City Council - Government Operations Committee Hearing on Docket #0138

Good morning everyone. Good morning.

One time for one minute.

I think we're going to go one more.

Yes, I am. I'm just looking at my computer.

one. My name is Ben Weber. I'm the District 6 City Councilor and I'm also the Vice Chair of the Boston City Council Committee on Government Operations. Today is November 26, 2025 and it is now 10 In accordance with Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, modifying certain requirements of the Open Meeting Law and relieving public bodies of certain requirements, including the requirement that public bodies conduct It's meetings in a public place that is open, physically accessible to the public. The City Council will be conducting this hearing virtually by Zoom. This hearing is being recorded. It is also being live streamed at boston.gov slash city dash council dash tv. and broadcasts on Xfinity Channel 8, RCN Channel 82, and Fios Channel 964.

Written comments may be sent to the committee email at ccc.go at boston.gov and will be made part of the record and available to all counselors. Public testimony will be taken at the end of this hearing. Individuals will be called on the order they sign up and will have two minutes to testify. If you wish to sign up, For public testimony you've not done so please email our central staff liaison Michelle Goldberg at Michelle M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E dot A dot G-O-L-D B-E-R-G at boston.gov for the Zoom link and your name will be added to the list. Today's hearing is on docket number 0138, an ordinance codifying the Office of Returning Citizens.

This matter was sponsored by Council President Ruthzee Louijeune. and was referred to the committee on January 8, 2025. For background, the Office of Returning Citizens was created in 2017 by an executive order by then Mayor Marty Walsh. and has since provided much needed re-entry services to returning citizens under Acting Mayor Janie and current Mayor Michelle Wu. In 2023, Michelle Wu celebrated the opening of a new dedicated office space for the Office of Returning Citizens, which has been under the direction of Ashley Montgomery since 2024. This office has been vital to those in need of reentry services and has provided grants to multiple nonprofits working in this space.

I think I speak for all my colleagues when I say we're looking forward to this conversation and are generally in support of codifying this office into the municipal code. I want to inform all my colleagues that we have received a redlined version of the ordinance. from the administration that you can find in the folder and that I think we'll be sharing on the screen later in this discussion. These red lines were done in partnership between the sponsors and the administration. Today I'm joined by my colleagues in order of arrival, Council President Ruthzee Louijeune. I don't know if anyone else is on here. No, not yet. So let's see. I'll now pass it over to the lead sponsor, Madam President.

for any opening remarks she may have and then go to My colleagues or actually I think we'll just have one opening statement and then we can maybe bring up the red lines to discuss or however you want to proceed, Madam President.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. And thank you for, I know the Vice Chair of the Committee, thank you for your willingness to hold this hearing. I want to thank the administration for being here at this hearing that we will all go over red lines so we can make this more efficient. I just want to thank Chief Masoho and Director Montgomery for your leadership in this space. When I was first elected, there were three things that I committed to. Affordable homeownership, investing in affordable homeownership, investing in affordable rental housing, and building up the office of returning citizens. I committed to that as a candidate and wanted to make sure that we saw it through. So making sure that we strengthen the Office of Returning Citizens with increasing its capacity to hire more employees. And by first time ever being able to issue grants to nonprofits and organizations that are led by Folks who themselves you know, I have experienced incarceration or know about incarceration, especially organized by Black and Brown women.

It's been a profound sense of pride for me to see this office grow, for me to see the investments and partnerships in community. and we want to make sure that this office remains part of our city's fabric. More than 3,000 people return home from incarceration every year in the city of Boston. We need to make sure that we keep them home. And we do that by making sure that we invest in this office, that we are reducing the recidivism rate, everything from employment to help with IDs to housing. And I've been proud over my four years on the council to see that happen and to see this office continue to grow. So this is a codification and we work in partnership with this. I want to continue to see the office grow. I want to make sure that we continue to center folks who are formerly incarcerated, not just as people who are recipients of the work of the RRC but also in leadership roles of the RRC and I think that's work that we will continue to do but just happy to be here. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thank you to everyone and apologies because I know this is the Wednesday before Thanksgiving but we want to make sure that we're ready to go next. Thursday, next Wednesday when we have the council meeting to hopefully pass this forward. So thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the administration and to central staff also for being on and being present. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Madam President. I'm going to shift to the panel. We've been joined today by Chief of Human Services, Jose Masso, and Executive Director of the Office of Returning Citizens, Ashley Montgomery. I believe you have a presentation So I'm going to hand it off to you and we'll resume our back and forth after your presentation is done. Great.

Thank you so much, Councilor Weber. And good morning to both of you and Council President Louijeune. Just for the record, my name is Jose Maso and I am the Chief of Human Services. I'm grateful for all of you being here today, the day before our holiday, as Council President mentioned, to hold a hearing on this important order. I'm especially grateful to Council President Lucy Louieune for filing this order and for others who joined her in support of it. I'm joined today by my colleague Ashley Montgomery, who is the Executive Director of the Office of Returning Citizens. In a moment, Director Montgomery will provide an overview of the work that ORC is doing. Before that, I wanted to provide just a little bit of context for the office and how it's evolved underneath the leadership of Mayor Wu. Office of Returning Citizens provides case management, referrals, and specialized assistance in housing and employment to Boston's returning citizens. This office came into existence, as was mentioned, under the Walsh administration, but it has flourished under Mayor Wu's leadership.

Wu, in partnership with the City Council, increased the budget and staffing significantly. In the past four years, the ORC has been transformed from a staff of two to a staff of 11. The budget has increased tenfold from roughly $200,000 annually to just over $2.5 million annually. This investment has enabled the office to take on more clients and to increase its capacity in certain areas like housing and employment where the need is especially high. As someone who believes deeply in second chances and in the need to invest in returning citizens so we can break the cycle of recidivism, I am proud of the work that the team at the ORC does every day. and the successes that they've had in supporting clients to find opportunity in Boston where there once was nothing. I think codifying the office is a step in the right direction and that it moves us closer to making a permanent commitment from the city to support our residents who are returning home from incarceration. With that, I will turn it over to Ashley to share her presentation. Thank you all.

Thank you, Chief. I'm just gonna, do you guys, am I gonna share on my end or does that work? Okay, just give me one second, sorry. Just making sure that everybody can see the presentation?

Yeah.

Okay, thank you. Again, thank you, Chief. Thank you, Councilors. Again, good morning. My name is Ashley Montgomery. I'm the Executive Director with the Office of Returning Citizens, where we support individuals coming out of incarceration back into the City of Boston. So appreciative of this opportunity to be here to present to you all. As Chief indicated, As of April, we're currently fully staffed with a team of 11. We also have a social work intern from Boston College. Our three case managers report to the director of case management services, and our three specialists report to the program director. We also have an operations director and office assistant who help to ensure that our internal processes are streamlined. So our main focal point in our office is our case management services. Once an individual registers with our office, they're assigned a case manager who conducts a needs assessment and works with them to create individualized goals.

These goals form the basis of their personalized plan, which you can see outlined in the infographic to the right of this slide. We currently have about 600 80 active clients enrolled in our services. Each case manager supports nearly 200 clients in different capacities. On average, our clients stay engaged with us for about 368 days, receiving varying levels of support even when they're considered stable. The ORC receives roughly 15 new registrations each week. We also offer open office hours two days a week where clients can meet with a case manager as they sign up for services. Because of this process, we do not currently have a wait list. Clients may wait up to 14 days to be formally assigned to a case manager, but they're registered and receive an initial needs assessment right away. Once the client is assigned a case manager, they can be referred to our employment or housing specialist. To ensure we set clients up for success, we use a referral form that helps us understand where they are in the process.

For example, we don't want to move somebody into housing if they don't have the income to sustain it, and we don't want to place someone into employment if they're not employment ready. This is why we also offer workshops to support individuals throughout their journey. I'm just going to go to the next slide. So these are some of the reoccurring workshops that our office offers. So we do a working credit workshop that just helps to repair credit. We do digital literacy. Suits to Smiles room where we offer suiting to males as they come in so that they can be ready for interviews. And then we also work with BPL to provide library essentials, something as simple as a library card, but more complex as more digital equity. Digital Equity or Digital Literacy Training. In addition to those workshops that are outside of the reoccurring, we also offer entrepreneurship workshops, quarry ceiling, housing, and employment workshops.

So our employment specialists not only support clients with their resumes, soft skills development, and mock interviews, they also build a pipeline to employers for direct employment opportunities. This year alone, our employment specialists created 29 new employer partnerships. And since these slides were created, we placed two additional clients and jobs, bringing us to a total of 86 clients employed year to date. Our housing specialist is currently working with 92 clients, and during fiscal year 2025, she placed 49 clients into housing. Of those placements, 61% were secured through BHA housing vouchers, and 24% were in single room occupancies. In addition to housing placement, our specialists also assisting clients with a range of applications including raft and furniture assistance.

As you guys indicated at the beginning of this hearing, our office has also created grant opportunities to support our community partners. From fiscal year 23 through fiscal year 25, we awarded more than $4 million to organizations serving our community. In fiscal year 26, we participated in the City of Boston's participatory budgeting process, in which we awarded $250,000 to 12 different organizations, and this was focused around the Youth Reentry Grant. We also currently have two additional grant opportunities available for this fiscal year, and they're focused on expanding housing and general reentry support, which total to about $950,000. Through our grant opportunities, we do site visits and advisory groups, and we also remain committed to breaking down silos and removing barriers within the reentry space. And listed on this slide are some of the collaborations that we're currently working on.

We've also been working to ensure that our office is more embedded and actively involved in the community. We've been intentional about creating events that foster connection and a sense of community among the reentry population. This summer we hosted a family cookout and more recently we held a community Thanksgiving gathering along with a turkey giveaway for clients and their families. Early this year, we partnered with Justice System Partners where they conducted a needs assessment with 312 participants. Some of the key barriers that they identified was transportation, digital equity, housing, and social supports. And in response, our office has been extending our office hours beyond Dimmock Street to increase accessibility. We also enhanced our housing support through the voucher program in addition to additional grant opportunities. We've been hosting, as I mentioned in the last slide, some family-friendly community events aimed at returning citizens as well as the broader Boston community.

We are also working on developing a peer support program in order to strengthen our client networks. And then as I also indicated in previous slides that we work with the city's digital equity team to host bi-monthly drop-in sessions for our clients. Justice System Partners also conducted focus groups with community partners and individuals who are currently incarcerated and those who were formerly incarcerated. Some of the key themes that were emerged were that our office has strong leadership and highly dedicated staff, Participants also noted strong willingness to collaborate and that the ORC prioritizes inclusivity amongst partners. And our partners also shared that they feel valued, heard, and included. And again, I just want to say thank you. The Office of Returned Citizens continues to grow, not just through the work that we do directly with those that we serve, but by being present in the community and a trusted resource for our partners.

I thank you for the opportunity to ensure that this office remains a permanent support for individuals returning home from incarceration. I'm just going to stop sharing.

Okay, thank you very much. I just want to know we've been joined by Councillor Bryan Worrell, Worrell, I think we just got finished with a presentation. We're going to move on to red lines. Do you have a Something short you want to say before we get to red lines or just leave your questions for later?

Yeah, I'll leave my questions for later, but thank you, Chair. Thank you to the panelists. for being here, all the work that Chief Mosso and Director Montgomery that you're doing in this space. Just looking to make sure that we're bringing all the resources and support to our returning citizens. So just happy to be engaged on this work. Thank you.

Okay, so I think because we're trying to get this ordinance Over the finish line here, usually we kind of talk about questions about your mission and stuff like that. I think we'll just get to the language of the ordinance. I guess, Council President, you have a question?

I'm happy to get some language of the ordinance because I want to do that too but I was wondering if I could also like ask some questions just based on their presentation before we dive in.

Yeah absolutely so I guess we'll leave it to uh if you have some questions and then I don't know, I guess, Brian, if you have any follow-ups after Madam President. So Roussy, or Council President Louijeune, as you're formally known. I don't know, like... Five minutes for questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, Director Montgomery, for that presentation. Back, I'm really excited to hear about, like, just to see the growth, knowing from where it started and from when I started to see like the growth of the office and the work that you've been able to do and the impact You mentioned three areas of continued challenges, or was it four? I can't remember the slide. It was transportation, identification, and there was a third one. Do you remember that slide?

It was based on the needs assessment that you're referring to. So the transportation, digital equity, social supports, and Ashley, I forgot the fourth one.

I think it was identification. No. Um yeah so my my question is and I like I love the progress that we've made on housing I love hearing that to date I think it was 368 people, I'm not sure, but a good number of people were able to find employment, or 86, I forget the number, via the Office of Arbitration Citizens. That's what we want to hear. Love that there are these great opportunities that remain outstanding for folks when it comes to housing. But of course, when you identify the challenges, I want to know what we're doing to help to rise to the moment for those challenges. Yeah, so the, I'm sorry. I think it's more important to know what social supports are.

Yeah, so the four key barriers that were identified were transportation. And when they talked about transportation, it was really transportation to getting to our office. So as indicated, our response has been just being more embedded in the community. So ensuring we're not just at 30 Dimmock Street, that we're just in different spaces so that people will have accessibility to us. And so what we're finding is that the majority of our population is released in Roxbury, Fenway, and Mattapan, Northchester areas. So we're being intentional and not just situating ourselves in Roxbury where our office is located, but also situating ourselves in Dorchester and Mattapan areas so that people can have that access. So that was kind of the first barrier that was identified. And that's the way in which we're kind of alleviating that. In addition to we're working with our community partners in order to provide bus passes. So people have the accessibility to getting to us and not to us, but to other areas that they need, whether it's to employment or to different interviews that they might have. The other thing that was identified was actually digital equity.

So our response was working with the digital equity team, which is internal to the city of Boston. They actually come here bimonthly to conduct workshops. And then we also work with the Boston Public Library, and they also do some workshops to help with digital equity. The other barrier that we identified was housing. And so the way that we've done that is not only through our voucher program, but also through grants. So right now, I mentioned that we have two grants that are currently out. One is around reentry support services, which closed on December 1st. Oh, no, that one already closed. I'm sorry. And then our other one is housing grants, which closes on December 1st. I'm sorry. And so that is to kind of uplift and ensure that we're able to get our clients housing. and then the final barrier was actually social supports. And so I kind of mentioned that we're cultivating events to ensure that People feel empowered and are able to be supported.

So one thing that we did in the summertime, we created a family cookout where the basis is family reunification. So like really bringing different people into the fold, but also having resources available for individuals impacted by incarceration. And then this past weekend, we had a family gathering, which we did in collaboration with Haley House. Just to build a sense of community so that people can get together, especially during this tough time around the holidays. And then on Monday, we also had a turkey drive, again, just fostering that social support and that sense of community. And so I'm not sure if that answers your question. I know you alluded to the employment piece. So it actually is 86 individuals that we've gotten employed so far. And so, and we continue to kind of- This calendar year. This calendar year. So from January to now. So we are still, and again, you know, our employment specialist has created 29 additional employment pipelines to get our clients employment.

Thank you. With respect to the social supports, I love the idea of the family unification, especially with the legitimacy of the city behind it. I think that could be really helpful for a number of of People. Is that for them, for folks who are formerly incarcerated, where they could also bring income with their families as well? Correct. Great. On transportation, I remember when you all were over at Dry Dock, even I was like, where is this? And I remember that was a struggle. Now you're basically Jackson Square, a nine minute, eight minute, nine minute walk from the, from the train and so I guess I want to understand what the barriers are for folks who are or right like is it a 29 there are a number of buses that that basically stop right there so I'm just trying to have a better understanding about those trends. I was like, people who want to drive, who may not have access to a license, what is the nature of the transportation barriers that people are identifying?

Yeah, and so just to be clear, it's not just transportation to our office. I think it's just transportation in general. So just not having the funds to not even have an access to get a bus pass, right? Because they just don't have the money to. And so that's why not only are we, We also work with MassHire So there's different organizations because we can't be all things, so we really have to tap into our community organizations to provide bus passes for those that need them in order for them to get out and be able to get to their employment, get to their housing appointments, get to whatever appointments that they might have.

And I know the Fountain Fund, I don't know if you've connected with Jay, the law of the Fountain Fund, that they have a lot, I know that because of the anti-aid amendment, there's stuff that we can't do, but There's work that nonprofits can fill in the gap for us when it comes to things like bus passes that I hope that we're able to lean on them more to help do that direct direct service work and helping people in a way that we may not be able to.

Yeah, and of course, that's why I kind of mentioned those two organizations. I mean, Fountain Fund, amazing. They're more of a loan-based provider, but we do also work with the Fountain Fund in different capacities, so for sure.

Awesome. Well, I'm really excited. And lastly, they're fully staffed right now at 11 employees. How many of those are returning citizens or formerly incarcerated folks themselves?

We have one individual, our Director of Operations, that is formerly incarcerated, and then we have another individual, our Employment Specialist, that has been in TYS custody before. and then we are in the process of contracting some peer support which would be a formerly incarcerated individual.

Thank you. I do think that I see that as one area. I mean, not that we should all always be growing, but as one area of growth is that making sure that those who are directly impacted are also the ones helping, who have been directly impacted are the ones helping to lead decisions. Hopefully I sound like a broken record on this issue because it's something that's really important. I was with healing our land last week and they were they do a lot of work in our carceral system and they wanted to make sure that they you know that's something that we continue to highlight that this is an office um that continues to center in every way Those who are formerly incarcerated.

So, yeah, and most of our staff is also formerly incarcerated adjacent. Right? And so we also have been impacted in different ways. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. Those are my questions, Mr. Chair.

Okay. Thank you, Madam President. Councilor Worrell, I see we've also been are joined by Councilor Flynn. Councilor Flynn, we've had a presentation. We are going to get to an ordinance with red lines, but we have a couple of minutes For questions, so you're on deck, Councilor Flynn. Councilor Worrell, do you have five minutes for questions?

Thank you, Chair. Just a couple of questions around the housing piece. I know that the office was able to secure 50 vouchers for returning citizens over a three-year period starting in 2024. Had they all been maxed out? Had they all been used? Were we able to house 50 individuals?

So they have not all been used and for various reasons whether somebody is in mitigating currently. So I think six people are currently waiting to get their mitigation letters. and then we have and for again various reasons we have four individuals that we are now recommending for vouchers and the reason why we still have those four is that sometimes they just weren't approved for housing sometimes they just don't respond So there's various reasons. So no, we haven't placed all of those individuals, but we are adamantly working to do that.

Awesome. And then I know you talked about the housing grants that the office Is that direct assistance or does that also cover administrative costs for like the nonprofits? Or is that just centered around making sure that we're getting, you know, rental assistance into the hands of, you know, the returning citizens?

all of the above, right? And so sometimes the grant, they do ask to just do the administrative costs, but a lot of it is like doing arrears, you know, ensuring that there's like that long-term stability and housing support. So that is kind of the focal point of the housing grant.

Got it. And in RFP, is there, you know, X amount, like X percentage needs to be administrative and then X percentage needs to be direct? Okay.

No, there's no direct cost of how much needs to be allocated where, but for the overall grant is for $250,000 and organizations are able to receive up to $100,000 under that grant opportunity.

Got it. Yeah, and I know housing, as you mentioned, is one of the biggest barriers, so I'm just Trying to find ways to make sure that we are supporting individuals in every which way to make them as attractive as possible and give them a leg up in that rental process. No further questions. Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much, Councilor Worrell. Councilor Flynn, we do have an ordinance to codify the office that we'll be reviewing, but five minutes for questions about Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and I strongly support this ordinance. I know how important it is. This is an issue I've worked on As a probation officer really at Suffolk Superior Court for eight years, supporting returning citizens, giving them an opportunity to Get back on their feet, but have the critical support and services they need to have a healthy and successful life here in the Commonwealth. My question would be around employment opportunities. Do we have any specific data as it relates to How are we supporting returning citizens here in the City of Boston with employment opportunities in various departments? That's something I've advocated for a long period of time, trying to place

returning citizens into appropriate positions in city government.

Yeah, sure. So we do have a direct pipeline, particularly with Parks and Recreation, but we are working closely with our Chief People Officer to ensure that we're continuously getting Returned to this employment within the city. So we're heavily involved in just what quarry policies mean and how to ensure that we're uplifting are returning citizens in city government. But in addition to that, outside of city government, again, we are working and people are, there's a lot, they're receptive to us in hiring returning citizens. But in addition to that, we do have 165 different employers that we work with to place returning citizens into.

Thank you, Ashley. When I was a probation officer, Getting someone a job, a returning citizen a job, was always challenging. But what was more frustrating and challenging than that is when the person got a job and was doing well on the job and then the Corey background check would come back and then they would be fired basically because of the Corey. What are we doing in terms of working with The Commonwealth of Massachusetts on Corey reform, but also trying to be more welcoming to returning citizens as it relates to the Corey aspect itself.

So I'll be honest, we're not currently working with Massachusetts in general. We are building the capacity in order to do some more policy implementation, especially as it relates to Corey. But what I will say is we are working to One, create an employer advisory group just to educate people and kind of bring people into the fold that are formerly incarcerated and are in really good positions. Even some of our community partners bringing them into the fold of the success stories. So we're working on doing that so that employers are more willing to hire people that are formerly incarcerated. and again, continuously building on that employment pipeline. Like I said, we currently have 165 different employers that we work with that we kind of are like just keeping our finger on the pulse. and we also created 29 additional employment pipeline opportunities just this year. So we're constantly just having conversation. Our employment specialist goes out into the community twice a week to have these conversations as it relates to employment

to ensure people are aware of Corey, to ensure people know how to read a Corey, and just being like transparent about what our office does and the work that we're looking to do as we move forward.

What is the conversations that we're having with Suffolk County Sheriff's Department of Mass Department of Correction. Before people are released from jail or prison, what type of Support are we providing them, if any, while they're still being held in custody or incarcerated?

We actually go up to their reentry panels. So Suffolk County hosts a reentry panel once a month. So we actually attend those. So we were working in collaboration with their reentry coordinators. And then more recently, both our employment specialists and our housing specialists actually did throughout all of the DOC facilities to ensure that these are the services that we offer, these are things that we can do, and we also work in collaboration with the DOC reentry director. So we're constantly keeping our fingers on the pulse and ensuring that people know that the work that we do and how we can have some cross collaboration.

Okay, my final question, and thank you for giving me this opportunity, and I apologize for being late. I'm over here at West Roxbury at the VA facility. So when a person is coming out of jail or prison and they're getting recovery services while incarcerated, What is Boston doing to support them in terms of recovery services After, once they're released from jail or prison, what are you doing specifically to support them in their recovery services support?

Yeah, so that's another place where we have direct pipelines. I, myself, I used to work at the Bureau of Substance Addiction Services, so we have our own connections. We refer to our MABA website in addition to We are situated on the Dimmick campus, who also has recovery services. So we're able to do some referrals there. We're also not that far from Whittier, which we also have a collaboration with. So we have a lot of different collaborations with the people that do the recovery work. that we're able to kind of tap into them and ensure that that recovery work consistently happens even after somebody is released.

Is it working? Do you have the results of the people that you're tracking in terms of how many people remain in recovery services and just keeping that data?

So we don't track how many people remain in recovery services, but we do track our referrals to those type of services, which I didn't pull, but I can always pull and get you that number. But we do track how many people were referring to different services. So, and we constantly, like I said, at the beginning of the slide deck that we on average stay with our clients for at least 368 days so that's over a year that we're kind of like ensuring that our clients are being supported and sometimes it's longer than that that's our average number So we know when somebody is no longer being involved in their recovery, and we try to keep our finger on the pulse on that.

Well, Ashley, thank you for the important work you and your team are doing. It's greatly appreciated. And I know you're very professional and hardworking, so just wanted to acknowledge you and your team. Mr. Chair, thank you very much.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Thank you. I just have one quick follow-up, and then if anyone had a follow-up question, we'd go to them. Just actually, in terms of... In my background as an employment lawyer, if somebody feels like they're being singled out because of Corey, what do you tell them? Because I'm assuming that we have this employment at will system where you can be You can leave your job at any time, you can be fired at any time, basically for any reason as long as it's not an illegal reason. I don't know what the law says about if you have a criminal record and you're fired or not offered a job because of that. So what do you tell people when they feel like they're being singled out by an employer?

Yeah, we work with them through it, right? And to understand what the gaps are and the barriers. We also, one funding source, The organization that we do fund is, well, too, Lourdes Clearinghouse and Greater Boston Legal Services. So we also tap into our partners in case there might be an issue that we need to kind of keep our finger on the pulse on. I will say that that hasn't come up. For us, really, and I think just because we've already kind of created most of the time when we're putting people into employment opportunities, they're employment opportunities that we've already created that pipeline to. So, yeah.

Okay. Okay. Well, thanks a lot. So yeah, just if anyone has a follow-up, I see Councilor Louijeune, do you have something?

Yes, I do have a follow up question. Thank you, Director Montgomery. In the beginning of your presentation, you stated that 86 people, which I think is a phenomenal number so far this calendar year, have been placed in permanent employment. Do you know how many of those 86 people are with the city of Boston?

I think we have three at Parks and Recreation, but I can get you that number. Yeah, I can get you that number. I think it's three out of the 86 with the city of Boston.

Awesome. Thank you. And I think that's really important for us as a city when it comes to employment issues. As much as we're trying to get others to hire, those who are formerly incarcerated that we also continue to be a model for what that looks like understanding that no one is the worst thing that they've ever done and we do that by modeling as a city both when we're fighting as my office has been fighting for a minimum wage for this for city employees that we also do that when we're modeling what it looks like to really believe that those who have quarries and those who are either formerly incarcerated have the potential to be contributing members of our society and there's no greater way of showing that than with our city and I just want to thank you for your leadership. I want to thank Chief Lawrence and the people office and you Chief Masso for thinking really critically and and holistically about what that looks like. I think so many times when we're encouraging others to do things, we have to do it so that we can be the model and be the proof point for it being successful. So I just want to thank you for that.

Okay, thank you very much. Okay, I don't know if anyone else has anything else. To follow up? Okay. I guess, Ellie, can we bring up the red lines? I'd like to go through that. Councilor Louijeune, I see your hand is still up on this.

Yes, no, it's just for the red lines because I have additional questions and things that I'd like to bring up, but I think I'd be able to do that more efficiently via the red lines.

Yeah, okay. I'm just saying your hand is up. Oh, sorry.

I will lower it at this moment, Mr.

Chair. I didn't know. Okay. Do you mind zooming in, Ellie? Age-challenged people can read this. Great. No, no, now you're embarrassing me. So we're codifying the officer returning citizens. And I'm just, I'll go through, you know, I don't know if I have to read this whole thing. I'm going to skip the first sentence. The section one is the purpose. So hereby established within the City of Boston, the Office of Returning Citizens, which shall provide support services for the formerly incarcerated to assist in their successful reintegration of the community. The office shall work to promote equitable access to services and opportunities in the areas of employment, housing, Healthcare, Education, Social Services.

Here there's been a red line changing it from formerly, you know, to provide services for formerly incarcerated to assist as opposed to ensure their successful reintegration. I don't know, I guess I'm asking the filer, are you okay with this red line from the administration?

Yeah, I understand it and I'm fine with it.

I think it's just, it's hard to ensure things. That sounds fine. Okay, section two, duties of the office. The office of returning citizens shall serve as an advocate for returning citizens by addressing barriers to reintegration, including employment, housing. I'm just going to include the original legal aid and access to health and mental health services. The red line is to take out, serve as an advocate, By addressing barriers to legal aid, to take that out, I guess, Madam President, do you have any thoughts on that?

I mean, I understand why. And I think that hopefully at a later point, this can be an area for growth for the office, but I understand why that language is removed.

Okay. Ashley, do you know why this is taken out? I'm just...

I think just so because we aren't able to provide legal advice, you know, again, we do kind of outsource, but internally, we're not able to provide legal advice. So that's why I think it was removed.

Okay, I mean, we don't provide housing either, or mental health services.

So but it's like, we do advocate, we do we advocate for housing that we have a housing specialist that, you know, kind of puts people into housing, we give vouchers. You know, dual employment and then we do provide access to health and mental health services.

Okay. Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, you do if somebody I think you just mentioned, like, We will refer somebody to Greater Boston Legal Services or something like that, which I encourage. Okay, well, hopefully that won't stop. Okay, and then the next bullet point is to coordinate re-entry services across city departments and nonprofit organizations. to support returning citizens. What's been taken out is to coordinate services with community partners also and ensure returning citizens have access to necessary resources. I think the insuring part, I think we can't guarantee. We're trying to have access to those things. But in terms of community partners, Council President,

Do you have any thought with taking...

I'm fine. The language nonprofit organizations in there. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Then the next bullet point, develop and promote programs that support The Employment and Workforce Development of Returning Citizens including and the original is partnerships with employers, job training programs, and quarry-friendly employment opportunities. That's been changed to including collaborations instead of partnerships with employers, job training programs, and query-friendly employment opportunities. Any questions there? Okay. Next bullet point, I will, I'll just, I'll go with the original and then I'll tell you what the red line is. Assist returning students.

I don't see the language on the screen and it could be helpful to have that up instead of, do others see the language on the screen?

Oh, do you not see it? I haven't. Yes, I see it.

I see it as well. I mean, I have it open in my other dock. I'm having a... I might just log off and log back on, okay?

Yeah, I mean... Ellie, take off the block council president filter. I'm just kidding. But do you want a minute to grab the red line?

Oh, wait, I kind of see it. I don't know what's happening. Oh, oh, okay. All right, I'm good now. I'm sorry.

Okay, so the next bullet point is assist returning citizens in securing stable housing through partnerships with housing providers and programs such as the Department of Corrections Housing Voucher Initiative. The red line changes that to instead of partnerships, collaborations, through collaborations instead of with the housing providers and programs, and just has taken out programs taken out such as the Department of Corrections Housing Voucher. So it's just taken out an example of one of those. Obviously, they can still work with that program. and we're working in collaboration, not in partnership. Council President, any thoughts on that? Okay, they got two thumbs up.

uh the the next one is i'm just going to go again with the original and then it get to the redline the original was ensure access to health care services including mental health and substance use treatment by coordinating with health care providers, insurance services, and community health organizations. The red line version is work with organizations to improve access to health care services including mental health and substance abuse treatment and takes out by coordinating healthcare, insurance services, and community health organizations. Again, I think this, if you have any, I think this is just, I have a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's actually not in the language. It's something I meant to ask before. From the transition from Dry Dock and maybe Chief Mosso, you'll have more insight because I don't think I don't think Director Montgomery was over at Tri-Doc to now being at 30 Dimmick. Are you seeing an ability to really to increase The health care, like the ability to connect returning citizens to the need to health care needs given its situation, it's your physically located epidemic. Have you seen an improvement there?

Yeah, well, we weren't able to have a comparative data just because we didn't have mechanism to be able to capture that when we were at dry dock. However, it was intentional in terms of choosing DMICC was for those purposes, so the strong partnership You know, the Democratic president and the community in turn, and as Ashley referred to, like ways that we're able to and many more. and Increaser or anything else like that. We just don't have that data to be able to compare, unfortunately.

But is it happening? Like you are actively connecting people to these?

Okay. No, I was going to say I can answer it. But yes, yes, we have a direct partnership with both Dimmick and Whittier. Great.

Okay and yeah I guess yeah uh just for Chief Masso or or or Ms. Montgomery uh do you in terms of like the difference between collaborating and and partnering is Is it just like a, you know, form, you don't guarantee like a formal relationship, you know, documented, you're just, you're trying to collaborate with them. I assume that's the purpose.

Yeah, it's wordsmithing at this point, but it's exactly to your point. That's exactly what it is.

Okay, Council President, can I move on? Yeah, okay. And then the next one, again, I'll go with the original and then describe the red lines. Promote financial independence. by offering financial literacy programs, entrepreneurship opportunities, and assistance with accessing financial services that's been changed to promote financial independence by offering workshops and training and has removed the specifics you know financial literacy programs entrepreneurship opportunities and assisting assessing with financial services. Council President, any questions about that?

No.

Okay, yeah, and again, I think it just, it's sort of, they're still, can accomplish the same goals, it just, you know, through the vagueness allows them to do other things or figure out what works. I think that's, I assume that's the purpose. Okay, next bullet point is, Again, the original is engaged with local communities and stakeholders to raise awareness of the challenges faced by returning citizens and encourage public participation in supporting reentry initiatives. The red line just takes out stakeholders. So just engage with local communities, not communities and stakeholders. I don't know. Council President, any questions?

No, that's fine.

Chief, what do you have against stakeholders? No, I'm kidding. But again, the purpose here, correct, is just to sort of... You know, allows you to work with, you obviously will be working with stakeholders that's included in communities, I guess, right? Correct. Yeah. Okay, next bullet point, and I'm going through all these because this is relatively short, so maybe with a longer one we wouldn't do this, but the next bullet point was collect and maintain data on returning citizens served by the office and provide an annual report to the mayor and the city council detailing the office's activities, outcomes, and recommendations for policy or program changes. This has been just completely removed. I think we might have to have some explanation here by the panelists, but Council President, any questions?

Yeah, I'd like a little bit more detail here.

I'm sorry?

I would like a little bit more detail here.

OK. Yeah, I don't know. Either of the panelists, can you explain why this has to be completely or why you want it completely out? And then this is, you know, this is basically to provide a report once a year on just, you know, Honestly, you know, the good things you're doing, the challenges you face, just how to, I see this as like how to help us help you with a report. But anyway, that's been taken out. Ashley, or Chief Massa.

Did you want me to go, Chief?

Yep, and I'll chime in after.

Yeah, and so I think the intention of it being taken out is not restricting us, right? And so in restricting... and how we're reporting on the data that we have for our returning citizens. Obviously, we just transitioned to an apricot system, so we do have data, so we're not opposed to sharing it. I think we just want to be protective of the data that we are sharing. So that's from what I understand when we had conversations on this, but Chief, we'll defer to you.

Yeah, I mean, and as far as this process, we work closely with Corporation Council as well. And so I think they have flagged some restrictions around feasibility. And so we really want to make sure that we don't pigeonhole, like all of this is to ensure like nothing, I think we do this. We do this every budget season. So we're able to report out both the numbers and all the data as well. So I think this happens. Organically, but this again is an essence of not pigeonhole any teacher You know, staff members are saying like this has to happen. I don't believe any of the other departments have to operate in that way either. So it's just, again, I think the budget season is the purpose and the time in which this information is able to be provided.

The Office of Black Male Advancement does provide an annual report to us as a City Council. There are models for this happening.

Got it. I wasn't speaking on behalf of outside departments. I was thinking within my cabinet, but you're absolutely correct. My apologies.

and basically the PowerPoint that Ashley just presented was basically the equivalent of I think what we would be looking for in the form of an annual report.

Okay, can we run that by council again and then just figure out?

Okay. Yep. Yeah, it's not meant to be like a huge lift, but it's also how we can, you know,

I think they would want it to, yeah, maybe it's more the language that it would be over, like maybe it needs to be more overarching, but yeah.

Because I mean, I do hope that you are collecting and maintaining data on returning citizens served by the office, right? Correct. And then that could be a ballpoint. And then provide an annual report. I'm not saying that all that data is data that you need to turn over to the city council. but you know the provision of an annual report could also I mean I can see how it can be sort of you don't want to pigeonhole anyone but it could also be sort of like A way also of keeping the office on task, not saying that you needed that, but it could also be a way of And maybe the annual report always happens around budget season, right? Maybe the annual report is something that you deliver to the council around budget season because there's already that preparation being done for the budget.

Yes, in full agreement. And we'll definitely figure out a way to wordsmith it. That is the expectation I do have of the departments as well. It's just that they do provide some type of annual update for the great work that they do. But to your point, as far as accountability, that's something that we ensure, but to ensure for future

um leaders to make sure that happens as well whatever we could definitely think more deeply into that yeah i am very sensitive about what data like like there's certain data that i don't you know and sensitivity that we don't necessarily need to have so If divorcing those two lines too is also helpful, I'm more than willing to do that.

Yeah. Yeah, and it just might, it might Yeah, it's either annually, I mean, it could be just to the mayor, I don't know, or to be available to the city council on request or, you know, in an annual report, which Maybe, you know, just simply by reporting a budget. I feel like there's some ways to do this, but I like your idea, Council President, of separating the collecting and maintaining the data so they actually have it. and just in terms of I think some other things like this we see on the council like have entire separate bodies created to committees or advisory councils created.

Not that that's bad, but here the lift is pretty light, I would say. To the chief here, we're not creating a separate advisory council to issue a report on what work you're doing. This is just simply like internally, make sure you have the data. and that, you know, we can track it if we want. That would be used just, you know, in terms of making sure that we're providing the services that we all want to see get provided so i don't know i guess council president we're on a tight deadline for next week do you Do you want to propose a revision or something?

Collect and maintain data on returning citizens served by the office, period. Another bullet point.

And Ellie, you can track this in your

I mean, I don't see anything wrong with providing an annual report to the mayor and the city council detailing the office activities, outcomes, and the recommendation of policy. and explanations for policy or program changes. I see, I don't see anything. I think that's, I see that as an asset and It also doesn't give you a deadline of when it has to happen. It just has to happen every year. And I think any good office that wants to... Yeah, and I think the effort of codifying the office is because we believe in the office and we believe that it should continue to grow and be something. I don't want the annual report to sound like it's this huge, it shouldn't be this huge, enormous task. And you push back, director, if you believe that it will be, or if Chief Musso, if you... I believe that would be your presentation, like I just tweeted.

You know, I personally don't want to know.

I want to have something that says, Look at what they've done. 86 people have been employed by the Office of Returning Citizens this year. Like this office has been, it's a success to, you know, our residents. And like, you know, well, next year will that number be, by this point today, will that be? President, 100% agree.

I think I mean just to model many of the other departments within the cabinet that's something that we do amplify and so I am in a space in which I'm able to hold you know our departments accountable and also ensure that We're reporting out on the data and all the great work that everybody's doing. And so again, that typically does happen during the budget season. I think for the purpose of this, completely heard and understand like we're not in disagreement. I think it's just would have to think through in partnership with the council just to get the report back on what the concerns are. And if they're okay with it, then hopefully we could turn this around pretty quickly.

Awesome. And if not, I'm happy to talk to anyone and be like, you know. I am concerned, my biggest concern, because I know that there's no legal issue here, but I don't want it to be seen, I don't want it to be a burden. I'm not a fan of paperwork for the sake of paperwork. but I do think that this is something that could be beneficial to both your office and our office and so continuing to support your office right because like look this year we haven't had a hearing dedicated on ORC there have been topics with ORC has been brought in and maybe it's during budget season But during budget season, it's also like, you know, everybody. So, I mean, now I even want to like be like, should we have a date in here? But I, you know, I want y'all to get, I want to get y'all to agree to this. And maybe, maybe we should actually just say annual update.

I provide an annual update. I'm not sure, like report, I think, you know, if you think future thinking, Councilor, like it could get and to semantics in terms of like what people mean by that. So there could be some future expectations that folks actually present like a physical report that may not be as feasible as what is that we're detailing at the moment. So today it may sound like, hey, it was a presentation that you just presented. Five years from now, I'm just saying folks may have this expectation that they have this 20-page report and things like that. So you understand?

I don't love the word update, but I'm fine with scaling back from report. And now I am going to say that I do think it is irresponsible not to have a date attached to it. So that's the one thing I would like to add. So I'm fine with scaling down from a report. Again, annual written update. I don't like the word update, but if there's another word that we can find. And it doesn't have to be presentation, but in annual written analysis, I don't know. Update could be like, you know, an update. I don't like, update seems too informal. And that report may seem too much of a task, but we got to, Ben, Council Weber, do you have any recommendations for a word that could be better to that?

Well, I was going to say, maybe during the budget process, we'll provide... data but but you want recommendations also so i feel like that's a report but you get off easy in the You know, Labor Committee, we have the Boston and Residence Jobs Policy. We have to have two hearings a year on that. So all you have to do is produce The report, I feel like that's not so bad.

How about annual written review?

Provide an annual review.

You two are the lawyers, and so Ashley and I would defer to what is it you all consider, and then we'll definitely share it with the lawyers on our side as well, just to think through, but definitely heard. And so, Council President, just to For clarification, you do believe that a date should also be provided in this as well, or?

Yeah, I do. Just because it's just too flimsy without it, right? And like, who's keeping that to account? But I'm not opposed to it being like, you know, by June 1 so that like, you know, that budget starts earlier than that. So most of the time we'll get it by like April 1 or something or a date earlier, you know. So that could be attached to the budget. Or we could do April 1, if that's more authentic, which probably is.

Yeah, it's basically like a fiscal year. I mean, you would want going back like 12 months, right? Or 10 months.

And that review could be, I mean, it doesn't have to be for every department, but that could be your...

Would it be helpful to just put an end of fiscal year report? So that it is outlining that it has to be done by the end of the fiscal year, but it also isn't subjecting it to a date for anybody in the future?

Well, you tell me, given that we know that the end of the fiscal year is June 31st, right? You are usually like, so that would mean that would come after that.

I'm fine with whatever, but I'm just thinking of you futuristically, but I'm fine with whatever you guys.

I think what the council president's talking about is, so during the budget season, If we're talking about, hey, we need more resources in the Office of Returning Citizens, it would be great to have that report, you know, that data in April, as opposed to July, which is after the budget's been set. So it helps us again, like, make the case for your office getting more resources. So I do think April 1st or May 1st, June 1st, whatever deadline would be good. Yeah, I don't know what a review, but I guess

In terms of what you feel like you could produce without having to detract from your actual work helping returning citizens. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm here to say fine with whatever, so.

Yeah. In terms of the above bullet point for collect and maintain data on returning citizens served, do we want to include outcomes in that bullet point? Or do you have data on the outcomes, I assume? Because if it's just numbered served, would there be data? on Jobs Found or... Yeah, we collect data on Jobs Found. Housing placements. Housing placements, yeah.

Yeah. We have all that. Referrals made, yeah.

Weber, we also have comparative data, which is a thing, you know, to ask Director Montgomery's point earlier about We'll definitely review these two things. in order for like next set for this be able to turn around by next Wednesday I'm assuming you mean it by by Monday or Tuesday the latest correct?

Monday morning.

Okay. Well, we have to, is that true? Yeah, we have to file something.

Okay.

Okay. So if we do want to, I mean, again, I think from, you know, our internal processes, budget season is typically the time in which there's a lot of reporting out. And so, and to your point, Council President, if you do want to keep to around that timeframe, you know, just so it's not too flimsy, I think that would be appropriate as well.

I'll put it for one. I think we're doing codifying to make this office like in the city. And so I want us to do it the right way and to do it well. So I think April 1 works. So just collect and maintain data on returning citizens served by the office, period. New line. provide an annual written review to the mayor and the city council by April 1, detailing the office's activities, outcomes, and recommendations for policy or program changes. You can even put if any at the end so that it's not a requirement to give us recommendations if you don't want to give recommendations, although I think it's important to do so. I think there can also always be some weird back and forth on that. So I'm happy if you provide to us, you know, even just a review.

And if you want the council or anyone to be the one that recommend is recommendation policy program changes. But I do want to create the space for you all to offer that as well. So you can say if any at the end.

Okay, I don't know, I just like April 1 better than April 1 ST, but I don't know, Council President.

Yeah, I never like the STs or the TAs.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

I would also put outcomes and, comma, if any, comma, recommendations of policy or program changes. rather than if any at the end, which is what I said originally, but then it can get lost and you're like, what does the if any identify?

I would put the if any after the and, Ellie, the comma. Yeah. And if any recommendations for policy or program changes, yeah. I think, yeah, that's good. Okay, and then I guess the Chief will get back to us during Thanksgiving dinner with Your thoughts? So quicker. So let's get to the end of this so we can get that process started. Section three. I don't know, I'm going to have to, can you zoom in just slightly? Great. Executive Director, okay, this is the Office of Returning Citizens shall be headed by an Executive Director.

who shall be appointed by the mayor. The executive director shall serve as the principal advisor to the mayor and the city council on matters related to the reintegration of returning citizens. That's unchanged. Then the next bullet point, the original, oversee the daily operations of the office, including staff management, budgeting, and the implementation of reentry programs. That has been changed to just oversee the daily operations of the office. All the specifics have been removed. Any comments? Council President, no. Then the next bullet point originally was the executive director would establish partnerships with public and private organizations to enhance the services provided to returning citizens. That's been changed to take out established partnerships and just now collaborate. I think we talked about this before. Council President, any comments here? No.

and then the last bullet point was ensure compliance with all relevant laws and policies and advocate for legislative changes to approve outcomes for returning citizens. That has been just removed entirely. Council President, any thoughts there? I do think we need to lobby more for legislative changes. That seems like a good thing for people to do. I don't know if that's the executive director or IGR or whoever. But I feel like we need help. I think we heard from Councilor Flynn. What are we doing on Corrie reform? At the State House, you know, it is seemingly like a worthwhile responsibility to have. But I guess, I don't know, Chief Masso or...

or Ashley, any thoughts on?

Yeah, I'd be twofold. I think the bullet above, the collaborating with public and private organizations captures that to your point as far as either folks Advocating or lobbying, we can definitely exercise those through our partnerships. I think Ashley referenced that earlier as well, just in terms of a lot of the partners that we work closely with to be able to make sure that it happens. You know, the compliance with all relevant laws and policies. I think that's captured when this person is appointed to the position. That also covers like your responsibilities as a city employee within the city of Boston, et cetera, like you are bound by ensuring that you are following the laws and regulations and policies as well. And so I think that is also passionate and part of the reason why I was probably removed here. It's just my sense, but I'm asking anything else to add to that.

Sorry, I found the mute button, but no. Thank you.

Okay. Yeah, Council President, do you have any thoughts?

I'm okay with that.

Okay. Then there's a severability portion. I'm just going to Provisions are severable if any provision or portion thereof is held to be unconstitutional or otherwise invalid by any court of competent jurisdiction. Such unconstitutionality or individuality or invalidity shall not affect the remaining provisions which shall remain in full force and effect. I don't know, that's my, yes, your hand.

Oh, are you done with, I have two comments, one to go back to something and one general comment whenever.

Okay. Yeah, I just, I don't know, I get concerned when I assume that's the proper use of affect and effect, but... I have to take out my shrunken whites elements of style book for the difference.

It is effect, right? With the A is the action verb and take effect is like a verb in and of itself.

Any effect, okay. Yeah, seems fine. Effective date, 90 days after passage. Assume that that's part of the original draft. Seems normal. Anyway, okay, so Council President, you had something you wanted to revisit or visit?

Yeah, just want to correct that, like any changes, any like corroboration on changes, the government operations. Correct. They would need it on Friday. And I'm happy to help shepherd any conversations that need to happen. I know it's a quick turnaround. I know it's the holidays, and I apologize. and then lastly there's language that I wanted to add but I forgot to mention it at the beginning and hopefully it's fine but it's I think again just in the conversation and the work that you know I so humbly in partnership with community have been able to do to help build the office I do think that it's important in Let me talk about the purpose of the office, to add language. Where is it? Okay. um at the end and this is and I spoke to this a bit but just at the end where it says section one purpose office shall work to promote equitable access to services and opportunities in the areas of employment housing health care education and social services

I think adding a line that says, the office recognizes the value of returning citizens as both recipients of services or as clients. I think Dr. Monk, I mean, Dr. Hey, maybe that's a, maybe that's a calling. Okay. Director Montgomery in the office both as recipients of services or clients and as leaders helping to shape the vision and work of the office. That edition. I can read that again. The office recognizes the value of returning citizens both as recipients of services and as leaders helping to shape the vision and look of the office. Can you repeat the last part, Madam President, just to make sure I got it right?

Yeah, and I'm happy for any wordsmithing or any thoughts. The office recognizes the value of returning citizens as both recipients of services, as both clients, and as leaders helping to shape the vision and work of the office. Sheaf or Director. Any thoughts?

I don't have any knee-jerk reactions, just trying to get a sense of whether or not this is captured elsewhere. I do understand the gist of what it is that you're providing. Can you explain a little bit more just in terms of like what is that you're trying to capture here and like what's missing from what's already provided?

Yeah, and I can take a quick look again. I would say that the gist isn't provided. But it's sort of... say it's like stating that yes this is an office that works with returning citizens but understands the values that they bring to the table in terms of informing the work right and I think it's important for for that informant of the work to happen, right, the closest of pain, closest of power, as Congressman Presley states. And I think stating that in as neutral a way as I could think of in like two minutes Not saying directly that we encourage, although I do hope that we encourage returning citizens to be part of the office in terms of employment. This is a more general, I think, mission statement in the purpose of the ordinance. So that's what I was trying to get at.

It's something trying to say like, hey, we value you not only as beneficiaries of the service, but as people who are helping to shape the vision of this office.

Got it. Definitely heard. I think the only, my media cut reaction without thinking deeper on this, and so please just receive it as is. just the space around like the shaping the vision I think the only caution every piece I have with that is that in the event that folks are advocating for something that cannot happen like the office cannot do is where I think it gets tricky um I think You know, in a broader sense, citywide, we say that our residents shape the vision of the work that the city of Boston does right on a daily basis by You know, uplifting to things your concerns, problems, solutions, etc. So I'm just really trying to figure out. That's the only word I think I'm responding to at the moment. But again, just receive it. as I'm providing it just in real time, but I would definitely want to think deeply on that, just a little bit deeper on that. But I 100% agree and understand your sentiment, so I just want to make sure that we're in alignment with that.

And I'm happy to like, we can change, shape the vision to work at the office, but also in the same way that you soften language for it to not be partnerships for it to be collaboration. I don't think that there's anything. in what I stated that is going to be like a requirement to then therefore say, okay, they're saying that we have to do this, that we must do this, right? Because it should already be part of the ethos, but it's just writing it as part of the ethos so that people can see that it's part of the ethos. and I think especially for this population again not saying that all the time everything that is offered or said needs to be accepted or ingested but like making it clear that we see the value that you bring to helping bring ideas and you know what I really wanted to say is that we encourage leadership to reflect the population but this is like a broader way I think of that.

Isn't it Centering the Voices of Returning Citizens? I don't know. I don't think that language is any better, but just in terms of the spirit. Also, the word clients, is that redundant to recipients of services? Is there a difference between clients and recipients of services?

Yeah, I mean, Ashley, please chime in. The way I interpret it is that there's folks who may not be active clients. You know, with our caseworkers, but still be able to receive services. So like we opened up our training opportunities, et cetera, to the broader network. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be a client from the Office of Returning Citizens to be able to receive those training opportunities, those workshops, et cetera. So there is a difference there. Ashley, would you agree?

Yeah, that is correct.

Okay, sounds good.

So even if people aren't actively in our services, and we also promote it on our social media, so as long as you're a returning citizen, you can engage in programming.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, okay, I mean, it seems like, so you, Chief, I guess, would need to, are generally in favor, but need to speak to...

legal or whoever yes so um yeah so just to be clear so it's the three areas that i think we're all in agreement with everything else that was redline um it's just this one added sentence and then the other two bullet points um I'm not sure who's managing sharing this document. If you could just scroll down, please.

Yeah, Ellie, just to the bottom two bullet points, the ones we had about data and the report.

Yeah, so just be these three. Portions that will definitely run by. And to Madam President's point, make sure that we turn it around by Friday.

And in fact, it doesn't have to say, and for consistency with that section, if we wanted to say recognize the value of those who are formerly incarcerated instead of clients. Yeah, I mean, if you want it to be consistent in that section, at least I'm fine with that as well.

I'm okay with that, actually.

I'm good, yep.

Okay, well, I think to get this going, I think we've gone over everything. Council President, do you want to? Close this and send them on their way. Any other issues?

Sorry, I think that, sorry, this is me being a stickler for Section 1. The Office recognizes the value of returning citizens. I think you don't capitalize it in this instance. Or you say the office recognizes the values of those. I think we should just say, yeah, it actually doesn't matter because it's the office. It doesn't matter. Those are the values of the return of citizens, but the superiors of services, clients, and as leaders helping to shape the vision of work. That's perfect. So I've actually been doing most of this without looking because I just didn't know how to act as a shared screen, but that was perfect. Thank you, Ellie, and thank you. I think this works. I think that works well, but I'm happy to hear any feedback.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think this changes the work of the office. Yeah, but so let's just, I guess, it seems like you're, in theory, support, but, you know, need to hear from folks to get into a legal argument, but...

No, I understand the intent, so thank you for that.

Okay. Yeah, it sounds good. Certainly, I think this ends the sense about collecting the data seems totally uncontroversial. You already collected. It's basically separating that out. I think focusing on the Review, Report, Bullet Point, which I think we as a council would appreciate and would help us again make the case for This office existing and increasing in resources to be able to serve more people. But other than that, I think, so we're Council President, we're done with your comments on this. We don't have any other counselors on, I don't think.

So it looks like everyone has their marching orders. Is there any public testimony, Michelle?

We don't have anyone signed up.

Okay. So I guess that's it. I want to thank the lead sponsor, Madam President Louie Jean, and our panelists and my colleagues for attending today's hearing. I also want to thank Ellie, who has to do a lot of work in these GovOps hearings, and Chair Gabriella Coletta-Zapata's office. as well as Michelle and Ethan from Central Staff. For their assistance with today's hearing, the Chair intends to bring this docket up for a vote at the next council meeting. We do have one after that. But we want to get this passed next week, so we have until Friday to iron out these differences. With that being said, this hearing on docket number 0138 is adjourned. Gavel. So thank you very much.

Thanks, everyone.

Thank you.