Needham Select Board, 2/24/26

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Recording in progress.

Good evening and welcome to the Select Board meeting for Tuesday, February 24th. We have one colleague on Zoom tonight and we're going to start as we always do by letting you know that this meeting is being broadcast by the Needham channel for the town's youtube channel and is being broadcast by a zoom and so if there's anyone in the room who is recording I see the Needham observer. I see no one else. Now is the time to let us know. We're going to start. with public comment. So Margaret has sent us notice that you would like to make a comment. So I'm going to invite you up.

This is my husband, Nick King. Order together.

Come on up together. Have a seat in front of one of these microphones or move it over so that it... I'm going to ask you just to start by telling us your names, your address, and then generally speaking, this isn't a conversation, you're just telling us information and we're listening. We're going to give you around three minutes. Okay. Okay, and then we can't wait to hear.

Nick King, and we live at 945 South Street. and I'm here with my wife Margaret Handridge tonight on behalf of the Charles River. We are big users of the Charles River, like I think a lot of people in Needham, which is a river town. We swim in the river in Needham. We canoe on the river. We fish in the river. and back in the day, well I guess today is one of those days when the river is frozen, we used to skate on the river. So we really, and we admire the river. Parenthetically, I'm a member of the Board of Advisors of the Charles River Watershed. And the reason we're here tonight is that we wanted to make the Select Board aware that there is a proposal in front of the Charles River watershed to lower the water quality standard.

The Mass Water Resources Authority.

What did I say?

You said the Charles River Watershed Association.

Excuse me.

I think they're on your side.

and Lowering the Water Quality Standard would enable the MWRA to stop trying to get rid of the combined sewer overflows CSOs which are archaic sewage and water drainage systems that when it rains and it overflows, it puts sewage directly into the Charles River. Now, granted, Needham is above river, but I would like to think that everybody along the river would work together to try to make the river as clean as possible. We wanted to make sure that the Select Board was aware of this proposal and Margaret will tell you more about it.

I think you are aware of it because we sent you a letter on January 26th about this in which we noted that in 2024, for example, about 48 million gallons of CSO overflow went into the Charles, including raw sewage. and the river was deemed unsafe for recreation for 24 days that year. and the reason we wrote you is that we've been informed by the Charles River Watershed Association and also I'm a member of Noanna Garden Club which has quite a number of members in Needham and both organizations are all hopped up about this. And we've been told that it's especially important to get municipal input, and especially from towns that are upriver.

The 10 combined sewer overflows that we're talking about on the Charles are all in Cambridge and Boston. But the river is the lifeblood of our environment, of our ecology, and I think that You don't have to be downriver of an open sewer to care whether we have raw sewage going into the Charles. And so there was supposed to be a vote in November, as I think you're probably aware. And there was such an outcry. including from the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection. And Governor Healey is said to be in favor of shutting down the CSOs as well. But there was such an outcry that they postponed their vote and kicked the can down the road. And I believe they're going to be voting about it at their April 15th meeting.

So now is the time when a letter from the Needham Select Board could really have Impact. I'm not really prepared to give a lot of detailed information, but I just want you to know how much we care. And we don't think we're alone. We think most people in Needham care about this. And the Charles River is, to me, it's part of Needham's very identity as a town. Two of our three sides of our triangular town are the Charles River. and also with the federal government backing away from a commitment to a clean environment, it's all the more important that we do everything we can locally and statewide to maintain a clean environment.

So we're here to make sure you got our message and to ask you whether you will agree to send a letter on behalf of Needham to the MWRA board.

Thank you. We appreciate you coming in. I don't have an answer for you, but it is something that we have been looking into and discussing. So we need some more information about the ramifications of the decision making.

Okay, well, we could help you get it from probably the Mass DEP or Charles River Watershed Association would be best.

We have some feelers out and are collecting that information so that we can assess it. And when and how will we find out what your decision is? I don't know that we have a clear-cut process, but I'll let the town manager weigh in.

Just that if the board's going to vote on any letter, it would have to be on a posted agenda at a future meeting. So if you monitor the agendas, you'd be able to see it there.

We appreciate your listening to us. I'm getting an extremely noncommittal feeling from the Board of Selectmen. which disappoints me.

We're not going to commit to anything right now. This is public comment. We have to assess the entirety of the situation, and that's why we're not committing. So as I said, we i personally have been in touch with the charles river watershed association and we've reached out to our representatives there but we're not going to give you an answer right now okay all right uh will we be hearing back from you or do we have to keep

Bird dogging.

I suggest reaching back out. That's always a good plan. Okay. Yeah.

All right. Well, thank you very much for listening, and I hope you'll do the right thing. We all care about the Charles.

Thank you for coming in.

I don't know about you, but I used to live on the Charles. Boston. Nick lived in Cambridge. Our two sons live in Boston. Probably some of you lived in Boston and Cambridge. Your children do. We all are affected. by Raw Sewage and the Charles. I'm making a note to reach back out to those folks that I contacted.

So it's on the... Thanks so much. It's on the not mental list.

Any information on getting to the right person at the Charles River Watershed, I'd be happy to help.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate both of you coming in. OK. Is there anyone else in the room who is interested in making a public comment this evening? and do we have anyone online who is interested in making a public comment? Okay, fantastic. Then we are going to move along to the first item on our list, which is an application for amendment to an all-alcohol restaurant license for Cook Needham. Come on up. Hey, nice to see you. So I'll just ask you guys to introduce yourself, yourselves rather. And I think this is a change of manager.

Correct. So my name is Diana.

Nice to see you.

Co-owner, good to see you, of Cook Restaurant.

Great. My name is Virginia Chan, co-owner too.

Okay, great. So you've submitted for a change of manager.

um can you tell us a little bit about what you're looking to do yeah so um uh virginia has been she's been working with us at cook she does more of the finance Aspect. So she's usually in the restaurant a couple hours during the week. But now she's going to come in full time with us. She just got certified. and kind of work along with me. I'm usually at the restaurant a lot, 40, 50 hours per week. So I have pretty good background of all the operations and the daily, you know, oversights and familiar with, you know, anything that's going on in the town and with the border health and everything. I'm definitely going to be working with her and kind of supporting her in the tourism engineering of her being the new manager at the liquor license.

Okay. And so when you say certified, you mean TIPS certified? She is, yes. Okay. okay and is all the paperwork in order it is yep okay so then i'll open it up to my colleagues if you have any questions or

I don't have any questions, but you do know the lecture, right, about it is extremely important to us that the bylaw that we have in place be followed and that all the tools that you have, including tools which will automatically check licenses, be used. with regularity, and that there be no underage drinking. So we thank you for ensuring that that does not occur. Right. Okay.

Just a question. Diana, you said that Virginia, you're currently on-site only a couple hours a week, but you would be on-site much more often now.

Yes, I'm going to be more time here, full-time.

Thank you.

I'm always amazed people want to be a manager of a restaurant. I think you realize you're the one on the hot seat. The liquor license is on your back.

Yes.

So please take it seriously. Okay. The consequences are dire if it's not done. So we always want to make sure it is. So good luck to you. You run a great restaurant. Love it. So thank you. I wish you the best.

Thank you. Cathy, anything? no okay no all set thank you um all right so if um and i i see you everywhere doing all the things um so i think you know as my colleagues have said, this is a serious issue. We want to see you here under only this kind of circumstance and not because of a violation.

if there are no other questions then I would welcome a motion Madam chair I move that the select board is local licensing authority approve and sign an application for change of manager for Cook, Needham, 109 Chapel Street, and afford this application to the ABCC for approval.

Second.

Okay. We're going to do roll calls, roll call votes tonight. So I'll start with you, Kathy. Yes. Kevin?

Yes.

Josh? Yes. Marianne? Yes. And I vote yes. Motion passes. All right. Congratulations. Thank you. Look forward to seeing you. Thank you. Okay. At our last meeting, the board held a public hearing from the community regarding a potential pilot to close the at-grade railroad crossing at the Needham Golf Club seasonally from December 1st through March 1st to eliminate that regular train horn sounding. the town manager recommends that that pilot start on December 1st, 2026 pending a finalized agreement with the MBTA and so We heard from the public last week and now we're here to discuss and vote on the pilot. So I'll open it up.

. Just one thing that I was thinking. I think that's subject to agreement with the MBTA and with the golf club as well, right? Both entities are going to need to have some agreement with us for what occurs.

Okay.

Yeah, absolutely. So we'll probably tweak that language just a little bit when we vote. I think the issue all along had been that this this was something that came at the last second there were a number of areas that were not clear when we learned about it shortly before December 1st we've been investigating to understand what those issues are and at this point we're now still not finalized and it's almost March 1st so that was why the town manager recommended that it start next December 1st and meanwhile the work continues through the quiet zone working group about other alternatives for quieting the Hornet, that crossing, and starting to understand what those look like as well. Great.

Anything?

No? Yeah, just one question. Would this agreement with the MBTA and the golf club be annually renewing, or it just goes on in perpetuity?

I would draft it in perpetuity or on some auto renewing basis. I think we have some agreements where it's annual but until somebody Councilor, either party decides to conclude it. either party decides to conclude it. I'll work with town council to I'll work with town council to finalize that.

finalize that.

Thanks.

Yeah, I just wanted to say I strongly support finding a permanent solution to silencing the horns as they go through the golf course. And while we look for that permanent solution, I strongly support having this seasonal closure starting on December 1st.

Great. Yeah, I think I think we all. understand the burden that the noise puts on our residents. We are residents, too, and we agree. So looking forward to being able to provide three months of quiet and or of fewer horns and yeah fewer horns right and um and glad that were able to get this done for the next year.

Just one question. In the motion, it says to approve a pilot. Is this a pilot or is this a... Program, Policy. Is it still a pilot if we're doing it?

Well, I think the plan is still to work on a more permanent solution. Yeah, true that. So in the interim, this is. this is a pilot, right?

Yes, and the board could at any point vote that it is no longer a pilot. Okay.

That's what we're calling it for now.

Madam Chair, I move that the Board vote to approve a pilot to close the at-grade railroad crossing at the Needham Golf Club seasonally from December 1 through March 1, beginning December 1, 2026, subject to a final agreement with the MBTA and the Needham Golf Club.

Second. Okay, any other discussion? Kathy? Yes. Kevin?

Four, that's a golf term.

Oh, Lord. Josh. Yes. Marianne. Yes. And I vote yes.

I'm not sure how we score a four, but that's OK.

Yeah. OK. Yay. The motion passes. Thank you, everyone. OK. So we're going to move along then to our next agenda item. which I'm going to turn it over to the town manager to speak and I guess invite town council to join us.

you're on the agenda so yes thank you madam chair we are very happy to have added this agenda item to bring to open session proposed property acquisition of Zero Cartwright Road. And as outlined in the updated materials in your packet, The proposal is to purchase approximately 10 acres of open space for a purchase price of $800,000 and a portion of that to be funded through Community Preservation Act funds. you have two votes before you tonight one related to procurement requirements and the second to fully execute the purchase and sale agreement which i'm going to ask if town council could just walk us through that agreement

Sure. So the purchase sale agreement lays out the terms between the seller and the town. purchase price is, as Katie said, $800,000 and also lays out what needs to happen between now and closing. in order for the closing to actually occur. those things that need to happen are as follows. We need a vote from the Conservation Commission to authorize expenditure of $500,000 of the purchase price. We need to go to the Community Preservation Committee to apply for the remaining $300,000 of the purchase price under the Community Preservation Act's open space funds. We need to go to town meeting to get the appropriation under the CPA.

after securing, hopefully, the CPC's approval of that $300,000, go-to-town meeting, appropriate the money, also approve the acquisition of the property, and after all of that happens, we need to prepare what we call an approval not required plan for filing with the planning board to create the lot that the town is going to acquire. that's because the lot that we are purchasing or hoping to purchase does not exist yet as a matter of record. It needs to be created. Currently there's a 12 acre Parcel, and the town is committing to prepare the plan that will divide it into a two-acre portion and a 10-acre portion. 10-acre portion is what will be acquired by the town.

once that plan is prepared we need to go to the planning board for their approval of the plan once they approve the plan it needs to be recorded and after all of that happens we will i think be ready to close on the acquisition So the purchase and sale agreement is a number of pages, much of which is boilerplate for this kind of conveyance. But I think the most important terms that are interesting to this particular conveyance is the purchase price and the and other contingencies that need to happen in order for the closing to happen.

Madam Chair, I do just note that Dave Harrer is in the room as I believe as chair of ConCom. and perhaps also in his role on CPC. So he is listening to the conversation tonight.

Yeah, and we'll be here, up here, discussing it with us shortly.

Just a final comment that I probably should have started with. This parcel is surrounded by three sides by Ridge Hill. So this is kind of prized open space that the town already controls under conservation commission. And so this parcel really is kind of a missing tooth of the property that we already own and that is well used and loved in town. and this parcel has been identified for many years by the Conservation Commission in the town as one that if we had the opportunity to acquire it that we would try to do so. So I just wanted to share that context as well.

And just to note that the funds that we would use to purchase this property are dedicated to the purchase of open space land and cannot be used for anything else.

it's appropriate any other and we'll we'll split the parcel right it'll be the the pork chop yes as we look on the map we're

You're going to need to explain that comment.

On the map, on exhibit A, there is the, it fronts Cartwright, but the parcel behind it is what we're buying.

The parcel to be created behind it. To be created. narrow uh handle yeah on the fronts on cart right that will be retained by the current property owner and the 10 acre uh portion in the rear which doesn't front on cart right will be acquired by the town okay so the back tent yeah Thank you.

I want to thank Town Council and the Town Manager during this negotiation. I think it resulted in a really beneficial deal for the Town. Initially in these motions, I had thought that the first motion had to happen before the second, 30 days prior, but upon advice from town council, I'm prepared to vote tonight.

Great. Kathy, anything?

I just would say I think this is a wonderful opportunity. And these things don't come along very often. And when you think that it's embedded in Rich Hill and can provide more recreational space for people to walk, et cetera, and to enjoy. that it's a wonderful opportunity and it will not have a great financial impact because this money has been dedicated specifically to buying open space so it doesn't involve any debt. So I think this is a great opportunity.

Yeah, in fact, I understand it's been on the top of the conservation committee's wish list for a long time. So glad that this was able to happen. All right, Marianne, anything else? All right, in that case, I'd welcome a motion.

Madam Chair, I move that the Board vote to determine that in the case of the proposed acquisition of a portion of 0 Cartwright Road Assessors Parcel 219-0019 containing approximately 10 acres advertised will not benefit the town's interest. because of the unique qualities and location of the property needed. This determination is made on the basis that the property is large, currently undeveloped, and can be used as conservation land and open space and is contiguous to the town's existing Ridge Hill reservation and should be a comma there and can be added to the property once acquired and that the board vote to execute the purchase and sale agreement with Marjorie Pine.

Second. Okay, so we'll do a roll call vote and we'll go to Kathy first. Yes. Kevin?

Aye. Yes.

Aye.

Yes. And the motion passes. Awesome. Thank you both. This is really exciting.

Thank you, Chris.

All right. So having just voted on this, we're going to invite the CPC chair, vice chair. Director of Administration of Public Works. Maybe not. Maybe she's online.

Yeah, she's online.

And Celia Simchak, possibly online as well. Okay, excellent. Hang on one second while I scroll endlessly to find the right spot. Dave Herrer, Chair of the CPC, Maureen Callahan, Vice Chair, CPC, and then we have joining us online, Celia Simchak, the Assistant Director of Finance, and Michelle Provencal-Jones, the Director of Administration, Public Works. Thank you for joining us. And I will let you guys take it from here.

All right, thank you. Before we get started, I just want to say about the previous agenda. I'm very excited that this is finally happening. And I want to thank town manager and town council because this project's it's been kicking around for like 10 years and then all of us and it kept changing and then all of a sudden bam it was there and we went to the town manager and they really jumped on it and made it happen. I think that's great. I also want to thank Deb Anderson, our conservation director, because she was dogging this for many years. So again, thank you. OK, so with regard to the CPC, this season hasn't been as exciting as last season.

We only had three applications and one Tentative placeholder application which finally at least partially came to fruition and there still might be others something other coming but Anyway, the three applications were from Park and Rec for the Elliott school playground and field. Reconstruction from Park and Rec for the Needham Disc Golf feasibility study and another application from Needham Housing Authority for Seabeds Way. I guess we should start with the appropriation article. It's listed in the you know, the fact that was sent to you all.

CPC this year is getting about, I think it's $4.2 million, about $4 million or a little less than $4 million from the surcharge. and then another 300 and some thousand from the match. So the total is like 4.2 million. Do you remind us what the current balances are in each of these funds? Yeah. And I know Cecilia had put forth quite a detailed memo on that. So if you have some detailed questions, maybe she can answer those. in terms of the balances on our reserves we had zero dollars in a community housing reserve because last year was a big draw on that we had about sixty thousand in the

historic reserves, and the open space reserves, we had about $3.3 million. 3.3? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

and then if you add it all together, at least in terms of open space, which is the biggest The appropriation would be the 10 or 11% that we legally have to apply would be about 3.7 million round numbers.

Sorry, is that the General Reserve you said?

No, the Open Space Reserve. Open Space, yeah. Yeah. And what we do with the the other money depends on you know how we choose to assign it to any of these applications all this year and in Cecilia's memo she put out various scenarios that would show you know if we applied the money or where it would come from and what would be left in the reserves. If you want to dig into that further, I suggest taking a look at that memo.

Just one more question. The community preservation reserve, the general one, do you have the balance of that? The community? So that's the second line here in the appropriation.

Yeah, there was nothing in that reserve. All the money that was left over was CPA free cash. Okay, thank you. Okay, so any more questions on the budget? All right, moving forward. First project that we looked at was the Elliott School playground and field renovation. They were looking for approximately $3 million. This would be recreation category. The scope of the work would be to redo the playground at the Elliott School. especially improving the subsurface, which is below standard. It's a big safety issue. They're proposing to put in like a flowable fill

which is the current safety standard for playgrounds in Massachusetts in particular. They were going to buy a bunch of new equipment, especially equipment that is accessible, as we discussed quite a bit in our meetings. accessible for individuals in wheelchairs or other accessibility features. And then they were going to redo some of the existing playground equipment. So that was a big part of it. The second part would be to redo the fields, which were in pretty poor shape. They have drainage issues and whatever. And the initial application specified artificial turf for the fields. Unfortunately, that's not a category that's fundable by the CPC, by legislation.

And also the $3 million, if you looked at our budget, it would be a hard stretch to kick in $3 million. So at their presentation a few weeks ago, the Park and Rec Department proposed maybe a phase structure, excuse me, a phase project to do maybe a playground first and it feels later. After that meeting, we proposed a bunch of questions to kind of fine tune what the scope actually would be. At this point, we haven't received and the final scope or revised application from Park and Rec. I think that generally the committee favorably views this project. It's a needed project, but we're waiting for more detail on exactly what is being proposed.

Can you remind us when the vote takes place? Like, when are these decisions being made?

Well, we have a public hearing on the 11th. March 11th. March 11th. OK. And then a week after that, we're going to have our vote.

Okay, and so the the attachment that's in the packet that lays out like various iterations of how you might distribute this money is based on

It was based on the original $3 million. I think we're going to have a meeting on the 4th. Okay. Next week. And incidentally, you know, we're going to be discussing the open space project at that meeting as well. So, you know, we'll try to sort out you know, how we're going to divvy up the money, or at least from what fund. And of course, Cecilia is the guru of that, and she's always helpful in that regard. But right now, without really knowing what the specific project is, we can't go any further.

How many more school playgrounds have to be redone? Is this the last one?

Oh, gosh. I don't really know.

Okay. Okay.

I would say off the top of my head, I actually don't think we have poured in place in the majority of them, that we do not yet have poured in place. We do at Sunita. Mitchell? The Newman is requested for funding this year. Okay.

Mitchell was just done, no?

I don't think so.

I might also add Needham, Little League. I was hopeful of using the reconditioned field at Elliott. The field... I think is in pretty bad shape. We've received a bunch of public support letters on the project.

All right, so that's the project, but we'll wait to hear kind of what details come in from Park and Rec and then what you all decide.

Yeah, and we can send you a summary of what the final revisions are.

Chair, I would say just my sense is I'm certainly generally supportive of the project and I look forward to understanding what exactly they're asking for cost-wise. Yeah, absolutely.

and I guess I would say understanding the difference in cost between the one phase versus two phase is also important.

Well, at the presentation a couple of weeks ago, there was a sort of a brief discussion of that, and they put forth a project. Total project in two phases that was maybe $3.4 million. It split 50-50, like 1.7 for phase one, 1.7 for phase two. but would it be less if it were all in a single phase? One would think so, yeah. Only because it's two construction mobilizations from that point of view.

We're talking about the playground and the ball field. They are actually two fairly separate kinds of projects.

Yeah, I mean, that would be a logical split in the project.

And they're actually different views. Vendor types, frankly, when you look at that.

Different departments within the town as well. There is a year of escalation in something if something's deferred.

And I'd also add that there was a big desire to complete the project over the summer. So the bigger the project, the more risky it would be in that regard. And so that's another potential advantage of splitting the project. So I'm pretty confident that that will end up with a split project. But again, I haven't seen the details yet.

Will those be available at your next meeting? When will we be able to see those details?

Well, we've asked for the details by the end of this week, actually, because we want to discuss it at our next meeting.

And you would expect them to be available certainly before the public hearing that will match the project that's going forward. It has to be. Thank you.

All right, so that is project number one. Project number two?

Oh, yeah. Do you want to talk about that?

uh golf yeah the disc golf feasibility and design it's something that's been in play for a while they've already had um consultant that came in and determined you know went to both ridge hill and the town forest to Scope that out, see if it was workable, if it would make any sense at all. And they both have limitations. I mean, they were just different parcels that had, you know, either water or, you know, they didn't want to do too much clearing on either of those lots, understandably. We don't want to see that either. So I think they were both viable options, but both had issues. And so they really want to open this up and have them look at other locations to see if it might be something that would require you know get less cutting wouldn't have water to contend with might be you know there's concern about both properties being used by the public? I mean, a lot of people walk and bike, especially at the Town Forest.

Is there someplace else that might not have that same level of usage that would be potentially disrupted or, you know, trying to use these parcels for too many things. So they're going to look at, I think, believe they plan to look at two other sites. We don't know what those are yet. I don't know that they know what they are. They need to sort of fan out and look, but I think they want to find the best possible location to make this project move forward. So that's kind of what we know at this point.

Okay. Let me just add the Last year, the Needham Golf Club or Golf Association, which I think is sort of an ad hoc group, came to the town and asked if they could do a little study. They did like a one day study and they looked at Ridge Hill and the town forest. Rich Hill they didn't like because there's a lot of poison ivy in the spot they were looking at. Town Forest, they got some pushback from some of the users there. And so on that basis, I think they in concert with Park and Rack, decided to open up the study. They're asking for $50,000, which I think is a reasonable amount to do what they're going to do. We had given them some feedback.

and we asked them to make sure that the study would include you know looking at the butters and neighbors, input from them, considering the other uses of whatever spaces that they were considering to make sure they consult with the conservation commission about any issues conservation issues and any property that might be under the jurisdiction of the conservation commission to look at the impact of removal of any trees. You know, that's a very sensitive issue in town, as we all know. we don't want that to be an issue or a big issue and then finally uh parking okay yeah right that's a big deal so hopefully uh those will be part of their scope of work okay

So the scope is for those points at which site, both, or just time?

For their study. I mean, I think we haven't seen a detailed scope of work. My understanding is this study would include Ridge Hill, Town Forest, and maybe a couple other spots around town. And we'll try to pull everything together, hopefully with a recommendation.

Great. Questions?

So when you talk about removing trees, How will that be quantified in the study? How detailed? Because people get very detailed about trees.

Yeah, that's a good question. I don't think it could be very detailed. I do think that depending on what spot they finally recommend, they would be able to make a qualitative judgment as to removing trees. They, in general, claim that removing mature trees is not what they're looking for. Disc golf likes to be in an arboreal environment with mature trees. They might be removing some smaller trees or whatever. So that would just be one of the factors. I would imagine for like a $50,000 study that there would be a matrix, basically, that would compare the various sites.

On the other hand, being from the Conservation Commission, I would look at things very closely because this sport requires like 30 acres. for a full 18-hole course. And so that's a lot of land. Yeah.

And it has to be compatible with other uses as well.

Hopefully. I mean, I don't know of any property in Needham that could solely be used as a disc golf course.

But I mean, that's... Maybe it has to be nine holes and not 18.

whatever you know those are the kind of things that would be you know the previous study that they did you know really they didn't have a lot of time whatever and they didn't have a lot of money to do it and so I think by by awarding the Park and Rec, this money, they'll go to one of the on-call consultants and hopefully they'll do a thorough job.

Right, but given that Those are the two reasons that they gave for needing to look at additional spaces. Presumably they're factoring that into their feasibility. You know, removing trees and having enough space and compatibility with other So it sounds like they are looking at that and will get some information about it when they come back with real suggestions.

Yes, that's the plan.

OK. Good. and the other question that i anticipate is how much since this is feasibility how much would construction cost you don't need to answer now well no i they did give us an estimate i mean that's the good news you know the disc golf

It doesn't require a lot of construction. Basically, you would have a pad, like a concrete pad for, they call it the T, and then somewhere downstream you'd have a basket. Yeah, that's it. So they were talking maybe $300,000.

Yeah, I think there's a design... Feature. They have designers who make these courses, so they're interesting. And that's probably the greatest expense, I would imagine.

Yeah, it's sort of like construction of a trail, really. I mean, I would put it in that level of complexity.

Okay. All right, super. So that was project number two. And project number three, preservation of Seabed's Way.

Yeah, this is an interesting project. The request was for around $800,000 to be refined because they're moving from a 25% engineering completion estimate to a 50% estimate. We haven't seen the 50% estimate. It's not anticipated to be much different. So they're requesting $800,000 to replace all the roofs on the Seabeds property. There's four buildings. They did not include this in their proposal last year because they didn't have to. it wasn't required as part of the 20-year look ahead in terms of capital improvements that they needed to kind of get all their grants together and so this year

There was a study about putting in photovoltaic system on the roofs and they talked to a bunch of vendors and you know they worked out a couple preliminary deals. They found one they liked and basically the vendor for the photovoltaics don't want to put and the system on an existing roof that might have to be replaced midway through the lives of the photovoltaic system. The photovoltaic system has maybe 25, 30 year life. the roofs typically are like a 25-year life the current roof is halfway through its useful life so it's got another maybe 10 to 12 years to go and so um

the Needham Housing Authority decided that the best course of action would be to put on a new roof now, put have the photovoltaic system put in and be guaranteed by the vendor. Because leakage is a big issue with putting these systems on. And they decided that would be the... The best way to go. Okay.

Great. And this amount doesn't capture the solar panels, right?

The deal with the solar would be like a lease kind of arrangement, where they would and so forth, you know, purchase or install the equipment and then sell the Needham Housing Authority at a pre-agreed rate. They have like a draft agreement that we reviewed. We do have some outstanding questions. for the Needham Housing Authority related to that agreement as far as how the financial aspect works. But right now it seems to make sense.

So I'm a little skeptical of this. It's not part of the layer cake that we've been talking about, about enabling Preservation and Enhancement of Housing. It's a new request specific to the solar panels. I guess you've done your due diligence that it's eligible, but given the limited funds we have, I guess I would prefer to have housing funds go to initiatives that are necessary for housing itself.

I guess, what are your thoughts? For housing itself, I mean, the whole premise behind the Seabeds Cook project, if you remember last year, The initial request was to upgrade Seabeds and Cook. So the money is going into housing. with a further advantage is that it would free up these so-called Faircloth units, which would then be applied to the other project, the Linden. Project. And so there was a big financial benefit for doing that. And also, Seabeds and Cook were both in some in some areas in poor condition. And so then they, because of available funds, they cut back the scope of the project to just the seabeds part.

The Cook part would come later. Right, so I'm saying, like, you know, this $800,000, because they had to cut back on Cook, this could be saved for a future Cook project. Absolutely, yes.

And you know, you're not the first person who's raised that concern.

and do we know with implementation of a solar array on these buildings I assume that that would contribute to a reduced maintenance carrying cost for the life of those

Oh yeah, well, it would contribute to lower utility costs. And there was an estimate based on that.

I'm assuming the $800,000 would probably be part of a play to get lower utility costs that would be beneficial to Neem Housing Authority.

Right, we've asked them for like a more detailed analysis of... Yeah, where's the return on investment?

Yeah, where's the return on investment?

like the net present value. I mean, there's a number of ways of doing it. We haven't received that yet. And that's an important consideration. They also got some state grants for energy efficiency and all that.

That would contribute to the cost of the panels?

Potentially, yes.

Okay.

Oh, thank you.

Hi, Cecilia. Hi, I just wanted to add a little additional information regarding the seabed's way. While the solar panels are definitely a bonus, there is a need to replace them due to water infiltration. It is now part of a revised layer cake that they are sharing with us.

So the roof is leaking.

So the roof is leaking. Yes. We should do this.

I'm sorry?

We should do this.

I'd like to see the revised layer cake because I haven't seen that yet. Cecilia, is that information from the teach shock?

Yes, I can pass that on.

Yeah, because we haven't seen it yet. But yeah, that's good information.

So it sounds like what you're presenting to us are potential projects that are in the process of being vetted. Nobody has seen this information yet, but we're expecting it all. And so, of course, we will vet it and then we will look at it as well.

We have a bunch of outstanding questions. But again, I think the committee is very interested and concerned about housing, affordable housing, and so we would generally a few things in a favorable manner as long as the details work out.

OK. All right. So more to come is what I'm hearing. Great.

Marianne? this is interesting because I you know I understanding the finances behind it I think will be important and none of that was in the memos that we received so I think certainly town meeting will be interested in being clear about what that The other concern that I have is learning that a roof that's halfway through its useful life is leaking. Wright raises some other elements of concern because if we put in another roof that starts leaking halfway through and it's got solar on top of it, that's even more complicated. So we just need to understand kind of how we got here and where we're heading, I think. I mean, one would think there'd be a Warranty on a roof. One would think that there would be something. It just feels like we are going to need more information because certainly questions will be asked. For sure.

Okay, so more to come on that. And then do we want to talk about this purchase of open space that we just discussed?

Yeah, I can say a few words. We had a heads up about potential open space projects. First it was one. We got a placeholder from the parking rack, and then another one developed. and so we've discussed the general concept of some applications coming in to the CPC late for these types of projects. And the committee is very open to meeting on an expedited basis. to get these things reviewed and hopefully approved. And as a matter of fact, we're meeting on the 4th and we're going to be discussing the

I'm assuming that we'll be getting the application.

First thing in the morning.

It's runny. Again, we haven't discussed these things in any detail because of the confidentiality, but now we're ready to move forward. And I would also add that this Thursday, At our Conservation Commission meeting, we have this Cartman Road project on the agenda, and we'll be hopefully voting on that. to transfer money from the Conservation Trust Fund for this project. And we had previously had a conversation with under executive session with town council and basically explained what was going on to everybody on the commission. And everybody was favorable there. So I don't anticipate any problems there.

Anything else that we need to cover? Just appreciation for moving things along so quickly, and I just put March 4th in my calendar, so I look forward to the discussion.

Can I just ask one sort of procedural question? We have a placeholder for purchase of open space. Do we need more than one placeholder?

There's two in the draft warrant. Okay.

So at some point these will align if in fact they come to fruition.

don't really need a placeholder for the CPC.

Warrant needs the placeholder.

The warrant needs a placeholder. CPC placeholder was a heads up.

CPC is super flexible and awesome. The warrant less so.

Yeah, we understand that.

Great. All right. Fantastic. Thank you to both of you for all the work that you're putting into this. And thank you to you guys online as well, Michelle and Celia. We'll look forward to hearing more.

And I suppose you're just as happy to have a boring year after last year.

Well, as a matter of fact, I think this year is starting to get a little more interesting.

It is. It was starting out really like, wow, this is so easy.

Yeah, and then tomorrow we meet with the FinCom, and that's always a lot of fun, right?

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, so we're going to move along to the town manager's, well, to the town manager to tell us a whole bunch of things. Town manager's report, but... and a number of papers.

Wonderful. The first item, is Great Plain Avenue markings improvements. So this is an update. We are resurfacing the portion of Great Plain Ave. between Harris Ave and the Dedham town line. And over the summer, the director of public works had come to the board to share some thoughts around what the markings would be when after the resurfacing was done would go back down. We hadn't updated you since the summer, but we are, though we just got through a blizzard, we're finalizing our plans for the next construction season, including this project. So I wanted to come just give an update on and so forth. The updated recommendation for continue the road narrowing that we've already done on the previous corridor of Great Plain Ave, kind of heading closer into the center.

So there'd be the double yellow lines down the corridor. The edge lines or fog lines on the right would move in right now throughout the length of this corridor. The width of the travel lane varies quite a bit. along that segment. So we'll bring the edge lines in to 10 or 11 feet. That in and of itself does two things. It hopefully will calm traffic and reduce some speeding because people visually feel like they are in a narrower space. but it also will make the shoulder wider in a lot of areas. And in the shoulder, we are going to leave the shoulders blank so there won't be additional markings as originally proposed. There will be improvements to the sidewalks markings and all of the existing parking will remain. and the parking that's in the commercial area will be formalized. So kind of hatch marks right now.

Everyone knows there's parking there, but we'll have just the formal kind of hatch marks that you can see out on Chapel Street as an example. so that's our plan for this quarter and if at any point the town or the board wants to come back and add dedicated bike lanes to those kind of canvases that we're going to leave blank on the to the right of the edge lines, we can come back and discuss that. Happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Maria. So I found Mr. Bulger's note emailed to us today very informative. And having been the person who worked with the creation of the MPCC and the chartering of them, seeing the information from, I don't remember anymore, 2002 or you know 2011 all things that predated certainly my time on this board was kind of fascinating and were not pieces that I was aware of even having signed the plan that we did in 2017. I have a number of thoughts. Certainly, I understand that neighbors were caught by surprise when we planned to put bike lanes in there. I think standardizing the width of the lanes to create more space is a very important first step. It seems to me that we need to sort of step back, and maybe the MPCC can help us to do that,

and really post what the plan is for bike lanes townwide. You know, the places where that has already been identified as places that would be desirable Thank you so much for joining us. and we need to do a better job of making them visible so that when we get an opportunity like this we might be able to take advantage of. We're stuck between a little bit rock and a hard place right now and it's not permitting us to move forward to create safer modes of transportation in places where we do have citizens and children who are biking, for example, to school along that path and we would want them to be safe. So it was interesting. I definitely support narrowing the lanes. I think it's a missed opportunity.

I understand that the folks who live there are concerned that on the rare occasions that they have people parking in front of their houses, they want people to be able to do that. But when I drive down that street, that isn't a normal condition. I just observe. So you need to think about all that. How do we make that more visible to people that they are in a location where this is an expectation of something we would like to make happen?

Yeah. And I agree. I would say There is a large contingent of residents who would like to have bike lanes. And I know that the MPCC has worked with, I think, MAPC. to to establish a bike plan for the town. And so I think some folks are concerned that we're just going to be adding bike lanes everywhere, kind of willy nilly. And I think having that bike plan and having it be public and available and holistic will help to reduce anxiety about every street being taken over by bikes. just you know unlikely certainly but I think knowing where there is a bike spine

right would be helpful information not only for residents in the town but for the select board as well so hopefully we can move forward kind of with a more Planned, Plan. And Kathy, you have your hand up?

Yes, I just wanted to say that I think that the plan that the town manager has outlined is a good one. It accomplishes a lot of things. It will slow traffic, which is good. It will create a wider shoulder which will make things more comfortable for bikers and at the same time it will not take away parking so i find it to be a good solution thank you um

I agree with Kathy. I look forward to seeing the proposed bike plan. I think there'll be a lot of inputs on what it looks like and what the criteria are. I think in this case in particular, One of the concerns was if you have bike lanes, it necessarily prevents parking adjacent to residences. That's what I said. Exactly. So I'm sorry for repeating. so there are always competing needs and competing interests and so that's I think what the town has struggled with a lot in the past so it's not going to get easier but I think it's good to take it on

And I guess, you know, I come with a perspective on that as somebody who lives on a main road. And I recognize that guests in my house either park in my driveway or around the corner on a street. you know so to some extent that that is the way that it works I think often when you're on a main road like this but yes yeah I think this is um I think

This is a good plan. It's good that we have the traffic calming. I think the great plan to have in this corridor is a bit... it's really fast and very, very far too wide. And so I love the wider shoulders. I do have a sense that we should stick with the complete streets policy. And this would be a great place to put it in place. We have a school, a commuter rail stop. Well, it connects to Barmeadow and it connects to St. Sebastian's. and this would be a great place to do it and that we make bike infrastructure work here would be wonderful. I think we'll be coming back to it for a bike lane, but for right now, like this this is a working plan and I like that the shoulders are wider because it allows bicyclists to ride safely all right so um

Anything else? This is not up for a vote. This is just discussion.

Yeah. Can I move the consent agenda?

Why sure. Is there a second for the consents?

Second.

All right. We'll vote by roll call. Cathy? Yes. Kevin?

Aye.

Josh?

Yes.

Marianne? Yes. And I vote yes. Excellent. So the next item from the town manager is the town meeting warrant update.

Great. This item just will keep coming up on your agenda. So I'll just note changes from your last meeting, which there aren't many. Largely, we just keep doing cleanups, technical changes, more accurate summaries. I will note the there's added detail on the article about rescinding prior borrowing authorizations. We're recommending one rescission the 2018 Annual Town Meeting had authorized $645,000 in borrowing for RTS property improvements. We're able to now close that project out and rescind a recommended $55,000 in authorizations. So that's always great to come in and under budget. Two notes not reflected in the warrant, but of note, the Human Resources Advisory Committee met last night.

They make the recommendation for the article for elected officials salaries. So I'll be inserting the figures that they voted at their meeting last night, which would be for the select board chair maintaining the current stipend, $1,800. for other select board members maintaining the $1,500 per year and then the town clerk salary, $1,100 per year. $136,994. That's a 3% increase over the current FY26 salary for that position, and that's commensurate with the committee had previously agreed to align the town clerk's position with our compensation and classification Matrix. And so that position is a grade 12. And this is a top step of grade 12 with a 3% increase over this year.

So I will insert those amounts. You'll see that at your next meeting. and just to let the board know that we have submitted free cash to the Department of Revenue and awaiting their recertification or their certification of that so we'll be answering any questions they have and hopefully we'll be able to Well, I'll let you know when we get a final sign off on that from DOR.

Are you able to say the amount that you submitted for?

No, because I don't have it in front of me. I'm sorry. But I'll follow up with the board. Yes.

Okay, so going on to discuss the preliminary special town meeting warrant articles.

Great.

the board will be opening the special time meeting warrant at your next meeting and so I just wanted to give you a sense of some articles that you'll see on there. First, the PEG appropriation, so funding we get for public education and government programming. that we have to have meaning appropriate back out to the our cable provider. if there's any line item transfers that are needed for FY26 budgets and any unpaid bills we'll have placeholder articles for those the planning board had asked that the large house zoning articles be moved to the special so you'll see those there I had a request from Health and Human Services. They have a revolving fund. for the public health division specific to immunizations.

And so we use that fund in order to purchase vaccines on the front end. And then when we get Health Insurance payments for those. We are able to put that revenue in the revolving fund. So we'll be bringing a proposal forward to the board to change the scope a little bit to allow public health to use that revolving fund for also Levy, Levy, Levy, Levy, Levy, Levy, Narcan trainings and CPR trainings that we do quite a bit of. So more to come on that, but that'll be a placeholder at this point. and then a placeholder if any funds are available and recommended for the capital equipment fund. And as always, I think there'll be some articles in the annual town meeting that need more time that you'll see shift over.

Okay, thank you. And now... all the leftovers.

I have to say, just start with a huge thank you. We just made it through another I'm not even sure at this point, 18 plus inches. I think there were parts of the state that got much more of a brunt of it, but Needham certainly got walloped and thank you to the community. I heard from DPW and Police and Fire that people really heeded the warnings and stayed home and stayed off the road. And that really is meaningful. But a huge thank you to our Department of Public Works team and our contractors. They did an excellent job. Again, I'm very little sleep. So the two public service announcements I'll make about storm cleanup is that hauling will take a bit. Our folks are resting tonight. We're going to haul. This is kind of clearing out the business areas, Needham Center and the Heights. The first haul will be Wednesday night into Thursday, so on the overnight.

And then the second haul that we're going to need to do is still to be determined sometime this weekend. We're monitoring more snow tomorrow and Thursday. So our staff will have to work that as well. That's why we're kind of waiting to decide when the second haul will occur depending on if we end up with plowable snow. and then also know about sidewalks. I saw the crews out there today. They start from the schools and go out, but it'll probably take us the rest of this week to get to all the sidewalk school routes to clear those. appreciate everyone's patience and go sledding.

Can you remind us when the snow is hauled from the parking spaces and so on, where it's put in the short term, where does it go again?

We store it at the RTS. We have a snow farm up there.

If you've ever seen it, you should go one night with DPW. It is astounding to watch.

yeah it's amazing and I did ask in the last day or two did we still have enough room from the January storm and now and DPW said yes we have a DeFazio lot is our second snow farm if we need it but it doesn't sound like we do

All right. Fantastic.

Two other items of quick note. I want to celebrate the public health division. They are now officially accredited. So there's a national public health accreditation board. the Public Health Division and the Board of Health has had this as a goal for nine years to get accredited. And so this is a huge undertaking. They meet Levy, Levy, Levy, Levy, Health Departments are eligible to apply for accreditation. But in Massachusetts, we're now joining only four others that have accomplished this. So the State Department of Public Health, Boston, Cambridge, and Worcester, and now Needham. So yeah, it's really it's amazing. So we certainly punch above our weight class and good job to the whole team.

I feel healthier already.

Yeah. Yeah. And lastly, just to put on the board's radar, one item that I've been working on with the town of Wellesley For those of you who don't know, the Sunita Williams Elementary School, if you're behind the school, it actually backs up to a parcel of and Water that the town of Wellesley owns within the town of Needham. And so we have a license agreement in place that was executed when Sunita was being built that allows us to use a portion of their Land where we have basically half of a field that crosses the jurisdictional boundaries and then some walking trails up in the back that are actually on Wellesley Wells Lease Property. So we had a 10 year license agreement in place to allow Needham to use the land in that way. We blinked and 10 years went by. So I've been talking with them about renewing that as is.

They came back and asked, if a permanent easement would be a better mechanism to have this agreement kind of put in place for the longer term and so where we have landed is We are working on executing a one-year renewal so that we can just dig into the conversation about a permanent easement. So no planned changes in how we're using it. The partnership and the relationship is working well, and we appreciate the use of their land, but I just wanted that to be on your radar. And that's it.

okay um so i don't think there's any we don't have an agenda item for board reports so i don't know if anyone's done anything that bears mentioning before we adjourn? We have one more item. You do have board discussion? Yes, you're right. I saw open session minutes and read executive session. So forgive me. So we do have some open session minutes that we were going to discuss to discuss some proposed revisions. And everyone saw the draft minutes in the packet. So do you want to, I don't know who wants to get into this.

I'm happy to take it since I asked for this to be a discussion item. I think it's worth taking a pause for a moment here before just moving forward with these minutes because there are a variety of changes that have been recommended to these minutes after they were drafted. And I think we need to go back and say what is the purpose of our minutes. I would generally say that the purpose of our minutes is to track general board discussion and to document the vote. And most importantly, the vote needs to be accurately documented. In general, I would observe that our minutes are generally longer than minutes I would tend to write. certainly in a corporate environment, less is more when it comes to minutes and good governance. So these are already more expanded than they would typically be.

My concern actually in looking at these particular minutes is that they have been added to by a board member. And that board member has added their particular perspective on these discussions. So when one reads the recommended changes, those recommended changes privilege a particular voice on the board and in fact one could be forgiven for thinking that no other board members in fact commented. on these items. One could think that only a board member commented on the items. I think that that's a problem. And I also would say that I think in general that when we get to the point where we are routinely editing minutes

that really are very well done by the woman who scribes for the committee on a regular basis, that we are in challenging territory. I don't think that the board really wants to get to the point where every set of minutes will have changes and every member of the board would be looking to weaponize the minutes to ensure that their particular point of view is a point of view that is presented and also privileged. within the course of those minutes because what happens in these minutes right now is that people who come to present to the board are identified and what they bring to the board is identified but the board discussion comes down to a general consensus and then what goes forward to be voted. We do in fact operate as a board. People move to the town of Needham because it's a well-run town. and as I say all the time, a well-rounded government is boring government.

One would hope that we would not be wordsmithing all of our minutes that are already there's no issue about the fact that the minutes as originally drafted are in fact accurate. So I think that that's my perspective. I would have said that I believe that these additions probably should be rejected. And that's what I believe.

May I say something? Certainly. So I proposed these edits. And you notice on the consent calendar there's a backlog of minutes. So it was not that. All minutes were edited. It just happened that there was a lot of minutes that came all at once. And so I think the purpose of minutes is to summarize what was discussed. the edits they included included some things that were not included so omitted and that's not a criticism of are recording secretary at all. I mean, I think it's very common. I've done it on this board in the past to send edits to minutes. And usually, they're accepted. without discussion, although other people are welcome to send their own comments to the town manager as well. So it's not as though there's a single point of view that is being privileged. Everyone else can... add their comments as well.

I think in terms of the length of the minutes, Minutes come in all forms. I've been on the finance committee. The finance committee has very detailed minutes. I know the planning board has very detailed minutes. As I said before, I think the important point is that the minutes show what was discussed. So someone can pick it up and they know. And though everything that's there is complete, if anything's omitted, then I think that that has to be included. And that's important. you made a comment about weaponizing the minutes and I don't think that that's fair or accurate or reflective of the intent of the the suggested edits. I can review some of the suggested edits.

So at the November 12th meeting, there was an exchange I think that Marianne and I had about public record requests. and I really just wrote a sentence that said you know my interpretation of public record quest and then we had a discussion so that's not I don't think I mischaracterized anyone else's position and I don't even think that I I was explicit in as much detail as some other minutes like the finance committee or planning board would have. So I think I was just making sure that it was covered, excuse me, on the November 25th minutes, I included a reference to the exchange that I had with town council. And in fact, those were minutes that The town manager had the town council review. So he has reviewed those. So he is comfortable with those. He made some edits and I went perfectly fine with those as well.

and then on November 12th, excuse me, December 12th I added a small bit of language relative to the reason for why I made a comment. So my belief that we were talking about the Senate benefits for Stephen Palmer. I wanted to just be clear that the reason why I was proposing is because we had not taken a vote yet.

Just to add to this, I was looking at them earlier today and in fact like some of them on the December 16th one I think Yeah, containing a recommendation regarding an email, a memo to the select board. You know, what was added, the text that you added containing your recommendation, it feels revisionist. And I think that's not the point of the minute. I can appreciate you want to bolster an argument we were discussing. but I don't think the menace is a place to sort of relitigate it. So in that case, I would reject that edit. I think the following one about the town clerk, how public records can be received by any town public official, I think that's sort of after the fact.

we were neither discussing the recommendations in the memo nor were we discussing who could really do it. That wasn't the point of the discussion. I think these are laid in sort of to boast an argument, but that's not the place for minutes. And also, I understand, Josh, when you say that everyone can add their comments. But that's not the point of minutes. The point of minutes is sort of a dispassionate, here's what happened. It's not for us to basically kick the can again and have another whack at it. So I would... I would reject the minutes for 12-16 as well based on those changes. and I think we should just be careful of how we do the minutes. The minutes are fine, but the minutes are not a place for us to have another crack at it.

Kathy, do you have any comments? I would just say I think Marianne's comments are interesting. I haven't really thought about a philosophy of minutes before. and then hearing Josh make the comparison with the more detailed minutes of the FinCom and the planning board is also interesting. and I think there probably are different ways you could go about minutes. When I look at the minutes, I generally look to see is there anything that I think is wrong? and if not I don't make any suggestions but you know I think perhaps the the minutes for the select board might be more simplistic than the minutes for perhaps the FinCom or the planning board in part for the reasons that Marianne stated that we are an executive body and ultimately we act with one voice.

Yeah, I guess I am challenged because I feel like, Marianne, your comments have a lot of validity. I do feel like the edits that you've created do advantage a single voice over the others. And I worry about that. I'll give you one example. One of these edits says that Mr. Levy proposed a draft policy that outlined the eligible reimbursement costs, and here's the edited part, noting that the select board had not yet voted on eligible reimbursement costs. Part of the discussion was that we were not taking a vote, that we had provided an executive session.

consensus direction and concrete direction to the town manager and that we had all agreed on that direction and therefore we had gone without a vote that there wasn't your edit makes it appear as though we have left something undone when we in fact purposefully proceeded in a direction. So it wasn't, to my mind, left undone, which I think changes the Final Reading, and The Takeaway. And so I guess I am concerned I guess what I'm saying is this isn't a transcript. This is minutes. And I do believe both that The board should act as a single body, particularly once a decision is made and that that's something that you have trouble with.

Excuse me?

I'm just saying that I think that there is a struggle with oftentimes being a minority voice on the board. It's not meant to be an insult. I'm just acknowledging the situation. So I hear what you're saying, but I do feel like inserting something like this changes the takeaway. And that's a problem for me.

I'm not looking to re-litigate past decisions. I'm looking to make sure that what was said is captured in the minutes.

But then what's different? Why aren't we just issuing a transcript?

I do want to make a point that both the planning board and the finance committee tend to have minutes that are more narrative based. That has not ever been what has occurred on the select board. And I actually don't think it is what should occur on the select board. But you are seeking to have narrative minutes for your voice and you have told the rest of us that we could have narrative minutes for our voice if we would like to write our own corrections here as well. I do not think that is a good path for the board to go. That's my position.

So in the suggested edits, I tried actually to keep the style consistent with what's here. Because as I said, they could have been much more detailed as is on the finance committee. I really did not... I tried to change the style, but I did make sure that there were things that were said that were included in the minutes. on November 25th, the exchange between me and town council was omitted in its entirety. And I think that is important to include. And again, it was not a transcript that I included. I think it was just a summary of the points. And I think there is another point.

The overall content of the discussion was related in the minutes.

What do you mean?

I mean, the content of the discussion is there, not who said what and that it was between you and town council. It was a board discussion, including town council.

But that does have to be recorded. You know, if someone has... You mentioned that I often have an opposing point of view. If any member has a different point of view and voices that, that is something that is meant to be captured in the minutes because it is important for the minutes to show who said what. not as a transcript, but in terms of their sentiment.

I guess that makes me feel like you are trying to preserve your opinion for some purpose later, as opposed to the board had a discussion, this is where we ended up.

But that's what the record is. The minutes are meant to be preserved as a record for later.

But as Marianne is pointing out, there are different kinds of minutes. There are transcripts. And of course, everything is captured on video and saved in perpetuity. So that record does exist, but the minutes, the form that the select board minutes has taken is not that record.

Right. Josh, your revision was three paragraphs long. And it wasn't just this is the number 25. There's a three paragraph revision. It's like, OK, that's very detailed capture of a discussion. We should capture that there was a discussion. Here are the outputs, but not like it's verbatim he also noted that while the tenant he goes on and on and on and on and on and that goes on some more. So I think it just captured too much. And I think it sounds like in this, it just seems too much. December 16th one just seems like you planted seeds of like, I'm just relitigating this because this is what I was trying to say, but it wasn't material to the conversation at the time.

The reason why I said it is because it was material. And actually, the things I noted weren't even the things in the December 16th meeting. They were actually things the town manager said. These are things that are just part of the record, not necessarily things that I am trying to make a point of.

Right, but they're part of the record in the video, and they would be part of the record in a transcript. I guess the question is whether we as a board are happy with the form that our minutes take currently or if they need to be changed to be more narrative to include more specific commentary in every line of every discussion. I'm not prepared to make that change myself. So I don't know that there's a need for that to be quite so specific across all of our touchpoints, all of our recordings of the meetings that occur, given that it does exist elsewhere.

I think that just makes it a lot harder for people to find information if they have to go through an entire video.

Well, they have to go through an entire set of minutes.

But the minutes are meant to be a summary. The minutes are meant to capture.

Well, I guess that's my point. The minutes are meant to be a summary. And this, to me, is not a summary. This is what Josh said and then what the rest of us did. That's what the emphasis looks like to me. This is what Mr. Levy said and the rest of the board did this.

I actually think it's different from that because it's what Mr. Levy said, but we all voted unanimously. on these items that I'm looking at. So there was a consensus on the board independent of all the different pieces that everybody rolled into it. And I think what was already here in fact reflected that discussion in general. That would be my perspective.

I mean, I don't think the minutes of November 25 reflected a unanimous vote. I don't know if that's even important, because I think you can have a unanimous vote with different reasons for voting that way. I guess if there is concern, what's the path forward? Do members want to suggest revisions to the minutes?

Yeah, I think that'd be a disaster. I think We are best served when minutes are impartial, maybe even dispassionate. But if the suggestion is that we each go in and make our own comments, then we're just all about in the minutes. But also we're introducing politics into the minutes. And I really don't want to do that. I don't think we're helped by having politics in the minutes and scoring points in the minutes so i think the fact is sometimes if it captures what happened, it might be not the view you want or I want, but I think we sort of have to allow that someone, Susan, thank you, captured the minutes pretty well and did a good job. And unless something's horribly wrong, I think Griswold, I'm OK with it. And I think everything overall is very accurate.

Can I ask, what's political about

I think if everyone goes into minutes trying to re-litigate what points are being made, that becomes political.

It's about making sure that people's voices are documented, and that's not political.

In fact, if That's actually one of the definitions of political. It's which voice is heard. It's which agenda or strategy or anything is made. That is the definition of politics.

I hope you're not trying to silence my voice then.

Nope.

No, no one's silencing anyone.

You said what you said when you said it.

Then why isn't it in the minutes?

Josh, because it's not a transcript. Over and over again, we're saying that there isn't one voice or idea or the various different reasons that any given member voted for something. It's that we voted, that we had consensus. that the vote was taken and here was the result. That's what the minutes are. The transcript talks about every single voice and every single point made as does the video. These are different things. And I hear that you want the minutes to be something else. And maybe that is the discussion that we're having. but I do feel like these minutes are political when you detail your point of view as a notable item and the rest of us don't always agree.

and don't always have the same reasons for voting the same thing, but we're not, I mean, I just, I think that's not a good use of, A, our time, but also the idea here, and I think this is also something that we struggle with as a board, is that once the board has voted, we move forward as a board. and I think it's important that the minutes reflect that if there is consensus that we move forward as a board.

The minutes have to reflect the discussion and if there was not consensus, it has to reflect that as well.

Well, they do reflect that when there isn't consensus.

Not, I mean, just take the November 25th minutes. If you omit all of my conversation with town council, you are not capturing any of my conversation with him at that meeting.

That's right. We capture the discussion as a whole and then the outcome.

That is not my understanding of what minutes are.

I hear that. So I think a couple of things are important. The discussion with town council, there is a paragraph that was preexisting here that said discussion ensued regarding the importance of tenant relocation benefits to the agreement. I think that is a pretty good description at a summary level of what went on. Here's where I think this gets even harder. Part of why we have all these minutes is because the town manager felt compelled to change the procedure for minutes. And she did that because she had received some minutes back, which meant that we sort of pulled minutes. They went back, then they got done. And then I started asking for red lines. So certainly if minutes get edited, I would recommend that the board take a look at red lines. So we've complicated this job.

But if the process moves from minutes being put on the consent agenda where board members can go look and ensure high level discussion, vote is accurately captured. That is the level at which I look at these minutes. instead of doing that that each of us must read the minutes to be sure that our perspective goes into them okay and our particular voice that we bring to any discussion goes into them We have really changed what's going on. We've changed the level of work that will be required. We've changed the amount of time. that will be spent on minutes. I just think the board needs to pause and think about the implications for practice as a result.

I would also say as a practical matter, when the minutes are simple, it does provide kind of a cheat sheet to the video. So if someone wanted to take a look at the discussion, it does timestamp the discussion the actual timestamp not the you know um the agenda times the scheduled timestamp so you don't have to read through Listen to the entire video. It gives you kind of an understanding of when that discussion starts and the outcome of the discussion. Now, if you want to go and listen to the whole thing, and hear each individual voice. That's your option. But having these become longer and more specific to each argument

in my mind kind of defeats the purpose of being able to review the minutes as a resident, not as a select board member, quickly and understand the outcome of the meeting. So I understand that we feel differently about that. So the question, I guess, is whether members want to continue to think about this, whether we want to propose acceptance or rejection of the revisions or where we want to go with this.

I would reject the revisions on the 16th, December 16th. you know which one I'm looking at I would and then the other one I would I would just say reject them so either they have to be reworked, cleaned up or whatever. What's the process? If we reject minutes, what happens? They have to get reworked?

If you reject the minutes, I guess I would ask for clarity about what edits you would like me to bring back to you for further consideration.

yeah do we need to to vote on this or can we just say that we need to look at these minutes again and determine I mean I don't know if this is really

Technically, once minutes are published and have a red line like this, you would need to vote on each. addition, change, etc. with whether they go in or they don't go in.

Could we kick this off to the next meeting or a future meeting to discuss them?

You know what? Our meetings are going to be longer from this meeting on.

Our meeting's getting too close. Okay. All right.

I mean, we can, this is not a particularly efficient use of our time, but we can go through these edits and it seems like, you know, voting each one of these individually is Not a good solution either. I would ask, I guess, if you in the context of this discussion want to keep all these edits?

I do. Okay.

Okay. So then I guess we need to go through and take a look at each one.

All right, December.

So the first set of minutes is for Wednesday, November 12th. And the first edit comes at 6.06 with regard to the uh open meeting law response and um

So let me start by reading the minutes as they were drafted. Board members thanked Mr. Heap for the service he provides to the town. They also asked about the increase in open meeting law Complaints, issues they anticipate will require legal guidance and the nuance of public records requests, period. Mr. Levy added two more sentences that read, Mr. Levy remarked that he interprets public records requests as a desire to better understand how decisions were made. Discussion ensued regarding the value of information provided from Public Records Requests. I would move that we not add those two sentences.

May I ask why?

Because I don't think that they are critical beyond the paragraph that was already written there.

I think without those sentences, there's no reference at all, first of all, to my opinion that was voiced, but second to our exchange about the value of public record requests.

But Josh, we all made statements during this discussion about this matter. The only one that's included is yours. So it's like I get spotlight on you, but you weren't the only one that made a statement. What you said isn't wrong. It just feels out of place.

Josh, the exchange that you and I had was on December 16th, not on November 12th.

We've had multiple exchanges. The exchange on November 12th was when, I don't want to put words in your mouth, I thought that My understanding of public record requests is that people want to understand how the sausage is made. And I think we had a back and forth about where the sausage is made in public. Do we learn anything new about public record requests? That was the nature of the conversation. and you'll notice that I said many things throughout all these minutes that I did not note. The ones that I noted were ones that I thought were relevant to a conversation that was omitted. So that's why I included them. Or they were backup or justification for my position. Things like that.

I think that's exactly the point.

That's because I'm speaking for myself. I mean, when I submit edits, I guess I could. There's nothing preventing me from putting comments that other members made, but it's a little uncomfortable.

I understand your position. and you are putting in your position into the minutes and the rest, well, I will speak for myself. I think that's inappropriate.

Well, it's what I said. It's not like a political position.

I have heard you. I have heard you. I mean, I'm acknowledging that we feel differently about this. I hear your position. I'm stating it again. change mine in this case.

But I just want to make sure it's clear that it's not a political position. It is a reflection of what was said at a meeting.

Yes, it was said by you. The rest of us are unnamed here. And unless we all choose to go in and insert our own voices and the thing gets to be 20 pages long, it's not going to be that way and I don't think that it's appropriate to have one voice over everyone else's I don't think that these minutes should read that way whether it's because we don't have the energy for it or because it's just not A desirable summary. I think it's not a desirable summary to have individual voices. These sentences reflect the discussion. That's my point.

I think the line that says, and the nuance of public record request, sums up that there was a discussion about the nuance of public records request. So I think we're done there. The extra sentences are not necessary. I mean, they're not inaccurate, but we got it.

But neither was what was written inaccurate. That was also accurate.

Yeah. OK. Do we need to vote? So if we're going to move through this, I don't want to repeat the same discussion that we just had for every comment. So let's go through. will look at each comment and we'll vote on them. But I don't think that we need to belabor the difference of opinion that you and I in this particular case are having. We understand that you want them in because you want that comment in the record. And we understand that I think that they should be sort of less specific. And we will retain that understanding as we move through. So, Marianne, did you Did you have a motion here? Or we just read out the... Do you want to do the full minutes?

I think this is, I think that's the only change in November 12.

All right. Yeah.

Okay, so then, I mean, you're welcome to make the motion to accept them if you'd like.

I would make a motion that we accept all the minutes as written, but I imagine that given the discussion that that is not going to be received well.

Yeah, I expect you're right.

So I'm going to follow your lead on how you want to procedurally go about doing this.

OK, well, let's just vote on this set of minutes. I'm happy to make the motion, but typically we don't do it that way.

Madam Chair, I make a motion we accept the minutes for November 12, 2025, unamended.

Second. Okay. So we'll do roll call for each one of these. Kathy? Yes. Kevin?

Yes. Josh? No.

Marianne? Yes. And I vote yes. Okay, we'll move on to the next set of minutes, which is for Tuesday, November 25th. and the first edit comes on page four of those minutes just after the 7 29 pm time stamp um All right, so I guess we'll do the same thing and read the changes. The paragraph before says, Mr. Heap presented a recommended response after reviewing the complaint. This is about the open meeting law complaint filed by Carol Roskam. explaining that according to his evaluation, all discussion regarding the agreement was held appropriately and the and the entire agreement regarding payments to be made to Stephen Palmer Associates and the tenant relocation benefit

were discussed in detail in open session at the select board meeting on October 14th before the agreement with Stephen Palmer Associates was voted and signed. The revision.

I might also read the last paragraph. Discussion ensued regarding the importance of tenant relocation benefits to or in The agreement, the details of what was discussed at the board's October 14th meeting, and the requirements of the $10,000 relocation benefit for the residents of the building. thank you so all of that information was in the minutes yes thank you as originally drafted okay

Relevant. Very, very much so. Thank you. Okay, so the revision then states, Mr. Levy asked about the relationship between the agreement with Stephen Palmer Associates and the tenant relocation benefit because The latter is not among the 10 enumerated reasons for entering executive session. Mr. Heap responded that prior to the start of negotiations with Stephen Palmer Associates, he would have said that the two subject matters were separate for the purpose of determining which is permissible to discuss in executive session. However, Mr. Heap stated that during the negotiations, the two subject matters became so closely linked that there was no agreement to be had with Stephen Palmer Associates without some provision for tenant relocation benefits. and that the two topics were part of the agreement that was ultimately reached period.

He also noted that while the tenant relocation benefit was not included in the written agreement with Stephen Palmer Associates, it was nonetheless are an integral component of the agreement with Stephen Palmer Associates, and negotiation would not have proceeded to an agreement absent some resolution on relocation benefits to be paid to the tenants. Mr. Levy also asked about the discussion of the tenant benefit at the select board's October 14th, 2025 regular meeting. Other select board members and the town manager confirmed their recollection that the tenant benefit was discussed at that October 14th meeting. Mr. Levy noted that there still remain several components of the tenant relocation benefit yet to be decided. Mr. Levy also expressed his belief that while the Agreement with Stephen Palmer Associates was a discussion topic during the Select Board's open session meeting on October 14th. The tenant relocation benefit had not been discussed as an agenda item of the Select Board's open session meeting on October 14th.

So again, I think all of that technically is true. Much of it is duplicative of what was already there.

Yeah. And in fact, I would just refer to the I should have just started earlier because in the the original preceding paragraph, proceeding to the one I originally read, it does say, Town Council Chris Heap outlined that the complaint takes issue with the manner in which the decision to reach was reached to provide a ten thousand dollar relocation benefit to the tenants of Stephen Palmer building and the degree to which that relocation benefit was described at town meeting as being tied to the agreement that the board entered into with Stephen Palmer associates. That was part of the discussion and it is noted in the in the minutes.

That paragraph you read was about the complaint itself.

Yeah.

The language they added was the discussion among the select board members.

So we have these edits. There is also an edit further along in the same discussion, which seems fairly minor. Mr. Levy asked if the board could review rather than provide input to the response provided by Mr. Heap added prior to submission. So we have those revisions. I'm just checking to see if there are any more in this. No, that's it for this set of minutes. So do we have a motion for this set of minutes from Tuesday, November 25th?

I'm still reading. You know, honestly, just for discussion, I read aloud in the first paragraph, first sentence, Mr. Levy asked about the relationship between the agreement with Stephen Palmer Associates and the tenant relocation benefit, period. and that would be sufficient. Backup material and reasoning is not necessarily required for the minutes. I don't need to know the state of where he's going. He also asked, I'd also allow the next paragraph. Mr. Levy also asked about the discussion of the tenant benefit at the select board's October 14, 2025 regular meeting, period. that's fine too. As for the statements about the revision of provide input to isn't sufficient and had to be review, I do not understand that.

and then prior to submission is another one. which is fine with me.

Kevin, the comment about Mr. Levy also asked about the discussion of the tenant benefit at the select board's October 14, 2025 regular meeting. it already says discussion ensued regarding the importance of tenant relocation benefits to the agreement, the details of what was discussed at the board's October 14th meeting. So it's in there.

Okay.

and in case anybody wonders, the answer is yes, we did discuss it in public at the October 14th meeting.

Okay.

I went back and reviewed the tape, just to be sure.

um all right so is there is there a motion with regard to the did you Jackson I'm listening mostly um is there a motion with regard to this set of minutes

Sure. Madam Chair, I make a motion we accept the minutes for Tuesday, November 25th, 2025. are you okay with my revisions to with without amendment without with my revisions first sentence of I don't think they're necessary honestly it's all in there okay but it's your motion so I would say leave the first sentence and delete the other revisions.

Yeah, just ask for clarification on the motion. Just the first sentence of the first sentence of the revisions missile.

Let me ask about the relationship. I'll like he wants to get that in. That's fine.

So period after benefit.

period after benefit. I'm sorry, yeah, not because the latter is amongst the ten enumerated reasons. That's gone.

So just to clarify, we all agree that the edits are accurate reflection of what was said in...

I don't think anybody's trying to tell you that's not accurate.

Everyone's saying they're accurate. and yet they can't be in the minutes because they would be too long or they would reflect only one member's position. Is that accurate?

Well, they're duplicative because it's already discussed that it was discussed. I mean, it actually says that tenant relocation benefit were discussed in detail. I mean, it's there. There's no need for this except to accentuate your voice. That's my opinion.

I think I was the only person who asked questions of town council.

Yeah and that's captured. Not really. Ms. Levy asked about the relationship between... I don't think it matters that you're the only one who asked the questions.

The questions were asked, he answered, that was part of the discussion. The discussion ensued with that information on the table. I don't think it matters who asked the question.

I think that we've rehashed this before, but I'll just say it again. The purpose of minutes is to understand who said what.

No, that's not the purpose of minutes. We disagree on this point.

I know.

So here we are disagreeing again.

Susan's not a stenographer.

Excuse me, Madam Chair. The Vice Chair has me. Cathy. Yes, I just wanted to make a couple points. Just backing up from where we are a little bit, because I think we're down in the weeds right now. to me the important decision is that philosophical one and I think everybody can come at it with you know a pure heart and good intentions it's just different philosophies so you know one philosophy is the more minimalistic philosophy and in that philosophy our duty as select board members when we review the minutes is simply to look for inaccuracies. Another philosophy is to have a more complete set of minutes that really reflect different points of view of each member. In that philosophy, each one of us as select board members would have to read the minutes and consider what we wanted to add to make sure that our voices were heard.

you know I don't think we need to have value judgments on those but I prefer the simpler one and I think it's better for us as an executive body to have a simpler one with, you know, sort of more of a consensus view. And I also think it puts a great burden on everyone administratively, et cetera, to add to these minutes. So I would prefer the simpler one. But I think I think we can sort of think of it that way. It's maybe a little easier rather than getting into the motives that people might have and the results that might ensue. And then in this particular discussion, I think it would be frankly simpler either to accept the revisions in their entirety or reject Revisions in their entirety rather than trying to wordsmith them. I find that writing during a meeting is very difficult and often ineffective.

Well, very wise, Kathy, as always. I agree. And I guess either accepting or rejecting the additions, given my feeling that they are The content is already reflected in the minutes as they exist would be my preference as well. So I guess I would ask Mr. Keane if he would consider revising his motion.

So no one seconded it?

No. I'll second it.

All right, I'll revise. Let's accept the minutes. Hold on, got to scroll up.

As is? Is that what you said? As is. November 25th. No amendment.

With no revisions.

With no revisions. Okay. And so do we have a second for that motion? Second. Okay, so we'll take a vote. Kathy? Yes. Kevin?

Yes.

Josh?

No.

Miriam? Yes. I vote yes. Okay, moving on to the last set of minutes. which is Tuesday, December 16th. And This set of revisions is on page two and three. I believe they're two different yeah yeah so we'll start with page two and that's just after the 616 time stamp um this is again about Stephen Palmer um in this In the second paragraph, the edits include, as is, it says, under the current list of eligible expenses,

comma, the town can only reimburse that tenant for the security deposit and the difference in rent, and it goes on. The edit here is under the list of eligible expenses outlined in a memorandum. from the town manager to the select board dated October 10th, 2025, titled Stephen Palmer Memorandum of Agreement, comma, the town can only reimburse and the rest of that paragraph is the same.

Can I make a comment on that? Sure. So the reason for that clarification is it mirrors the same language that was used when we voted the benefits on the consent calendar on January 12th. to reference the memo where they were first mentioned.

Fair. So it's trying to be more specific. Okay. In a following paragraph, The original text says, Mr. Levy proposed a draft policy that outlined eligible requirement costs, edit, noting that the select board had not yet voted on eligible reimbursement costs, period. and then the original text continues, the board will discuss this motion at a future meeting.

And that edit was to clarify the reason for making that motion, which was eventually passed on the consent calendar on January 12th.

right um i understand that but i do think that it changes the meaning as this as as i mentioned earlier i understand that We had decided not to vote. We had given clear consensus. And so there was no vote scheduled.

And just we're not rehashing that.

Right, right.

Because if we were, we would have to go back into the executive session minutes, and I don't really want to do that right now.

Right, I'm just trying to apply some context as we consider this. OK. Further, well, no, that's the next subject. So given that there's more than one subject here, I mean I guess we'll do an up or down vote as we have before unless people want to break it out the the continuing edits is on a different subject it's for safe streets for all grant after the 622 timestamp and on page three. And the text reads, Ms. Cooley raised a concern about a member of the select board forwarding to a member of the public An initial is removed, email, edit, containing a recommendation.

and then continuing with the existing text from the town manager to the board on this topic. Mr. Levy acknowledged that he had forwarded the member the memo to a member of the public edit in response to A Public Records Request. This is very difficult to read out loud as there are multiple edits here. The existing text continues, there was an agreement that the email is a public record. The board discussed that the board's practice what the board's practice has been when a public records request is received edit by the town clerk how public records requests can be received by any public official comma continuing with the the existing text, and how the member of the public would have known to ask for the document.

There was further discussion about work products that are in process and board norms. and I think that's the extent of the edits here. So,

and just on that last edit so that's the second part's really meant to be just a clearer reflection of what the town manager said that you know there are Anyone can receive a public record request. There is a process when the town clerk receives a public record request. In the first part, I was just clarifying that it was just my My interpretation of the words, so the email containing the recommendation, That seemed relevant to include. Initial, I didn't know what was meant by initial because it was a final recommendation. So that's why I made those edits.

I actually think initial probably reflected my comments more because I did think the town manager was asking for feedback I presumed her recommendation may change based on the feedback and concerns she might hear. So at least that's how I understood it as a question when it came out to us.

No, I do not understand it that way.

Well, that's why I do think initial email is consistent with how I had talked about it.

But this is an example of how one member's point of view is being represented in the minutes and another's is not.

I am the person who raised the concern, you're correct.

Alright, do we have a motion regarding acceptance or not of these minutes?

Madam Chair, I make a motion that we accept the minutes for Tuesday, December 16, 2025, unamended.

Do we have a second? Second. All right. Kathy? Yes. Kevin?

Yes.

Josh?

No.

Marianne? Yes. And I vote yes. Okay. Yeah, I guess I acknowledge our philosophical difference. And I guess I would hope that Moving forward, we can find a way to resolve that difference without doing this because I just feel like this is not productive.

So, I mean, I'll, you know, as I have before, I'll continue to send edits if I have any to the town manager. I guess this is the first time that we've had it in this format which is not bad because I know other boards you know particularly the planning board tend to do that but it takes a lot of time I would just hope that I guess I'll be completely honest. I feel like there was not much of an open mind among my colleagues when we were discussing these suggested edits. If I am wrong, please correct me.

I think we've discovered that we have a philosophical difference about what the minute should be. So yes, in that regard, it sounds that way. But again, I'm just going to note that that's the extent of the difference. Nobody's suggesting that your edits are not factual.

but by not including them, are the minutes complete?

Well, that's the philosophical difference.

Yes, they're complete. They captured what was said at the meeting. And I think... What I'm looking for is to keep basically agendas of politics out of it in which we're framing the argument to our best advantage, and that's not helpful.

I think we've heard everyone's opinion on this. I'm not sure that we are being productive by relitigating. So we're going to move along to committee reports. So we'll just kind of go down the line. Kathy, I'm going to come to you first because you're on my left.

Yes. the greater excuse me the general bylaw committee did meet remotely last night and we approved a final report that is going to go to town meeting in may i think at our last meeting or perhaps one before that, I mentioned that Town Meeting in May will have the report from the General By-law Committee, but the actual warrant article will likely come in the Fall Special Town Meeting to coincide with a clean and complete by-law. so that town meeting members will be able to understand what the warrant article is actually doing. Right. And as I mentioned last time, just people don't remember or don't know the bylaw right now, we don't have one copy that has all of the current by-law as it stands, all the revisions in one place. It doesn't exist in one written form.

And it's actually very difficult to do because of old word processing versions, etc. So that the town clerk is working feverishly on that and we'll have it in time for fall special town meeting.

Okay, great. Kevin?

The branding and seal committee met today by Zoom, and we voted to approve the town seal with just two illustrative tweaks, but you'll be seeing it next week.

Great. Exciting. Josh?

No, I don't think I have any updates.

Okay. Marianne? No updates. Okay. Well, I'll share that last night on the tail end of the snowstorm, The Fierce Tree Preservation Planning Committee met online and met with town council to go through a very long List that we had kept running throughout all of our discussions of potential conflicts with other bylaws and just hard to resolve points and points that needed legal clarification. So Town Council was able to provide a lot of direction and clarity as far as the legal resolution of those conflicts. A lot of them still require discussion in terms of policy implementation and what the committee will decide to do to resolve them in line with the

legal resolution. So the council's review of the bylaw the regulations and the mitigation fee schedule is complete. The committee still has some additional work to do and is anticipating moving forward with with that work and then bringing it to a public forum whose date is still to be determined, but hopefully soon. I think maybe it was tentatively scheduled. We have to check with the rest of the committee. Some of our members were out plowing. And then handing it over to the select board in late May to go to hopefully a special town meeting in October of 2026. So there will be a chance for the public to take a look at the end result.

We're still trucking on to get there. okay during the snowstorm good during the snowstorm well yeah i mean from home but we were all we were all pretty tired um okay so uh Lastly, we're going to move to go into executive session under exception three to discuss In the matter of Needham Department of Public Works, Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection Office of Appeals and Dispute Resolution Docket, Well, you know what? I'm reading the wrong part. Let me start over again. Proposing that the select board enter executive session pursuant to exception three to discuss in the matter of Needham,

Department of Public Works, Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection Office of Appeals and Dispute Resolution Docket Number 2023-014, where the chair declares in an open meeting that an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigating position of the public body and the chair so declares and also for exception three to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining with Needham Firefighters Local 1706 Needham Police Union, the Police Superior Officers Association, and the Needham Building Custodian Trades Independent Association. where the chair declares that an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining position of the public body, and the chair so declares, and to adjourn at the conclusion of the executive session without returning to open session.

So moved. Second.

Second. Super. Okay, so we're going to do a roll call vote. Kathy? Yes. Kevin?

Yes.

Josh? Yes.

Marianne? Yes. Mr. Ross? Yes. Good night. Recording stopped.