City Council - Ways & Means Committee Hearing on Dockets #1671-1674

Good morning, Mr. Chairman. I am unable to hear any second now.

Thank you for watching!

I think we're ready to go.

I'm outside.

Thank you for watching! Thank you. I'm the District 6 City Councilor and the Chair of the Boston City Council on Ways and Means. Today's September 20, 2026, and the exact time is 10.04 a.m., in accordance with Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, modifying certain requirements of the Open Meeting Law.

and relieving public bodies of certain requirements, including the requirement that public bodies conduct meetings in a public place That's open and physically accessible to the public. The City Council will be conducting this hearing virtually via Zoom This hearing is being recorded. It's also being live streamed at boston.gov slash city dash council dash TV and broadcast on Xfinity Channel 8, RCN Channel 82, and Fios Channel 964. Written comments may be sent to the committee email at ccc.wm.boston.gov and will be made a part of the record and available to all counselors. Public testimony will be taken at the end of this hearing Individuals will be called on in the order in which they've signed up and we'll have two minutes to testify. If you wish to sign up for a public testimony or not done so already, please email our central staff liaison Karishma Chauhan at

k-a-r-i-s-h-m-a dot c-h o u h a n at boston.gov for the zoom link and your name will be added to the list Okay, so today's hearing is on looks like one two three four dockets. I'm going to read them out So docket number 1671 is a message in order to reduce the FY27 appropriation. Just give me one second. FY27 Appropriation for the reserve for collective bargaining by $1,951,894 to provide funding for the Boston Police Department for the fiscal year 27 increases contained within the collective bargaining agreements between the City of Boston and the Boston Police Detectives Benevolent Society. Docket number 1672.

Message and order for the Boston Police Department for fiscal year 27 in the amount of $1,951,894 to cover the fiscal year 27 cost items contained within the collective bargaining agreement between the City of Boston and the Boston Police Detectives Benevolent Society. The terms of the contract are, it says here July 1st 2025 to June 30th 2026. The major provisions of the contract include a base wage increase of 2% in July 2025. Again, I'm not sure about the year. The contract also contains an update to hazardous duty pay and amended language around sick time buyback at retirement as originally presented to you the fiscal year 27

budget requests included a reserve for collective bargaining, a separate appropriation to fund projected collective bargaining increases. A separate order has been filed to reduce the appropriation by $1 million $951,894 docket number 1673 message in order to reduce the fiscal year 27 appropriation for the reserve for collective bargaining by $1,366,093. to provide funding for the Boston Police Department for the fiscal year 27 increases contained within the collective bargaining agreements between the City of Boston and the Boston police detective benevolent society superior officers unit. and finally, docket number 1674. Message in order for the Boston Police Department for fiscal year 27 in the amount of $1 million

$366,093 to cover the fiscal year 27 cost items contained within the collective bargaining agreement between the City of Boston and the Boston Police Detectives Benevolent Society Superior Officers Unit The terms of the contract are July 1st, 2025 through June 30th, 2026. The major provisions of the Contract include a base wage increase of 2% in July 2025 The contract also contains an update to hazardous duty pay and amended language around paid details and summer vacation schedules as originally presented to you. The fiscal year 27 budget requests included a reserve for collective bargaining, of separate appropriation to fund collective bargaining increases. A separate order has been filed to reduce that appropriation by $1,396,093.

These matters were sponsored by Michelle Wu and were referred to the committee on September 16th, 2026. For my colleagues you may recall we passed similar dockets In May of this year, for fiscal year 2026. These dockets I believe would just extend those appropriations for fiscal Year 2027 but we're going to hear from Jim Williamson. Today, I'm joined by my colleagues in order of arrival Flynn, and then Councilor Murphy. I'm just going to go to the panelists and then we'll go for questions. We've been joined today by budget director Jim Williamson. So with that, I guess if Jim is here, which I see. Do you want to just explain what's going on and then You know, if my colleagues have any questions.

I see Councilor Flynn you got your hand up.

Yeah one quick question Mr. Chair. Were the representatives from their respective unions leadership planning to attend?

They are not because we, this is I believe and Mr. Williamson, Budget Director Williamson's going to explain We had a hearing in May on the contract, on a new contract And I'm happy to go over The provisions, the new provisions in the contract that we covered in May and that we voted on in May. So this is really I believe We're just going into the next fiscal year to cover the wage increases that were covered by that contract. So I think we're only expecting budget director Williamson today because if there's other questions, you can relay them through the chair and we can get other things answered, but I think just to explain what is happening. We had Jim Williamson here for questions about the contract itself. I think we covered all that back in May.

Yeah, I remember being on that hearing. I don't miss any of these hearings, but I want to do my due diligence before I do vote.

Okay, yeah thank you. Yeah no it's a bit unusual and so I've gone over the committee report Let's see what I've got right here. Just to refresh folks' memories, there was a new contract reached to sort of extend certain benefits that were in the patrol officer's contract So the Detectives' Benevolent Society and the Detective's Benevolence Society Superior Officers. I'll just run through the bullet points.

Well, let me just ask were they invited?

Uh, they were not invited. We had a discussion about what this hearing should be and because we have had so no I did not invite them

I do think an invitation should be extended whether at least give them the opportunity to Be invited to be included because there might be some issues that they highlight that might help us do our job better. Certainly the city of Boston is going to present Their recommendations, but I do like to get both sides of the story. I really wish the union leadership were invited and if they declined then they decline. But I do think we We owe it to them, because of their professionalism and the work they do, to at least invite them to the meeting.

Okay, thank you very much. Let's just we'll let's proceed with budget director Williamson.

That's an important matter. You're just glossing over it. I do think it's an issue that we can at least acknowledge that the unions should be part of the discussion. That's what I believe in.

Yeah, I hear you. Let's just let's let's hear Mr. Director.

Can I ask a quick question? Just and I'm looking forward to hearing from Jim, but is it both? I'm reading the invitation here. Is it both the benevolent detectives and the superior offices or just the benevolant detectives?

It's, this I... Sorry. Let me just...

Because then it says at the end that it's also... No, no.

Well, it's the Benevolent Detectives and then the Benevalent Detective Superior Officers. So it's not all the superior officers. It's both. Yes.

Right, so because there's three police unions. So this covers both not BPPA but the other two? Correct Okay just checking

So again, let's circle back to Councillor Flynn's concerns before we close out the hearing. But so I'm going to pass this on. Up again? Councilor Murphy, you're just still up.

No, I'm just taking it down now.

Okay. Director Williamson, do you want to explain what's going on here?

Sure, so thank you Chair Weber and Councilors Murphy and Flynn. My name is Jim Williamson. I'm the budget director here at the City of Boston, and I appreciate this opportunity to provide more information about these supplemental budgets and their impact on the city's budget I'm here to discuss the four appropriation orders before you, the impact of the FY27 annual operating budget and to formally request favorable consideration or recommendation for VEX Council meeting. As Councilor Weber said, if there's additional sort of union contract language specific questions and or departmental operation questions we're happy to reach out and get those responded to. So, This, I think there was some discussion about the term of the contract.

The contract actually this contract is an expired version of a contract and it's a simple transaction so in May City Council passed and approved A supplemental budget for that one-year contract that expired last June. In order to keep it consistent with the patrol officer's contract, and then so this transaction is really just to move the budgetary dollars from the 27 reserve into the 27 budget for the police department. It's because it happened post the recommended budget in April, and that's why we're transacting at this point. But then the contract is All of these have been implemented. The detectives have already received their wage changes, and actually the term of the contract is expired.

Okay, and that explains I just before I go to Councilor Flynn. That explains why it's the same. Is it the same number as identical? Identical amounts as the ones are improved in May. Okay. And I am blanking on those. I believe when you have a collective bargaining agreement and it expires, you don't like just not having an agreement. You maintain the existing agreement going forward rather than having everyone just be up in the air. So that's what's going on here, the contract is expired.

Expired but they still have those wage provisions are approved and the budget needs to be adjusted to accommodate for that increased cost.

Okay. I'm going to go to my colleagues and then if I have questions at the end, I guess Councilor Flynn Do you have any questions for Budget Director Williamson? I understand your concern, and we'll talk about that on the record before we close the hearing. But do you have questions for the director?

Thank you, Mr. Chair and thank you Jim. Any specific language as it relates to the ongoing Debate or challenge as it relates to the number of police officers we have in the city and The frequency of 16-hour work days, overstaffed offices, dangerously understaffed Overworked, limited number of police officers. Does the language address any of that?

I would defer to Labor Relations, but I do not believe the contract speaks to these specific number of officers. It just acknowledges, I think in a summary it acknowledges how many officers were in that role. So I think for the Detectives is 278 members. And while the superior detectives, it's 127 members.

So I heard from detectives on the street and They are telling me they have, they don't have enough detectives to do the investigative work and their shots staffed. How are we addressing that Jim?

Gary, and I do remember sort of police representatives talking about that dynamic. You don't come from the outside and become a detective, it's a promotional opportunity within the department. They try to work collaboratively with each other to make sure that they're not drawing too many from the regular patrol staff or our superior officer staff. They're involved in the district patrol force. So I think there's an ongoing conversation and working relationship on that part.

Well, that's why I believe it's important to have representatives from the police here so they can answer those questions. Jim, how many police officers do we have in the city?

You know, it's over 2,000 but I'd have to get you a specific number. We do get reports from the police department. I haven't looked at it recently.

What's the most updated number?

I'd have to get you that, Councillor. I think we use all... We identify them as sworn, so it includes the four police unions. Yeah, right.

Yeah. Sworn officers which would be the police officers that are that are basically on the street and the command staff, I guess. But can we get that number before we vote on this?

Sure, absolutely.

What are we doing, Jim, on health and wellness of police officers and their families knowing that police officers are consistently working 16 hours a day? How are we supporting them With the critical time off, but how are we supporting them with work-life balance even as we cut the health and wellness programs for the police department?

Well, I think the budget does include resources for health and wellness programs at the police department. There's been investments in the last and their occupational health resources to help facilitate officers who are medically incapacitated returned back to the workforce. So I think they've been very successful on that.

But Jim, I do believe it... That has been cut though hasn't it? The health and wellness aspect of the police

Not that I'm aware of, but I can certainly follow up on that.

I believe for the police and fire, the health and wellness type programs have been cut. So what are we doing to ensure that police officers that are working 16 hours a day consistently have the right time off and sleep so they can be effective on their job?

I know just from hearing testimony in the past, there are strict rules around the number of hours that officers are eligible to work and they do. If you track that, stay on top of that.

But that's not what offices are telling me. Offices are telling they're consistently working 16-hour days, and then they're going home They're trying to spend a little bit of time with their family, then they're back to work again. They're telling me it's impacting the health and wellness of offices and also work-life balance. Those are issues I just can't... Ignor, they're important to me.

Yeah, Councillor Flynn. Sorry just I was going to give you six minutes. You got another minute left and then we'll also be joined by Councillor Fitzgerald

Yeah, but Mr. Chair these are issues that we need to have a serious discussion about And we're not doing that. We're not having a conversation about work-life balance for police officers, how we're supporting police officers. Just because we ignore a subject doesn't mean the subject goes away So my responsibility is to address these issues. That's what people put me in office for, to ask the tough questions and make changes. So I'm still not confident From this conversation that we have a plan to address health and wellness programs, that we I think it's unfair to police officers that we're putting them in this particular situation, working 16 hours a day.

And then knowing that when an issue does come up, they're not going to be supported at Boston City Hall. We all know that. The city councilors don't, for the most part, don't respect the work that police officers do. So I do think we need to have a serious conversation about it I respect the work Jim is doing, but I wish I could get answers to this. Thank you Mr. Chair.

Okay thank you Councillor Flynn. Just maybe to clarify A little bit about today's hearing. Director Williamson, can you just explain? So we voted in May. to approve 2% increases that were taking money out of the reserve. Now we're voting again, is this... Is this to maintain that 2% increase we voted back in May? Can you explain the math?

Councilor, I think what you said before is even though the contract expired, the existing terms of the contract continue and so the wage benefits that were approved by Council in May are in place in the offices. This is just to make sure that the police department's FY27 budget has sufficient resources to cover those.

Yeah, I understand that. But that doesn't mean you don't have a serious conversation Mr. Chair about health and wellness of police officers. You still address the issue even though we had a conversation in May It's even more important now to have that conversation, to learn about what took place from May to the present of how we're supporting police officers because I don't agree with that. You want to ask those tough questions, Mr. Chu?

Okay, well we're having a conversation about staffing at the police department and issues of how our police officers are doing their health and wellness. I don't think that's the subject of today's meeting. But Mr.

Chair, it's not going to happen. It's not going to get scheduled. That's why I'm asking these questions because our colleagues don't want to have a serious conversation about what's happening in the police department, so I have to take the opportunity to ask questions and get it on the record that I'm not happy with the way we're treating police officers. We're treating them with disrespect, Mr. Chair, and people remain silent.

Okay. Noted, Councilor Flynn. Councilor Murphy, I'm going to give you six minutes.

Thank you. First just want to thank all of our first responders, our police officers We have been patting ourselves on the back for having such a safe and crowded fun summer, but it does not go unnoticed by me that it was because our first responders stepped up We're at all of the events across the city and working a lot over time to make sure that We implemented the plans that they were expected to follow through on. So, thank you to that also want to ask. Thank you for being here Jim but when we're talking about a contract is labor relations on this hearing and what they invited

I believe that's a question for me.

Whoever can answer that.

Because we're covering the same subject matter that we covered in May,

I do feel though things come up because i have some specific questions that may be new information from the last time and if we're going to vote to keep this contract going, because we could vote no and ask for more if needed. So I believe that's necessary. And I do want to thank maybe Jeannie Zong but I do know that President Griffin from the Detectives Union is on. He's not a panelist now, but he did hop on to listen. He was not aware of this meeting so thank you for being here. Currently we're budgeted for 283 detectives and I believe we only have 238 so we're short about 45 detectives right now. And detectives, Jim, I'm not sure if you know this but or if you can help answer this are civil service patrol offices and they can supplement the police force

Thanks for watching!

and that we also had been told, and the detectives have been told that we were going to have a class of 25 going in the academy this month. And this month is almost over. Do we know when that class of new detectives will be trained? because it seems like we've delayed it and we know we're already short 45 detectives.

I'd have to get back to you, Councilor, on the When they sort of rate and place detectives into We follow in sort of budget, recruit classes for our patrol officers and things but detectives I'd have to find out from the

Police Department. Are you told when classes are budgeted but then canceled, do you know? Or if you're also told when a certain number are budgetted but we're under that, how do you get notified of that?

It goes through the hiring process where they're saying they want to promote a certain amount of detectives. or rate them as detectives. There is a process that I think you're rated and then six months, then you're officially like a detective after the training period.

And I'm making an assumption. I wish someone was here who could answer me properly, but I want to put this question on the record. Are we purposely not training detectives because we're low on patrol officers? And if patrol offices are promoted, which they should be when they study and deserve these promotions but they're choosing not to promote them because it would take them away from The slots and the different departments across the city where we're already understaffed by police officers, because that would be concerning to me if we're not allowing offices who have studied and worked hard to get promoted because we can't afford to lose them as Officers, Patrolmen. So we're going to not allow them to be detectives in that case do you know do we prorate their raises if we know that they were not Not by their choice, but we just couldn't afford to.

I'm not sure, Councilor. I don't think so.

It's just confusing, right? To know what can the patrol officers do and if we're choosing not to promote them then that would be a concern. Ben are you expecting to vote on this Wednesday?

Uh, I... would like to uh you know if i guess if if you have questions get some answers before then are you confident you could get i can certainly reach out to we can try to get answers On these on Wednesday, and if it looks like. It would just take an extra week to get the answers I can we can vote on it.

I think it's up to you as the chair but would you allow The President of the Union to answer any questions. I know he's on this here right now, he's listening.

I suppose, yeah. I think that's fine. Why don't we get through this with Mr. Williamson and we can bring on You know, there's public testimony or we can bring, you know.

Unfortunately that's what happened a couple of weeks ago also Councilor Flynn remember when it was Larry spoke as public testimony, not as a panelist because he wasn't also invited to be part of the conversation. Just think it would make life easier for everyone and show the respect to our union presidents who represent our city workers. Thank you. I have no other questions, but I hope we can get these questions answered and we can respect the union leaders who show up every day for our city employees. Thank you Okay

Yes, Councilor Fitzgerald. Six minutes. Yeah, I'll fill out just at the top. We had a hearing in May on this contract contracts expired but we're trying to provide the same wage increase So there's a docket to pull money from the reserves for the detectives and the detective superior officers. And that's why we're sort of Having a more truncated process, or at least that was the idea. And maybe we're going to hear from some union representation afterwards. So six minutes.

Thank you, sir. First I just want to hit everyone with some numbers. Ed, I want you to make sure you got your pen out. As of August 26th 2026, thank you, I see it. We have for patrolmen we have 1,423 patrolmen as of the end of August All right, we have 2050 all sworn including command staff. So if you include the command staff that number jumps from 1423 to 2050. And then we have 241 detectives. There is no minimum number for detectives, but we are super short on detectives here. I know we don't have a minimum, And I think, Ed and Erin, this relates to when you guys... When we talk to the detective they're saying, hey, we're stretched thin.

241 but not nearly enough so just wanted to get those numbers out there as of the end of August so we at least can Work Off Something, and that is from HR. We got those for BPD. Jim, thank you very much for being here, man. I just really have a... A question, I know Ben just sort of gave me the rundown. The chair just gave me a rundown but so it expired we continue off the former contract It is this 2% raise. It's continuing. So what we're voting on now, just make sure that they are good up until when? Up until we have a new contract or up until the next fiscal year? Is this just for the entire year?

This is to basically make, to increase the police department's FY27 budget to make sure it has the resources in it for that contract.

And during that time, we are planning to... We'll obviously be negotiating for the next contract to take effect. Do we have a timeline of if that will end? Will that be resolved prior to FY27 to...

I'm not sure on the timing of the negotiations.

Okay, but so we're basically doing this to make sure there's money for July 1st up until June 30th, 2027. Exactly. I don't have any further questions on what was asked. Thank you for helping me understand the timeline. and what we got here. And I actually would love to hear from, if there is union leadership here on the call for testimony, I think it would just be great to get their take, their side of things. Thank you all for allowing for that. And I look forward to hearing from them. Thank you, Chair.

Yeah, thank you, Councilor Fitzgerald. So I guess Director Williamson, do you know in the new contractor there Is there any changes for health care? I know we hear how healthcare costs are increasing.

I'm not seeing anything. noted on the summaries, Councilor. Okay. But I went to further.

Okay and then in terms of the timing can you just explain like Right, right. Like...

Unlike sort of like the original one, that kicks off the ability to actually execute and give the wage increase. The wage increases are already happening. This is really just a correction of the FY27 budget to make sure that it's the right value to cover these costs.

Okay. And yeah, just following up on Councilor Fitzgerald's point. I know in May we talked about, just for my colleagues, We heard that the department is short-staffed approximately 45 detectives back then, so it sounds similar numbers. Okay. I'm fine if there is union representation. We can sort of set up a second panel here, again, Some questions, and I don't know if union representation wants to subject themselves to that. But does anyone else have any questions for Director Williamson? Yeah, I guess we'll go in order. Flynn.

Mr. Chair, I said at the beginning I would like to hear directly from the police officers and the union leadership respect them I don't have any questions. I'd rather use my time to hear from the police officers and the union members.

Okay. Councilor Flynn or Councilor Fitzgerald?

Same, I'm looking forward to the next panel thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Thank You Director Williamson Karishma? I don't know. Can you... I've promoted Mr. Griffin as a panelist, so you can call on him. Okay. Yeah. Yes, Bob Griffin, you're here. I guess if you have anything you want to say, a couple minutes and then we'll... We have three counselors here if they have questions for you. We'll go from there. So I guess the floor is yours.

Well, thank you to Councillor Murphy for inviting me here. I appreciate it. I got in late to the conversation here A couple of things, I think we are about 238 to 241 detectives right now. We're budgeted for 283. They're talking about putting a class of detectives in. I forget what Mr. Williams was saying, he was saying maybe about six months that it's only a month to train detectives they get out and then they can be rated detective the six months is for superior detectives so if they The sergeant gets put into a unit. They have to stay in that, you know for six months and then the investigative unit They'll put them into the unit for six months, then they'll rate them detective. Sergeant Detective, Lieutenant Detective, Captain Detective, things of that nature. So we're looking to get, you know, even with the class of 25 that possibly will be going in October that we were told September then moved to October.

Now, so if it goes in October, now you're talking late November that we're going to get some relief. And I just want to say, and Councilor Murphy kind of touched on this, 238 to 241, right? And the patrolmen are down a little bit. We did a FOIA request through Human Resources. Where about at were the same The patrolmen were at where they were about five years ago, still understaffed definitely. But we are 50 almost coming up on 50 below where we were at five or six years ago. The caseloads are getting higher because of the... Think about what has changed in the last, with AI and with the camera stuff that our members have to go into. All of this, all this footage, all these data and cell phones. There's so many things now with technology that we're doing differently. So the case loads are larger, the work is harder now, and we have less detectors.

And it goes right into the health and wellness of our members, right? The caseload is crazy. But we can also... If we have like the patrolmen, we supplement the patrol force. So if they're short, we get ordered into uniform. The patrolmen, they don't supplement our caseloads. We do our own case loads because we're trained and we're rated detectives. So that right there... I would say that the department needs to put more detectives on, get us back up to 278-283. But in terms of health and wellness, I noticed you guys were all at the... And it was great. We had the UDS, the United Diagnostic Services in last year. You guys were out in West Roxbury for the firefighters last week I believe?

Yes, I was out there.

And I congratulate you for that and I congratulate them for getting it done. That's funded by the city through a grant. When we do that, we have them in for our members. We have to fundraise for our health screening, so we raise money and we spend our own money as a union to do that for our members. And we've done about 300 members in the last three or four years. and we found every time you do them you'll talk to Ed Kelly I saw was there at the IFF, Sam Dillon. Every time you 100 members you get about three people that you save in their lives so we're saving lives when we do this but Unfortunately, we have to fundraise them and the credit union down at the First Street Bonus Credit Union has been great to us. So we appreciate what they do with us but it's something that we think the city should there should be a budget in the city um in the budget for some fun for some funds for us to have uh the health screenings done as well and rather than have us make go out and raise our own funds for it but because it is it's life-saving uh screenings

I understand that just because you missed the beginning. So what we're talking about today is the 2% wage increases that were approved In May, those dockets are before us. And I'm assuming that the union pending the renegotiation or negotiation of the new contract would support getting the money out of the collective bargaining reserve to fund 2% wage increases for your members. That's what we're here to talk about. I know my colleagues would like to highlight some other issues and there are other issues with uh with your members and we certainly as the council we should be working on these are all worthwhile things to talk about thank you for highlighting those uh but in and i'll leave it to my colleagues for questions just just to give you the level set here we're talking about docket

Dockets that would take money out of the collective bargaining reserves to fund the wages for the Detectives Benevolent Society and the detective benevolent Society for Superior Officers, so that we had approved last year. But thank you very much. I'm just going to throw it to my colleagues. How about we'll give you Let's see, four minutes for questions.

Yeah, Mr. Chair, six minutes. Six minutes is the union president.

Yes, I hear you. Well, it's a surprise panel. We're doing four minutes. If you have follow-up questions, we'll come back.

Okay, well I want to say thank you to Bob and his professionalism and his advocacy for his members. Health and wellness is an issue we've talked about and worked on For many years, I was listening to your conversation and it struck me. that basically the union and members are almost paying for their own aspects, some parts of their health and wellness. Is that accurate to say Bobby?

That's accurate, Councilor Flynn. Thank you. So we got some fundraising, doing golf tournaments and stuff like that. But I think our members paid $60,000 for their own last year scans and we had them out to the Union Hall. We brought the same truck that you probably saw last week with the fire, we brought them to our union hall and we paid for you know whatever we couldn't whatever the we had let's say fifty thousand it cost a hundred thousand dollars we paid the um the extra so about sixty thousand dollars last year out of our funds

Thank you for that answer. Respect the answer. As a city, we're better than that. Having police officers and their families in the union to try to raise money for their health and wellness, for their medical needs. We're asking them because it's such a critical issue that is so important when asking them to pay for it on your own. The city's not going to pay for all of it. You know, you're on the hook for some of that. I don't support that. and Homs Way for an extended period of time, eight hours a day, 16 hours a days. And oh by the way you guys have to pay some of your health and wellness. I don't support that. That's not the Boston I'm from.

I'm pretty angry about that right now, and I know this city council doesn't support the rank-and-file police officers. Why do you say that, Ed? Well, listen to what we just heard. That police officers are paying for their own medical care. That's pretty outrageous. That's outrageous. Thankfully, they are paying it. The men and women and their families in the union, they're paying it but that's the job of a city That's the job of the city government, in my opinion. I'm embarrassed. I am really embarrassed as a longtime Boston resident knowing that We're not providing police officers and their families with the critical health and wellness, various screenings. And I just can't sit here and pretend that's not a problem.

Can I just say one thing, sorry? Yeah. I may have misspoke about the money. The $50,000 that was through fundraising, the other $60,000 was from our... and many more.

I know that was an issue myself and John and Erin we worked on during the budget, on health and wellness for police. I think we have to have a serious conversation going in the future about whether or not we are going to treat police officers with respect or not. And if we are gonna treat them with respect, we have to address health and wellness and screening related issues Here's a police officer, Bobby Griffin that's doing everything he can for his members and The City of Boston is not stepping up to support the members. I'm pretty outraged, I'm upset about that but I'll leave it to the next council colleague because I'm out of time, I believe.

Okay yeah thank you Councillor Flynn. Murphy.

Yes, you're here okay and thank you Bobby for hopping on on such short notice and I think it's always important we don't have enough hearings I believe and oftentimes when File or sponsor hearings, the administration doesn't show up to answer questions. So I'm happy that we can get some clarifying answers to what I believe is important and it does tie to the budget and it ties to what we're going to advocate to make sure we see in our budget. Another thing that is concerning to me is when we pit our city departments against each other, especially our first responders. I do want to take a moment to just Acknowledge that I think it's always been true and you would know being out there on the streets Bobby but our EMS recently in the news we're hearing a lot of EMS being attacked and not treated properly, and maybe not having all the supports they need.

So I just want to make sure that EMS knows advocating for their health and wellness and the supports and when the one I believe 0.3 million dollar grant was not renewed during the budget season Apportion and thank you to Dana Faber. And thank you for outside sources, but only 100000 was reinstated and 100% supported and advocate that our firefighters have cancer screening, of course. But when you hear that our Boston police and other first responders are then paying for their own, that part of the story was left off so I think now that i have that information, I'll make sure we're advocating to make sure. Right? I would say knowledge is power so now we can advocate to make Sure that all of our first responders have the necessary screenings. One of the benefits I lost when I switched from BPS to City Hall.

I had dental and eye care, right? That was a wonderful benefit and that helped me and my family you know in wonderful ways so each union fights and advocates for what their members need but when you're digging into your own pockets and asking You know, credit unions and neighbors to sponsor holes at a golf tournament. And that's not just going for bereavement or making sure someone's wife maybe your husband after death gets you know some meals or supports it's going to direct related health issues that we get on the job right so it's important that we continue to advocate for that. So That's something I'll work with you and the other union leaders to make sure we have those numbers correct and support your members. So thank you for being here. And Council Weber, I don't have any other questions.

Just want to make sure that anytime we approve a new budget for the new cycle that we get to ask questions like how many members are we down? What do we need to do when is the next class? So, I know now that we have to make sure and kind of push that this next class goes through. It was supposed to be this month get a date, make sure we can hold them to that new date in October and that we promote the members, right? But the promotion becomes more pay and it's an expensive city to live in. Those members deserve that pay so looking forward to advocating for that. Thank you.

Okay thank you very much. Councilor Fitzgerald I think you're still on here Yep.

Thank you, Bobby. Thank you for being here. So just doing some math from what you said, about $50,000 in your fundraise, $60,000 comes out of your own coffers. So for mental health and overall physical well-being, For your members, like is 110,000 roughly would that be? Like if we were to budget for it, is that what we would sort of budget? I don't know, maybe if you have a bigger number. Or was that just like, that's the best, raising 50 and giving 60? It was sort of like you're just trying to band-aid as you go. And it's probably a larger number if you have the budget, I would assume.

Thank you, Councilor Fitzgerald. No, if we could have a grant for $100,000 to $120,000 a year towards the health screening that would be amazing. That would be perfect. That will help our members tremendously.

Right, okay. Yeah, it seems like a nominal fee over a $4.9 billion budget to make sure that we're taking care of those that are taking care us so that's something that we should definitely look at At least with my fellow councilors here in the next budget session to see if we can get that in there. Other than that, I don't think I have a lot of time. I turn my time over to you Bobby. If there's anything else that you'd like to pontificate upon Before stepping down, I'll give you the rest of my time. Please and thank you.

Just real quick, and this is a stat I bring up, there's all kinds of different stats about first responders, and I thank Councilor Murphy for mentioning EMS because they deal with some of the same stuff that we deal with But in some of the, this guy Dr. Hamrock when we started the SCAM program about five maybe eight years ago actually he had mentioned one of them one of the stats that just shoots out at you and I'll just give you this quick stat is For first responders, because of the stress levels. I mean there's different stress levels in different jobs but Because of the adrenaline rushes between going to college you could have three days You do nothing at EMS police fire and then all of a sudden boom you get three calls your heart rate is going up And down one of these calls So for us, and it's similar with EMS and fire, I'm not sure the exact, but police officers you have your first heart attack at 48 years old. Typically, for a member of the general public, your first heart attack is at 68 years old. That's one of the reasons why these scans are so necessary because it looks into your 11-part ultrasound scan

and then a full body scan. So it tells you what, you know, what you might have going on in it. Like I said, it saves lives. So I appreciate you talking about it. I know you guys all, you

Okay, yeah thank you very much. I guess just a Detective Griffin my question is there Is there any more gaps between the contracts, between the patrol officers and the detectives? I know some of the contract we Approved in May, closed a lot. But is there anything else that's sort of hanging out there that you're trying to address in these negotiations?

Uh, I mean there's always gaps so it's you know i'm not sure what the difference is between a detective and patrolman at two different jobs we are civil service patrolmen but I mean it's there was a certain percentage at one point that percentage has shrunk a little bit let's say from seven to five percent so if we get back up to seven percent of what it was back you know 10, 15 years ago that would be great. In terms of, we're at the same scales right now for um not skills but we're the same you know we signed this contract similar time so both our contracts expired this past uh July 1st. So we're looking to negotiate right now with the city

And then just, I get, maybe you already talked about this but a shortage of detectives specifically like what does that mean for the city?

It means some of these specialized units aren't getting filled. A lot of the district units aren' t getting filled, meaning that's more caseload for all our members, right? So now you've got to go pull more video, Thank you for joining us. With technology, you're looking for more stuff. There's more ways to track people, there's more way to solve crimes and stuff like that but you have to put the time in obviously so yeah it's It's taxing on, it means you can't go home as often. You're working more and working more overtime to solve these cases. And then you're also getting ordered into different If you're in a district, if someone doesn't show up for the last half or overnight shift or first half or to midnight and you're getting ordered into uniform, you have to put your caseload aside for those eight hours.

Okay, well I appreciate it. Thanks for being available advocating for your members and Thanks for everything you do for the city. Karishma, is there anyone else for public testimony?

No, Mr. Chair.

Okay, so let's you know we're gonna try to get answers to my fellow counselors questions and hopefully get some of those answers and bring this up. for a vote on Wednesday. If it turns out that we need some more time to get the answers, I'm fine to wait. Mr.

Chair, can I jump in for a quick second? Sure, Councillor Flynn. Thank you. During the budget process, the city council had the opportunity to offer amendments. We got that power granted to us several years ago. I offered an amendment to fund health and wellness programs for the Boston Police Department. I believe I put in a request of $500,000. That was voted down by city council colleagues I want to get that on the record. I was able to get some funding in for EMS, they supported that. They voted it down for Boston Fire also but Our colleagues, I just wanted to get it on the record. Our colleagues voted down the amendments to add more money into health and wellness for Boston Police Department.

The responsibility and blame also Lies on the City Council, but failing to have the courage to stand up for what is right. So we can say we're going to advocate for it next year, which we will. But we had the ability to do it last year and we decided not to do and we did not provide the critical leadership that was needed at that time. So, we hurt a lot of Boston police officers and their families It's time for the city council to show a little bit of a backbone and stand up for what is right. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Okay, thank you. I just as the chair of the Ways and Means Committee, we work together on amendments and this is about You've got to build consensus with your colleagues and find, of course the amendments. It's a two-sided coin. You gotta find money to take them places that they can sit for long.

We should have been in the regular budget.

And we don't have to get... No, Mr. Chair.

I recommended the money be taken out of office and neighborhood services. I clearly remember that.

Yes, okay. Yeah, that's how that works. Now you've made your comments. Thank you very much.

No, no, you're passing the buck, Mr. Chair.

Okay, well... I would say if you want that amendment passed, please work with your colleagues and build consensus so we can get that amendment in. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you to my colleagues for being here, thank you to the budget director and Detective Griffin for making the time and providing us with your thoughtful answers. With that said... This hearing on docket numbers 1671 to 1674 is now adjourned. Thank you very much.