Select Board - July 23, 2026

Okay, good evening. I call the select board meeting of July 23rd to order. First item on agenda is to please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God So the first item on the agenda is a remembrance, and we will do a moment of silence for Jerry Pacheco. Jerry Pacheco, you know spent many years as a volunteer for the town including Dedham Boosters and as a coach for Gerst Softball. Jerry worked for the Town of Dedham for 32 years in both the school and town departments

She's probably most known for being the elected town clerk in 1997 and held that position until 2005. She was also a member of the Council on Aging board So on behalf of the select board in the town of Dedham, we wish to offer our condolences to Jerry's family. And I just ask for a moment of silence please. Thank you. First item on the agenda is the Dedham Citizens Open Discussion. Anybody here for anything? Okay, we'll move on to the town manager's report.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As requested, we have with us tonight Sam Menard. Sam is the health director for the town. and she's going to provide an update for us on the recent cyanobacteria situation in Dedham. Sam, you can either go to the podium or the table wherever you're comfortable.

It's up to you.

So the reason why this is not on the agenda, this is something that just came up this week. And the town has done a lot of communications throughout throughout the town on this issue, so we felt it was important to ask Sam to come in and give an update. Thank you.

No problem. And you can all hear me? Amazing. Hello, board. Good evening. I am Sam Menard. I'm the health director here in Dedham and please Forgive me for any mispronunciations or not being at a level of expertise maybe you're hoping for with this as this is a very recent topic that has come up, but we did our best to prepare an update for you tonight. So I am just going to give you a brief update about that is really sensitive on the clicker. Okay I give you just a brief update about the recent cyanobacteria bloom that is affecting the Charles River and parts of Dedham currently. So this all began on Tuesday. The Massachusetts Department of Public Health reached out to four communities, including Dedham saying there was a

report of a dog that had died due to liver failure, that was suspected to be caused by cyanobacteria toxin. And that dog had been exposed at Millennium Park right across the river in West Roxbury So based on that report, they had suggested precautionary public health advisory be posted at all access points to the river. advising folks to stay out, no contact with the river. No pets in there and that area can be seen on this map so affecting Charles River areas in Dedham, West Roxbury, Needham and Newton. And this is all starting at Bridge Street right at Riverdale Park and north of there so you can see that a little bit better on this map here. This is just the Dedham cut of it, so Riverdale Park about 50 residential

Properties, and then the section of Cutler State Park that is in Dedham are the areas affected for us. Just so to back up a little bit just to give you a bit of background about cyanobacteria. It's also known as blue-green algae, and it's a microscopic photosynthetic organism found naturally in all types of water it's not typically visible, but when it does experience explosive growth due to certain conditions that's when we'll see these cyanobacteria blooms and that's what we're really worried about here. They can be harmful a lot of them can produce toxins that can produce nuisance conditions such as gross looking water, brown bluish green where it gets the name from

It can cause matting that it can happen on the surface, the shoreline sometimes underneath the water causing odors fish to die just an overall kind of not water you'd probably want to be swimming in for sure. And then the effects it can have on humans, dogs, wildlife is that it can cause any from like dermatitis to gastrointestinal issues, to even death of as we've seen probably in the dog that was exposed to this bloom, and that in particular was caused by liver damage. But this can be really serious if people are having prolonged exposure. So what causes these is basically just like any other algae growth, it's environmental conditions. when the nutrients are high enough in the water, so especially nitrogen and things like phosphorus. When that's really high, the water temperature is high, uh...the water movement has decreased and we have more sunlight

this bacteria might just start to thrive in those conditions and overtake other organisms, causing these mats and blooms to form. And not unexpectedly This is most likely in Massachusetts to be happening in mid-to late summer like it is now because that's when these conditions are occurring. and these can occur in really any bodies of water, obviously including rivers here. And it can just affect part of the body of water so that's why the advisory has only been issued for this small section. of the river. And the best public health approach here is just when there's visually a bloom happening, you just assume there's going to be a toxic and President, even though there might not always be because we just want to take that precaution. So when the slide's a little bit cut off here I wonder if it can Zoom out a little bit. No? Okay, that's fine.

DPH was out on site on Tuesday and Wednesday. So Tuesday, they took the photos you can see here at Millennium Park. And this is visual confirmation that a bloom is happening. The type of bloom they're observing here is something called benthic, which basically means a mat is forming on surfaces beneath the water of the river. This actually, according to DPH is a more rare kind of bloom that they're observing in Massachusetts to the point where they were reaching out to CDC for some guidance. Typically, we would see blooms happening more in the water column. So that's when you're going to get that really blue-green gross looking water positively and negatively this type of bloom because it's growing on surfaces the water might remain clear but that can be a negative because people might have a false sense of security where they're still willing to get into that water or be around the water because it's not going to be quite as unsightly.

The other downside with this type of bloom is that after... you have a lot of rain and things, a different type of bloom might just be washed away. It's really gonna help out here. That's not going to help here as much. And DPH testing methods are more typically used on a type of blooms that the test result would be more sure. Sorry, not explaining that well. Typically, the toxin level would be more accurate with DPH testing methods. This type of bloom, because it's sticking to surfaces on the bottom, heavy rains as we saw on Tuesday can come through. It might white some of the existing toxin away but the mats still remain. So it's not quite as reliable a testing method for this type of bloom. So we did, DPH was out on Wednesday.

They did take samples. They took samples at two locations in the Hanton Park Boathouse and Millennium Park Those are enough in the areas that are affecting Dedham to still be our results as well. And I think one of those locations, they were trying to get a little bit outside of the advisory area to make sure they were capturing everything downstream that might be happening. there was a positive result for one of the toxins they were testing for at that 0.5 parts per billion level. I am so sorry, I'm not going to try to pronounce that toxin level. So it is below the 14 parts per billion level that DPH would issue the advisory for, but like we discussed The testing's not super reliable because we did have that heavy rain come down on Tuesday.

So the advisory will remain into effect We just got that email at 3.30 p.m. today, so as of now, that's in effect. They most likely will be testing next week and in order for that advisory... to be lifted. I'm just going to skip a few slides and come back. We do need to have two rounds of sampling one week apart, which means next week if those toxin levels are back up we're a bit back to square 1 if they remain low and past that threshold, hopefully GPH will recommend that the advisory is lifted at that point. I did see a stat that was a little bit... outdated, I think as of 2020. But at that point it said the average bloom in Massachusetts does last about 42 days unfortunately but it is typical where you would expect these blooms lasting

weeks on average a month and maybe even upwards of 45 days. here. So, so far the town did receive this digital advisory posting from the state health department. we were out on Tuesday posting that up temporarily at Riverdale Park and then overnight DPW, did an incredible job. They had all this more permanent signage made up, so that has now been posted at Riverdale Park and two signs at Cutler Park near the water entry points in the entrance Our staff was also out hitting up those 50 residential properties yesterday. We just hand delivered the advisory to all those properties to make sure they were aware of the advisory as well. Something else I just wanted to point out.

Fortunately, the river in Dedham is flowing north towards Boston which is typically if the bloom's gonna continue to affect areas it's going to be downstream so hopefully even if the bloom continues to grow or move downstream, it's not going to affect any areas upstream in Dedham. So, so far the other town communications that have gone out and this is in a huge part due to our Communications Director who's done a ton of work on this. posting on the websites, getting out on all the social media, getting the word out to The Dedham Times and Dedham TV. Trying to just contact all interested parties we can think of including folks like the Charles River Watershed, L.L. Bean some of the summer camps we know of using the river but were really doing our absolute best to make sure everyone who could be in contact with the river is

are aware of this and will continue to post updates on the website and try to keep the public really informed. So unfortunately, as far as bloom management goes is there's not much we can do. The environmental conditions are there and It's not recommended that you do any sort of chemical treatments or things like that. You can actually make the bloom worse if you were to disturb and break open a bunch of the bacterial cells, you could release more toxins So at this point it's really just a weighting gain and hopefully weather conditions improve a little bit. We get more rain, we get more flow in the river, and this can resolve in a timely manner. and really just the focus for bloom management would be trying to prevent future blooms, which would really include trying to keep nutrients out of the water when we can. Any questions? Sorry, I know I flew through that.

No, thank you for putting this all together on short notice. Any questions

Thanks for the presentation. It was helpful. Should we anticipate that other bodies of water in town might experience these blooms, have have water sources around town been, maybe not officially tested but has there been a screening of the other bodies of water in town for this bacteria?

There is not, and I don't know that's the recommended strategy by DPH. This is really like these bacteria are just ubiquitous they're naturally present in all bodies of water so it really just depends on the environmental conditions at that body of water. I haven't heard word from the Department of Public Health just routine screenings that could be happening and we haven't received any reports. Like I said, typically these blooms are pretty unsightly they're smelly typically you'd become aware of them or someone would be reporting them, but we will certainly keep our eyes on that.

Okay, so just because it's in one place doesn't mean it's like seasonal conditions mean that they may crop up in others? No. Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else? Michelle?

Yeah, thank you for getting up to speed on this so quickly and putting the information together for us. I'm wondering about additional notifications like Dedham kind of picture the geography. And I understand this is just a section of the river but Dedham has so many entrance points. I'm thinking particularly the Dolan Center and even if that area is not in this area, people enter there and then kayak and canoe throughout so I'm just concerned about making sure the notification is at more entrance points. Has there been talk about that?

There hasn't been just based on DPH's recommendations that we just hit the entry points in those affected areas, but I certainly hear the concern. My staff had discussion this week because obviously it's the Charles River people are boating all the way up and down that river. I think at this point because it's such, so many communities are affected even just the four who were in this small area, DPH is really gonna have to we're probably gonna follow DPH guidance on all of this, but within our network any organizations you can think of too in addition that we could directly notify I think that would be very helpful. I don't think realistically we're going to be able to cover like every entry point in Dedham though.

To that note, maybe I would think that Parks and Rec would have record of people who keep boats down there or who have subscriptions to the rental. And I think if you have a boat in particular, you're obviously not It's one thing for someone to walk to an area, but if someone is getting in at any point in a boat I think we have a responsibility to make sure they know what's at their destination.

Yes, and certainly Parks and Rec has been notified but I can reconnect with them to make warning is given, especially if they're directly involved in people getting in boats in the river. I will say as far as risk activities I think boating through the area would be considered moderate versus swimming or having something where you're directly in the water, potentially consuming the water would be higher risk. But yes we can certainly follow up with that.

over notification is always better.

I agree.

Thank you.

Just one other item that I'd like to share. Coming at the end of August, on Monday, August 31st across the country is Overdose Awareness Day The Dedham Organization for Substance Awareness Coalition is recognizing International Overdose Awareness Day with a community remembrance event on Monday, August 31st. From August 24th until the 31st, purple flags will be displayed throughout Barnes Memorial Park with each flag representing a life lost to overdose in Massachusetts during 2025. On August 31st, from 6-8pm the community is inviting to a Remembrance Vigil featuring a peaceful space for reflection, remembrance and hope. Community members will have the opportunity to dedicate a flag in memory of a loved one or as a message of support. Beginning August 1st, messages may be submitted by visiting the Dedham Health Department or through the Town's website.

We encourage everyone to join us as we honor those who have lost Support those who are grieving and reaffirm our commitment to overdose prevention and recovery. We will have other events being planned for September, which is Overdose Awareness Month. This will be the start of our plans for that on the 31st. I'll have more information specifically to the board as we get closer to the date.

Thank you, any questions? Thank you. I just want to mention that Dimitria is tied up at work, she's going to try if she finishes on time to get here but that's where she is. Okay move onto the consent agenda please?

moved to approve the consent agenda, including block parties. New date for Paul Street is August 29th, 2-8 p.m., Chester, Winfield Streets. September 12th, 12 to 5 with a September 13th rain date Upland Road. September 19th, twelve to five with a September 20th rain date, Bikes Not Bombs bike ride October 4th, 7.30 to 9.30 AM and a gift acceptance $50 from George Bandelli to Council on Aging in Memory of Mrs. Bandelli.

Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Thank you, Brady? The Interfund borrowing?

Good evening. Brady Winston, Director of Finance. I'm here tonight to talk about inter-fund borrowing. So this is a procedure we do every year This is laid out in Massachusetts law. It's essentially a transfer, so we have approved capital projects that went through town meeting We will issue debt for these projects in the spring. However, many of them are somewhat time sensitive so that the departments would like to begin work So what we do is we take we do a transfer from our stabilization fund to the capital projects fund and then after the debt is issued, we transfer the money back into a stabilization fund. So this year, the total amount of the transfer is $3.2 million for, let's see about seven projects you have from Springtown meeting. So we are just requesting your approval of this transfer.

Thank you any questions? Is there a motion, please?

Move to approve a request for up to an interfund borrowing of up to $3,225,000 for various projects or purchases approved at the spring 2024 and 2026 town meetings. and shown on the schedule provided by the Treasurer Collector.

Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Thank You. Okay, moving on to the statements. Council, let's see, Commission on Disability. I know we have maybe four here.

Heather, Melissa, Bernie and Helen.

Okay if you want somebody wants to come up and start just Bernie will start for it Just brief a couple of minutes and thank you. Who are you?

Hi, how are you. Thank you for inviting me here today. Bernadette Cherokas, Bernie Cherokkas I've been on the Commission for Disability. This, I think is my third time term before you for an appointment to the commission. I've being the chair of the commission for at least the last four years since John Tachi stepped down and I have a son who has gross motor and mobility issues. And I've been involved in several other organisations that take care of provide activities for persons with disabilities as well as working as a personal care attendant for some people with major disabilities. That includes all facets of home care.

Thank you, any questions? Thank you. Ellen? Hi. Come on up.

How are you?

I'm doing well, how are you.

Not bad. Good. I'm Ellen Conway. I am a lifelong resident of Dedham. I grew up in Riverdale and now presently live in Oakdale I've been educated in the Dedham Public Schools. of the public schools, I went on to nursing. I am a registered nurse and I have an interest in disabilities because I work with people who are disabled and also there were disabled people in my family I have been on the Commission on Disabilities since, I think 2012. And this is my third or fourth term within the Commission of Disabilities and I'm seeking to be reappointed back onto the commission and continuing on with the work. I've been involved on the commission

Summer grant programs because we're giving out grants to kids that are going to camps, mainly camps and different programs of that. And just to also broaden the awareness Disabilities in the Town, and Nationwide. And thank you for your consideration.

Thank you. Any questions? No. Thanks Ellen. Heather? Hi.

Hi, good evening folks. Heather Sutcliffe I am just ending my first term as member of the Commission on Disability. I live in the Riverdale area and my two sons I know some of you know, both have an autism diagnosis and intellectual disability. They're 22 and almost 16. I can't believe it! and the last three years has been really rewarding and beneficial. I've gotten to know, obviously all the other members and we are here for different reasons and there are different things that motivate us You know, this population of disability is about 20% of the entire population of the US. I think it's something also that unifies us as we all age, we all have the potential to lose capabilities. And so it's really something that unifys us all and I truly feel like we're just getting started

We've made some really good strides working with Parks and Rec, and trying to just partner with them more closely. I had a great meeting over the last couple months with Amanda Smith on also how we can add more rigor and more consistency with some of the other committees. the one thing in particular that stuck with me is really having us all share a version of what motivates us to be on this committee. And so I really look forward working on that. Amber, I know you've got an inclusion grant and we really look forward to having you come to a meeting and talk about that. And I think lastly the thing that we're focused on that we talked at our last meeting a week ago is really how we get more diversity onto the committee. And there are so many different types of Disabilities, those you can see and those who can't. And I think we are just very focused on how we can build out the membership so we have more folks represented.

Thank you. Any questions?

Thank you.

Melissa?

Hello, how are you? I'm good. Thank you. I'm Melissa Aber. I live in Oakdale This is would be my second term on the Commission and as everyone has stated before me it's been a really fantastic just to get to know other people in the community and be able to help individuals with disabilities. I am also the mother of a child with disability he has both physical and intellectual challenges. And I grew up with a parent with a physical disability, so it's been a part of Me and my life for its entirety. And I'm just committed to helping people in the best way possible. As Heather had stated, anyone can join being disabled at any time in their life. And it's just something that you have to be...

forward-looking, and also helping the people who need help right now no matter what their age from children to seniors. So it's been fantastic and I would love to be reappointed Thank you.

Any questions? All right, we've heard from four great volunteers who wish to continue their work. What is the wish of the board?

I mean, Mr. Chairman just for clarification there were five positions available Vicki Berg a very long time member of the Commission has chosen not to seek reappointment. So four of the five candidates are here and were the only other applicants for appointment. I will be posting Vicki's position after your decision this evening.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. I move to approve the appointments of Heather, Melissa, Bernie and Helen on the Commission on Disability for three-year terms to expire in 2029.

Is there a second in the discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor. Aye. Thank you and thank you for continuing to serve. Yes thanks so much for your work. Thanks for coming in tonight. You don't have to stay.

Good night, thank you so much.

Okay, next item on the agenda is public hearing discussion and vote request from Eversource Energy. New Pole, Booth Road. Welcome.

Hi, good evening.

Just introduce yourself.

Jackie Duffy Eversource, and do you want me to read the petition?

Yes, what you're looking to do please.

And Star Electric DBA Eversource Energy and Verizon would like to install a new pole in this work is necessary to eliminate an existing aerial trespass wire crossing.

Thank you. What does that mean?

It means it was going over someone else's property, their service.

Okay.

So we had to put a new pole so it wouldn't go over there.

and there's no other poll. This is a single poll, but there's not other poll that's there, right? No. It's a new one?

It's the new one.

Any questions?

I don't have a question on this poll, no.

Thank you. This is a public hearing. Is there anybody online that wants to weigh in? and I'll leave the double poll conversation. So entertain a motion to close the public hearing? So moved. Is there a second?

Second.

Discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Thank you, what's the wish of the board?

move to approve the placement of a new pole on Booth Road as presented by Eversource Energy and Verizon New England. Second.

Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Thank you. Thanks for coming in. Appreciate it.

Fun time.

Next item on the agenda is public hearing discussion, change of corporate name, structure offices of Whole Foods Market Group.

Hi, I am attorney Margo Gillis with McDermott Quilty Miller and Hanley LLP in Boston. And I'm here on behalf of the licensee Whole Foods Market. The licensee is here for a change of corporate structure, change of Corporate Name and a change officers directors to LLC managers. So the Licensee Whole Foods Market Groups Inc converted from a corporation to an LLC becoming Whole Foods Market Group, LLC. And as a result they want to update their corporate name from Whole Foods Market Group, Inc. to Whole Foods market group LLC and additionally they are changing from officers directors to LLC managers and that changes throughout the chain of ownership There are no changes to the day-to-day operations of the license, no change to hours or change to the manager record.

Thank you. And you're doing this to... all your Whole Foods stores.

Yeah, so they hold seven other licenses throughout the Commonwealth and we update them at the Board and ABCC.

Thank you. Questions? Is this a public hearing? Anybody? No.

to close the public hearing.

Is there a second? Second. Discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

What is the wish of the board?

move to approve a change of corporate name, change of the corporate structure and change of officers, directors LLC managers for Whole Foods Market Group Inc., DBA Whole Foods market 300 Legacy Place. Second.

Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Thank you.

Thank so much.

Yeah thank you. Cal Steve I miss him coming into my meetings.

Oh let him know. Have a good one.

Thanks you too. Okay, next item on the agenda is a discussion intermissible agreement with the Town of Westwood Animal Control Services.

with the discussion that had been ongoing, we gave them the authority to go back and continue to negotiate with Westwood. Westwood did come to an agreement with us that there would be Services provided at the rate of $10,000 contribution from Westwood for animal control services and that they would be escalation over the next couple years of the agreement. The terms of the do not vary from its original form with respect to the work that the Animal Control Office provides.

Okay, anybody have any questions on this?

Just a comment that I'm glad to see, the increased amount from the original draft. This agreement is in place for what term?

June, till 2029. It's three years. July 1st, 2026 to June 30th, 2029

and if their call volume were to change significantly, is there any provision in the contract that would allow for renegotiation?

It does allow for a few, section 16 allows for us to take a look at the work via an audit to see what amount of time is that it's being spent. and I do believe that there is an opportunity for us to speak with them about that.

Okay, thank you.

Anybody else? Mr. Wish of the board?

move to approve the renewal of an inter-municipal agreement with the Town and Westward to provide animal control services. Second.

Any discussion? Mr.

Chair, just in addition, furthering on Erin's comment under Section 7 Annually, the town shall review and calculate Westwood's per ton of share for the preceding fiscal year. And then the assessment shall be adjusted to reflect Westwood proportional share moving forward. So I just want to, I think that's very fiscally Prudent on behalf of the town and I appreciate the work of the Town Manager and staff to get that included.

Thank you. Great, thank you. Anything else? Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Aye. Thank you. Opposed? Okay. Moving on, next item believe it or not Discussion and vote for the fall town meeting November 16th, 26. Nancy?

Yes, Mr. Chairman, a town meeting will be November 16th, 2026 this year, Monday, November 16 With that date and the calendar that is necessary to meet all of the deadlines, I'm recommending that a select board vote close the warrant on Friday, August 28th. Close of business on Friday August 28, 2026.

Is there a motion?

Moved to set the date to close the warrant for the November 16, 2026 Fall Annual Town Meeting at the Close of Business on Friday August 28th to 2026.

I do have just one comment. We second and then we'll... Oh, second. Second, yes. Sorry, second comment. If we could say the week before or even now, just make sure that notice goes out to the community when the book closes because it's so early and late summer. A lot of people may not be realizing that they need to pay attention to a date coming up. So letting people know that the warrant closes

So just as is every year, I have three emails scheduled to go out tomorrow morning to all committees. Fantastic. The department heads and any other agency in the town with the authority to submit an article goes to the town meeting chairs, district chairs who then share with their membership. It'll be in the paper next Friday. Unfortunately I missed tomorrow's paper and we generally ask them to run that one or two times for us because it is the end of summer The way the timing of the calendar goes, we just have to meet all those deadlines leading up. We do our best to get the word out and I'll ask you to run it every Friday between now and the deadline

Great. And I've been enjoying the new texts that are going out, so if that could be included in the text update?

Sure. Anything Amanda sends out via email will be going out to anybody that has signed up for the text.

Great. Thank you.

I don't remember to do that. Thanks for reminding me. Do you want just remind folks what that is if they're just hearing that for the first time?

Yes, was it two weeks ago maybe? The Town launched a new service that you can sign up for. I think I scanned some kind of QR code somewhere. so you can sign up to get town news via text on your phone and it's not intrusive. It's not like there's a text all the time, I don't know if it's a summary once or twice a week. I think I've been getting a text that's very helpful and a great way to get notice of what's happening in town easily on our devices.

Mr.

Chair, just to piggyback I know Nancy just mentioned it's going to the town meeting chairs and this is sort of a side Very quick tangent, but where we collect the emails from town meeting members it would be wonderful if we could explore a distribution list so that residents, and us or anyone really could send it to P1 at dedhamma.gov through P7 or TMM at dedhama.gov rather than rely on the precinct chairs Pass that on when we already have their information, but also just sort of streamlining it. I feel like that's maybe a smaller tweak and it may not be possible with our current setup so If it's not, no worries. But just if it is, it just feels like something that would make it easier for constituents to reach out to their town meeting members and just for information to be shared a little bit easier where the information already exists. So I just wanted to plug that thought in.

Good suggestion. Thank you. All right, next item on the agenda is... Oh, I'm sorry. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Thank you All right, next item on the agenda a few minutes early but that's okay. Select board talk about potential target zones, liquor license availability So the reason for this agenda item is that the town, in the reconciliation with ABCC of licenses has has available licenses right now. And as we get into the process of advertising, I thought it would be a good idea for the board to have a refresher

and as you can see that Brian and Lauren are here from KP Law to sort of give an overview of the licensing authority that we have and what's going to be coming up. I did send to everyone the ABCC does outreach as well, and I sent you two Two PowerPoints that they utilize not only for the compliance issues, but also for the licensing issues. and at some point they said they would be willing to come back in and maybe do a regional training for not just the town of Dedham, but for some other towns surrounding. I'm going to stop talking and let the experts come on up and have a seat and introduce themselves.

Oh, okay.

Thank you both.

Well thank you Mr. Chair and members of the board it's good to see Lauren Goldberg KP Law I have with me my colleague Brian Reilly who is truly the expert on licensing but we have talked about this a bunch and so we're both gonna sit up here and answer any questions you have.

Ryan? Okay, we can... That's the standard disclaimer that we're just doing sort of an overview, and there could be some funny nuances with particular licenses. So yeah, introduction. So we're just going to talk briefly and happy to take questions as well on some of the different kinds of licenses, special act licenses. The town has received some of those from the legislature over the years. some standards for evaluating applications, which mostly come from the appeals court. Looking at public need and that's again part of the board's discretion in deciding is this a good spot, is this not a good. A little bit about appeals if you get an application and you deny it for

one or more reasons, that applicant does have the authority to appeal within five business days to the ABCC. they hold an administrative hearing. It's not like going to court, but they do hold a hearing and they can either affirm the board's decision or deny it if they don't think you had good enough reasons. And then a little bit about licenses that are either returned because maybe a business goes out of business or lapsed, like it expires and they didn't act on it. Okay. So the liquor laws are in chapter 138 of the general laws. In section 17 of that chapter,

every city and town Boston is a little different now but basically every city in town has a particular number of licenses for on-premises which is restaurants and bars, pouring licenses or off-premises package store licenses. And it's calculated by the population of the city or town. I will note that section 12 is on premises, typically restaurants but also bars or pubs. This isn't specifically on the notice, on the slide. But I would just reference club licenses. These are also pouring licenses things like, you know, AMVETS various private clubs like that. There's two differences between those licenses and the ones under the quota.

One, club licenses do not count towards the quota but also you have to be formally registered one of these clubs and you can only serve members of the club or their guests. It's not open to the general public.

Brian, can I just jump in quickly to say? So we know you have a number of statutory licenses. And you do have all of those kinds including the club license. and the way that the laws apply to renewals, issuance and denials, et cetera is going to be the same as it is with these special act licenses. But the most important thing is that these are not location specific. They can be used anywhere. and they just remain available. So when someone stops using it, Brian's gonna talk about giving them back. It comes back to the town and it can be issued anywhere else in town as compared to he's going to talk about special licenses. And those are location-specific, Legacy Place or Dedham Square and those can't be used in other places. So if it comes back to the town, it goes... It can only go back in that particular area.

Okay, so section 15 is your off-premises licenses. You're allowed to sell alcohol, you're not allowed to consume it there. So that's liquor stores, maybe a supermarket at kind of a variety of places now Section 14, they're called special licenses. They're generally referred to as one-day licenses. I'm sure you get applications for those if somebody wants to hold a special event. if it's, let's just say a neighborhood party or maybe a wedding reception or something along those lines they can only get a beer and wine one. It has to be a registered charitable organization to get an all alcohol one day You can actually get up to 30 days during a year, but we still call them one day licenses. and then special act licenses on this slide. That's what we're referring to when you get a bill gets passed by the legislature and signed by the governor

and the legislature enacts many of these every year. Typically it is because a city or town has reached their quota and they would like to be able to issue more. The only way to do that is to go to the legislature as a town, you would need a vote of town meeting authorizing this board to file that but as I said, you do have some of those over the years. They are typically location specific. I was looking at some of your your previous acts. The one from 2006 is kind of interesting, it was for Isabella's in Dedham Square I don't know if that's still around? No longer. That was sort of...

But the address is there. Yeah, exactly. The address specific.

Right. Yeah that's in there and that was also the act that granted a bunch of licenses for Legacy Place.

That was the deal.

and similarly if somebody wants to transfer it to another business or they're going out of business on one of those, you can only issue it to someone else in Legacy Place. and let's see.

And just lately, Brian maybe I'm aging myself but maybe the past 10 or 15 years the legislature has been are relatively unwilling to just issue open-ended authority to issue licenses. And that's why in the bills you've seen at town meeting, they have a particular business and a particular location before that, it was much more open-ended. You could just get five all alcoholic beverages licenses so they're each reviewed more specifically and they can state that they are just for a specific business, meaning if that business goes out of business the license goes away. It's not available to anyone else so when town meeting votes That's the kind of thing that we're looking at when we're making a request for additional licenses. Are we asking for it forever, at that particular location? In which case,

to be able to authorize it even if that business at issue goes out of business.

Right. And the town can craft it the way it wants and see if they can get it through the legislature, you can have it so it's tied to that one address Legacy Place is slightly different, it could be various places in Legacy Place. but it all depends on how that act is worded. Let's see, I think that's all for that slide. So some of the standards, let's say you get an application for a license, brand new place, brand-new business. and it's a location where there isn't one already. The ABCC really leans on this Ballarin versus Boston case from 2000 appeals court. In that case, someone was denied. They went to the ABCC.

and then the ABCC issued its decision, and that was appealed. And it ended up in the appeals court. The appeals court First of all, they said they didn't think the licensing board or Boston's decision held up. They didn't they had good reasons for the denial. But the court went on to list these bullet points of appropriate things that they think a licensing authority should look at, and the ABCC leans heavily on these. tons of their decisions over denial appeals say, well you didn't consider the Ballarin factors. So it is important if you get in a brand new location. As it says, you can look at the number of existing licenses in the area

it's a perfectly appropriate decision for the board to say well there's already three restaurants you know within half a mile and we'd like to have some licenses available on the other side of town that were open to get more commercial business there. The type of existing licenses, as I say maybe three restaurants all in the same block you can say, well it's saturated there are too many licenses here already. If it happens to be a restaurant license and there is already a package store that's not really the same thing totally different license obviously different rules The views of the inhabitants of the neighborhood, you can take that into consideration. You're looking at sort of the public good. Is this going to be a good spot and what do people think?

I would say the ABCC's position is likely that if that's the only con that there is for the application and everything else looks good, maybe just the fact that the neighbors don't like it is not a particularly strong case, but you can always give it a try. And then just the area, what's the building like? What's traffic going to be? Is it too much noise for what the neighborhood is like? You know, is this a big giant business or is it a neighborhood cafe? and the reputation of the applicant. If you have dealt with them before or if you find out something, maybe they had a license revoked few towns over that's also okay to consider. I did have one once on the traffic point. I did go to the ABCC once where the board had denied it because where they wanted to put this thing there hadn't been a restaurant there before.

and it was right on a very busy corner on kind of this sweeping curve, and the parking lot was small. And it really was not a particularly safe place to get in and out of. and the board didn't like it, and they denied it. And fortunately when we were at the ABCC they actually had some accident reports from the police department so they could point to us as you know this is not just us This is documented that this is not a great place, and the ABCC agreed that was sufficient. So yeah, when you get a new location keep the Ballarin case in mind.

Brian is this the kind of thing where they would discuss all of this at a public hearing? Or they'd have a public here and to get that the neighborhoods position and then all of these things would go into the discussion and considerations, and then be part of a decision.

Yes. For a new location, the statute requires that there be a newspaper advertisement which the applicant pays for The applicant is also responsible for getting a butters list from the assessors and sending out letters so they all know about it. And yeah, it's a public hearing and the board. Obviously, the board wants to hear from the applicant but you're certainly entitled to recognize people in the audience who come up and want to be heard in favor or against. You get both. but yes, definitely a public hearing.

And the accident report example would that be something that would be put into evidence during the hearing? Is that the type of thing are persuasive to the ABCC when it's reviewing a decision?

Yes, yes. We would... Yeah, if we know a hearing is coming up and we're asked to kind of weigh in early, you know, we encourage more often than not what we're involved in more like a violation, serving minors being open at 3 o'clock in the morning or something. In which case usually the police department's there anyway But yeah, you want to kind of build your facts to support your decision if it's going to be a denial. As Lauren said the statutory licenses meaning the ones that you get based on population your quota, not location specific. Those can go virtually anywhere. I mean you want it to be zoned commercial and that sort of thing But again, the licensing authority which is you. You look at this as getting some quotes from this Ballarin case. The public want and public need

Is this a good spot for one of these limited number of licenses to go? Is it an appropriate location based on other buildings that are around? Is there a daycare center right next door? You could certainly consider that. and again the number of licenses in that area. Let's see, I know we're gonna talk a bit about coming up with a target area, perhaps. That's certainly one way to do it and if you have a designated development area that's really going be a good factor in your decision. Strictly speaking, you can make that decision on your own if, again, you've got one area where there's a whole bunch of licenses already.

Now someone else wants to come and get in the middle of it, and you're getting low on your licenses, and really hoping that commercial area over here would have something available if somebody comes and applies for it that is a reasonable basis. You just have to be able to kind of back it up looking, you know, We go to the ABCC and we put in a map saying, well here's all the other restaurants right there. They want to go right there and we're trying to get some over here. That's a positive thing to back up the board's decision if they happen to deny it.

One of the things that Brian and I were talking about was that part of the work you would do at a public hearing when an application was submitted is to look at all these different things if you were to consider creating kind of an economic target development zone, you're doing some of that work now and that would be part of whatever decision that you made whether you were denying something else or approving it. it would be good if you're going to do that, to really identify why that area is appropriate for potential licenses and as we were saying document there's other areas in town so many licenses that these few areas really stand out. And again, then you kind of input or bring all of that discussion and decision-making into the decisions that you would make on a case by case basis.

So just because it's in a zone wouldn't make it automatically approved, or approvable and just because it's in a different zone where there's already some saturation wouldn't automatically mean it couldn't be approved. So you still have to go through on a case-by-case basis with every application. but it's a lot of the upfront work.

So we're going to get into that sort of discussion after you go through this because we have the map, The points, we're going to put it up and we'll have a discussion.

Lauren mentioned this but I think we're into decades now where the general court has felt almost all the time if they get one of these, they're quite willing to grant them but almost always they want it tied to, if not an address something like Legacy Place or maybe you've got Maybe you've got some sort of encouraging development area. I know Dedham's part of MAPC, maybe you worked with them on coming up with something like that? I'm not even 100% sure what the reason is, but they still want to see that. Okay, briefly just the last couple of things. The appeals as I mentioned if you get an application in and you decide it's just not a good place, not a great applicant something wrong with it you can deny it. You have to issue a written decision

and when they get it, the applicant has five business days to appeal to the ABCC. I would say typically within a month maybe a month-and-a-half, they will hold this administrative hearing After that, it's anybody's guess how long you're going to wait for a decision. It could be six or eight months. and as this mentioned, the case law out there says that the state agency gives you reasonable deference. They're not just gonna overrule you because they feel like it are going to give deference to your opinion. They're gonna look at the facts that you offer to defend it, So that's very important also to put right in the written decision because that's the first thing ABCC is going to look at. We also I typically like to have a board member come along to those hearings to speak on behalf of the Board.

It kind of backs it up and puts a face to the Board who made this decision. either party, the town or the applicant. If they don't like the decision of ABCC you can go to superior court within 30 days of that decision and that the deference to the ABCC is pretty strong in that case. The court has to say it was an arbitrary decision or the ABC committed an error of law, which they're not going to do much but that is available. So we wanted to just talk a minute about Honestly, returned or lapsed licenses don't come up that often. Typically you've got a business and they're doing okay so they are going to renew their license for the following year

or if for any reason they got a better opportunity in the next town, or the people are retiring and they want someone else to take it on. Typically you're gonna see an application to transfer that license rather than it expiring. But the statute says renewal applications have to come in November, and as long as that's in order, and the name of the business is the same. The name of their manager is the it's the same location As long as that all comes in November, it's about as close to an automatic renewal as there is in the general laws. You would have to hold a hearing if you think something's really wrong here and to have a reason to deny. If they'd missed the November deadline, which happens occasionally, they file it in December

They're still allowed to apply for that license, but the rules for a brand new application kick in. That's what the statute says. So they have newspaper advertisement, notice to abutters and that whole nine yards. Oh, and a lapse license would be if for whatever reason maybe they just decided they're going to close up shop in January anyway. If they don't get the renewal in on time and they don t get approved in December, as of January 1 that license has expired because it's always calendar year. in which case it would be available for the board to give to somebody else on an application for a new license. And of course, you have the difference between the statutory quota license which can go anywhere or the special act license.

If it's a legacy place license for example and it just doesn't get renewed and expires That's available, but obviously only a legacy place. I think that's about all I have for slides. Yeah so why don't we hear from you Jim?

So go back to that last slide. Just one question before I open it up to the board. Okay. So we talk about the renewal process. If a business ceases to operate, Now, we're so close to November. It's the 60 days and so forth. Just sort of review for the board. What is the process to... And I'm going to use the word... and take a license from somebody that has ceased to do business. Could you just talk about that? Because I think people, there might be some... There's couple that have stopped and I think it's important that everybody understand what this board's capability and responsibility is?

Yeah, sure. So this is partly addressed in Chapter 138 and partly kind of the ABCCs, the way they like to see things done So section 77 of the chapter says that after a hearing, the board can cancel these. The word cancel rather than revoke. Cancel a license if it has ceased to exercise the license so their doors are closed They're not using it. And that could be for a variety of reasons, you know? Maybe they had a fire in the building, maybe someone's sick, anything. But the ABCC encourages licensing authorities not to allow these pocket licenses, somebody's got it and they're not selling alcohol with it. Not to let those linger on. So you hold a hearing and bring the people in. There was a court case, this is going back decades now

that said somebody had appealed the ABCC's decision and the court said, well... The licensing authority should give someone in that situation who's not exercising it, they should... Give them some warning. Give them a chance to either reopen or apply to transfer it to somebody else and in this case, the board gave them six months notice. And we think that was reasonable. The ABCC kind of took that and said you have to give them at least six months' notice so we get questions like that And so what I tell them is the ABCC is really hard on this. I mean, I've seen him say, well you only gave me five and a half months notice. So I say if they've been closed for a while and they're not answering you correctly, give me any information about it.

put it in a letter from the board saying, you've been closed for nine months. We need to see this license get exercised again So we want to see you either let us know, are you going to reopen or are you gonna transfer it? And if not, we reserve the right to act on this license and get that letter to them. and then you can calendar it for six months. And if they're still closed or you haven't heard from them, then you can schedule a hearing and say, You have to come in. We're going to consider that you've been closed for a year and a half and depending on what the board decides, we may cancel your license for failure to exercise. Thank you. That's the long answer.

No, that's what I was looking for. Thank you. All right, we're going to open it up to board questions before we get into the next... Next conversation on the map, whatever the board wants to do. Any questions for Ryan or Lauren?

I get so many. I don't know if I should start or not. You're still moving. I could take the rest of the meeting. Go start it, yeah. Let me just do a few of them anyway. Sure, just do couple of them. The most recent one from something you just said. This is all very new to me so forgive me. So in a situation where business is closing or not using their license, you just listed and like the notice we would give them that the word transfer. So is that like if another business is coming in, it can be transferred to that and that doesn't go through us so we have no say in that?

Oh no. You always had a say. The kind of different things that can happen is the people who have the license now, they don't want to run the restaurant anymore. They have someone lined up to come in and move it at that same place. The current holder applies for a transfer to the new one. Occasionally, somebody might say well I have my restaurants here but I just had a better situation on the other side of town and so I want to apply it to transfer to myself but at a different location. and then the third one is I'm not going to be open anymore, I want to transfer it to somebody else on the other side of town. but those are all transfers. They all must be approved by this board and the ABCC before it can happen.

El Centro was an example.

Mr. Chair, can I just add something? I think it's important to understand that Chapter 138 imposes a lot of procedural requirements and protections. Liquor licensing is highly regulated and you all are the local licensing authority. So, the first decision is yours the amount of discretion you have may vary depending on what the subject matter is. A transfer at the same location to a person who's worked there for ever and ever versus a transfer to a totally new person across town. Those are different scenarios, but you all still get to make that decision. And then as Brian mentioned it's not just you then then the ABCC looks at it and says, was that reasonable? Was it rational? So this whole licensing process is intended to allow local control as an initial

stop, and then to make sure the state's saying was this done correctly? Were they playing favorites? Were not playing favorites. Were they excluding someone or were they including someone? when they handled 10 other things really differently, and that Ballarin case that Brian mentioned is a perfect example. Basically Boston had like a policy that said within if there's more than six licenses within I think it was one mile, it might have been 1-1⁄2 then we don't grant licenses. They did grant one to somebody and they didn't grant one because there were like three and a half mile, which wasn't their standard. And then when they went to the ABCC, the ABC said yeah that's not rational you need to have a better defense and they put forward a new defense which was something like We meant the whole Charles Street area. We didn't just mean on Charles Street. And the court said, I mean, the courts said that's not good enough. I mean ABCC said that is not good

And then it was appealed and the court said, no this is irrational. You're acting in an arbitrary and capricious way. So it's intended to make sure that there isn't arbitrary and capacious decision making. There's a check first on just anybody walking in off the street and getting a license. Then there's a cheque on the local licensing authority to make sure that it's been done in a fair way, and then there's still the opportunity after that if Town or Local Licensing Authority, or an applicant feels like the decision was flawed for some reason.

Go ahead. So in terms of notifications, I think we're having this conversation because we have several establishments that have closed and had licenses right? And so if they are seeking to transfer it is that kind of like first priority, or is there any notice that has to go out in case someone else wants to apply for it? Or can they only apply for if we say it's going out publicly? Like I don't know.

some, there's no requirement to sort of say hey we have you know two licenses available anybody wants to apply but you can. One of our clients has sort of done that routinely, they put something on their website or whatever saying there's a license available. And there's nothing wrong with that either.

I think maybe if I could just reframe for one second, I think part of the question is if somebody is, let's say they are closing their business and they come in to transfer it. is that transferee, the application to transfer, do they get special priority? Or could the license be denied and then the license would be available and go somewhere else.

Let's say a thing has been closed for awhile and you're not sure what they are doing if they come in, even after maybe they get that first letter I was talking about then they file an application the license holder files an application to transfer it to somebody else Just like when you get an application for a new one, the board has to take that first. You can't just deny it because... because we want to advertise it and see what else we got. If an application comes in, you need to deal with that one first and either approve or deny.

Can I quickly follow up on that? We have obviously multiple licenses available. If there are more applicants than licenses, I mean, I have seen and as far as I know the ABCC is okay with this.

Let's say your advertised license is available and you get three applications in for different places. I have seen the licensing board hold a hearing on all three right in a row and they close them, and they debate which one they think is best using those Ballarin factors. Well you know this ones in the side of town we're really hoping to see be up and coming. The other two There's plenty of licenses there already. And so they approve one and deny the other two because there is no license available. That, I think is a reasonable argument. It's a reasonable position so you don't have to necessarily say well this came in the day before the other two You have to give them a hearing anyway, but you wouldn't necessarily have to hold that hearing, decide and then go to the other ones. So there's some flexibility.

Mr. Chair, if I may? would it be appropriate then, Brian if they were going to invite applications to just kind of explain ahead of time how they plan to process them, so that it wouldn't be a surprise to person number one that they might not get their application considered first versus doing it after the fact and try to explain after why they want to deal with it.

I think that's a great idea. We're looking for applications, hear from each one at a certain time. and evaluate which one's best for the town.

That's probably just a reasonable standard, yeah. Yeah. Good review.

And so it seems to me that we have some available that are related with businesses that are closing.

And I guess, like... No. Maybe now is the time to talk about what licenses we have available because there's two restaurants that are closed are not a part of the discussion we're going to be having. Okay. The two recent ones.

Okay, and just understanding like the general versus the ones because even the ones that in my mind are related with businesses I don't know if those are site specific or business specific or part of areas that have been approved

Why don't we, if you want before we get into Do you want to answer that now or do you wanna continue?

Whenever you all think makes sense.

So if you have other, let's just continue with the questions here.

Okay then come back to them.

And then come because we have, Nancy has these specific places that are on the map.

Mr. Chair I think maybe it's useful to think about a license isn't available necessarily just because it's not being exercised. So there is a difference when we say licenses that are available, it means no one has a claim too they don't belong to anyone. They haven't been issued to anyone as compared to somebody who holds a license but isn't exercising it, they still hold the license so it's not available to give to someone else and the way Brian just described, you could cancel it using that process. But until it's canceled it still belongs to the licensee. So when you say available, it means licenses that have not been issued.

A couple that I think will be rapid fire. Any other special legislation tied to an address, and I probably should know this, the town could petition to change that address, correct? Sure. In terms of... Could we, in terms of the economic development or looking at a specific type, could it be like we want to prioritize mixed-use developments or standalone development? Things like that can be. That was just an open question. oh okay and then just sort of now this maybe think of this can our license as a condition like ensure that when there is going to be a transfer that they have to publish that publicly or is that completely at their discretion

I'm trying to think. There's all kinds of different applications having to do with these licenses, and I'm I know if it's a transfer to a new location, that has to be advertised in a better notice.

Transfer in general even if it is at the same location has to

picking the transferee? Like if they wanted it to be... Oh, I see what you're saying.

No. It's more when they actually file the state application to transfer the license. Yeah. Thank you.

Erin.

Well, I just have a general question around you hear of businesses selling their license to another business. What allows for that to happen?

I've had to answer that many times, because licensing boards aren't crazy about the whole idea.

I don't know why it's a public permit.

So what the ABCC says... is that the statute and state regulations just don't even reference that. So they say, that's out of our jurisdiction. and so, I mean you hear this happen in Boston with $400,000. So what happens? And it does, it happens really in any town all its licenses are out and somebody wants to come in, so they start talking to the restaurants and saying would you be willing to sell me your license? So it's legal. I believe typically the way those two parties do it is they say, look we'd like to buy your business. And we're willing to not only by the building, we're willing to pay you X for the liquor license. And so they have this

deal on the side and say, we're going to pay you $50,000 for your license contingent on it getting the transfer being approved locally and at the ABCC. And if that happens then they change, pay money. But there's nothing against that and the ABCC says it's not our deal.

And that's not an area that municipalities can create policy around?

No, I really don't think so. It's a private transaction. Yeah, yeah.

So the interesting thing we were just talking about whether you could just say well could someone else apply for the transfer, but the licensee, the person who's been issued a license or the entity controls that. And so whatever happens to induce that person to want to make a transfer to the other person that's outside of what the board is looking at. I mean, you could deny a transfer because the reputation of the applicant or because they run other restaurants and there's problems there. Or they've had violations. And those are all legitimate reasons and that would kill whatever the deal was with the transfer kind of agreement behind the scenes. But it's a private transaction between private individuals, and the licensing board doesn't it's just not before you.

And so if we had some of these provisions that are allowable such as geography, et cetera would in theory would geography take precedent in that kind of transfer arrangement? So if you wanted to reissue that as a licensing board, that license and your economic development area and this transfer doesn't meet that requirement. Is that a valid?

Yeah, I would say yes. And it's maybe it's a stronger case if by transferring it over here you're going to an area that already has plenty of licenses. You know what I mean? Versus we'd like to keep it in this geographic area and not have it leave. It's reasonable, but the more facts you can have to say well this is why we want it here versus the place this new applicant wants it. But yeah, that's certainly a reasonable factor.

Those Ballarin factors are applied every time, whether it's a transfer or a brand new license. So all of those same issues would be relevant if it's in the same exact location and it was a going concern that was doing well, and they didn't have violations. It's gonna be harder to say no because of all the rest of the factors. So there would have to be something about the applicant you found inconsistent with the public good.

One of the issues with, Erin brings up the price of the license and that's it's the equity that they have built into their business and we've had them here up to $500,000 for a package store. because there was none available, and that's what it was worth to the entity that was looking for the license. But then conversely you have long established restaurants and businesses in town that sort of go up in arms when you do special legislation. because their point is, why did I have to spend $100,000, $200,000 for my license when you're giving them away? through the legislature to all these places that are just opening up. And I think that's part of the reason that the economic development

Zones, the chair of the committee in the Statehouse because we had five licenses. and we couldn't get any movement of them because we had no economic zone. And so I think that's what they use now, utilize that to sort of specify that when they grant these additional licenses Somebody's going to be upset in that community because they've already had those. But when you're trying to get somebody to move into an area, just sort of give it that bounce, that's why that is taken now and that's why one of the things we'll talk about is just for us to, not saying we have to create zones tonight but just sort of get a fundamental understanding of what is... We all know but when you look at it, it gives you sort of a different... It pops out.

But that was a good question on the money because it's also what somebody is willing to pay. If you have no other licenses, then that asset becomes really important. and as they were talking about the process, at the end of the day whatever we do as a licensing authority, we don't have the final say. The final say is the ABCC which then does a deeper dive into everything that we see in the application, and we have seen over the years of course stuff remanded back to us because there was some inconsistencies in the financing, in the background of people that are on the application including their ability to be on a corporate document. Is it someplace else? Should they or shouldn't they be on the documents so there's

There's a lot more deeper dive that goes with the ABCC investigators once we finish what we do.

I have just one general interest question. Why the difference between all alcohol and wine and malt?

Well, because of the statutes.

It's a relic. So why are you answering? When you answer Edmund's question, talk about the new legislation. that the town hasn't accepted yet. It has to transact.

The conversion? Yeah, that's... It's pretty new. But yeah, if you happen to have a wine and malt, wine and beer license and you're a restaurant If the town has accepted that, it kind of creates this way for you to trade that in and get an all alcohol one. I guess without quite being tied to the quota anymore. But yeah, I think a town meeting needs to accept that.

Those are relics. I mean, it's a relic from a time when alcohol was regulated more strictly and so there were more licenses for wine and beer and less all alcoholic because they were stronger spirits but what the result was, and it's related to this competition and the ability of these businesses to make money. And so the legislation allowed the conversion, but town meeting has to adopt the law to allow that. And then every single wine and beer licensee has the ability to essentially turn in their license and get an all-alcoholic beverages license. Not every town has adopted it, at least in theory, it hasn't been tested yet. It's not clear whether it applies to special act wine and malt licenses but we will see.

the license that is attached to that business reverts back to YNY. So they can't do a temporary upgrade and transfer it with that temporary upgrade, it reverts to the original license we issued and it then does not, if they do the upgrade we then don't have a Wyoming malt as part of our quota. That Wyoming malt still exists to that license and that's what it reverts to so we can't re-issue it. And as Lauren said, special legislative licenses that have been issued to date. We're not certain if those are included so that would be a separate acceptance or a separate ask that we would file with the legislature to allow, if asked, to allow the town to upgrade not only our general quota licenses but our special legislative licenses that may wish to seek an upgrade.

and we are aware of at least one other town with special act licenses who's pursued special legislation for that purpose. it could be that the ABCC decides, that it believes the law can be applied more broadly or the legislature could refine the law that they already approved. It's always possible, especially if they see multiple special acts, that can happen or it might continue to be on a case by case basis. Regardless, it requires town meetings approval in the first instance So no matter what, it would come to town meeting.

I think we might have more questions as going on. Michelle?

I think we can go ahead with what you were saying.

Okay, so can we throw the map up? Amber please? Yes. So thanks for Amber and the GIS and ANSI, all the folks that sort of helped put together all the data that everybody has received with probably more than we really wanted to know, but I think it's important that we have all the information available. So what we have on the map, and we all have copies so it's easier for us to read. I don't know if you can read this copy here if you want it instead of... So what has been done is the liquor license map in color coded, the all alcoholic off premises six. All alcohol on premises 39.

Wine & Malt, Off Premises 4, Wine and Malt On-Premise 11. So off premise means it's a packing store. And so usually the wine and malt, as you'll see on the map are in various parts of the town mostly stores supermarkets and the like, and the wine and malt that everyone was just referencing. you know, those that just have the wine and malt in cordials because you can do cordials with the wine in malt. Those are shown on the map as well but I think as we as we all look, and I know it's tough to see that on the screen for those that are watching or will be watching.

We definitely know where the majority of those licenses are. And we see the Legacy Place, and we see the Dedham Square area, Route 1. And where we don't see is of course in some other parts of the town. We know down in the manor there's two, I'm not sure the one in Oakdale Square Is that Package Store?

Dedham Convenience. That's still there, okay.

Package and then as you go far left Going down, you can see Needham. I think is that The Country and Polo Club, which is the all-alcohol. That one dot up in the left there if you follow on the westward line that's the country polo, and then if you look around in that general area there is nothing. The other dot that is sort of in the middle off of Common Street. Is that the MIT? That's the MIT house, okay? Which again, that's a private location that has events. So when you look at the map

On the left is highly anything. and when you look down the middle, you see all the color codes. To the right there's only a few so we can see where the concentrations of the businesses are, of course that's in the business zone and then if you get down to the, I think that's Riverdale. You have the three so you have The Brick House, right? Then you have Mosley's and then you have Waterford's. So just giving everybody an idea, so we talk about is there any particular area of town that we think we should sort of talk about being a target zone. For example, one area that I looked at was from Jersey Mike's, you know down to the Boston line. You know that triangle?

You have the Midway vacant who knows who knows what's going to happen there. You have that area there and then we go if you go to Halfway. I'm talking about on this side, not on the other side. The other side you have the halfway and you have old sod. And then if you get down to East Dedham There's nothing from Buzzy Street to the Boston line all the way down East Milton to the boston line. so and it is a lot of other stuff in between but I just throw that out there for us to you know sort of have a conversation what does the board think we should do something shouldn't do something wait and see and open up a conversation

Can I just have a quick question about that, if that's okay? When we talk about an area and if we targeted a new area are we talking about petitioning for additional licenses or are we doing something with these ones that are available or becoming available.

These ones that are coming available, not for new legislation. Unless of course somebody came and said they're going to build a mixed use like Steven had mentioned and I need to put a restaurant on the bottom floor and that's what I need in order to get it done. And that's how Legacy Place was done. We can't build unless we have the licenses, and that why the legislators give it. So just for now... of what do we want to do with the two licenses that we have available, the alcoholic license. Then we have one beer and wine and then one beer and wine package?

One beer and a wine on-site, one beer at my office.

So can I pull out just a little bit? Sure. We're having this discussion because we have four licenses that are not appropriated yet. and they're the only four licenses that we have available now. Do we anticipate more than four applicants for these licenses? And so we're having this discussion just about those four licenses, or are we looking for something that would expand to a broader policy?

I think just those four licences for now because that's what's going to be coming in front of us. in that anticipating, I know there has been some inquiries for licenses for the last months about what do you have? Don't know who they're representing or who they are from. So I think until we put something out there, we're not going to know who.

And so the idea is that we're having a discussion about language that could be built into the notice that these are available?

That's an open question. Do we put in a notice? Do we just have a conversation for what we're going to be doing when the applications come and sort of not knowing where they're gonna be. I'm not saying we, I don't think I heard council say you put it into the and so on. that we're just throwing something on somebody, that we as a board have had a conversation about what potentially we could do. What area do we think an area could get you know, a benefit from it? Do we think not? So those are all sort of open-ended questions but to start the conversation tonight in anticipation that we get I don't know how many

And when do we anticipate needing to post for these open licenses?

That's a good question. We've had a number of inquiries from folks that are interested in licenses that are available,

That was one of my questions is if there's any parameters around our timeline. So earlier, there was a comment about like the six-month thing but that was when somebody's not using it. If they're already available and just sitting unused do we have some obligation to hold hearings or put out a call for them?

I wouldn't say obligation, but you could just... on the website or somewhere.

But someone could just apply and then we'd have to act on it?

Then you'd have consider that application, yeah.

And when someone's applying what if any what details did they have to have or what level of readiness, I guess. So I'm thinking like we were picked an area right? I'm assuming someone can't come in and say well I want to build a new building there and I want a license. Like does it have to be an existing establishment like a space that even

The section 12, which is the on-premises restaurant actually says right in it if there I'm paraphrasing. If the structure is not there, they have to give you a plan to show exactly here's how big it's going to be, here's the kitchen area, these are the tables you know, here's a patio if we want to serve outdoors. It actually writes that right in so someone can say look I'm I'm ready and willing to build this project, but I'm gonna have to have a restaurant license on the back. And you can grant that if you think it looks good and feasible.

So as we're thinking about area, if we choose to think about an area, we may want to be thinking about the readiness of that area to host a restaurant.

Yeah, I'm just curious. We look at the map and obviously there are clusters. So my question is, are those clusters because that's meeting the interest in the need for where businesses want to establish liquor licenses? or is it not congruent with interest and need? Are there only three over in Riverdale because knowing the business is there, there's just a lack of... a volume of restaurants that might be looking to. So I'm just trying to match interest and need as part of this discussion. versus geography outside of knowing you know more clearly if this what we see like represents interest and need.

Yeah, so just as an example I'm thinking like a place like Riverdale that has three but there's been some new developments there so there may be have more ability and interest there than there was before in new businesses. So does that help the economics there to add them? I'm not taking a position, I'm just kind of throwing out the factors that we would be thinking of because like you're saying, the map is like this now, but maybe some circumstances have changed.

and are there any other designations either with planning or otherwise of zones in town that are targeted for development?

Not that I'm aware of. Again, we would have the conversation before and talk to the planning department or planning board to see if they know of anything. I'm not aware of any mixed use that's coming in. I know down where Mosley's is, they had another on-site neighborhood meeting but he has a license so whatever they decide to do if he's going to put a restaurant in there he already has an existing license. Because it's site specific? Because it is Mosley's, no because when he bought the property the license was transferred from from Mosley's to the other entity.

And we already approved that? Yes. I remember that meeting, okay.

So you have that sort of, so that's set down there. But we don't know.

Which is interesting given this discussion because I guess I hadn't thought about it's an inactive license and it's been inactive, what was that? A year or more ago. And it'll be what amount of time until a business new business opens there so I think readiness is a consideration. Sure, yeah sure.

So I think the comment about involving planning department and economic development, I think would be really important. In addition to what we were just talking about Riverdale there is on that reuse legacy committee and obviously a lot of Far down the road, but there is the project that is further along like the Nordblum Project. I don't know if that's included in the legacy, site-specific or that's beyond that. So there are a lot of questions to see where it might help with the success of projects that are in the books and works.

and I think where that helps is if you get four applications for two sites. Then when we're debating and talking about what are the reasons that you would say yes to two as in, as the justification? Is it an economic development? Is it the site area? That's where it becomes important because when you say no to the other two, The yes is going to sort of carry you because that's when they... Somebody's going to appeal if you say no, potentially. I'm not saying they will. Potentially they'll appeal because we didn't do something right. The reason wasn't... wasn't something that is acceptable within the industry. So that's why when you talk about, is there a place that's going to build and put it there? That would be...

that would be one of the reasons why we would say, we potentially could say yes or potentially it could say no because they're not ready but you know what somebody else has a building here and they're ready to go And that's why we're going to have counsel sitting in on our hearings, because I think it's a... Because this is something that is new. and in my time on the board we have rejected one, maybe not. One that I remember that was overturned by the ABCC.

I remember

So I mean, I would say readiness rather than a specific geography. I would alignment with approved planning board projects or alignments with with planning board decision-making or strategic... That could be one of the criteria. Yeah.

Or an existing district.

Yeah, and I guess that's why I'm using the word alignment because it doesn't mean that just because you're developing a new project that means that there's an interest and a need for that in that spot. But that alignment allows for discussion about...

economic development goals, which can be both a success of existing businesses and the success of upcoming businesses. I just missed somebody said we were talking about four available licenses to all alcohol that are on site? Am I right, and what are the other ones?

We have two full alcohol on-premise licenses. We have one wine and malt on premise and we have one wine model.

Steve. So I guess just in terms of not really sure necessarily right now on like economic development zone or sort of a strategy, The only thing that I would hope is that we do sort of consider these all in one hearing or multiple hearings and just if we can make that as clear as possible on and communications going on, just that we're aware of that. I think that makes a lot of sense how you describe that process. If we get four applicants for the two licenses, we hear all four and then we decide to permanently give them to two.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

And we can control that. Yes.

I know that was a lot. Thank you, everyone. It's new. but it's something that doesn't happen. It doesn't often to a community that has the opportunity to bring in really, you know four new businesses or two to assist for businesses that need something to generate for this economy.

And just one last question. Do we have the opportunity to think about and plan for a policy that we routinely follow when making these types of decisions?

We can work with council. I think policies slash guidelines that we can follow, I think we could work with the council and come up with something.

Yeah, I would want to work with council as well as the planning department and just other departments that touch upon economic development. Yes, we can.

Thank you. Mr.

Chair, one quick question. There are There's at least one relatively recent restaurant that has ceased operation. Is that something we as the board should consider putting that notification out and starting that six month timer?

Well, I often tell them maybe they've closed because they're redoing the inside of the place so you know it's only going to be a couple months. That's one thing if they tell you that. if it sort of has closed and you're really not sure what's going on, I actually would recommend sending them a letter just saying, please update us on the status because the state tells us not to allow licenses not being exercised for an extended period of time. and then if you get silence for six months, then you can consider holding a hearing to take it back. So I think it's a good idea because you also may spur them to say oh, we're not gonna reopen let's try to transfer it to somebody else.

I think we can see if we could do that. There has been outreach to two of those businesses and one of them had some legal issues that need to be worked out between parties, but I think we can send a formal letter of Nancy to both establishments that have recently closed their doors.

Yeah, that's the only way to start the clock.

We also have three months until renewal season and that's going to sort of force their hand on what they're of what they're going to do.

Brian, do we have a form of letter that we could send to Nancy for that?

Yeah.

You shouldn't have to dream it up.

Thank you very much. All right.

Thank you.

Before we get to the executive session, which we will see Lauren in a few minutes, any older new business?

Oh, so I found the phone number for people to text to sign up for town texts. Amber is going to pull it up on the screen for everyone to see. It's from the town's Instagram post, and so you can text the number 1-866-984 9846, text the word Dedham and it will sign you up. That's 1-866-984-9846. The word Dedham, text the word Dedhum. Can you increase the size of the above?

Great. Thank you. Thanks. All the new business.

No, no additional. Thank you for that.

Stephen?

Just a general reminder that round two of the veterans banners, the applications are now open. Those are right around town and a great way to honor the service of Dedham Zone.

Just a reminder, the police department has sent out National Night Out is coming starting April 3rd. August 3rd, I'm on vacation mode already before you go away. So invite folks to come and visit their neighborhoods and have a good time. With that, the next item on the agenda we need to move to executive session So I'll entertain a motion to move through Executive Session pursuant to General Laws 30A, 21A-3 to discuss strategy with respect to pending litigation and to consider and vote on release of potential claims regarding school transportation contract if the chair declares to discuss in this matter. An open meeting may have a detrimental effect on litigating position strategy of the board, and I pseudo declare.

So moved. Second.

Discussion? Hearing none, on the vote. Erin? Yes. Steven? Yes Michelle? Yes Chair votes yes We will adjourn directly from Executive Session Thank you