Park. It's a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace. If you go to Kincaid Park, you're gonna see the basketball court is all peeled back, needs to be painted, it hasn't been weeded, it hasn't been taken care of.

You can go throughout the whole city, when you talk about those pocket parks we were talking about, in the downtown, we keep it pristine and that's great. And I really do appreciate it because it is beautiful and I'm not trying to take anything away from you, Mary. What I'm trying to say is that it shouldn't be in the operating budget. it should be being paid for by the DIF. So this department's not going to go away. It's just going to be offset by the DIF. So I would like to make that cut that will be coming out of the budget. Mine, I'm 650, 640 downtown district. for whatever the balance is of the $904 after we've cut it, so it'll be a little bit lower, and then it will be paid for by the DIF. If it's not going to be paid for by the DIF, then I'm going to be making a recommendation to cut the whole thing.

Mr. Walker.

what I would request the council to do is to, if that's the request, to have this funded out of the DIF directly, which I believe the administration, a number of years ago, had proposed doing that. At that time, the council by recollection, I could be wrong, went in a different direction, but I would request that if the council believes that, as Councilor Mahoney suggested, that this should be an offset to let us go back and show that offset and bring this back to you. But at least let us make a determination. on what can be offset. I am not in a position tonight to say that we can 100% do that. just because we're here tonight.

I think it's a valid suggestion, but I think we would need the opportunity to discuss internally and then come back and present as we would with the tourism. It would look a lot like the tourism budget. where the line items would be offset by DIF revenue.

So when are we going to do that, Monday night?

Wednesday, you can do that.

Well, there's a motion. There is a motion. Councilor Mahoney has made a motion. I think that certainly if we'd had a little better understanding of the DIF, and we've certainly been asking for it, it might make this conversation a little bit easier. Councilor Mahoney, Did you want to add anything? I do.

So I think that's fine. You can certainly bring it back. And again, I'm going to say that the work that's being done is great. But there's a lot of this work that could also be done by different departments. So we could actually dismantle the whole thing. I'm not asking to dismantle the whole thing. I'm asking for it to be offset by the DIF. And if you come back and say, well, this can be offset by the DIF, but this can't, then what we have to look at, then where can it be absorbed into the rest of the budget? Because that's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking to break up this department. I'm looking to offset the cost for the taxpayers into the DIF. And again, if we come back and find out yeah, we're commingling and it's all the same, then we'll talk again. But at this point, this is what it needs to be done. And every event I go to, it's beautiful, I see you working all the time. It's a lot of work that's being done. I don't wanna see the fountains. I don't wanna take that away and say we shouldn't be doing it because I see value in it. But I also just, I'm gonna reiterate, we have a whole city to take care of.

and this is a department that was created in the operating budget that the taxpayers are paying for, where we're not supposed to have to pay for anything in the downtown, the fountain, all these things we talked about how it's been paid for by the DIF, yet we have an operating budget here that's also eating into our The debt's eating into our budget and we need this to be covered by something else because we have to look for ways to be able to offset these things. And we also have to be really, I'm just really, really, really discouraged by what I see through the rest of the city. because I see pocket parks that were created that aren't taken care of. I don't even know what it is. The one next to the beach coma, that's not what people thought it was going to look like. That's horrific looking. and then also I will just go back to Kincaid Park. $6.8 million hard scaped, beautiful when it came out. A year later, burnt brushes. things aren't taken care of. And now it's like the equipment's tilted and the pavement's all torn up.

it's it's really it's been neglected and that's what makes me sad is that the downtown is beautiful but we really should be making our whole city every ward should be having that 10 to 11 care but I don't want to see what is beautiful right now going backwards. I just think it should be paid for by the DIF. If we can't pay for all of it by the DIF, then we're gonna have to find another way to pay for it, but it's not gonna be, that will be a cut at that point when you bring it back. So I just wanna make sure you understand that. So I'm more than willing to wait.

Okay, so we will table that motion.

Yeah, yeah, okay. Oh, I just have a quick question. So, from this actual spending, this department, exist from fiscal year 2024, it's correct? This department start from... You look at the five year, right? Yeah, because the first year we wanted to have 2021 to 2023 or zero budget, so means this department exists from fiscal year 2024. and my question here is, before fiscal year 2024, the whole downtown area, which other departments taking care of it? We did, we did, question looks great.

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. When we initially started this process, the positions were included in different departments that are not we did not break them out. I believe it was almost, it was entirely within the Park Department budget and then at a certain point in time the determination was made to break that out into its own division. and that's what you've seen before you, but that goes back at least seven or eight years now that we started having a group focused on the downtown.

Okay, so we've been maintaining the downtown since 2019. It was paid for by another department of the DIF before 2024.

Okay, we're going to hold this item. We're going to push this off, and we will work with the administration to see if we can move this into the DIF, and we will have to address it on Monday night, right? Oh, the 17th, right. I'm sorry, my apologies. Okay, terrific. Okay, we will bring you back. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, next we have Christine Cugini. Do I pronounce your name correctly?

You said Cugini, right?

Yeah, you're good.

I'm used to it, don't worry about it.

for Veterans Services, page 67 in our budget. Yes, could you do, can I ask a favor? Thank you.

City Council Members, thank you for the opportunity to share about the role and responsibilities of the Veterans Services Veterans Services Department, and what is required to effectively serve the veterans and their families of Quincy. The Veterans Services Department currently operates with a staff of four in one vehicle. Our office is open Monday through Friday , but our commitment often extends beyond those hours to accommodate the veterans and their families when they need us most. our mission is to ensure that veterans, their families, and their dependents receive the benefits, services, support they have earned through their service to our nation. This includes administering state veteran benefits, assisting federal VA claims, providing emergency financial assistance,

in connecting veterans with housing, healthcare, employment, transportation, and mental health resources. Beyond benefit administration, we are often the first point of contact for veterans in crisis. Whether someone is facing homelessness, coping with a service-connected injury, struggling with mental health challenges, or navigating financial hardship, our office provides guidance advocacy, support during some of the most difficult moments of their lives. Many of our veterans face increasingly complex challenges, some of which are coping with PTSD, Traumatic brain injuries, chronic pain, substance use disorders, housing instability, and social isolation. the number of veteran suicide has reported to have decreased from 22 a day to 17.

That does not mean we need to stop what we're doing. it means we continue to work each day to bring that number down. Equally important is our commitment to supporting our elderly veterans, surviving spouses, caregivers, and family members through advocacy, guidance, access to resources as they face the challenges of aging, financial assistance, healthcare needs, loss and major transitions. This work requires more than technical knowledge. It requires trust, accessibility, consistency, experience, confidentiality, and the ability to listen. Staff of this department are Chapter 115 trained and two members of VA accredited.

To fulfill our responsibilities effectively, we require adequate and stable funding, ongoing professional training, and the administrative capacity to manage a growing and increasingly complex service volume. We currently serve approximately 2200 veterans in Quincy. the actual number is likely higher and does not include spouses, children, caregivers, surviving family members who all depend on our services. As the needs of our veterans continue to evolve, so must the services we provide. We see an increased demand for mental health services, housing assistance, and guidance navigating state and federal systems. Investments in technology, outreach, coordination are essential to ensure no veteran falls through the cracks.

The Veterans Services Department is a forward-facing department that works closely with many city departments, organizations, and residents. one special partnership we have is with the Quincy Public Schools. Together, we coordinate veteran-related events and ceremonies to engage the students and help teach the values of service, patriotism and remembrance. Throughout the year, the department will also maintain and support memorials, ceremonies and events that honor those who served or those who continue to serve. In doing so, we remind veterans and their families that their sacrifices will never be forgotten. In addition to serving our veterans, our department also generates a direct reimbursement to the city from the Commonwealth. The reimbursement to Quincy at a 75 cent on the dollar

for eligible Chapter 115 benefits paid. We currently assist approximately 130 veterans on Chapter 115. These benefits amount range from $5 to $2,300 as a monthly benefit. our advocacy and claims work also brings in additional federal dollars into the community. Over the past year, our efforts increased VA benefits received by Quincy veterans and their families, we increased by 12%. resulting in more than $307,000 in additional federal benefits flowing directly into our local economy. We are also facing challenges of federal benefits being cut. Updated information from the DAV just today

a new congressional proposal was unveiled that could cut federal veteran benefits for up to 1.5 million veterans. and reduce disability compensation payments to them as much as $57 billion over the next 10 years. As we look ahead, we are pursuing several important initiatives, including expanding outreach efforts preserving historical records, ensuring veterans are properly identified and honored in our cemeteries, and exploring the ways to use technology to share the stories of our Quincy veterans with future generations. Before I conclude, I'd like to share a few examples of the people behind the numbers.

We've helped a permanently disabled dependent receive benefits based on his parents, his father's military service, providing stability and support throughout his life. We assist the children of a veteran who left his family behind. Their mother suddenly found herself raising their children alone. through their father's military service, we were able to help ensure those children receive the benefits that they were entitled to receive. We helped a veteran widow reopen a previously denied claim following the passage of the PACT Act and secured the benefits she had earned, including a significant retroactive compensation. and then there are the calls that never appear in a report. Just last week, a veteran called me.

She was angry, she was overwhelmed, she was depressed and told me she wished she were dead. She asked, Christine, can I come see you? I said, yes, come and see me. After I hung up, I contacted her social worker to ensure additional support was in place. When she arrived, we sat together and talked for nearly an hour. no form was filed, no reimbursement was generated, no statistic was recorded, but that interaction mattered. The value of this office cannot be measured solely by caseloads, reimbursements, or reports. Every day we help veterans and their families navigate some of the most difficult moments of their lives. Our veterans are not case numbers. They are our neighbors, our family, our coworkers, our friends.

they answered the call to serve our country and it is our responsibility to ensure that when they need assistance, someone answers that call for them. With your continued support, we can continue to fulfill that responsibility and ensure that no veteran is left behind. Thank you for your time, your consideration, and your continued commitment to support Quincy veteran community. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Sorry. Thank you, Christine. Thank you for the work that you do with passion and compassion, helping people navigate bureaucratic government systems. It's shameful to hear that the feds are going to be potentially cutting some of this stuff. So with that, I will open it up to my colleagues for any questions. Any? Council UN? Hang on a second.

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I just have a question about item 512093, Admin Secretary. I'm sorry? 512093. how many positions in that line item? 5-1-2-0-9-3? 5-1-2-0-9-3.

Two. There's only one that's budgeted for two. I'm sorry, budgeted for two, but we only have one right now.

Okay, and you are currently...

It's one open position. Okay.

and that position haven't been filled since 2023, 2024. So that position hasn't been filled for three years.

We had, no, we had a temporary employee who actually just left the position. So she was being paid out of the clerk typist, but doing the work as an admin. so that the admin job has been posted.

Any further questions, Councilor Yuan? No.

Councilor McGee, were you next?

So I'm looking at the five year five year look back and puzzled by a couple of So the salary-wage slash salary-wage perm line is budgeted at $35,000 or so. was the actual spending was zero this year and just $3,000 last year.

So what we use that for is summer help. And with the projects that we have coming on, we've put in a request for some summer help. We also use some temporary and local city residents for fall and in the spring when we're placing flags. So when they come on board, it would just be temporary for a few weeks.

So kind of temporary and doesn't look like a lot has been used in the last ever. No. OK. I'm going to make a motion to cut this line from $35,135 to $5,000, which is more than what's been spent in the last five years.

Yes, but with the new projects that are coming on, I would ask you to please reconsider and maybe going up to maybe 15,000, if you don't mind.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yes. Okay, so we have a motion on line item 510110 to reduce that line item to $15,000. Any discussion on the motion? Okay, all those in favor? Hubley. Aye. Any opposed? Opposed. Okay, Councilor Jacobs, DiBona is opposed. Councilor Hubley, did you want to speak or register opposed? You're all set? So that motion is passed. I hope you understand, Christine, we're just trying to keep from cash being left on the table that gets pulled back at the end of the year. it's in no way reflective of what you do. No, I appreciate the conversation.

Yeah, I don't want to, I'm going to try not to cut from actual people, so where we can, that looked like an easy line item. and then, sorry?

Don't pay attention.

Okay, sorry, I didn't know. Overtime line as well has been budgeted at, has not gone, oh actually that has, never mind. Okay, back to my other questions. I'm wondering why is longevity 2,000 when either zero or $250 has been used in the past? three years.

So I think there was a transfer in for that. I don't, the longevity is not something that I... Oh, that's another weird longevity thing.

Okay. Okay. Was the Assistant Director of Veterans Services position added in 2025? Yes, it was. OK.

So we kind of moved and reorganized the Assistant Director is now VA certified for claims. And through the department, the Graves Registration Officer duties, kind of, we all fill those roles.

of Commerce. Clerk typist two went from 48,000 something in 2025 to 68, almost $69,000, a more than $20,000 boost. Can you explain that?

Yes, that was what I mentioned earlier about the temporary, yes.

Okay, sorry, yeah, I remember. What is the supply line

for supplies.

Okay. I guess for what kind of supplies?

Yeah, what supplies? Paper. Yeah. Water. Pens. There's supplies, and then that's separate from office supplies. Oh, so... I mean, we kind of use it for both. It's a very small line considering we

I guess I'm not sure what both is referring to. Oh, I'm sorry.

There's an office supply and then there's a supply.

and supplies, I guess I'm just wondering what's the non-office supplies, part of supplies?

It could be some gift cards for our veterans, it could be Flowers, you know, note cards for thank yous.

Okay.

And then what is the Veterans Council? that is the veterans organizations receive a stipend through that budget line. and it's because of their work and participation with the city events.

It looks like Veterans Events is a new line item this year. Is that the case?

Yeah, it is.

Okay. How many events are you having?

So that would include Memorial Day, Veterans Day, General's Bridge, tree lighting, We do, let me see, I'm trying to go through. Marina Bay, you did the one at Marina Bay. Yes, two Vietnam Veteran Days, thank you, Councilor Riley. POW Day, Gold Star Families. We have quite a few events. We need to make sure we're remembering all.

Looking at the repairs line, looks like there's been no money spent in the last three years and the only thing spent is $65 in 2023. So yeah, I think I'm going to make a motion to cut that line item. This is repairs.

520400, repairs, maintenance, $960. Yeah. Well, I cut the whole line, Adam. Christine, do you want to expound upon what that might be used for?

No.

It doesn't seem like it's been kind of a very small amount. Okay, so we...

The auditor is saying there is an open encumbrance for $500 for this year? Yes. Okay.

Okay, so we'll leave that in. It's a nominal amount. Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. All right. Thank you. That's it for me. You're welcome.

I'll go ahead, Councilor Jacobs.

Hi. How are you doing? I just want to go back and just ask a question about the veterans events. does anything from Wreaths Across America come out of that fund, out of that $50,000? When we do the Wreaths Across, when? No. No, so we're not paying for the Wreaths, those are all like, those are all provided to donations. Those are donations. and I got an email from a constituent and they were talking about the parks and the neighborhoods that are dedicated to Fallen Soldiers, are we still decorating those parks every year? You mean placing wreaths?

Yeah, are we still doing that?

Is that going at the same time as the wreaths across them? Is that the same time?

No.

No, okay. I just wasn't sure.

I know that there's one down at... The wreaths are placed Memorial Day.

Yeah, I know there's one down at Renham Playground in the neck. I did see it there. But I just had... a constituent emailed me about that, so I wanted to ask. I also wanted to ask, this is also from that same position about the veteran's grave officer. what happened there? I don't have much interaction with the Veterans Service Office, but this is the one interaction that I've had with Veterans Service. and it was probably six or seven years ago. And I just, who's doing that work now?

So the work has been absorbed through the whole department, but mainly myself as far as the cemetery piece and the coordination with the cemetery. Okay. I just was curious about that.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Any further discussion?

Councilor Hubley is next.

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. For several years, my son and I have been members of the Sons of the American Legion. And I thought I had an appreciation for the work you did. but having been more involved as Chair of the Veterans Services Committee and attending the monthly Quincy Veterans Council meetings and meetings collaborating with you on advocacy, particularly back in February, March, and we should potentially collaborate tomorrow on what I learned about today. in terms of advocacy. I think it's really opened my eyes and touched my heart, frankly. I'll leave it at that.

Anyone on this side? Oh, Councilor DiBona.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Christine, you've done a phenomenal job in this role. I want to thank you for all your hard work. I want to thank your staff. Veterans events have been unbelievable. You really hit it out of the park. Your your advocation for veterans and your dedication, it's very sincere. I appreciate everything you do in your department to keeping the veterans Services at Bay. Just to elaborate a little bit on previous years about cuts in certain budgets. I know Council on Aging is coming up soon and a few years ago, it happened in that particular budget. And I'll tell you, there was an uproar. So, I mean, Not everybody's going to be watching this. There's a lot more people that do, but they're going to know that you guys basically cut out of this budget. I want to go on record that I said no to that. it's a moral belief on my end.

She said she's gonna have summer help. But just to let you know, it happened in previous years in a different budget, and it became an uproar. So I just want to let you know. But with that, I'd like to make a motion to approve as amended.

motion to approve as amended. Councilor Hubley, did you have?

Yeah, on the motion, I apologize for earlier. I wanted to say thank you for all the efficiencies that you added. So with the work you've done to improve Communication, the reduction in expenses in some areas. I know overtime is lower than it's been prior to your leadership. I know you've absorbed responsibilities that were previously done by other staff and I think everyone should be mindful of that effort and those efficiencies relative to the value that's presented by Ash, you were next.

Christine, thank you for the presentation. Incredible example of an agent of our city. The veterans are lucky to have you. We're lucky to have you. I guess I'll, I don't have any questions. I just want to take the I want to take the moment to appreciate you publicly. I know a lot of your work is done one on one and often confidential and behind closed doors and I know that the work that you do is invaluable and thank you for that. I will say I didn't I didn't think that I thought the only budget that could move me to tears was my own, but apparently apparently now this this one as well. But thank you very much for all your work.

Thank you, Councilor Oster.

Jacobs, did you have something?

Yes, I just wanted to say something I just heard. You know, there was a cut to this budget. It was, you know, we cut Summer help. Which one did we cut?

It was the salary and wage.

Salary and wage. Yeah, you know, down to $15,000. You just... said here that you were okay with that before we cut that, right? Weren't you the one who suggested the $15,000?

Yes, I did.

Okay, I just wanted to make sure. because if you weren't okay with that, I only voted, you said you were okay, that's what you wanted. So I just wanted that to go on the record that she wanted it to be a 15,000.

Noted.

Any other discussion on this? OK. First, I will make do with the $15,000. I'm not okay with any cut to a veterans budget.

If you had said that, I probably would have changed my vote the other way.

It seemed to have been kind of a back and forth, so... I just had a couple of questions on the reimbursement. It's 75 cents on the dollar you get reimbursed for the services, the direct benefits that you buy for and provide, which isn't the... and the Board of Directors. is it 75% on top of that? So the 1.2... No, so it's a year later that you get that reimbursement. Of course, because it's the government. So the reimbursement comes in, gotcha. I'm just curious, how do we account for that when it comes back in?

It goes into the Treasury, and then we go through some paperwork and make sure that we're getting what we should be getting.

Okay.

I'll try to understand that better for next year.

and then the only other thing I'd say is that the Veterans Events, you've done some great events. Obviously, in a time where maybe things get a little tighter, that might need to be tightened up a little bit. if need be, but obviously we would never cut anything direct benefits to the veterans. That would never happen. So, Councilor Hubley.

Yeah, on the motion, I just wanted to clarify something that Councilor Jacobs tried to clarify. I don't think Director Congeni asked for a $15,000 cut. I think this body proposed a larger cut and she appealed to us for less of a cut. and I think we should just be very clear about that and I'm happy to have anyone back check me on that by looking later on QATV. So just a clarification, thank you.

DiBona.

Thank you, Madam Chair. With the will of the body, I remember what happened a few years ago. And we came back at a previous meeting and amended it. I remember it vaguely, very vividly. and the council came back and re-voted on it. So if the will of the body, could we re-vote on that particular item in the budget that you guys cut? if I can make a motion to asked for a revote on that cut.

I don't know procedurally if we can do that.

You can, because we came back to the council and we did it. So I'm asking the body if we could have a revote. and if it's up to the council members to allow that to happen.

I think we've already voted on it.

Oh, you can.

I think we've already voted on it. I mean, these are summer help, a few summer help people. We didn't cut it in its entirety, and I don't know if we can revisit this item procedurally. I honestly don't know.

Let's see if they...

McGee. Procedurally, we did come back and we re-voted on that. I remember it like it was yesterday.

Well, you reintroduced it. You reintroduced it.

We reintroduced it. Yes, we did. I'm just asking the will of the body.

That's a different procedure. That's a different procedure. Councilor McKee?

So I want to just, I probably said, you know, this is an easy cut because the highest amount this has been spent in the last five years is $3,493. So the budget for next year that we passed is $15,000. it's much more than what has been spent to date. And that's why I said it was an easy cut because it's temporary employees who may come for seasonal but it's never gone above $3,493 in this last five years, so that's why I said that. and I still, I would say, given the spending, nothing was spent in this current year according to this.

I guess if we wanted to take a vote to revote this, it sounds like it's getting confusing. I think it would have to be unanimous to revote. Hang on a second, Councilor Jacobs.

I just want to make a motion to approve the budget as amended.

That's already on the table. There's already a motion on the... So I think that... I think that this is reasonable and we can just vote on the budget. Move the motion. Just take the vote.

DiBona?

Yes.

Councilor Hubley? Yes. Councilor Jacobs? Yes. Councilor Mahoney? Yes. Councilor McKee? Yes. Councilor Ryan? Yes.

Councilor Yuan? Yes. Okay, so we've approved that budget as amended. Thank you, Christine. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Next up we have Ms. Hanley. Council on Aging Budget, page 66. Are those still with us? Welcome, Michelle.

Good evening. Good evening, Councilor Riley, members of the City Council, Mr. Walker, who stepped out. My name is Michelle Hanley. I am the Director of the Council on Aging. I'd like to begin, of course, as I always do, by thanking Mayor Koch for his continued support of the Council on Aging and the older adults of Quincy. I would also like to recognize our volunteer on Aging Board, and thank the incredible team of very dedicated professionals who serve Quincy residents every day. They work in a very public-facing environment. often helping residents during some of the most challenging moments in their lives. And I'm incredibly proud of the work that they do. Many people think the Council on Aging is as simply a senior center.

In reality, we operate one of the largest community-based aging service systems in the region. According to the 2020 federal census, Quincy is home to more than 24,000 residents age 60 and older, the fourth largest older adult population in Massachusetts. behind only Boston, Springfield, and Worcester. Before I discuss the numbers that I sent to you all this week, I'd like to tell you about a Quincy senior. This resident doesn't know how to use a computer. They don't drive anymore. Their family lives out of state. One day they received a phone call telling them their bank account had been compromised. A few days later, they missed a medical appointment because they didn't know where to turn for transportation.

Shortly after that, they received a notice regarding the fact that their Blue Cross plan was no longer going to be offered, and they didn't understand why or where to turn. For many of us, these are just inconveniences. But for an older adult living alone, they can become crises. The Quincy Council on Aging exists to make sure that that doesn't happen. Day in and day out, the Council on Aging staff helps residents navigate transportation benefits Healthcare, Housing Concerns, Social Isolation, Caregiving Challenges, and increasingly Scams and Financial Exploitation. When an older adult can no longer drive to medical appointments, they call us. when families or caregivers are overwhelmed and don't know where to turn or what resources are available, they call us.

When a resident receives a suspicious call, email or text message and fears they may be the victim of a scam, they call us. When someone is isolated, lonely, or struggling to navigate the many services available to older adults, they call us. Quincy residents rely on us to help them remain independent, healthy, safe, and connected to their community. from July 1st, 2025 through May 31st, 2026, the Council on Aging served over 2,500 unique older adults through transportation, outreach, Health and Wellness Services, social programs, recreation, education, caregiver support, and community engagement. During that same period, participants in our programs and services

checked in more than 45,000 times and accumulated over 126,000 hours of engagement. Transportation remains one of our most critical services. This year alone, our transportation team provided over 26,000 rides including more than 10,000 medical appointments and over 16,000 community trips for grocery shopping, social activities, or other essential services. For many residents, these rides are the difference between remaining independent and becoming isolated. We also focused heavily on health, wellness, safety, and outreach. In partnership with the Quincy Health Department, we provided 90 blood pressure clinics serving over 1,300 residents.

Our Alzheimer's Support Group and Memory Cafe programs provided much needed support and connection for individuals living with cognitive decline, and memory loss and their caregivers. At the same time, we continue to combat social isolation through fitness classes, educational programs, volunteer opportunities, recreational activities and community trips. Nearly 20,000 visits were made to our fitness program alone this year. In October, we welcomed our new outreach coordinator slash senior fraud and scam liaison. The position was initially proposed in the FY26 budget as a senior fraud and scam liaison, but working with the Mayor's Office and Human Resources,

we intentionally structured it as outreach coordinator, senior fraud and scam liaison because the needs of Quincy residents over age 60 extend far beyond fraud prevention. The position supervises and coordinates the Council on Aging's outreach efforts, oversees case assistance and follow-up services, develops educational programming, supports volunteer engagement, and serves as the city's lead resource for fraud and scam prevention affecting older adults. Since the position was filled in October, the outreach team has conducted 36 presentations across 13 senior housing buildings, of Veterans Services, and at the Kennedy Center, topics included Fraud and Scam Prevention, Fall Prevention, the Yellow Dot Program, and the File of Life Program. The outreach team has also completed more than 850 direct outreach calls to older residents.

though impressive, those numbers only tell part of the story. This position came online at exactly the right moment. Some of you may have heard this, but earlier this year South Shore Elder Services, our ASAP, unexpectedly lost state funding, and many seniors across the region faced uncertainty about services they depended on. During the transition to Old Colony Elder Services, Quincy residents needed guidance, advocacy, and reassurance. The outreach coordinator played a critical role in helping residents navigate this transition working with partner agencies in ensuring continuity of service for vulnerable older adults. Without this position, that work would have fallen on existing staff who already are operating transportation, programming, social services, and the daily operation of the Kennedy Center. In a small department such as ours, every leadership position must create capacity.

this position has done exactly that. It has expanded our ability to reach isolated seniors respond to emerging issues, provide fraud education, coordinated services, and maintain continuity during a major system disruption. The position is not simply an added staff member. It is an investment in prevention, outreach, crisis response, and senior safety. the proposed FY27 budget of $1,157,894 represents a 3.05% increase and reflects primarily contractual obligations. It allows us to continue providing these essential services while maintaining responsible stewardship of taxpayer dollars. For a department of only 29 employees, Our reach is significant. Our mission is simple.

Helping Quincy residents age well, remain independent, and stay connected to their community. Every ride, every outreach call, every fraud prevention presentation, every meal served, every dance party held, and every program participant represents a Quincy resident whose quality of life has been improved through services supported by this budget. on behalf of our dedicated staff, volunteers, Council on Aging Board, and the residents we serve, I thank you all for your continued support and respectfully request favorable consideration of the FY27 Council on Aging budget. Thank you, and I'll be happy to answer any and all questions.

Thank you, Michelle. Anyone on this side? No?

Ryan. Thank you for coming tonight, Michelle. That was a great presentation. I'm taking a look at a couple of your line items. And actually, the first one that I see is line item 510029. and I do see that there was a transfer out of $12,000. Can you explain that?

Yes, absolutely. that is the position I just spoke of that wasn't filled until October. And so because I knew I had some breakage in that line, I actually like to keep my munis very clean. As you'll see that I don't have anything left in my longevity. And so I transferred money to cover... I can tell you where it went. I've got all of them. I have everything printed out for you here, but... What's in yours? Sorry. I actually put it on the same sheet you have. if you'll see that $12,000. Are you looking at this one the year to date? Yes. That Susan sent out. It actually went below the $8,000.

510 dollars that went into overtime, 350 dollars went into longevity, and 3,140 dollars went into education. Because though our budget reflects that those were zeros or less, they were actual spending. in education, longevity, and overtime. So I transferred $12,000 out to make that clean.

Okay, all right, and what about in contracted? I see another transfer out of 7,649.

Yes, I did. I transferred it to vehicle repairs, though I think it is probably perfectly acceptable to pay for vehicle repairs out of contracted. again I like to keep things clean and so I transferred money out to vehicle repair line to pay for our aging fleet.

Okay and and education pay I do see that in You didn't have anything in the budget until 2027.

Correct. I, as some of you may know, am only in my second year in this position. When I came on, there was no money in the education There were no employees who got that union benefit. There are now two employees who get that union benefit.

Okay, and they're union employees?

They are. Okay, okay. Both with associate's degrees.

and can you explain the SWAP program?

Sure, that is the Senior Work Abatement Program. It is a wonderful program run actually by the assessor's office. They take in all of the applications for and any of the older adults in the community who meet particular guidelines. And it is facilitated by our department. coordinate the hours that folks work. And it's, again, a senior worker abatement program, so folks can make up to $1,500 that will come off of their third quarter tax bill. Okay, okay, okay.

All right. Okay. Those are just the questions I have for now. Thank you. You're welcome. This side.

Councilor McGee. Hi, I love a clean munis. Thank you. So I wonder about, do you know the revenues that you're bringing in from classes or whatever?

We do. We deposit into a gift account and this year, Sue can double check me, but I actually looked at it today. Sometimes Treasury's a little behind when we bring it to them. We deposit daily. I think we brought in $188,000 so far this year. So it's 835, 83345, 570000.

The account number?

I'm telling Susan the account number. She knows it off the top of her head. I do. I know my minutes. I was a math major. She taught math. I was a math, yeah. In my first life, I was a high school math teacher. Oh, yeah.

Okay. That's great. Thank you so much. And is there a dispatcher position? I see it in the five-year look back, but not in the budget page.

In the CDBG grant, it's actually an open position right now, but it's paid for by CDBG. There was a person filling in that position that was paid out of the dispatch line last year, and I think maybe one week of this year. which I actually transferred to clean that up too.

And then the swap is at zero but budgeted for $35,450.

Correct. That's a placeholder for the assessor's office, similar to when Mr. Rowland was here presenting his budget. He's got a line in his for veterans. Okay. So it's similar.

Okay.

in the past two years, nothing has been taken out.

Okay. So no one's been using that program?

They have, but it's not appropriate for payroll uses. It's a placeholder for the overlay account.

Okay. and what about, what is used, what is contractual services used for?

I already opened to that page, Councilor. Oh, I like it. We use contractual for, we have a $48,800 Budget and Contractual. And please keep in mind that we are a Council on Aging. And so we use that for several classes, entertainment, a baseline for the fitness programs, presentations, and some transportation. As I said, I did use some of it for transportation repairs and other Services, such as we pay, we give $1,000 annually to the Wollaston Senior Center, which is the Asian American Service Association. We also have an employee work there eight hours a week.

Thank you.

Okay.

You're welcome.

Any other questions? Councilor Hubley.

All right. Thank you, Director Hanley, for coming tonight. Just a few statements. So when I first took office, one of the first departments I visited was your department and you know given some you know the history of when you took over the department. It was really reassuring that you quickly took me through all of the different controls that you've put in place in your tenure. Thus far, it was pretty impressive. There's a decent amount of small denomination cash transactions that take place and there is like complete and thorough accounting of it. When it's off by $2, they dig in on a daily basis and reconcile those. there's signed envelopes, dual signed envelopes that get deposited into a safe for controls.

And so with that type of, you know, transactional behavior. It's great to know that you've put in some really strong controls and I appreciate you taking me through and pretty much your entire budget and all of the different accounts and things like that. So it gave me a real strong sense of what you've managed to do since taking the helm and I truly appreciate it and I want to say thank you for that. and on a lighter note, it was really kind of nice to, I've attended a number of the different events there and One of the more recent ones was the opening day of Senior Olympics, which was a ton of fun. I particularly enjoyed watching the staff and seniors volleyball competition. I had to leave before it was over, so I never did get the final score, but I think I can guess what it was. Oh, we won. We being the seniors. Yeah, okay, that's kind of what I thought.

It was a few key players of note. There's one player in particular whose name will remain, Chris Walker. that could use a little practice on some volleyball. But aside from that, that's all I have. I just wanted to make a cheap joke.

They do say every year that they're going to come and practice, and they never do. Our folks practice every Wednesday.

That's all I have. Thank you.

Thank you.

DiBona.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to elaborate a little bit on the volleyball game, back when I was on the Park and Recreation Board, I was actually a participant and just played in that game two years. and the seniors won both years. They put us to the test. Different participants. We didn't have Mr. Walker. I think Mr. Walker might have been out there. I appreciate all your hard work at the Council on Aging, everybody that's a part of it, some of the volunteers that come in there and help out. Your staffing does a phenomenal job with the services that we have. I would hope to the near future that we find more opportunities throughout the city to give you. I think we're gonna be working on that every year. it's big on my plate. Every time I go out there in different wards, they ask about that. So I think as we expand the 103,000 folks the seniors that we have in our city that are very active.

I truly believe that it extends their lives just going to the Senior Center, the Senior Center slash Council on Aging and all the activities that you do. It's just really great. Thank you. I appreciate everything. And with that, I'd like a motion to approve.

Thank you, Councilor DiBona. We do program at the Four River Clubhouse currently and are always looking for additional places to program. This summer we'll be running a pickleball program on Monday and Wednesday mornings up at Faxon Park Pickleball Courts.

Thank you.

Thank you. So we have a motion to approve this. Was there more discussion?

Ryan. Michelle, I just had one question on how you process payments for the different events at the Senior Center. Sure.

we have a Revenue Handling and Turnover Policy Packet that I'd be happy to email. I didn't bring enough for everybody. This is an example of the envelope that Councilor Hubley spoke of. we have some of those 29 staff, some of the hourly staff are seniors who man our front desk. So as folks come in to check into the senior center, We use a program called My Senior Center, and they have key tags similar to your CVS tag, I guess is the easiest way to describe it, as they Sign in, there's a computer screen with all the activities for each day, and that's why we're able to keep such great numbers, though I do have to say our numbers are probably larger because I'm always chasing people down to check in. as they check in.

If they're attending a class that has a fee, the person at the desk collects the fee. Each class has its own envelope. with the day-date class activity amount collected in signature. And then if there's somebody who doesn't have their $2 for the exercise class, they just make note of it. We're not going to chase anybody down the hallway. for a $2 fee, but we do make note of it because when we reconcile each day. We do a deposit every day. We have sheets, let me pick a Thursday. This day's Thursday, we have sheets like this that we have one for every single day that has the activities of the day with the fee already in because they don't change. number in class, number paid, amount on envelope, and any notes. So we could write, you know, one person, one scholarship. We kind of, I call it a scholarship. when they can't pay it.

The same, so they check the number in class comes right from my senior center. So we log in and we can see how many people actually scanned in for that class. And if there's 25 people, there should be $50 in that envelope. If there's not, we're going to find out why every day. and then the cafe is the best $3 lunch you're ever going to get. But the cafe, we keep $20. free cash or I guess petty cash, starting cash until everything else goes into that envelope at the end of the day. We probably average between 150 and 200 dollars a day in the cafe.

And you do daily deposits?

Did you mention that? We do daily deposit sheet. We bring them to City Hall. twice a week unless any envelope is more than $500 for the day. Not envelope individual, but the deposit for the day is $500. It has to come immediately up. that is a policy in place by the treasurer. I didn't work on these policies by myself. This was a collaboration with the treasurer, the municipal finance director, the outside auditor, and the mayor's office. and much of this started before I was appointed.

Now do you keep track of what events seniors enroll in so you have kind of, have a, an inkling of what are their favorite events?

We do. We do. And I can tell you strength training and chair yoga. at least 60 people. We average 250 people every Tuesday and Thursday. 250 unique individuals. Unique in all senses of the word, but that's 250 different people. They may come in and sign in for more than one event. but 250 and so we do have a chart like this that we can print out right for my senior. And sometimes we try things and they're wonderful and sometimes they're not. and so you won't see it again, but we'll try it. All right, thank you. You're welcome.

If I could just add, Councilor Ryan, if you're not a member and you haven't been going down there, you're missing out.

Especially the dance parties every Wednesday this summer, they're free.

Councilor Jacobs, hang on a second, there you go.

Hi, Mrs. Haley, how are you? Well, thank you. Very good. I just wanted to say you're doing a great job. I've known you for 30 years now.

How old are you, David?

How old am I? But, you know, for those who don't know, she was the recreation, well, she worked in recreation when I was a kid. And, you know, then she became the recreation director. when I found out you were going to Council on Aging, I was sad because I know that you did such a great job. a great job as a rec Councillor when I was a kid and I know that you really loved that job and I didn't see it really at first but you know, working with kids, you know, are really our most vulnerable population. And then, you know, this really now looking back seems like such a great fit because our seniors are really our second most you know a vulnerable population and you know I know a lot of things have happened in the last couple years and I just I just know that everything there is okay and it's gonna be okay. And I've heard great things. I haven't been to the Kennedy Center, since I've taken office, but I have gone down to the House and Community Center.

A lot of the people there also go there and they just say how great it's been the last year and a half, two years. So I just want to thank you so much for everything you're doing.

Thank you, Councilor.

Councilor McGee, did you have something? Oh, did you, Richard? I'm sorry. Forgive me. Ash.

Not a question, Michelle. Thank you. Just some sentiments. You know, the onsite programming is great and It sounds like you've covered a lot of what you do on site. I'm sure there's more you'll probably leave and think of all the things that you could have said, but there's so many good things going on in the program that it sounds like that's a good problem to have. However, the offsite amenities and services and programs that the seniors can take advantage of, too, I wanted to highlight. Not just the travel and the rides to and from Appointments in Boston and back. But also, we collaborated on a number of properties with snow removal this year for seniors and vulnerable seniors that obviously have trouble clearing. and had trouble clearing and potentially people there, it was their first time because we didn't have a storm for so long and now they can't tend to their properties like they did the last time we had a winter like this.

So those services, you know, even just two times in the last week. I've been collaborating with Cheryl in your department, and it's clear that the seniors are lucky to have all of you. So thank you.

Thank you.

Is that it? Councilor McKee, yes. So after I finished, I just realized that I did get an email from someone quite a while ago who was asking if the Senior Center would ever consider allowing credit card use because they just don't carry around cash.

It is a direction that we will go. Right now, we have four decades worth of folks, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Actually, I should say five, We have a couple hundred year olds as well, one that just turned last week, happy birthday. And so our older adults, our oldest of our older adults, still prefer cash. However, we definitely see that coming. When I was the Recreation Director back in 2006 and 2007, we introduced, we were actually the first Holder of an Authorize.net account and spareheaded. We actually went over and trained the college on how to use it and what to do for reconciling with the treasurer's office. it's in my wheelhouse and we will. We are considering a rollout first with the Treasurer's Office for the bigger trips.

There are some, we contract with Royal Tours and Bloom Tours and a few others to run these day trips that are a little bit expensive. So that would probably be the first. Bitt. I don't see anybody using it to buy their $3 lunch, but I think for those larger venues, it would be worth it for sure.

That sounds great. Yeah, and I think the person was actually saying they wished it could be for the $3 things just because some folks aren't carrying around cash. But anyway, thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Thank you, Councilor McGee. Anyone else?

We don't have a motion. Oh, we do. Sorry. I'm just going to take some liberty, Michelle, because you know that I'm in there quite a bit. I think you do an awful lot on relatively modest budget. Ryan for posing the cash reconciliation question, because it is one that I think it's good that you were able to give that answer on the record. And while there may be some people who want to pay by credit card. I mean, most of it is $3, which at the Milton Senior Center, everything's $5, so it's a bigger bargain. So, you know, I think you've done a lot of great things and, you know, There's a really good vibe in that space, and you have a lot of that credit, and your staff. You have wonderful, wonderful staff. So with that, we'll motion to approve. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Wonderful. Thank you very much, Michelle. Thank you. Thank you very much.

All righty. Please do stop by. Pardon me? I said please do stop by. Anyone who hasn't, you'll love it.

Okay, next up we have Commissioner Heinz with the public buildings. Budget on pages 49 and 50. Welcome. Thank you for your patience.

My pleasure. I'm happy to be here, proud of my department and all of my employees and the jobs that we do. Thank you for having me, and happy Pride to those who celebrate. I know the hour is late, but please allow me to very briefly describe our responsibilities and our successes of the Department of Public Buildings. Kind of find it hard to believe, but this July 1st, I'll start my 11th year in this role. It seems like a much shorter time. I think that's because I brought a lot of the cases from the Law Department with me. but I speak tonight on behalf of myself but also on behalf of all the members of the department. I try to insert the word we in these comments rather than I. because it is a team effort. And I know that's kind of cliche, but it is the reality of it. I appreciate the skill, the knowledge, the ingenuity, and the craftsmanship brought to the table. and the support of each one of them, the trades, the custodians, the administration alike.

And I certainly appreciate the confidence and the support of Mayor Tom Koch and of the City Council through the years. I look forward to a robust and positive relationship with this council. There's an old saying, nobody knows what I do until it doesn't get done. I saw that. I actually have it on the wall of my office. I chuckled when I saw it. But I've said this before and I'll repeat it. It sounds kind of strange, but my department rarely provides the stage that most other city departments and operations perform on. We just recently completed about a $2 million structural repair of the Kennedy Center. We all understand how vital that facility is to that department and to the city as a whole. but it had some problems underneath. Fully complete, fully resolved, and the building is good for years to go.

We keep the lights on, we keep the heat on, the AC working, the plumbing flowing, the doors on the hinges, dealing with all the crazy things that happen on an ongoing and daily basis. maintaining the buildings, improving them, and still addressing years of deferred maintenance. We like making them healthier for the occupants. We oversee the building of all new ones, and we opened three out-of-ground new construction buildings in the last 18 months or so. That being the Quincy Public Safety Complex, the Furnacebrook Golf Clubhouse, and the Animal Care Center on Quarry Street. and these follow the recent DeChristophero Center opening and the Southwest Middle School. We've torn down a number of buildings as well. Just today you may have seen the old police station is gone and good riddance. The design and the ongoing construction of the new Squamish School is another, obviously, one of our roles. I'm very proud of it. It's going very well.

I have to thank, again, at every opportunity I can, the neighbors and the residents of Squamish. for their cooperation and understanding of living through it. It's been remarkably positive, notwithstanding the occasional traffic jam on Huckins Avenue. We in the department care for more than 100 structures and buildings, the most significant ones. number above 70. And that's the city hall, Coddington Hall, the police stations, all of the schools, all of the fire stations, the libraries. But there's so many other structures, just the Tide Mill. and other buildings in the DPW in the backyards and all that. There's some departments we cooperate with and co-manage, we'll call it. Those are generally some of the DPW buildings in the Parks Department. But beyond that, we really are it.

For fiscal 2025, our maintenance division received over 27,000, excuse me, 2,700 work orders for repairs, and fiscal 26 is tracking that same number. We have a very talented team of tradespeople and they have seen and done it all for us. There are, of course, many contractual repairs for larger projects and ongoing matters and when we just get too busy to do it all in-house. We have aggressively abated asbestos from our school buildings across the city and from our fire stations. The newer schools, of course, don't have asbestos in them, but the older ones do and has. We've made great progress in abating these situations. I'm an advocate of if you've got to go in to abate a pipe in a room and you're tenting that room off and you're going through all the craziness that that entails, you take every morsel of asbestos out of that room.

You don't ever have to go back. And that's how we've attacked it. In doing that, we have abated all known asbestos out of the 110, 15-year-old Wallace and School. it's all out of the Bernazzani School, it is all out of the Beechwood Knoll School, and we're very near that point, that milestone for Montclair and Stuttgart. Another public health program we continue to advance is improving the quality of the drinking water in our schools, removing the lead from the water. We have expanded this effort to our libraries and our senior center. We started this comprehensive effort at the direction of Mayor Koch some 10 years back, and we continue the drive. While the federal limit for lead in drinking water is 15 pots per billion, no amount of lead is healthy. So we set our goal at zero parts per billion and our own self-imposed cap at one part, excuse me, five parts per billion. That's one third of the federal allowed level.

using both city funding and state grant money, we have been very successful in reducing the lead by changing service lines, re-piping entire buildings, for instance, the Lincoln Hancock School, and by changing faucets and fixtures. But we're not stopping. Keeley. the Mass DEP recently set a voluntary limit of one pot per billion. We are working now to go from our five to the one. And we will achieve that level because no lead is good lead. And our efforts have not gone unnoticed. Quincy has been referenced in presentations and discussions on the topic near and far. We strive to make our buildings more accessible to the people of Quincy and beyond with ADA compliance. Every time we alter something structurally and every time we do an upgrade, it is done with an eye towards making that result accessible.

even if that means a bathroom on the second floor is made handicap accessible when that building doesn't have an elevator because at some point it may have an elevator and then the bathrooms are ready. There's no sense doing those bathrooms twice. We are also responsible for the many Quincy Public Schools students who have IEPs and other higher learning needs accommodations. We implement them, whether it be soundproofing in classrooms, structural modifications, and the like. but our department really goes beyond just the brick and mortar. We funded the startup costs for the community-wide composting and the residential pickup curbside. Then we also funded the expansion of that program recently. the Department of Public Buildings participated in the negotiation and the implementation of the community electric aggregation program that now brings cheaper electricity to all the Quincy residences and businesses that did not opt out.

So the primary providers of the utility supply is this aggregation agreement, and it is significantly lower than the ongoing and current national grid rate. We also went to market and procure all the city's own municipal energy use. In late 2024, we locked in very favorable electric supply rates for all electricity across all departments of the city which is and remains well below the national grid supply rate. Our rate is locked in, guaranteed, no increases for three years. It's not happening with national grid. We have and we continue to develop opportunities for solar energy generation. There are currently 12 buildings with solar PV grays on the roof. Four of these are currently slated for replacement due to warranty repairs. are about to go online with the PV system that we installed above the parking structure at the Quincy Public Safety Building.

and I recently brought to the City Council, which approved and then Mayor Koch signed, agreements for the rooftops all over the new Squamish School. We are in the final negotiations for a solar PV system on the canopies of the two new parking garages currently being constructed in downtown Quincy. We took a step back to further review. I wanted to make sure that that electric generation and the leasing of the space to do that did not complicate our tax exempt bond status. So we're currently engaged with the Municipal Finance Office and Bond Council to make sure we've crossed that T and dotted that I to not face a problem later on. We continue to look for new locations for solar, and we are preparing a multi-site RFP in advance of these systems. Each roof replacement we do, whether the city alone or with the MSBA, is done with an eye towards making that roof solar ready to accommodate a future solar PV system. Sorry, it's late.

Between the Department of Public Buildings and the Quincy Public Schools, we host six solar PV farms, mostly located around the southeastern Massachusetts area. These systems generate clean electricity and save the city a fortune in energy supply costs. We're actively looking for more such opportunities. and while the department is primarily responsible for planning and implementing physical work, we also participate extensively in efforts to fund that work. One such instance has currently just closed the bid, and that's the construction of a community health clinic within the Quincy High School building. We've got the designs done. We've gone to bid. We've got the construction costs in hand. Through efforts that I expanded as a law department and carried with me, we modified a trust of which the city was the beneficiary.

and the court has allowed the direction of those monies to the Manning Community Health Center for the benefit of the medical needs of the residents of Howes Neck. You may remember at one point in time there was a dental clinic in the basement of Allen and Howe School. This clinic at Quincy High will be the next generation of that clinic. It will be more comprehensive, provide services to the students and staff in that building. We also were successful in getting a $200,000 appropriation from Senator John Keenan through his efforts. and Cynthia Siena at the Manning Community Health Center. They funded and advanced additional grant opportunities for another $200,000. So this entire project will be done, will serve the future of the students and staff at Quincy High for years to come with no direct city dollars involved.

We have completed dozens of energy conservation measures that are forecasted to save hundreds of thousands of dollars in energy costs. These include LED lighting replacements, new electrical transformers, and the installation of air source heat pumps, most notable of which, and the most recent, is the heating system for the pool water at the Lincoln Hancock School. That effort alone is forecasted to save the city $80,000 a year in electricity. We, of course, participate with the support of the Council and the MSBA programs, both core and new school programs, and the accelerated pair programs. With the support of the Mayor and the Council over the years, we have participated in 20 MSVA projects to date, with a total project cost of $371 million.

and payments made or expected to be made from the MSBA to the City of Quincy of $183,627,000. Four additional projects are in the pipeline as you know now. We continue to step up our game in seeking funding sources, programs, and grants for work beyond the taxpayers of Quincy. Before I took the helm in public buildings, the department participated in the Korean Community Program and other energy conservation measures. We have redoubled those efforts and have been wildly successful in expanding on those programs and jumping into many more. In the past 18 months or so alone, working in tandem with Jim Scribby and his team in the grants writing department, and with Margaret LaForest in my department, with Margaret leading the charge, with the invaluable support of Dave Scott and others in our department, we have brought back to the city of Quincy a total of $9,919,000.

in grants, AMOCs, rebates, and incentives for works the Department of Public Buildings does. That's $10 million. And we have another $1.2 million in applications currently pending. And we continue to look for more. The last topic I'll address is Massachusetts Contingency Plan, the 21E of the federal Superfund sites. Quincy is an old city, old development. We had a number of sites that were either Quincy impacted or neighbor impacted on Quincy land. Would that be a leaking oil tank, a leaking gas tank in the past, and the such. We have cleared up those sites at Quincy High School, the Wollaston Fire Station, the Intervale Avenue site that's now being redeveloped, the Independence Avenue site that for years was on the city's tax title list but we couldn't foreclose because it was so dirty. It's now clean and on the market.

and more sites, all of which with no significant risks of health to the residents and all without further penalties and fees. So I continue. I'll stop now. And thank you for allowing me to brag about the department.

Thank you, Commissioner.

Okay. Questions? Who wants to start?

Maybe I guess you'll go.

Okay, it'll be me again. Thank you. That was great. Thank you. So I was looking at the list of positions, which is quite long, and just had a couple of questions. So with that many people, and kind of with an eye towards a bit of what I was asking about with the HR, can you talk a little tiny bit about your interviewing practices there?

Okay. My experience with hiring employees, admittedly, many of these, most of these were on board before I took the helm. but I have myself interviewed and hired some of the tradespeople and a number if not more than half of the custodians. Generally, we either have been recommended candidates, have been presented with candidates through the Mayor's Office, or we work closely with the Human Resources Department because there is a link on the city website to available positions and job applications that presidents and others can submit their resume and their CV to. So like in the instance of a custodian, I'll sit as will Vinnie Leone, the supervisor of custodians. We'll meet with them. In January, I was out of town. I delegated to Don Martin. He and Vinny met with them. We checked their backgrounds.

and we recommend them positively or if we don't recommend them to the mayor, who is the appointing authority, not me, then we do background checks on them. They're gonna be in our public buildings, they're gonna be in sensitive areas, they have to pass the CORI checks, the Sexual Offender Registry checks, and they do a pre-employment physical examination. The same thing holds true with the tradespeople. It's funny, for a relatively small department, in a relatively close period of time, we actually had three deaths of active members. So a number of our tradespeople that are in that ranks that I hired or I brought on were lateral transfers from other departments. They were already NCU employees. Some were new, but we followed the same process. We interviewed them. in discussion with the appointing authority, worked with human resources on providing the pool of applicants.

The administrative side, there are a couple that are new since I've taken them out, and they are generally presented to me by the Mayor's Office. We still interview them, check them for their qualifications and the fit for our roles, and then make the recommendation to the Mayor.

Okay, thank you. How many open positions do you have, if any?

currently there's one, it's a custodial position. The position is in the administration building of the DPW, 55 C Street, the David McIntosh building. And that position is actually funded that one position is funded by the Department of Public Works. and I checked and double checked with Commissioner Grazzio so he did have that in his budget that he presented to you.

Right, okay. Thank you. I noticed one of the positions is funded by Quarry Hills.

Yes.

What does that position do?

that is a project manager. It's intended to be across multiple departments, so that's my understanding of why that's the funding line. Again, I'm not the appointing authority and I'm not municipal finance. This is how it was presented to me. That employee is quite valuable to me, very aggressive and very organized in overseeing so many aspects of what we're doing right now. Steamtrap Surveys and Replacements in Other Buildings, a lot of the energy efficiency lighting replacements, helping me with administrative issues. are quite valuable, quite active. And again, I share them with other problems.

but not focused on Corey Hills?

No. It's funded by the revenues out of that account but does not have a role in the operation of Corey Hills.

Okay. What item is that?

Oh, it's not in the budget, okay.

Oh, it's in the list.

The third from the bottom in the employee list.