City Council - Ways & Means Committee Hearing on Dockets #0128 and #0129

Thank you.

Thank you for watching!

Okay. Let's get this started. I'm banging a gavel to imagine what that sounds like. For the record, my name is Benjamin Weber. District 6 Councilor, and I am the chair of the Boston City Council Committee on Ways and Means. Today is February 9th, 2026. The exact time is 2.02 p.m. In accordance with Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, modifying certain requirements of the Open Meeting Law and relieving public bodies of certain requirements, including the requirement that public bodies conduct There are meetings in a public place that is open and physically accessible to the public. The City Council will be conducting this hearing virtually via Zoom. This hearing being recorded It is being recorded, sorry.

It is also being live streamed at boston.gov backslash city-council-tv. at broadcasts on Xfinity Channel 8, RCN Channel 82, and Fios Channel 964. Written comments may be sent to the committee email at ccc.wm, as in ways and means, wm, at Boston.gov and will be made a part of the record and available to all councillors. Public testimony will be taken at the end of this hearing. Individuals will be called on the order in which they have signed up and will have two minutes to testify. If you wish to sign up for public testimony when you've not done so already, please email our central staff liaison, Karishma Chohan at karishma.

Joanna Chouhan at boston.gov for the Zoom link and your name will be added to the list. Today's hearing is on loan orders for various schools in the Massachusetts School Building Authority Accelerated Repair Program, specifically the following two dockets, which I will now read into the record. Docket number 0128. Message an order for your approval, an order authorizing the City of Boston to appropriate the amount of $6,500,000 for the purpose of paying costs for the window and door replacement projects at the following schools, the Edward Everett Elementary School and the Richard J. Murphy K-8 School. This includes the payment of all costs incidental or related thereto and for which the City of Boston may be eligible

for a grant from the Massachusetts School Building Authority, which we'll refer to as MSBA, said amount to be expended under the direction of the Public Facilities Department on behalf of the Boston Public Schools. Docket Number 0129 Sorry, message in order for your approval in order authorizing the City of Boston to appropriate the amount of $3 million for the purpose of paying costs for the roof replacement projects at the following schools. The Thomas J. Kenney Elementary School and Hugh Rowe O'Donnell Elementary School. This includes the payment of all costs incidental or related thereto and for which the City of Boston may be eligible for a grant from the Massachusetts School Building Authority said amount to be expended under the direction of the Public Facilities Department on behalf of the Boston Public Schools.

These matters were sponsored by Mayor Michelle Wu and referred to the Committee of the Whole on January 28, 2026. They were referred to the Committee on Ways and Means on February 4, 2026. Today I'm joined by my colleagues in order of arrival, Councilor Flynn, Councilor Murphy, Councilor Breadon, Councilor Durkan, Councilor Fitzgerald, Councilor Pepén, Councilor Coletta Zapata, and Councilor Louijeune. We've got a bunch of people here. I know we've had this discussion before. To do opening statements and then questions on this with this many counselors, I think would be duplicative. I am going to include extra time in the questions so people feel like they have time to make a statement before they ask questions. So today we're joined by Carlton Jones, who's the director of the public facilities department, and Brian McLaughlin, who's the senior project manager for the public facilities department.

So let's go to our panelists, Director Jones and Senior Project Manager McLaughlin. If you have some sort of presentation or something, I think Now is the time.

All right. So good afternoon, Councilor, Chair Weber and and other councillors. I know we have a lot of folks here today, so I just want to make a brief introduction. We again continue our partnership with the Massachusetts School Building Authority on behalf of the school department. We appreciate your past support in this effort and now we're asking again that you would continue to support us as we try to address needed roofs and windows projects and doors projects for our schools. So I'm going to turn it over to Senior Project Manager Brian McLaughlin who will have a short presentation and then we're welcome to answer questions. So Brian, you have the floor.

Thank you Carlton and thank you Councilor Weber. Before you today is a request for funding to support the construction for the window and door and roof projects at four schools as part of the Mass School Building Authority Accelerator Repair Program. Am I sharing my screen? Can you guys see the deck?

Yes, yes we can.

Great. The MSBA is a state authority that oversees funding of public school projects in the state of Massachusetts. It's a reimbursement agency that works with local districts to create affordable, sustainable, energy efficient schools across the Commonwealth. It's funded through one penny of the sales tax. MSBA has two programs. The core program for large renovation Projects like the Dearborn, BAA, JQS, and Cotter in the Accelerator Repair Program, which focuses on the repair and replacement of roof windows, boiler systems in otherwise structurally sound building. Over the past several years, Boston has made an effort to increase their participation in the Mass School Building Authority program. As of today, 57 projects are in various stages of the MSBA process. This slide provides a brief overview of the status of these 57 projects.

Of the six core projects that the MSBA has collaborated with the City of Boston on, Dearborn, BAA, JQS, and most recently the Cotter are complete. One school, the Shaw-Taylor, is currently finishing up procurement of their architect and will start design in the coming months. The Ruth Batson Academy is completing the MSBA's eligibility period. and Madison Park will be starting the eligibility period on July 1st. Under the accelerated repair program, 32 projects have completed construction Three are currently in construction. Seven are in design slated for 2027 construction and eight projects that were invited into the MSBA program back in Late fall, early winter of 2025 will begin design this summer.

To date, these collaborative efforts with the MSBA reflects $655 million in construction costs, with just over $240 million in reimbursement coming back to the city of Boston. In 2024, Boston submitted eight schools to the MSBA for consideration in the Accelerator Repair Program, six window projects and two roof projects. The process started in early 2024 for these eight schools with the city council voting to support the application submission to the MSBA at your February 14th, 2024 meeting. All eight applications were approved by the MSBA board at their October 28th, 2024 meeting. City Council then appropriated $1.2 million in November of 2024 to support the design of these projects and bring on the OPM and the architect.

Design of the project started in early 2025 and ended in fall and winter of 2025. They were submitted to the MSBA board and they voted to approve the total project budget for the Gardner and Lyndon schools at their October 29, 2025 meeting. City Council then appropriated $11 million to support those projects back in November of 2025. Before you today, we have the Murphy, the Everett, the Kenney, and O'Donnell. These schools were approved by the MSBA at their December 12th, 2025 meeting. The MSBA board's December 12th meeting gives the district 90 days to appropriate funds to support the completion of design through project completion.

With that, PFD is requesting $6 million for the window and doors at the Everett and Murphy and $3 million for the roofs at the Kenney and the O'Donnell. This vote will need two votes of the City Council. Ideally, February 11th will be the first vote, and the second vote will be February 25th. The architect will then work to complete the design through the winter and spring of 2026 and we anticipate 2027 construction on these projects. There's one remaining school from the 2024 ARP submissions, and that's the Adams School. This project, we anticipate approval by the MSBA at their February board meeting at the end of the month.

will then be before your body again sometime in March to ask for the money to complete construction of that project. Thank you for your time on this matter and gladly here to answer any questions.

Okay, thank you very much. Just like the record to also reflect that we've been joined by Councilor Worrell, and Councilor Culpepper. So let's start with questions because we have 10 colleagues Flynn. I'm going to set it at six minutes. You're up first. But if you feel like you need Couple extra questions. Totally, totally fine. I'm just going to try to get done in six minutes. We can get through a round and then a follow up. After that, so let me just, here, sorry, let me get my order correct. So Councilor Flynn, you're up, Councilor Murphy, You're on deck, Councilor Breadon is in the hole. So, Councilor Flynn, six minutes. We'll just see how this goes.

And again, if you need more time, I'll extend time for you and extend time for everyone else.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before I begin, I do want to say thank you to Carlton and Brian for their excellent work they've done. I had the opportunity to work with both gentlemen for eight years, and they're outstanding, dedicated city employees. So I just want to acknowledge their professionalism. and their commitment to the residents of Boston. Let me just ask either Carlton or Brian, when BPS works on especially window projects. Can you give me an idea of what that means in terms of replacing an old window that might have been damaged or might have problems with it. What type of window replacement are they doing and how bad are these windows currently that we're replacing them?

So for all the window projects that... City of Boston works with the MSBA on, they have to meet certain requirements. They have to be at least 25 years old in order to submit them for consideration. Once the application is submitted, the MSBA goes through A review of the hard copy application the application isn't just like a straightforward one pager it's a 13 to 20 page document where the district has to supply a lot of information not only about the window the Building System that's being replaced but the overall building. So we submit the application. The first step is the review of the hard copy. MSB reviews the hard copy submission. Then they come out and visit the school and take a look at the building system that we're requesting for, whether it be the roof, the window, or the heating system.

They'll then walk the building with the third party engineers that they have to One, make sure that the building itself is otherwise structurally sound. There's no other major issues at the building that would prevent them from participating in a window replacement or roof replacement project. A lot of the times we're going to these buildings and we're seeing windows that have been glazed over, some of them are screwed shut because They can't stay open properly. BPS facilities is doing their best to maintain these older There's a wide range of issues that we see when we go out and visit these buildings with Boston Public Schools and the MSBA.

Thanks, Brian. Councillor Flynn, I also want to add, and before I do, I want to thank you for your comments about Brian and me. I really appreciate it. We appreciate it. And it's our labor of love that we do this, as you know. In terms of the windows, we also go for energy efficiency as well. So we're not just trying to fix windows that are broken, but also we're bringing up to modern standards for the health and safety of the building and its occupants.

No, thank you, Carlton, and thank you, Brian. Well, let me just ask a follow-up question. What impact does the HVAC system, generally speaking, what impact does the HVAC system have on

to be honest on some of these older buildings there isn't Thank you for joining us. If the HVAC system is part of the project, it would be a larger project than just a roof replacement. It would likely not be part of the MSBA accelerated repair program.

Okay, so I was a substitute school teacher at Charlestown High and Selby High, but if the... If the heat is not on or if the heat sometimes gets so hot in there or the AC is not working and the windows are in rough shape, Do they, does the BPS team also, do they also fix the HVAC even though they know they have problems with the windows too? Or do they fix both at the same time or is that just... Something that we also have to deal with, basically.

We've seen it handled Multiple ways. I know up at Up Academy, we replaced the windows, but at the same time, we replaced the heating units that were adjacent to the window system. I think the same was done at I believe maybe the Henderson Lower School. I know we replaced the windows there and there was some work associated with replacing the The heating units that were tied into the window wall system. But it's a case by case basis given the different types of construction related to the buildings that we're seeing.

Okay, and one final question, and this will be a brief question. Do we still have the old traditional radiators in the schools? In the high school sometimes or the grammar schools. But the old radiators that can be very, very hot when you place your hand there. But I know I know there's some safety issues relating to old radiators. Just wanted to see what your thoughts are, Brian or Carlton.

Yep, Councillor Flynn, I know we do have, there are some mini schools actually that have the steam systems and the radiators. I know that the BPS has made a concerted effort to put radiator covers and so on. On schools where, I'm sorry, on radiators in schools where it would be a health issue, particularly at the lower grades. For instance, when we did the Horace Mann renovation at the former Edwards Middle School, there were radiator put on radiators at the lower levels. Not typically for the upper levels because by the time kids get older they tend to know better, but certainly for the younger kids we want to make sure their radiator covers on those systems.

Thank you, Carlton. Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Okay, thank you. Maybe we can get some testimony on how kids liked substitute teacher Flynn. I look forward to getting that on the record. But okay, well, thank you very much. So again, it is Councilor Murphy, then Councilor Breadon, then Councilor Durkan. Councilor Murphy, I'll give you six minutes. I'll put my camera on when you have a minute left.

Thank you, Brian and Carlton, for being here. And as you just mentioned, the Henderson, I just recently visited Miss Sue in room six at the Henderson, and I was glad to see that my former classroom, which I used to have to Nail shut the windows so then we were very hot in the summer and couldn't open them so it was good to see that the windows were replaced so happy to be on to support These programs. And Brian, welcome back. I hope you're doing well. Just sending love. I know that you continue to show up for us in the city and for our students and our school buildings during All that was going on, so thank you for that. But one just overall question, just happy to have this today so we can take our first vote knowing that we need to logistically just say yes twice and always want to support.

When we can have other funds to do the work that we know we can't always afford on our own. What is the, how many projects, Brian, because it seems like we're always sharing that we're getting approved. How many have we not gotten?

I'd have to take a look back and get back to you on that number. We've had a very high success rate on the number of projects that we've submitted for in recent years that The MSBA, as we know it now, started accepting applications back in 2007. And I think Most recently, we've had a lot more success, like I said, in the number of projects being moved forward. When the MSBA was created in 2007, there was only one program. All districts submitted just for consideration under their guidelines. They've since adjusted so that there's the core and the ARP. So it gives...

Districts the ability to also submit for smaller construction projects to help with, like Carlton said, energy efficiency and replacing one building system that may extend the useful life of a building by another 20, 25 years. So I'd have to take a look back and see what the overall number is. For this past year, we submitted nine, we got eight. For the year prior, all of our accelerator repair program projects were accepted in over the past three years all core programs have been invited into eligibility period. So like I said most recently we've had a lot of success in great collaborative effort work with the MSBA.

Not that I'm against waiting, if that's the only way to get a job done, but could you speak to times when it may delay a project? And what timelines look like? The money to come from this funding source.

So how working with the MSBA may delay the completion of the project?

Yeah, or the start of a project, knowing that it may delay it a few more years to even begin a project.

Yeah, so the MSBA process is such that they start with the eligibility period, which is a nine month period to allow districts Districts have to complete certain prerequisite items and it gives the MSBA an understanding of whether A district is able to support a large construction project. They're working with the 351 cities and towns throughout the Commonwealth in some of these smaller towns. don't always go before their governing bodies for a project that costs 150, 200 million dollars. So the eligibility period allows, it's more catered to the smaller districts, right? So they have to have a vote of the school committee and whatever the governing body is for the City of Boston City Council to support money to bring on the OPM and the architect. They have to agree to an enrollment.

They have to sign a document that allows them that allows their legal counsel to understand what the rules and regulations of the MSBA are, and that's a 290 day period, the eligibility period. Then you go into feasibility, feasibility study and schematic design. That's another 18 to 24 month period. before you actually start construction. So at the end of the day, the MSBA process may add two to three years on a construction project, but their process is such that at project completion, You get a better product or you get a product that is process driven. It requires that There's a lot of input from the community, the school community, the surrounding neighborhoods of the school.

And if you were to ask whether it's Mark O'Connor, Richard Chang, Ann Clark at the BAA, Yep. They'll tell you how- It was worth it, yeah.

Yeah.

because you definitely got something more. Are we under more scrutiny because they're obviously aware that we're having a lot of school closures and mergers? It's a hearing Councilor Worrell and I filed last year and hoping to get that scheduled this year we never really heard directly because i know that there are obviously concerns if we're putting money towards tax dollars towards a project in a city that may close a building or the school could possibly merge

Yeah. I can't say whether we're under more scrutiny. I think they wouldn't move these projects forward if they were really concerned, which is good. And most recently, back in December, they moved forward Madison Park, which was... Amazing. Great news. So I think if we were under a lot of scrutiny, they would be more reserved in not moving some of these projects forward.

Okay, thank you. Appreciate you both and looking forward to the first vote. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Murphy. So next up is Councillor Breadon, followed by Councillor Durkan, followed by Councillor Fitzgerald, who I will give 30 extra seconds to to address the Super Bowl. Results. So, Councillor Fitzgerald, if you want to include that extra padding for you there. Okay, so Councillor Breadon, then Councillor Durkan, then Councillor Fitzgerald. Six minutes, I'll turn my camera on, and there's a minute left.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here, Carlton and Brian. The MSBA is a great program. We would not We would be able to do much less if we didn't have it, so we're very grateful to have that opportunity. I'm especially grateful that one of the schools in this list is the Gardiner Pilot Academy in Austin. which is a very an old school that they're doing a great job just Keeping it going over there. I was wondering about, we have a lot of schools in the system and I know there's talk about consolidating some of them. I was just wondering, just generally speaking, how do we keep tabs on sort of the depreciation schedule and the

The plan sort of replacement for things like windows and roofs and all because I'm hearing about leaky roofs all the time and I just don't know how do we prioritize because I'm sure the need is much greater than our capacity to fix things at any time.

So, Councilor, we work very closely with Boston Public Schools Facilities Department. Unfortunately, we don't have the direct information on all of the schools in BPS inventory. We oversee the construction projects side of things. So that's why we are running this overseeing this hearing because it's directly construction related. We can take your question back to Brian Ford and his team and they'd be better suited to answer

Right, but I can add a little bit. Councilor Brayden, and good afternoon. So just like the, excuse me, Buss Public Schools has a facility condition and so forth. The other system, just as we just created for the rest of the buildings, it's the Brightly system in FOSS. So they actually have a database where they can track the building assets. They can see the age of the roof, windows and boilers and decide where they need to put their attention. And we're doing the same thing for the other facilities, police, fire, public works, et cetera. So they do have a database in which case they should be able to respond.

Okay, that's good to know. And then just to Councillor Flynn's Question about energy efficiency and the quality of the windows. Do you find that if we do something through the MSBA that they have a high standard for just the quality of the windows that we use and they have Thank you.

Thank you. We're trying to make sure that we are, I don't want to say state of the art, but we're getting the most bang for our buck. We're making sure that we have, we're putting in systems that will be able to stand the test of time. You know, we're trying to go for the 50-year solutions, not just a quick fix. Home Depot, Windows. So yeah, so they are, whether it's MSBA or not, we're making sure that, you know, we're looking at the... O'Neill, and the current, like I said, current energy code in particular to make sure that the windows are going to stand.

Excellent. And then in terms of rolling applications, are we already thinking about the next tranche of applications that we put forward to MSBA for support for windows and roofs and heating systems?

Yes, the MSBA actually this past year has made that accelerator repair program a biannual, so they won't open accelerator repair program. They have opened the core program. Uh, application process for 2026, but I'm not sure at this time whether or not we're going to be submitting for any of these projects. I think there's discussion underway on that.

Okay, very good. Mr. Chair, that's all my questions. I yield my time if I have any left.

Okay, okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Let's see. So up next is Councilor Durkan, followed by Councilor Fitzgerald, followed by Councilor Pepén. So, Councilor Durkan, you have six minutes. I will turn my camera on when I have a minute left, although I don't see Councilor Durkan in the Zoom here. Going once. Okay, so, Councilor, if you're not here, Councilor Fitzgerald, you're up, followed by Councilor Pepén, followed by Councilor Coletta Zapata, Fitzgerald, you did not have to address the results from yesterday, but extra points if you can

Councilor Weber, we're proud of the team, proud of the journey they took us on this year. And simply for last night's game, you just burn the tape and move on, right? And you know that we've got a great future ahead of us. So nothing like a hard loss to fire everybody up. and motivate us for years to come to make your team's lives miserable. But as for this and the Kenney School and the other schools, we have Three of the four schools are in Dorchester, and so we are proud to support this. We'd like to see more coordination with the MSBA. Thank you to Carlton and Brian for bringing these forward. Thank you for the questions from my other colleagues, but really we're just here in support. So thank you and I'm happy to move this on. Appreciate it. Thanks, Councillor.

Okay, awesome. Okay, Councilor Pepén, are you here? Yes, I'm here. Okay, then you're up, followed by Councilor Zapata, and then Councilor Louijeune. So, Councilor Pepén, six minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you so much for having this hearing. I honestly wanted to hear about what were the plans for this school just so that Because I want to know what's the process, maybe Dr. Jones, you could hear to this, but what's the process of determining what schools need window replacements and how do you choose them when they come to your attention? I know that You know, I mean, budget must be limited in terms of, you can't do every single school, but how do you look at, all right, these schools need help, we're choosing these, all right, and we'll save the next for next year. Can you explain that?

I can, to a point, Councillor, good afternoon. So in my prior role in BPS, I used to be heavily involved in doing that. But coming to PFD, we're more on the construction side. So we actually get a list of work to do. We are not on the and the team that decides what work. That happens at the Boston Public Schools Capital Planning Group in their unit. So, you know, Chief Dell, Stanislaus. So she and her team will actually conduct that analysis working with Brian Ford and Company. Brian McLaughlin, I don't know if you want to add to that, if you have any more that you can share.

No, that really kind of hit it on the head with the... They use their facilities condition tool to... draw out what projects would fit within the MSBA guidelines and then they identify those schools and share them with PFD to collaborate and submit the application to the MSBA. So it's a lot of The information comes from the Boston Public Schools side of things as Carlton relayed.

Okay, that's helpful to understand. And then let's say there's a one-off situation where for whatever reason a window is shattered. Does that have to, do we have to wait for that to go through the process or is there like an opportunity for a teacher? I'm just putting myself like, in teacher's shoes, and they really need a window replacement immediately. Is there a different process for that?

So the good news is broken windows or damage, whichever way the damage occurred, those get handled by the facilities department at Boston Public Schools. They'll come and they'll put a and have the window repaired. They don't do wholesale replacements, multiple windows at a time, but they'll certainly replace a window that needs repair.

Okay. And how do we choose the companies that replace the windows? Is that through procurement process?

That is through their, yeah, so facilities management at Boston Public Schools has a way that they procure their vendors. Again, not something that PFD does. If you'd like, we can get more information for you on that.

Sure, that'd be helpful. I mean, the reason why I just came out of a hearing with Senator Markey and Senator Culpepper and Fitzgerald were also there, and Durkan, where we were talking about procurements and making sure that small businesses Minority-owned businesses get an opportunity to get through any type of contract with the City of Boston. So I feel like I'm just in that mindset. I wanted to see what are we doing in BPS with those type of contracts. I would appreciate that. Other than that, I'm very thankful for the work that you all do, making sure our BPS facilities are up to date. And I don't have any more further questions, Mr. Chair.

Great. We'll follow up on that. We'll go through IGR to make sure you get a response.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much. So next up is Councilor Coletta Zapata, followed by Councilor Louijeune, followed by Councilor Worrell. Councilor Coletta Zapata, six minutes.

Thank you so much, Chair, and I just want to thank Carlton and thank you, Brian, for being here and for all the work you do around facilities. Brian, you've personally been helpful on a number of BPS-related facilities issues in my districts, most notably I'm thinking of the Warren Prescott I do want to start with the O'Donnell School, which is my local school. It's the closest school that I have where I grew up and where I live now on Eagle Hill. I've had the privilege of touring that building, which is now, my understanding it's 102 years old. It was built in 1924. So it needs a lot of love. And from what I heard from the teachers and administrators there, it's not just the roof. It's everything because it is such an older building. And we're seeing a lot of this everywhere. I know that. There are schools that have A deep history, but then also very real infrastructure challenges.

So I think like starting with the O'Donnell and then I have a couple questions on the Adams, just because those are the two in my district. but on docket 0128 we were able to see the cost breakdown for both but there's no cost estimate for So just wondering what the scope and costs are for the roof repairs for the O'Donnell and then what the anticipated construction timeline looks like for them.

Sure, I'll have to bring up the, I know the combined cost for the O'Donnell and the Kenny was a combined right around $3 million for the construction for both roofs. I can get a that will also give an idea of what the reimbursement will be for not only the O'Donnell but the Kenney as well. In terms of Timeline. The appropriation that will be voted on in the next two weeks will support the completion of design, which the design will last through probably the spring of 2026. will bid the projects and these projects are done over a summer so the summer 2027 will be the construction period for the roofs at the O'Donnell and the Kenney.

If we can gain some time, there's a small window that we may be able to go in to construction in 2026, but I really believe that Based on the time it takes to complete this design, bid the work, we'll probably be looking at a 2027 construction time.

Okay, and that's during the summertime to minimize disruption?

Correct.

Great. Okay. And I was, the reason why I asked that is because they've gone through a lot of construction recently with their playground, which we're very happy about. due to the allocation of this council in 2022 and state funds as well and obviously your collaboration so thank you for that but I just wanted to make sure that they weren't going to be going through any more construction issues. And then I think with the cost estimate, it's $3 million here. So is it just fair to say it's like a half, like 1.5 and 1.5?

No, I think the O'Donnell may be a little more than the Kenny, to be honest with you. The roof is a little larger. So I just have to... I have that information in my... in my files. I just have to be able to bring it up.

I think I see a breakdown of 1.6 for the Kenney and 1.3 for the O'Donnell. I don't know if that is accurate.

Okay. That should be in the vote itself, not in the cover letter.

Okay. I mean, yeah, whatever the final amount was, it was just something that I was curious about. And I have limited time. I want to be respectful of the chair. Seeing that that building is... Old. Is this supposed to be part of a longer term capital strategy for the building or is it too early?

I don't know the overall capital future for what the plans are for BPS with this building. Again, they provide us with the projects and we're the We're overseeing the construction side of things so we don't really get, we're not truly involved in where when BPS is putting their capital plan in place related to specific schools.

Right, Councilor, if I can add, I do know that capital planning does take into consideration the longevity requirements for these projects. So there's a specific length of time that the building has to be online O'Donnell, when MSBA funds are utilized. So they do take that into consideration. So one would presume, but you'd have to check with them directly, but one would presume that the O'Donnell, any of the schools that are in our program are on the long and many more schools that are not looking to continue.

Thank you for that. I know my time is up. So just with the Adams School, I think a similar question has been asked about whether or not this work is tied to energy efficiency, climate resiliency, or security. All of the above.

All of the above, absolutely.

Okay, great. Thank you all so much. Thank you, Chair.

Okay, thank you very much. So up next, Councillor Louijeune, followed by Councillor Worrell, followed by Councillor Culpepper.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to Carlton and Brian for all the work that you do. I want to continue to uplift the advocacy from parents A number of whom have constantly talked to us about the HVAC issues in school really elevated during the COVID pandemic. And so just to encourage you just to continue. I know you're not part of submissions, you're part of the execution, but uplifting that as an important need. For our schools, as some of my colleagues have already done. I saw that the Chittick School was removed from the list, but I didn't understand why. Brian, if you can explain what happened there.

Sure. The Chittick was removed at the time of schematic design submission to the MSBA. It was realized that the cost of the window replacement at the Chittick exceeded the 30% threshold for the ADA upgrades.

Is that what's with MSBA requirements?

No, it's the state requirements for construction. Project cost exceeds 30% of the assessed value of a building, then you must... upgraded the building to ADA compliance, full ADA compliance. And the cost and time and scope of work associated with that building in particular would have made would have made real operational impacts to the school. As well as the financial cost, we had to take a step back from moving forward with that project at this time until we better understand what a project like that would look like for the Chittick Elementary School.

Right, and also Councilor Louijeune, I just want to add, it's not just the cost of that one project, it's the cost over five years. So they literally take into consideration prior work as well. in that calculation.

Thank you for that. It's a school that's very near and dear to me. And so I just want to make sure that they're getting the resources that they need to improve their school environment. I also, I'm going to ask you a question, and I know that you all are on the, again, on the execution side, but, you know, there was a report last year regarding MSBA about the use of their funds going predominantly to renovate Suburban Schools, and that urban districts like the City of Boston aren't getting our fair share. When it comes to MSBA funding, I'm thinking about what we're doing on the capital project side to ensure that we are recouping more money in the MSBA process.

I think most recently the successes we've had with the multiple core program submissions, the large construction projects, shows that the MSBA Madison Park, Ruth Batson, Shaw Taylor. Over the past three years, we have three major projects that have been moved into the MSBA process, which is really... has been unheard of in the past after the other four right like we completed the Dearborn complete the JQS complete the BAA complete the Cotter Now we have three that are really beginning the MSBA process. and that's again it's unheard of for the MSBA to participate in three core program projects at one time with the district obviously the city of Boston has a larger greater inventory than

All the other districts in the Commonwealth, but their stance in moving Multiple core program projects and accelerator repair projects with the City of Boston at one time has really been a welcome thing for the City of Boston. I mean, we have I think it's like 15 projects right now that are in design and starting design in the ARP in three core. That's going to be not only a lot of work for the city of Boston, But at the end of the day, the amount of reimbursement funds we're going to get from the state on those projects is going to be very, very significant.

Awesome. Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Carlton. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those are my questions.

Okay, thank you very much. Next up is Councilor Worrell, followed by Councilor Culpepper.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Brian and Colton, for being here. Just a couple of questions. How many more window and or door projects do we foresee for city schools?

Good afternoon, Councilor. I'm not sure that we were able to answer that question. Again, that's a capital planning function for them to chart out over time. What their windows and door replacement programs would be. Again, we're not really involved in that level of detail at the beginning.

That's more BPS. And then what about this question? What's the lifespan of the new doors and windows?

Good question. So every asset has a lifespan. From recollection, I want to say there are at least 15 to 20 years is what we believe to be the case. We've tried to get longer on a roof. Roofs might be 20, 25 years. But at least that long, if not longer. And again, it depends on other conditions, but we're not looking for... I can't say that they're going to last 50 years. I would love to be able to say that, but that's just not realistic. But we try to get the most... Smith, durable and, like I said, energy efficient systems in place, you know, triple pane windows at times in order just to build up the energy efficiency. Again, there are some standards. We can go back and get the specs and find out if you really like to hear. But it's a time frame.

Thank you. And then just to the chair, if we could, I know sometimes BPS I had a very busy schedule, but I think them being part of this conversation, just based off of the questions that a lot of our colleagues had, were directed to them. Just want to make that request to the chair, having BPS part of these conversations. Thank you.

Okay, yeah, thank you. Okay, is that Councilor Orrell? Nothing else?

I yield my time.

Okay, thank you very much. Councilor Culpepper, six minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Turn my camera on, you'll have a minute left. Can you hear me? Yes, yeah, you might want to speak. I can hear you. You speak at that volume and I think people understand.

Can you hear me better now?

Yeah, it's fine.

Good to see you, Colton and Ryan. I have a couple of questions not related to the school that we're talking about now. But I did send the BPS leadership a request that had to do with Orchard Gardens. And I text you the auditorium and the seating in the auditorium because they're all torn up. And the kids can't even sit in those seats in the auditorium because they're all torn up. So I sent a request over to BPS leadership about three weeks ago, four weeks ago. The ceiling is... Lincoln somewhat. And so I asked them how long that would take to try and get some new seats in there so the kids can sit in the auditorium when they're doing their

a study session because right now the the chairs and I text you cause you can look at it when you get a chance but how long will it take for them to get some decent Chairs in that order in turn so the suits can use them when they're doing study sessions.

First of all, good afternoon, Councilor Culpepper, Reverend Culpepper. I'm sorry I didn't get your text.

It's okay. No, don't worry about it.

In terms of how, so again, from my experience having worked in Boston Public Schools, I have to speak from that perspective only, and then we can get more detail. I know that there are two things that can actually happen somewhat concurrently. If there are immediate repairs that need to be made, then that would be something that facilities management might be able to address in the near term. And then at the same time, This is good timing because this is when the capital plan submissions get made, right? So Boston Public Schools is putting together their next round of capital plan requests. and so it's conceivable that they would be able to submit this as a request if that's you know if it goes through their processes and it arrives to that level it's conceivable that they could put in a a request to do something larger as part of the good of state repairs projects. So how long? Again, the near-term fix could happen soon, relatively soon.

The longer-term fix would probably not happen until after and maybe the fall or spring of next year, if you're looking for entire replacement of all of the auditorium seats, that would be a much larger project that would take a fair amount of time to actually achieve.

I've got a call with the VPS, the budget people at 3.30. So I'll raise it with them. So great timing. The other thing has to do with the Mel King Academy in the South End, the McKinley School. Now look, it's not in my district, right? But I've been getting emails about it, about three things that I want to raise with you, and full transparency, I talked to Councilmember Flynn and asked him if I could ask these questions because the school is actually in his district and he gave me permission to ask these questions. So I want to ask regarding the condition of the school. One of the things that they asked me to see what I could do about is they said there are bars on the window and they wanted to have the bars removed from the windows. They've been asking to have the bars removed from the window. They said it feels, it really feels like a jail with those bars on the window.

So that's one thing. The second thing is they asked if I could look into, so there are different wings of the building. And they said that there are issues sometimes with some of the students They were wondering whether there was some way they could get some assistance in maybe securing certain parts of the building. And the third thing had to do with, apparently, they have a chronic absentee problem. And they wanted to know whether, and I'm not sure if this is called or right, something you guys even deal with, whether they could, how do they purchase a van

to be able to make wellness checks on some of the students that have chronic absenteeism. And those are the three things they asked me to raise. And since I had, I know you above and beyond called, it's good to see you again. Always good to talk to you. Those three issues they raised with me and asked me to raise with public facilities.

Thank you. You're welcome. So again, Councillor Culpepper, I really wish that I would be able to address these. These are beyond the scope of my purview, Public Facilities Department. These are definitely things that They sound like they're more operating, so we work with the capital budget and we spend capital funds. The things that you just mentioned, bars on the windows, securing the wings, chronic absenteeism, and purchasing the van, those are all operating. O'Neill, and many more. It's a facilities issue, but it's so Boston Public Schools has a facilities management group engineering and they take care of these types of concerns. Say again?

Who's that person?

Brian Ford. For the Boston Public Schools facility? Director, if I'm not mistaken, by title. Oh, I got it.

I'm on it then. I'll call Brian. I'll raise that at this budget meeting today. Thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you, Brian McLaughlin.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Culpepper, I know we've had some issues around pools. and if it's a fixture, it goes to the Capitol, whether bar is on windows. Is this a fixture or not? That might be an issue, just a flag. We were dealing with pool filtration systems and whether that was a fixture or not. So I don't know. bring back property law class or something. But so that might be you might hear about that. OK, so I'm going to ask if any of my council colleagues have A follow-up, my colleagues ask great questions, including many of my own. Director Jones.

Sorry, I misspoke. You know what? Because I'm sorry, I have to apologize. Brian Ford is the chief of operations at Boston Public Schools. He used to be the director of... Planning and Engineering. There's a new person there whose name I don't recall. So I'm just going to apologize, correct the record that way.

Yeah, Councilor Culpepper will play. I think Brian Ford got a promotion, so he used to do that. We'll get you that information, Councilor Culpepper, but it's something that we've also been involved in. similar issues in District 6. So I guess, you know, Councilor Louijeune brought up this report from last year by, I think it's like the Mass Inc. Policy Center. and they pointed out that the MSBA funds were largely going to Suburban schools, and you look from 2015 to 2024, where suburban schools made up just 43% of the schools in Massachusetts. but they got over they were more than half of the schools invited into the program whereas Boston and the Gateway Cities made up 32 percent of the buildings but only 19 percent of them were you know application I don't know exactly how

You know, those numbers play out. And this is even starker where Boston schools were like 2.5 times more likely than the suburban schools to have missing essential features like art and music classrooms, gyms, science labs. and they were more likely to have low building condition ratings. So I guess are you saying that if we look at 25, 26, you know, 24, 25, 26, Those numbers are evening out, or do we still have more work to do? How do we, you know, counter that to the extent you agree with the report's findings, I guess?

That's a tough one, Councillor Weber, Mr. Chairman. The way I respond would be to say that So because Boston Public Schools is the largest district in the Commonwealth, we have many, many more schools than other school districts. We also have buildings that are much, much older than a lot of the other school districts. There was a study that was completed not too long ago which said that a significant portion of our buildings were built before 1930. for instance. And I know a lot of work has gone into these buildings, but it's a lot to keep It's a lot to manage. It's a lot to keep ahead of. And so by that standard, I can see how they might say we're not getting... It's easy for a suburban school district to get over that threshold because they have fewer facilities, fewer buildings. and others, I would say, even though they're looking at proportions. And we have our participation with the Mass School Building Authority has increased phenomenally in these later years.

And certainly with Madison Park, Absolutely changed that scale, I would think, from a dollar's point of view anyway. So it's a tough call. You know, there are a lot of, we could probably put together a list where we threw everything on the table and You know, the MSBA would only be able to accommodate so many buildings per year anyway for us. So from our point of view, we are working very hard and very diligently with them. We don't feel that we're not getting our due from a work point of view, from a dollars point of view, but I can see how one could put together numbers and suggest that we aren't from a percentages point of view.

Okay, thank you very much. And I really appreciate all of your testimony and ability to directly answer my colleagues' questions. Do any of my colleagues have any follow-up? You can raise your hand. Doesn't seem like that's the case. Barishma, do we have anyone signed up for public testimony?

No, Councillor. Oh, no, Mr. Chair.

Okay, yeah. Okay, well, so with that, I guess, you know, we... I'm going to close the hearing. I'd like to thank my colleagues and our panelists and Patricia and Ethan for their participation and assistance. with today's hearing on these two dockets, which I intend to bring up for the first reading during Wednesday's council meeting. This hearing on docket numbers 0128 and 0129 is now adjourned. Thank you very much.

Thank you everyone.

Thank you all.

Thank you Mr. Chair.